Men Aren’t Hard Wired To Find Breasts Attractive
Men aren’t hard wired to find breasts attractive?
No.
And how do we know this?
The same way we discover that many things aren’t biologically-based. By learning about other cultures. And the breast fetish does not exist in them all.
Men and women both resist the claim until they’re reminded of tribal societies. We’ve all seen pictures from National Geographic. And we all know that among tribal people women’s breasts are no big deal.
By the mid-1980s, topless beaches and overexposure to nudity in advertising had a similar effect in Europe. Topless women were plastered all over billboards, magazine and television advertisements because both men and women looked. But by the mid-eighties, no one paid much attention anymore. It was all so blasé. European men studying in the U.S. asked why American men were so obsessed with nudity. What’s the big deal, they wondered.
Even men who are overexposed to porn can lose interest, according to Pamela Paul, who has studied porn’s effect on male sexual arousal. As one man put it, “At first, I was happy just to see a naked woman. But as time has gone on I’ve grown more accustomed to such things.” Now he seeks more extreme stuff.
Meanwhile, studies show that even women learn the breast fetish, with images of a nude woman creating greater blood flow to the vaginal area than images of a nude man. More on that later.
How odd. Breasts turn on Western women, but not tribal men? And hetero women get more aroused by a nude woman than by a nude man?
Fetishes are created by selectively hiding and revealing, making that which is hidden enticing. Both men and women become intrigued. (Women do experience all this a bit differently from men, which I’ll discuss later.)
Meanwhile, a student of mine lived in Iran after the Islamic revolution when women strictly covered themselves except for the face. She told me that every now and again she would pull her veil back a little and watch the men go wild over her “hair cleavage.”
In America around the turn of the last century even seeing an ankle was sexy because they were always covered. In some old family photos one of my grandmothers is pulling her skirt up above her ankle to look scandalously sexy. I couldn’t even comprehend what she was doing until someone explained.
Covering is captivating. If you see the same thing all the time, it’s no big deal.
We always hear that men are visual. This isn’t based in biology. Men learn to become visual, while hetero women are left with nothing acceptable to look at. Culturally, we don’t sexualize the male body.
The fetish feels real enough, but then, much of what is learned feels biological.
As we shall see, all this can heighten bedroom excitement. Or it can have the opposite effect. More later…
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Posted on November 4, 2010, in body image, feminism, gender, men, objectification, pornography, sex, sexism, women and tagged body image, breast fetish, breasts, culture, feminism, gender, male sexual arousal, men, men are visual, men's health, objectification, overexposure to porn, pornography, pornography effect on male arousal, sex, sex research, sexism, sexual objectification, sexuality, tribal societies, women. Bookmark the permalink. 98 Comments.
I am currently learning about the similarities and differences in gender roles. This article was very interesting to me and reminded me of the argument about how the drinking ago should be lowered to 18 or 16. Just like how because nudity is not as uncommon in other countries it is not as big of a deal, because alcohol is allowed at a young age it is less of an issue. It is interesting how these issues aren’t made issues anymore because they are made less of a big deal.
After reading this blog it does make me think a little more about perception. Things that we see here in the U.S. as socially awkward or demoralizing such as a women’s breasts exposed , in other parts of the world it’s seen as nothing but normal. Why is it that a majority of women are more enamored with the physical appearance of a women naked and more disgusted by men. In fact last week a conversation with my friends came to the topic of strip clubs and it was funny because I was the only one who had never wanted to go to one. As many of my girl friends who had gone to women’s strips clubs had never thought to go to male strip clubs because they thought of it as trashy and gross? Is anyone else confused?
All this time I believed men WERE hardwired, that it was biological chemicals and sparks going on at the site of nudity; however, I learned that this is no more natural than wearing clothes. Truth is the more a body part is hidden the more likely it to become deviant if it ever becomes revealed. This makes me wonder about the benefits of a clothing-optional and even reduced drinking age society. Overexposure to nudity could subdue sexual arousal due to overexposure. Being flattered by sexual activity will make it no more sexual than it ever was. It might even reduce the number of pornography viewers and have many other potential advantages.
Well, clothing-optional beaches (etc) will probably only have that effect if people use them extensively.
Female breasts are viewed as sexual or functional depending on the culture. I believe that the media plays an important role in the way that female breasts are perceived in the United States. Our constant flood of media visualizations compounds the idea that female bodies are sexual objects. Marketing schemes used in television advertisements and magazines reinforce this objectification. Patriarchal religious stories reveal females as dangerous and enticing to males which may encourage the objectification of women by making women’s bodies seem a little “dirty” or “naughty”. It is possible that the media in conjunction with the dominant majority’s religious beliefs have “created” a culture where women are perceived as objects and breasts are naughty things.
S. Walker, 11.14.10
Great points, all.
You need to remember that i can see you as someone i want to fuck and someone i want to get to know as a person in the same moment I you might catch a man focused more on one concept than the other but to say that men liking breasts or being enticed by the female figure proves that they only see women as a sex object is hilariously over simplified…the only thing more hilarious is the way a woman walking down the street is allowed to call a guy she finds unattractive any name she wants for catching his eyes wander…she then sees a guy she likes hopes she catches him looking. or the woman who gets mad about a glance and then with her girlfriends talks about the hulks.
it is human nature to like each others bodies….as the author points out specific body part attraction isnt hardwired but we damn well want to look at each other either way.
“to say that men liking breasts or being enticed by the female figure proves that they only see women as a sex object is hilariously over simplified…”
You’re reading something into the post that isn’t there.
“it is human nature to like each others bodies….”
Women don’t actually enjoy looking at men’s bodies all that much. I wish the male body were more celebrated than it is.
See:
Anything Good About Being A Sex Object?
http://broadblogs.com/2011/05/23/anything-good-about-being-a-sex-object/
Does Sexual Objectification Lead to Bad Sex?
http://broadblogs.com/2011/07/27/does-sexual-objectification-lead-to-bad-sex/
Men, Women React to Male/Female Nudity
http://broadblogs.com/2011/10/12/gendered-reactions-to-male-and-female-nudity/
Why Aren’t Male Strippers Sexy?
http://broadblogs.com/2012/07/09/why-arent-male-strippers-sexy/
Gays Find Strippers Sexy; Women Don’t?
http://broadblogs.com/2012/07/16/gays-find-strippers-sexy-women-dont/
Magic Mike Turns Tables on Objectification, Desire
http://broadblogs.com/2012/07/18/magic-mike-turns-tables-on-objectification-desire/
I get frustrated on this topic because I breastfeed , have been for 15 months. sometimes In public my son gets hungry or wants comfort, i get nervous, ” oh crap wat should i do , or where should i go?” the woman in my family say ” who gives a crap about what people think, go for it”, the men say “wtf, na go somewhere else, like the bathroom or something, no one wants to see that!”. at this point my son n i are growing frantick , I say ” wtf, screw that. im not feeding my child in the bathroom or in a baking car, im busting out a tit weather u people agree with it or not”. The sole purpose of a breast is to provide food for our babies/children, it shouldnt be known or used for sexual purposes. It nice to know that people find them specially attractive but some ppl get offended and uncomfortable, but why cant people see past the ways of America? Sexualizing the breast can ruin our enjoyment to bond and feed our babies.
Personally as a hetero male, I don’t find breastfeeding the least bit sexually arousing. My wife breastfed our son just past 2 years, I think and it was never a big deal. Boobs are hot, no doubt, but obviously that’s 100% a product of social environment. It’s conditioned response, all be it a very strong one. Plus “tribal breasts” are kinda… you know.
Nobody should ever say anything to a mom breastfeeding wherever. I mean it’s like popped out for a second and then covered up anyways. Plus lots of moms use blankets and such. If there was more social acceptability, there might be more commonplace breastfeeding, thus more companies would create and market products designed to help breastfeeding moms do so in public discreetly, (i.e. clothing products with “flaps” and such, etc.)
Something tells me the infant formula companies might be somewhat behind the social “tabboo” of public breastfeeding. Plus breastfeeding is seen as somewhat base I think by a lot of more “trendy” moms. Just my opinion, obviously. Nice post, good points.
Men hate to be reminded that breasts are not solely existent for their pleasure and instead serve a biological function not to their personal benefit as adults. Women tend to be very discrete about it and males can be selfish babies themselves. They need to grow up…..
Men aren’t hard wired, I believe it’s our society and culture and portrays the female’s body. The example of the tribal men does not find breasts as attractive because they find breasts a natural part of human life. Since in the tribal culture has more exposure to the female body while in the Western culture it is all about “covering up.” Once a female shows off a piece of her body she is considered to be “slutty.” I doubt females in tribal cultures or communities do not find exposure of breasts as offensive or “slutty.” The different amount of exposure of breasts in our culture plays a huge part of how males are attracted to breasts or not.
yes, this is so true. Being exposed to breasts everyday will make you get used to them to the point of not caring anymore when you see other womens breasts.
It was interesting to see how overexposure to porn led the man to become less interested before I believe the man in the story who was overexposed to porn and then looking for “more extreme” things. I wonder if he may had a pre-existing addictive personality. I know that people can get used to seeing things and not notice them as much. But I guess some still need what it gives them in the first place. I could take this in another direction by mentioning how I think that many of the things that society calls “natural” (such as gender roles) aren’t natural at all. They are socially constructed. This story makes me think that certain elements of physical attraction may be no different.
Well, you do see overexposure leading to a loss of interest in breasts, not just among men who are overexposed to porn (and not just one man), but within entire cultures. And yes, this definately points up the social construction of both beauty and fetish.
I think that one aspect of this discussion that is apparently overlooked is the natural human attraction to breasts from infant breastfeeding. Infants need to be attracted to their mothers’ breasts (or nipples) because they represent a food source. This could help maybe to explain why both males and females show arousal (greater blood flow to the vaginal area in women) from images of nude women and breasts. The fact that in our conservative society that the breasts are covered up after breast feeding may make them all the more a noticeable, likable and comforting and intriguing image when they are viewed later in life.
Sure, infants being naturally attracted to breasts (food source) is one thing.
But men (or women) being “naturally” attracted to breasts as a sexual stimulant is quite another.
A sexual attraction based on breasts-as-food-source doesn’t make a lot of sense to me, though. If that were the case, it would be found in all cultures, but it’s not. And the attraction of women would be equal to men’s, but it doesn’t seem to be. And I would be sexually attracted to chocolate.
Thanks for putting an interesting theory out there, and reminding us about the actual purpose of breasts: feeding babies.
As stated by the blogger, nourishment and sex are two very different things. The rooting reflex is proof that a newborn’s ‘attraction’ to the breast is instinctual, whereas the adult attraction to breasts is the product of social conditioning as evidenced by the above cross-cultural study.
I feel rather disturbed by the overtly sexual attitudes and super-human standards that many males seem to have toward women’s breasts, and it seems to be the dominant attitude held by males and females alike. For that reason, I think I’d feel extremely demoralized if feminists made an effort to “normalize and desexualize” breasts by exposing them publicly in protest. I hate being in the presence of males when women’s breasts are exposed, in my experience their responses have consistently indicated arousal or pleasure and it makes me feel self-aware and uncomfortable.
I had a male tell me directly that my breasts were disappointing to him for their size and imply my diminished “appeal” as a result. That said, I would be SO happy if breasts were seen as they were in tribal times as not-sexually stimulating, normal, natural, not a big deal, and certainly not definitive of a woman’s worth or value. Intimate relationships are great for exposing the attitudes shared by both you and your partner on sex and body image; I believe they are exactly the place to see, cast out, and replace these attitudes if there is enough trust, understanding, and mutual respect between you and your partner.
It’s funny that you blame feminists for ‘demoralizing’ you. I think you’ll find the women most likely to take their tops off in public are not feminists. Just fyi….
Well, none of this actually matters anyways. What we do in this life is a “bunch” of crap to fill in the blanks. We are here to experience this physical plain. We are very different from every other creature on this planet. Natural or not many things were bound to become unnatural or twisted or distorted and redefined because we are here to expereince. We do things because sitting around in a jungle is not a very good expereince. Not wholly.
It was only inevitable that breasts would become points of desire. The same as how penis length in some cultures is more desirable than other cultures. The same reason that feet are a fetish with some people. Why we enjoy skydiving and drinking alcohol and smoking weeds or tobaccos. None of these are natural activities. If we lived to eat have babies and never invent or discover than life wouldn’t be worth living….NOT with our capabilities as humans.
Those of you who get angry because some men or women enjoy large plump breasts and don’t see them for the only purpose they are here for, to feed children, because it it is not natural. Then I suggest stop typing on a computer because we didn’t have one spontaneously organise itself through millions of years and become a natural needful object to our survival. Your fingers werent made to type it’s unnatural.
Anyways that’s my 2 cents.
Here are my thoughts.
1) It’s simply interesting to many people to learn that the breast fetish is a cultural construction
2) Learning that something isn’t natural can help people to change if they so desire. So, girls who feel inferior because they don’t have huge breasts can take heart knowing that huge breasts aren’t valued in all cultures. No need to feel physically inferior.
3) Problems can come when women do things to harm themselves to get large breasts. Better to know you’re fine as are
4) About 30% of wmn who get augmentation lose sexual sensation in their breasts. They become more objects of men’s desire – enhancing men’s desire – while losing capacity for their own sexual enjoyment.
5) Sometimes mothers won’t breast feed (natural reason for breasts) because she sees her breasts as sexual. Now, that is a problem.
Just my 2 cents.
Thanks for your comment.
My point is all about the experience. Look at this from a much broader point of view. And the whole breast feeding thing is optional. It is actually not a necessary function these days. I guarantee you that an infant will not know the difference between sucking on a woman’s nipple while the mother holds them or sucking on a bottle’s nipple while the mother holds them. That’s purely choice these days.
My point though really goes to those who don’t like things that they deem natural or unnatural. I contend that it is consciousness experiencing that brings these things about.
I don’t think things are better just because they’re natural, either. It depends on the matter.
W/breasts, natural is better in the following ways, for example:
1. breastfeeding is healthier for babies
2. Emphasis on large breasts damages many women’s self image/self-worth
3. Emphasis on large breasts can damage the sexual experience for men who want more, and for women who can sense this.
4. Women feel pressure to get unnatural implants which can dull their sexual sensitivity or create pain
5. Women feel pressure to get unnatural implants which can kill them. Surgery is not just a simple matter
Oh,really???This libidinous lad will NEVER TIRE of ogling big boob babes,regardless of my age!!!(I’ll be 58 July 6,and look at luscious ladies MORE NOW than at 18,28,38 and 48!!!)
Just because the breast fetish is socially constructed doesn’t mean it’s not truly felt and powerful. Social constructions act as realities.
Makes sense to me. Excellent, thoughtful post.
How do you feel about a well-turned ankle?
Yeah. Ankles used to be considered erotic in the U.S. (and still are in parts of th Middle East) when they were covered. I was surprised to learn that.
Women should worship their bodies!
It’s about the “forbidden” aspect. Something is only “dirty” “hot” whatever when it’s a “forbidden fruit.” That’s exactly what happens when you make something “illegal,” people get all stir-crazy about it, because “they can’t have it.”
Sorry for all the punctuation.
Thanks for your comments. I appreciate getting a male perspective on both boobs and breastfeeding.
I must have missed something. How does the fact that some cultures do not cover up their breasts prove that “Men aren’t hard wired to find breasts attractive”? Does our culture’s failure to cover up women’s faces (unlike, say Islam), prove that men aren’t hardwired to find women’s faces attractive?
I find it very interesting that straight women are turned on by looking at another woman’s breasts. This has actually happened to me since I was in high school, and I could never figure out why. Did it mean that I was bisexual? I am still a little confused on how it works that way, when I have my own breasts, why should another woman’s get me excited? Since learning about the nebulization occurring in our culture I am no longer questioning myself. I love men and being with a man. I have never felt that lovey dovey feeling about a woman, so I am 99% sure that I am straight. It is just really interesting that some women don’t realize or can’t admit that naked breasts turn them on. I can admit it, although I was ashamed, because it made me question my sexuality. In my other women’s class that I took in college, it explained how tribal women are always topless and that doesn’t make the women or even the men in that culture get horny. Georgia has explained that breasts are so sexualized in American culture because they are hidden but exposed at the same time, but I still don’t completely understand how that works. And I have felt that my own were too small in the past, now that I have gained weight , they are a lot larger, but it actually causes me pain, so I would gladly exchange them for the ones I used to have. It was definitely something that bothered me in middle school and high school. I don’t have any children yet, but when I do, I would like to breast feed but I have heard that it is painful. I have also heard stories of some women having orgasms from the sensation and then the women feel uncomfortable with that and stop. There is also the stigma of breast feeding in public, which I personally dont have a problem with, I think it more that male partners (husbands, boyfriends, baby daddy’s) that don’t want other people to see their ladies breasts. I have two relatives who have had boob jobs, and they both lost most of the feeling in their nipples and neither one can sleep comfortably. I would never get implants, unless I got cancer and had to remove mine.
A lot of women end up on my blog because they’ve googled phrases like “I’m straight but find breasts erotic” or people refer this blog post on Yahoo Answers (and the like) when a woman asks, “I’ve always been attracted to men, but I find breasts erotic. Am I secretly gay or bi?”
It’s a common issue.
According to this: article, straight men are aroused by penises. So unless you want to claim that penises are not sexual, I think we can safely say that the tribal argument is irrelevant. Breasts and penises are inherently erotic, and tribes just happen to get lots of free porn.
Here are the opening lines of the link you sent: “Straight men are as aroused by penises as homosexuals.”
But this is a misreading of the research. Researchers, Ogi Ogas and Sai Gaddam, were only looking at what men searched for on the internet, not whether they got aroused by it. That’s an assumption made by the authors of the article.
Men could be searching for penises out of curiosity. Wondering how theirs compares, for instance.
Another study that actually wired men up and showed them porn found that straight men became engorged by hetero images and gay men by gay images. (Women were not consistent.)
In studies of men and porn, some hetero guys do describe starting out interested in women only, but when that becomes blase from over-exposure, they move on to other things. The focus on ejaculation (on women’s faces and bodies) comes to be a turn-on for many. But after a while the thrill of seeing penises ejaculate can create eroticism around the penis itself for some. But that is learned. It wasn’t exciting at first — not until the association was made.
And if penises are naturally arousing, you’d expect that straight women would get all excited about them. Yet (unlike porn’s depiction) women are more likely to feel nauseated by texted penises. See this post: Sexy Weiner?
http://broadblogs.com/2011/06/10/sexy-weiner/
You must’ve missed the part where the tribal nation was not aroused, so much for ‘free porn’, ugh…your misinterpretation proves that the breast fetish IS a result of social conditioning. Also, penises and breasts are completely different body parts and it’s unnerving that you would equate an organ expressly used for sex with a body part that nourishes children.
Good points… but if this were true, then my husband of 12 years who has seen my breasts daily would not STILL is attracted to them, BUT he IS… LOL I found this interesting someone else shared: “Humans in every culture recognize firm shapely breasts as a fertility symbol and therefore sexually attractive and stimulating, in France, the idea behind topless sunbathing was to desexualize breasts, it failed and now French feminists want topless sunbathing banned. The reasons that women topless isn’t allowed are down to one anti sex social movement or another, religion and feminism being the two main influences”
While some feminists wanted toplessness to de-eroticize breasts, that was not the motivation of most women on topless European beaches. It was the style and sexy. But it did have the effect feminists wanted. toplessnss became no big deal.
Most men who’ve responded to this issue have told me that while they continue to find their wives breasts attractive over time, the feeling isn’t the same heightened fetish that they experienced at first. New women’s breasts get them way more aroused.
Also, for the breast fetish to fall away completely, men must see them constantly. This can happen when all women are topless all the time, as with tribal societies (where the fetish is never created in the first place — the fetish is created through hiding breasts or by hiding and selectively revealing them + signifying them as sexual). In societies where toplessness is common, but where where breasts are still usually covered, the fetish is greatly reduced, as in Europe in the 80s. Or, men who are overexposed to breasts from too much porn actually stop finding them arousing.
Also, see my response to xpusostomus, below.
Size preference varies greatly by culture, for instance, tribal societies that lack bras prefer small breasts because they sag less. (When breasts have no support, bigger one’s become long and tubular.)
But the last sentence isn’t correct. Feminists have often advocated for toplessness.
I hardly think men’s desire for new toys has any bearing on whether breasts are sexy.
No one’s saying breasts aren’t sexy any more than that legs aren’t sexy. But when a man has been exposed to the same breasts over time they lose the intense fetish appeal that breasts have when seen for the first time.
I dispute some of Dr. Platt’s facts and conclusions and am disappointed because her other posts are really informative.
1. She takes it for granted that tribal men don’t factor breasts into their assessment of a woman’s sexiness – her only evidence is that they don’t cover them or make a big deal out of them. But we don’t make a big deal out of mens’ hip-to-waist ratios – in fact, women don’t even consciously notice it much of the time. However, we know from experiments that certain hip-to-waist ratios are extremely attractive to women. Also, we do sexualize parts of the body that are not covered (foot fetishes are very common), so the fact that tribal peoples often don’t cover breasts isn’t good evidence that they don’t like them.
2. We have some independent reasons to suspect that breasts may be sexy cross-culturally. We know that some hormones associated with sexual activity will affect the breasts and reproductive organs simultaneously – in a sense, they are hormonally wired together. This breast-vagina connection gives any man a reason to regard breasts as extensions of a womans sexuality. Also, breast size is an (extremely) rough indicator of hormonal levels related to fertility, and therefore, to sex. So, factoring breasts into the attractiveness equation may help a man reproduce successfully. Many primitive cultures understood this, hence the representation of fertility goddess figurines with huge breasts. Also, symmetry is a universally sexy attribute, and it can be observed readily by looking at breasts which are often near-mirror images of each other that lie on the same horizontal plane.
It makes sense that some women want to portray the attraction to breasts as shallow. Women are constantly objectified, evaluated sexually, and have to deal with the threat of rape. This is a lot of pressure, and male fascination with breasts contributes to it. Anything that diminishes the validity of male fascination with breasts can be comforting, and I’m all for it. But it’s complicated and should be treated as though it is complicated.
Traits that aid survival are more likely than others to be successfully passed on. If large breasts were so good at indicating fertility and aiding survival, then genes for large breasts would be passed on more often than genes for small breasts. And yet, when there is low obesity and no implants (like the US in the 1950s) 70% of women are an A or B-cup – considered small today.
Sure, when a woman’s body weight is so low that she is no longer fertile, her breasts will be smaller, but that is completely different from perfectly healthy women who are an A or B-cup.
Of course, the notion that large breasts reflect physical superiority was evidenced at the Olympics, where the women competitors all had enormous breasts. Or, turning to intellectual superiority, go to any academic department – Harvard, Yale, Princeton — and you’ll see that all the female faculty are of the most buxom sort.
Not.
Even the breast-vagina (clitoris, really) connection you mention would argue for the “superiority” of smaller breasts. Smaller breasted women usually feel this connection more strongly. And it’s probably in the service of getting women to BREAST FEED (since it feels good), anyway!
And, tribal societies tend to prefer smaller breasts (even if they don’t experience a breast fetish) because without bras large breasts get long and tubular. Seen a National Geographic lately? (Maybe that’s why we have so many smaller-breasted women today.)
Also, I was referring to the BREAST FETISH, not general attractiveness – and I think most people got that. (I specifically used the term “breast fetish” in the post). There’s no fetish involving waist-hip ratios.
People often use evolutionary psychology to justify the status quo. In this case, justifying US men’s obsession with big breasts – “They can’t help it, they are just looking for the best genes” — a fixation missing in many parts of the world, like Europe.
Do you get that if men in our culture preferred small breasts, all of the above would be used to explain that status quo?
Who cares if the obsession unnecessarily objectifies women and crushes their self-esteem (almost no women feel good about their bodies, and a perceived failure to live up to the standards of the big breast fetish is one big reason why). It also leaves many wonderful women out of the running – while leaving many men missing out on wonderful mates, even as the big breast fetish leads too many women to do UNHEALTHY things like get breast implants.
Here’s another reason why objectification and the big breast fetish hurts men, by the way:
Does Sexual Objectification Lead to Bad Sex?
http://broadblogs.com/2011/07/27/does-sexual-objectification-lead-to-bad-sex/
I hope that our interactions on this blog are warmer from now on. After all, I only bother you because I think you’re good (and because I think there are few things more important that women’s issues.)
I think we’ve been using a false dichotomy when it comes to the origin of male attraction to breasts. We say “Is it hard-wired or is it just socialized”. I think there is a middle ground I’ll describe here.
Almost universally, humans consider prototypically masculine things sexy in men and prototypically feminine things sexy in women. A lot of the time, the things that are considered feminine are constructed by society (Japanese think that talking a lot isn’t masculine, but the Azores Portuguese don’t think that.). But pronounced breasts aren’t socially constructed – they are present in almost all women and absent in almost all men. Hence they will represent femininity by raw behavioristic association and therefore will be a focus of male sexual desire. Does that mean attraction to breasts is hard-wired, No. But it’s not deeply sociological either – a man raised by wolves who had only seen men and women from afar would associate breasts with those creatures he wants to mate with (women).
Does that mean that the appeal of large breasts is hard-wired? No. But it may be a non-sociological default state for men based on association (of course, it may be a default – that doesn’t mean that societies won’t change it). If I write the word BREAST in caps it may get our attention more than if I write “breast” in lower case. There may be something similar going on when the wolf-man sees large breasts vs. small breasts. If the breasts are big, the signal in his brain that says “Hey look, breasts” may be a little louder than if the breasts were small. This may result in more arousal/attraction.
I’m glad you like my blog. Just saying the breast fetish is socially created.
You claim to dispute the Dr.’s conclusions and yet you proceed to make several unsubstantiated claims without citing a single source. How disappointing….
Also, your claim about fertility idols doesn’t hold water among the many other claims you’ve made. The breasts on those statues were larger probably because a woman’s breasts become engorged with milk, not from any kind of hypersexualization.
In that case, beards are a typical sign of masculinity. They’re a result of male hormones, and thus indicate fertility (i.e. the man has reached puberty). Then, the longer the beard, the sexier. Women should be all crazy around the world for big beards….
Oh, well, they aren’t.
You’re also forgetting that nipples are an erogenous zone for men as much as they are for women (in fact, many women don’t have much sensibility in their breasts), and they can also reach orgasm by nipple stimulation alone. But still, society doesn’t regard male nipples as sexual as female nipples.
Your comment actually assumes that the breast fetish is biologically based, when it is not. And in fact, men in cultures where women’s hair is covered come to see hair as erotic. I believe it was on this post that one of my commenters described his experience in the Arab world that way. But I also had a student from Iran who lived there when the dress code was very strict. She said that on occasion she would slip her veil back a bit and watched the men go crazy from her “hair cleavage.”
I found this article interesting, but I have some objections to your assertion. Firstly, I think I’ll be pretty comfortable in a tribal society with exposed breasts and all. However, I would have a more difficult time if that were the case in these parts. Let’s just say it was never an issue for me when my grandma went topless.
Secondly, you claim that it’s not natural for men to find breasts attractive and you base your claim on effects of overexposure to porn etc. I can’t help but wonder if the American men are experiencing a case of ”oversexualization” while the European men are experiencing a case of ”desexualization” or more accurately, ”desensitization”. In other words, there’s a middle ground with American and European men on both extremes. Afterall, we all know the effect of repeated stimuli which by no means imply that there was never a natural affinity involved at the beginning.
We observe the same effect in drug addicts. They keep requiring a higher dosage to achieve the same high, but that does not mean that this higher dosage is their natural disposition. No, it’s just a case of natural stimuli becoming ”dulled” due to overexposure. The proof is in the example you gave about the man that seeks out more ”extreme” stuff. Based on these objections, I feel your conclusion on this issue was a bit off. Nevertheless, it was an interesting and thought-provoking read. Thanks.
Overexposure to porn was not the only example I gave. I gave 4:
1. Tribal men who constantly see breasts don’t fetish them
2. 1980s European men largely lost the fetish with overexposure
3. Overexposure to porn leads to loss of fetish
4. Western women learn the fetish, too. No biological reason for that
All four must be kept in mind, as they make the argument together.
You say you’d be comfortable in a tribal society, but consider that, as a whole, breasts in those societies are defined as non-sexy. We all, then, learn that definition, so that could play a role in your non-interest. That said, I’ve dated guys who told me about their fetish reaction to those breasts when first encountering a National Geographic. Wouldn’t surprise me if part of the reason National Geographic uses those pics is to appeal to the fetish. So it affects other Western males, even if not you.
Based on tribal societies, breasts do not appear to be naturally arousing, but become so as they are hidden. And, tribal societies were the norm until more recent history. Consider this:
An Iranian student of mine told me that when she lived in Iran years ago (when they were more strict than today) she sometimes let a bit of her hair show because it drove the men wild. If all the world had women cover their hair, except small tribal societies, you’d probably assume that “hair cleavage” was naturally sexually arousing, but that tribal societies had lost simply lost the fetish from overexposure.
Fetishes are created by covering. Which is what non-tribal societies do.
Just seeing your grandma’s breasts isn’t enough to overcome a fetish. The whole society would need to go topless.
And how do you explain that women learn the breast fetish, too? There is no biological reason for that.
And if you think that the breast fetish helps women and men in the bedroom, it doesn’t. Especially not in the long run as men lose the fetished response to their wive’s breasts. The focus on women’s bodies hurts both women and men sexually, and in a variety of ways.
Does Sexual Objectification Lead to Bad Sex?
http://broadblogs.com/2011/07/27/does-sexual-objectification-lead-to-bad-sex/
The appeal of sexuality goes far beyond visual stimulation, which is largely learned by men in this culture — not in all cultures. (And what male-embodied fetish do men offer women to get women aroused, anyway?)
Generally speaking, I don’t respond to long rants. Rarely ever even read them. I made an exception here.
The example of women learning the fetish is a somewhat stronger argument. It’s an entirely valid point, but the evidence you gave on this point was of women looking at pictures of nude women. I’m assuming nudity includes exposure of other body parts besides the breast, so how can you single out the breast as the sole cause of arousal in these women?
No wonder the bare breast tribes are almost extinct today- evolution at work. Time will reveal the effect of the European sexual desensitization on their population. Why do some women get orgasms just from fondling their breasts if it’s not a sexual organ? I really don’t think there’s enough evidence to rule out biology here.
Ok, which part of women’s bodies is so intriguing to women, if not the breasts? Having experienced the phenomenon myself, it’s what I look at. I don’t care about seeing a woman’s hair, legs, arms, stomach… See them all the time. And genitals don’t interest me much (or men either, judging from what men google search for — which is interesting. They’re inherently more sexual)
And here is a sampling of terms used to get to my blog:
is it normal for women to have breast fetish
im not gay why am i attracted to breasts
straight girl with boob fetish
straight women who like breasts
why would a woman be aroused by viewing another womans large breasts
My blog has also been referred to on forums like “Yahoo Answers” when questions like the following are posed:
I’m a female and not a lesbian but i get turned on seeing women naked than seeing men naked. What the heck is wrong with me! …
OR
I am a woman and enjoy watching lesbian porn and thinking about girl on girl when i get myself off. I’ve never been attracted to another woman only guys. I would never want to have sex with a woman. Does this make me a lesbian or bi?
Also, yes, breasts are aroused by stimulation. Ever occur to you that that enjoyment might encourage women to breast feed? The real purpose of breasts?
And until quite recently in human history, ALL of the world was tribal. Yet people reproduced without the fetish!
The reason there are few tribal societies today isn’t because tribal people don’t reproduce, but because most humans advanced in technology and moved out of a tribal life — especially important in cold climates where people can’t live in the elements, hunting and gathering.
I generally won’t post huge rants. I made an exception to your last post. Other questions you brought up in this post were answered in my last response (I recently added a few more points).
I’m sorry about the long rant. I think I’m hard-wired for long rants, haha! Thanks for your responses though, great points! I’ve learnt much so far. Please, bear with me one more time though. I value your opinion on this.
I now think you’re right in saying that it is a learned behaviour. However, isn’t all sexual behavior learned then, including the very act? I mean we try something, we like it, continue it and introduce it to others.
The first humans (hypothetically speaking) must not have known what sex was until they tried it. They liked it so they continued it. They discovered (learned) a way to obtain pleasure and biology supported it. Eventually, they would discover (learn) other ways to maximize that pleasure i.e. breast, leg, bum fetishes, sex positions etc. All supported by biology.
P.S. I’m totally with you when it comes to the objectification of women. I’m just trying to be objective here.
I come from an area of academia which sees the world as socially constructed, in terms of what things mean. Though there are some instincts: a baby’s sucking, a need for food, and the basic sex drive, for instance. How those things manifest, though, varies from culture to culture. The way we discovered the social construction of meaning is by discovering that different cultures see/understand things differently.
And sorry about calling your comment a rant. That’s how “on-and-on” can appear to me.
Ok, thanks a lot. I really appreciate the article and you taking the time to respond to my questions and objections. It was very enlightening.
I’m fascinated by the varied perspectives presented in this chain of comments related to the topic presented. It’s interesting to find that here and primarily in other discussions on this topic throughout social media, western men may argue the point of their attraction to breasts in a subconscious effort to affirm their hetero status, while western women at times belabor the issue with the attempt to draw the correlation that “I have breasts” and “men find me attractive” therefore “breasts are what make me attractive/are my source of validation”.
For those who are interested in giving this subject a closer look, I highly recommend the documentary Busting Out, which can be found on Netflix (watch instantly) and other film-hosting sites.
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/busting-out/
Thanks for the link. I’ll check it out.
This is the first evidence I have heard against the “biologically hardwired” theory. This is fascinating to me because it is one more step towards understanding the media’s inherent power in our (and many other) cultures.
This entry also started me thinking on a totally different subject. I wonder what would have happened if they had done an identical study with groups of homosexual women and heterosexual men? What would their reactions be? Would there be a difference in their arousal when shown pictures of breasts? I would think so considering the fact that the women have a pair of their own… but based on what you have found, I am probably wrong. Well, I would be very interested to see that study’s results.
They have done such a study: http://broadblogs.com/2010/11/29/women-learn-the-breast-fetish-too/
Well I am glad to say that after reading this blog, I no longer think that man only have breast on their mind. I have always felt that way due to the fact that I have a “huge rack”, as said by my guys friends. I always felt as if that is the only good part of my body that attracts a guy to me. But now I will have an open mind when it comes to talking to guys without feeling as if all they are looking at is my chest. One thing that I found interesting about the blog is how it’s states that, “Even men who are overexposed to porn can lose interest”… I feel that this is true in all aspects besides nudity. Anyone doing or seeing the same thing over and over again will just build immunity.
Since large breasts are so highly portrayed in movies, media, etc, it makes sense how women would feel self conscious if they don’t have large breasts and that they have to have them to be beautiful or have a boyfriend. I remember being in 7th grade and since I was skinnier then the average girl at my age I was what you would call flat chested. I would stuff my bra to feel better about myself. Looking back at that now it makes me sad that I felt I had to do that to be accepted by both my peers and feel accepting of myself. A woman is beautiful no matter what size her breasts are and when you find someone who values you even if your breasts aren’t double d’s you realize that large breasts don’t matter. It is wierd that girls can get more stimulated by looking at a naked woman then a naked man. However, it all comes down to the fact that women are seen as sex objects while men arent. I think its dumb that girls feel if they get breast implants they will feel beautiful and all of their problems will go away. As many of these women have experienced, this isn’t the case and large breasts don’t solve problems.
It’s so funny, every time I see this title I think, “are you sure?” it makes me smile.
Glad my blog can make you smile.
It makes sense that after reading this post that what becomes attractive and appealing to people is what it covered up and hidden. Breast are considered very sexy in our culture because it is not presentable for women to walk around exposing them. While in other cultures that is perfectly normal and is not considered attractive at all. In other cultures you have described to us how it could be just a womens neck or hair that is considered irresistable in other peoples cultures and when people from our culture hear that it just sounds so strange to us because it is in our cultures norm to expose that. I guess it is true that you always want what you can’t have. But I was wondering how does this situation work for men in diffrent cultures? I can not really think of ways in other cultures that parts of men are considered dirastically sexier than others?
I’m not aware of the male body being sexualized in other cultures. In all cultures I’m aware of the male body is pretty exposed on a regular basis.
Great article. I’ve been telling this to people for ages now, that breasts aren’t more sexual per se than necks or ears or feet. They’re there to feeding babies, that’s all. It’s as if women had eroticized men’s Adam’s apple just because we haven’t it.
However, you’re wrong about the experiment that measured vaginal blood flow. That experiment, as well as several others conducted by the same researchers and other ones, concluded that women’s bodies respond more or less THE SAME to all kinds of stimuli: men, women, consensual sex, non-consensual sex, even sex between animals.
The most common theory is that women evolved to lubricate automatically in response to any sexual stimuli, to prevent damage during rape. So it’s not really that women are educated to find breasts erotic, it’s just the body responding to something sexual, no matter if you find it attractive or repulsive (this is specially clear in the experiment that used consensual and rape scenes; men’s genitals responded only to consensual sex, while women’s responded to both, even when they found the rape scene disgusting).
Thanks. Glad you liked the post.
Otherwise, depends on whether the women were watching men/wmn having sex (with themselves or others) or whether they were simply looking at a nude body.
Equivilent arousal if sex-oriented (hence, need for protection).
More arousal toward women if just looking at bodies.
Also, when wearing glasses that track eye movement, and watching a nude couple in foreplay, men looked only at the woman. Women spent half their time looking at the man’s face. Other half at the woman’s body.
More evidence that the breast fetish is learned by both sexes and that women have culturally come to be seen as the sexier sex.
All this is discussed in this NYTimes piece:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/25/magazine/25desire-t.html?_r=2&scp=1&sq=What%20Do%20Women%20Want?%20bonobos&st=csehttp://&
As for women showing more physical arousal to the female nude than the male nude, here’s the trick: It turns out that the two nudes didn’t have the same erotic content in reality. The naked man was simply walking in the beach, and his penis was completely flaccid. However, the naked woman was shown exercising, opening and closing the legs, and thus showing genitalia in a way that could be interpreted as of sexual nature. Thus the physical response to the sexual cue.
This was explained in the original research here: http://files.embedit.in/embeditin/files/45IleOWgm/1/file.pdf
But of course, the press just ignored this important detail.
However, your theory is perfectly true when you examine the subjective responses of the women, instead of the physical ones. If you look at the research data, you’ll see that straight women rated the heterosexual sex scene as the most arousing, but then rated the gay sex scene lower than the lesbian sex scene (actually, they rated higher the scene of a solitary man masturbating than the gay porn). This is where I see how much the homophobia and prejudices of straight men have affected the minds of women. Both straight and lesbian porn is seen as “normal” and “acceptable” in society, but gay porn is seen as deviant and disgusting.
At least for those “weird” women, because gay male erotica is a very common “turn-on” for straight women around the world. There are entire genres, like slash fiction and yaoi, dedicated to this (gay male erotica made by women for women). On the other hand, there’s not a market of lesbian erotica for straight women.
That’s why I wonder why those women rated the gay porn so low. The only explanation I have is that they had the same homophobic prejudices of men. And they were AMERICAN. If the same study was conducted in Japan, where yaoi is so popular among girls, I guess they’d had found a completely different result.
As for the eye-track movement study, I agree that the differences are due exclusively to culture. Also, I suppose that they used some commercial porn movie for the study, instead of making a new one, and the focus of those movies is always on the woman. Probably the women didn’t look so much at the male body because there wasn’t anything to watch in the first place.
As for the men watching just the woman, I don’t buy it. If men didn’t like to watch male bodies and penises, why would they put so many scenes of fellatio in pornography, why would they seek actors with large penises? They were probably just repressing themselves because they knew they were tracking their eyes.
Re the trick: It turns out that the naked man was simply walking in the beach w/flaccid penis while the naked woman was exercising, showing genitalia in a way that could be interpreted as of sexual nature. But the press just ignored this important detail.
Actually, the press didn’t ignore that detail and I discussed it in a separate blog post: Women Learn the Breast Fetish, Too http://broadblogs.com/2010/11/29/women-learn-the-breast-fetish-too/
You can read what I wrote there. For now I’ll just repeat that this theory you cite comes from someone who is only an expert in biology but not culture. I chose to consider how culture/socialization could have played a role. After all, as I note a woman is no more likely to be penetrated by a vagina than a flaccid penis.
Most people in our culture assume that all of our responses are biologically based and not cultural. Certainly a biologist would have that same bias. I sought to consider how culture could be having effects.
Next you suggest that: As for the eye-track movement study, I suppose that they used some commercial porn where the focus is always on the woman. Probably the women didn’t look so much at the male body because there wasn’t anything to watch in the first place.
If they had shown that sort of movie it would have been useless for their purpose. Why track people’s eyes to see what they look at if the male body is not shown?
And if you read comments from women above (or from http://broadblogs.com/2010/11/29/women-learn-the-breast-fetish-too/) you will see that many of them agree with me that they find the female body more erotic than the male, even though they’re hetero. When I talk about this in my classes many women often nod their heads in agreement.
My alternate theory of socialization came out of my own experience. I was puzzled because I had always been attracted to males — boys when I was younger and men as I aged. And I had always ignored women. They just didn’t seem interesting to me sexually. One woman who was very beautiful and sexy actually did want to have sex with me one time, and while I thought she looked very sexy the thought of sex with her made me nauseous. Yet I have always seen the female body is more erotic and I have heard other women say the same thing. I could never understand the inconsistency until I got into sociology and the social construction of sexuality and learned that the breast fetish is not experienced in all cultures. I began to see from a variety of sources that women in our culture learn the breast fetish along with men. And if men learn it why wouldn’t women? We are all exposed to the same sorts of images and talk about how erotic breasts are.
Here are a couple of other posts I’ve written on the topic:
Women Seeing Women as Sexier than Men
http://broadblogs.com/2011/01/10/women-seeing-women-as-sexier-than-men/
Women, Objects of Desire (Even for Women?)
http://broadblogs.com/2011/10/03/women-objects-of-desire-even-for-women/
Maybe you’ve never been drawn to breasts so don’t get it. Culture creates patterned behavior in variously shaped bell-curve forms. So some people are less affected than others for a variety of reasons.
You seem to assume that I’m against the idea of the breast fetish being a cultural development. I’m not, I’m 100% sure that it has to do ONLY with culture.
In fact, I had once a big discussion with a group of girls because I told them that I didn’t find the female body attractive, and the only reason people found it more attractive is because of society, and they went on a rampage, shouting things like “How can you say that!? A woman’s body is a piece of art!”, and so on, and so on.
However, those girls came from South America and had a very sexist (and paradoxically homophobic) attitude and education. I’m from Spain, so I don’t know, maybe here the breast fetish isn’t as important as in America. And it’s usual that women watch male strip shows in parties, or crowd around male go-go’s in discos (certainly, they DON’T watch female strip shows, and don’t go to those clubs).
My only objection is to the interpretation of Chiver’s study and the physical response of those women as indicator of cultural bias. The same study found also physical arousal in women when viewing bonobos mating, even when there’s no such a thing as a “bonobo fetish”. Also, after reading this study: http://pss.sagepub.com/content/early/2010/12/28/0956797610394660.abstract is hard to conclude that women would have a “rape fetish” while men didn’t. Also, notice that in both studies there was a significant disconnection between their minds and their bodies. The body reacted, but it wasn’t acknowledged by the mind, which supports the idea of the reaction being just a protective reflex and hard-wired.
As for some straight women feeling a strange attraction for other women, it may be due in some cases to cultural distortions, but in others, it may be just that many people isn’t completely and absolutely straight. There are lots and lots of straight men that are aroused by gay porn and the sight of penises, or that have gay fantasies (no joke, just look in Yahoo Answers or simply google “straight but likes gay porn” or “straight but likes penis” or whatever comes to your mind). And this happens even when men aren’t sexualized in media.
You’ve said repeatedly that you think the fetish is learned. But only by men. One of your comments makes sense only if deep down you think it’s biological, even as you say it’s not. Men learn it. But women don’t? Why wouldn’t they?
Otherwise, I already know, and have dealt with, everything that you just said. I’ve already made my argument, several times, as to why I disagree with Chiver’s biological-only based interpretation of the data – which she says she doesn’t fully understand, herself. She says she’s giving her best guess.
Arousal may be socially constructed, or not. A fetish is a social construction (whether breast fethish or so-called rape fantasy). Arousal (however unconsciously) by bonobos is not. That’s instinctual.
I’m also aware of bi-sexuality. That doesn’t fit my, or many other women’s, experience.
A few more posts related to your comments:
Why Aren’t Male Strippers Sexy?
http://broadblogs.com/2012/07/09/why-arent-male-strippers-sexy/
Gays Find Strippers Sexy; Women Don’t?
http://broadblogs.com/2012/07/16/gays-find-strippers-sexy-women-dont/
Magic Mike Turns Tables on Objectification, Desire
http://broadblogs.com/2012/07/18/magic-mike-turns-tables-on-objectification-desire/
Man as Object: Reversing the Gaze
http://broadblogs.com/2011/10/24/man-as-object-reversing-the-gaze/
Women Gazing At Men
http://broadblogs.com/2012/07/23/women-gazing-at-men/
Men, Women React to Male/Female Nudity
http://broadblogs.com/2011/10/12/gendered-reactions-to-male-and-female-nudity/
No, I haven’t said at any point that the breast fetish was learned only by men. I’m aware it can be learned also by women, and I’ve known many women that think that the female body is more attractive than the male one, or that think that breasts are naturally erotic. I’ve said before that the subjective responses of women in Chiver’s study are a sign of a learned fetish and/or of homophobic prejudice (i.e. perceiving lesbian porn as more arousing than gay porn).
What I don’t see as a sign of a learned fetish is the PHYSICAL response.
In the first study conducted by Chivers (here: http://www.canyons.edu/faculty/labriem/psych230/sexdifferencesinspecificitysexualarousal.pdf) is even more clear. The physical arousal of straight women is almost perfectly equal to all stimuli (straight, gay and lesbian). If the physical response was influenced by cultural fetishes or prejudice, then it would be much higher towards straight and lesbian porn, than towards gay porn, but it’s not.
In fact, the physical response towards gay porn is much, much higher than the subjective response towards that same kind of porn. This suggests that fetishes or homophobia have an influence over women’s minds and perceptions, but not over the body itself. For the body, all stimuli are equally sexual, no matter if it’s a lesbian scene (which is usually considered “sexy” in American society) or a gay scene (which is usually considered repulsive in that same society).
Well, you do actually see a difference when women look at just bodies, rather than people having sex.
But thanks for your comments and links. You’re clearly a thoughtful woman of intelligence.
Thanks. I find the theme of this blog quite interesting. This issue should be explored more often, since it has such negative consequences for women.
Geez, one woman at my ex-job was going to have breast implants very soon, despite having already medium-to-big breasts. And it turned out that other woman at the office had also breast implants. This in a workcenter that had only 10 women, counting me!
The world is going crazy.
I think it is sad when women feel like they need to mutilate themselves whether for their self-esteem or because they think that’s what it takes to attract men. They will often lose sexual sensations in their breasts, too. And it’s basically unhealthy.
Did you read my post today? A bit of an antidote.
http://broadblogs.com/2012/12/12/fat-actress-is-most-desirable-woman/
Yeah, that was refreshing to read. Shows how the media has the power to change people’s minds towards the better, instead of towards the worse, as usual.
A good sign, for sure.
I completely agree, most men and women believe that being attracted to breasts is a natural male instinct. Whether or not men are attracted to breasts depends on the culture. In our culture women are sexualized that is why breasts are so desired. If the female body and sometimes the male body weren’t only thought of as sexual objects then maybe people will would be more comfortable with their bodies and not feel ashamed of them. Men use the excuse “I can’t help but like them, it’s in my nature” but that’s just an excuse.
So what do we do to not sexualize body parts so much? I can look at a naked woman who is not doing anything sexual and not get aroused, because she isn’t doing anything sexual. But breasts spend more time in the view of the imagination than the view of the eyes. I understand how that gives them power. It’s like any form of censorship. Censorship just gives more power to what is censored. But we can’t just decide to all walk around naked, so my question is how can we change our minds to just look at the human body and see it as a human body? My answer to my own question would be to just make people aware of this and spread the news. If one searches on the internet for a picture of a naked man or woman, it is usually in a sexual pose or situation. So other than informing people of what is happening how do we change the way this is going? And another issue is that my friends can’t look at a picture of a naked man without looking away as if it is wrong, or the same situation for an “unattractive” woman. Like talking about whether a man is attractive. Women can point out if another woman is attractive, but men are scared to say that a man is attractive. I don’t mean to stray from the subject, I just don’t know what to do.
I really don’t think there’s anything wrong with you getting aroused by seeing breasts.
The problems come when either men expect breasts to look a particular way that is fake such that women would need to get surgery to achieve that look — which is ridiculous. Another problem is when men can only see women as their breasts: When men turn women into sex objects – things that are only about sex and men’s pleasure and they can’t see the whole woman. Which can lead to things like use and abuse. Also, being rude to the woman you’re with by staring at some other woman’s breasts.
See this post:
Anything Good About Being A Sex Object?
http://broadblogs.com/2011/05/23/anything-good-about-being-a-sex-object/
On the homophobia that keeps men from being able to acknowledge attractive men, maybe have a conversation about it? You could start by saying the topic came up in class and what do you think about it?
It is strange to be the one to point this out, but where does the standard for this “breast fetish” come from? Why are we using African tribes to prove that the breast fetish in America is learned? Africans are exposed to breast, therefore they lose their interest. Perhaps, it isn’t Western cultures the learn breast fetish, maybe it is the over-exposed tribes that have lost it.
I guess you didn’t read the other comments. Granted, there are a lot of them. But you aren’t the first.
First, in my post I mentioned that women learn the breast fetish, too. If it were natural, hetero women wouldn’t experience it. For more on that see this post:
Women Learn the Breast Fetish, Too
http://broadblogs.com/2010/11/29/women-learn-the-breast-fetish-too/
So yeah, in Western societies both men and women come to experience the breast fetish on some level whereas in tribal cultures neither men nor women do.
In a follow-up article I write about how even women come to see women as the sexier sex. Hetero women shouldn’t see women as the sexier sex. That would have to be learned, and I describe how it is:
Women Seeing Women as Sexier than Men
http://broadblogs.com/2011/01/10/women-seeing-women-as-sexier-than-men/
And consider student of mine who is from Iran. She was there soon after the revolution when women were expected to cover themselves completely except for their face. During that time hair became a fetish because it was always covered. She told me that every now and then she would pull her veil back a little bit and watch the men go wild over her “hair cleavage.”
In America prior to the 1920s flappers, even seeing an ankle was very sexy and scandalous. (Same with Afghanistan under the Taliban today.) I was looking through some old family photos and one of my grandmothers was pulling her skirt up above her ankle to be very sexy. I couldn’t even comprehend what she was doing until someone explained what was happening.
So there are a number of ways in which you see that when you cover, or selectively hide and reveal (because a body part is deemed sexual) that body part becomes highly sexualized and fetished.
So much of what we think is biological is actually all about the social construction of reality.
Media definitely plays a huge role in the way society perceives a naked body. For example, Victoria Secret sponsors an annual fashion show which is televised and broadcast online. They promote and advertise the show among the male media outlets. They succeed by creating a hype regarding the fashion show and men love watching the models strut themselves in lingerie. Perhaps we need to guide our culture on not to portray a women’s body in such sexual manner.
We should not interpret women showing their breast in public (breast feeding or sunbathing nude) as appalling. Every time I see a women breast feed in public I am happy that women chose to breast feed. Because it’s not easy! I breastfed both my daughters and it’s not as easy as just popping out a breast and putting your child to suck. Its dedication and commitment and we as society and a culture need to promote the benefits of breastfeeding.
I do agree that men are not hard wired to find breasts attractive. The research shows that men in different cultures find different things about a women to be attractive. In America I find it very funny that men seem to be hard wired to notice anyone showing skin. Doesnt usually matter what is being shown; legs, waist, cleavage, or the back. Out of the corner of there eye they will notice any female showing skin. The facination is what I find to be very funny. The few times I have been around friends of friends that are from Europe, they seem to make fun of how immature American men seem to be. Over all, American men are not hard wired to find breasts attractive, it just so happens that in America, women seem to be more covered up.
It is no positive thing that breasts are highly sexualized in our culture — just consider the breastfeeding deficit in this country. People who dissapprove of public breastfeeding tend to argue that breasts are inherently sexual, but this cannot be reasonably shown, particularly in light of the primary function of feeding babies. What those people fail to accept is that this (sexually arousing) aspect of breasts clearly falls under the category of Fetish: note definition [3.] from dictionary.com:
Psychology . any object or nongenital part of the body that causes a habitual erotic response or fixation.
“People who dissapprove of public breastfeeding tend to argue that breasts are inherently sexual” is crazy, and goes completely against the primary purpose of breasts.
So true. Thanks.
I can’t and wouldn’t attempt to say whether or not breasts being sexual is biological or not. I do tend to lean toward the view that it is biological based on the fact that no other primate has breasts until they are needing to feed their young. Though I have been trying to research and think about views to the contrary. I appreciate your point of view on the subject and love the fact that you’ve discussed it. However I’ve read through the comments and replies and it doesn’t seem to me like any of the arguments presented have proven that it’s not biological.
The one thing I did not see answered is how we know that these other cultures didn’t just become desensitized to breasts. I read your responses and didn’t see how they proved that other cultures didn’t become desensitized. Every example you gave showed ways in which these cultures actually could have become desensitized to breasts. I have done a lot of research on men becoming desensitized by porn (probably because I was afraid the same would happen to me!) and found that men can watch porn to the point of not being aroused by general sex anymore and they need something more out there and weird in order to get aroused. I don’t think that proves that men aren’t naturally aroused by normal sex.
Also I’m not sure about the anecdotal evidence that you knew someone who said Iranian men went wild when they saw her “hair cleavage”. Perhaps they did and perhaps she was imagining this, maybe they were trying to make her uncomfortable. I’ve heard many stories about men in these countries getting angry when a women revealed too much of her hair but never turned on. I attended an international university and a lot of the men there were from places where the women covered their hair and none of them discussed feeling excitement and arousal when they first moved to England-a country where no one had their hair covered. In fact I used to make jokes about that just to get to some of them. Since I wear extensions I used to ask them if that was the equivalent of getting huge breast implants. I also used to flip my hair around (jokingly of course) and ask them if it was turning them on. They all knew this was a joke and not all of them were amused but they did explain to me that it wasn’t about the hair getting them turned on and that wasn’t why they insisted their women cover their hair. And yes ankles used to be seen as sexy but it’s never been described to me as being an instant turn on – even back in the day. Hair and legs are still sexy even in our culture. I find that something is usually scandalous because of sexism and not because of how much it turns a guy on.
Also I really don’t see how women being turned on by breasts proves that it’s learned. That presupposes that there are only two types of sexuality-heterosexuality and homosexuality. But there are a lot of people that believe sexuality is on a scale. Some people are more or less heterosexual depending on where they are on the scale. Not saying that’s fact but if it is then it more then explains why a woman may be aroused by breasts even though she knows she’s heterosexual. I’m sorry if I didn’t pay attention but how large were these experiments you‘re citing? I ask that because not all women are aroused by breasts. I am very attracted to large breasts only but one of my close friends and my mother have no idea why they do anything for me. (yes we have that open a relationship!) My best friend is technically a heterosexual girl and yet she gets very aroused when she watches lesbian porn or sees vaginas. I think vaginas are gross but I am very turned on by penises. I also get more turned on by gay porn then by lesbian porn. And there are many studies showing that heterosexual men will get aroused by gay porn but does that prove that they learned this?
And what about gay men- most of them aren’t attracted to breasts so why didn’t they learn the attraction? Or is your assertion that everyone learned it they’re just lying to themselves? And why are gay men (and me) attracted to penises but many women aren’t? Do you believe this attraction is biological or always learned? And as far as there being no biological reason for women being attracted to other women’s breasts that argument can and has been used to prove that homosexuality is not biological but learned which I don’t believe it is. For that matter if what you’re sexually attracted to is learned why would there by gay men at all? We live in a very macho male centered country and I would think every guy would learn to be attracted to breasts if it were that simple.
Aside from that we pretty much never get to see penises. Even in the supposedly so much more liberal European countries and films you’ll see rampant naked women but only rarely get to see an erect penis. If we become aroused by things that are covered shouldn’t women learn to be aroused by the sight of a penis?
I have more questions but that’s already a whole lot!
First, please read my comment policy. I don’t really have time to read comments that are this long but I will this time. In future I probably won’t approve if it’s this long because I don’t approve any comments that I haven’t read.
No other species but kangaroos have pouches. Does that make pouches sensual? What does the fact that “only one species has a trait” have to do with the trait being sensual? The reasoning doesn’t follow. Why shouldn’t other sorts of animals have breasts to attract males? btw, udders actually do protrude, too, and I’ve seen some breasts on primates before.
Also, the higher you go up the evolutionary scale the fewer instincts we have. And humans have very few instincts.
If the breast fetish is biological then how could it serve its purpose with early humans when women in tribal societies typically walk around topless? So that is most of human history. Sounds like a pretty useless thing to have breasts be inherently erotic and yet most of human history men desensitized.
Also, males lose the fetish very quickly with any particular woman. After he has seen one woman’s breasts they don’t arouse him that much after the first few times — though he can still find them attractive. That’s why you need so much fresh flesh in porn. Why would that be biological to see your partner’s breasts just a few times and then no fetish response, anymore?
Also, on Muslims getting aroused by hair, you must have missed the comment that one man made on my blog when he said that when he was in the Middle East all he wanted to see was women’s hair. He didn’t care about breasts nearly as much – he was just craving seeing hair. He may have written that on a different post — I’ve written more than one on the topic.
Also, it’s easy to tell the difference between anger and sexual excitement. And research has shown that people – and women in particular — are very good at reading emotions and nonverbal language. So the Islamic woman was probably right in her assessment of sexual arousal, and not anger.
She also said that this happened during an earlier time when women’s hair was strictly covered, and when you didn’t have satellite TV and the Internet and Islamic men watching porn, which is very different from now.
Of course, the hair-thing is still a bit different because men would see their mothers, grandmothers, daughters, etc. hair. Imagine if men constantly saw the breasts of their mothers, grandmothers, sisters, daughters and close female friends. That would certainly dampen the breast fetish.
Still, I also read a New York Times article on allowing swimsuits in Dubai. In response the men who worked near the beaches started staring and taking pictures and getting in the water to try to cop a feel. That is all about women being covered and their bodies becoming sexualized in that way. Their reaction is very different from American men who see women in swimsuits routinely.
And do you think that all women are bisexual? Women, generally, responded to a naked woman more than to a naked man. And all women looked at the woman’s body instead of the man’s body in the film of a couple in foreplay. What does that have to do with there being a continuum of straight to bisexual to gay? In my own experience I have never been interested in women. I just don’t think of them and am not drawn to them, sexually. The thought of a relationship with a woman seems boring. And when I have been offered sex with women (I live in the Bay Area and know a lot of lesbians an bi women) the thought of genital contact nauseates me. That shouldn’t happen if I were bi. Some have insisted that I’m bisexual because I have experienced the breast fetish but that makes no sense to me given my lack of interest in women. I just can’t relate. I had never understood why I could be so uninterested in actual women and yet experience the breast fetish until I learned about this sociological theory that the breast fetish is learned. Other women have told me the same thing when I discussed this with them.
While we have cultural patterns there can be — and always are — individual differences. Some women who are focused on comparing themselves with other women and see other women as competition are unlikely to experience the breast fetish. I don’t when I’m in that mode. Women who get angry over women being objectified also aren’t aroused because they are distracted. Other things I’m unaware of could also explain why some women don’t experience the fetish. I mostly experienced the fetish when I was younger and wasn’t in the mode of comparing myself or feeling angry about objectification. In fact, I rarely experience it anymore.
And there actually is evidence that straight men can learn to get aroused by penises. A lot of porn these days has men climaxing outside of a woman. As men come to associate their own orgasm with seeing penises this way, they start to get aroused by penises, themselves.
Why don’t gay men find breasts erotic by learning to do so? Women’s bodies are responsive to EVERY sex signal they see — including bonobos (an ape species) having sex — while men’s bodies are not. Perhaps to protect vaginas from harm thru lubrication. And breasts have become a very strong sex signal in our culture (by being focused on obsessed about, etc). So it’s no surprise that women respond to them.
For men this flexibility doesn’t come so easily. They don’t respond to EVERY sex signal they see. Monkeys having sex? No response. Yet, straight men can come to associate VISUAL images of the penis with orgasm through conditioning (associating penis and orgasm). I guess gay men never come to associate breasts with orgasm.
On your attraction to penises all I can say is that culture creates social patterns but it doesn’t determine everyone’s personalities or ways of seeing. In addition to cultural influences we have individual personalities and different people also have different types of social interactions. That’s why you find large cultural patterns with individual variations.
I once had a discussion with a man on why men don’t tend to find vaginas all that sexually exciting. He loved breasts but not vaginas. (Just like women are more interested in breasts than vaginas.) But vaginas aren’t searched for very much on the web – relative to other sorts of sexual searches – despite the fact that vaginas are more inherently sexual than breasts are. (Vagina is the true equivalent of penis. Breasts are not.) So men tend not to be as interested in vaginas as breasts and women don’t tend to be as interested in vaginas or penises as breasts. This man and I wondered if maybe it’s because penis and vagina both seem more like organs, and organs are like, gross.
Finally, sexualization takes more than mere covering. Breasts are not only covered, they are also labeled as highly sexual and obsessed over. The camera follows them around and lingers on them. More than any other part of the body. Nothing is more sexually labeled or sexually obsessed over. No wonder even women develop the fetish.
Finally, where the breast fetish isn’t in effect people still have plenty of sex and do just fine. But where men become visual and learn the fetish, the breast fetish can actually harm sexuality and relationship among men and women. See this post for example:
Does Sexual Objectification Lead to Bad Sex?
http://broadblogs.com/2011/07/27/does-sexual-objectification-lead-to-bad-sex/
The common sense view is that human behavior is biological. I’m trying to get people to think outside the box. If you’re not interested in doing that, that’s fine with me. It’s not important to me to convince you of anything. So if you still don’t agree, fine. People can hear the evidence and make up their own minds.
It’s way past my bedtime.
It is almost a certainty in everyone’s mind that men are fascinated about breast. Thanks for bringing this topic up and telling me about this fascination in a different angle. I personally know a few guys that they don’t look for breasts and focus on other parts of women body. It is surprising to know that men will lose interest in breast if they are overexposed to porn. It is pretty interesting that women are attracted to female breast, just like men. I agree that this might be due to the fact that women is often regarded as sexual objects, instead of men. Therefore, both gender will be more likely to link women to sex.
I really love this post. I hadn’t ever really thought about how society affects how people can become sexually aroused. Psychologically, it makes perfect sense how society would effect what we see as arousing and what we don’t. It is natural to want what you don’t or can’t have. Therefore, people want to see what is covered or hidden from sight. Because these things are hidden and concealed, they are linked with promiscuity and seen as arrousing. This isn’t really a topic I had thought of before and I can see how one would argue and think that these attractions are natural since they are all people have known from their culture. Following the example of Britain, when something is common it is no longer special. If someone was aroused by pavement then they would always be aroused which is completely impractical. They would learn to suppress that arousal and eventually, it would go away through generations. The more common things become, they less special or arousing they would become. I completely agree with your view on this topic. Thank you for posting this.
I really like what you said in your blog about the picture you saw where your grandma was showing her ankle and to them that was sexy. I find that very curious because to our modern day men and women it is very unusual to see women all covered up. Now a days we see women in little booty shorts and tight tank tops which is what is attractive. The other day me and my boyfriend went to the mall and I was looking for some clothes for the summer and my boyfriend was so set in getting this tiny piece of clothing that had my butt-cheeks hanging out and he got upset because I didn’t want to wear them because I didn’t feel comfortable in them and he said that that’s what every girl wears so that experience made me think about how women are always showing skin to look attractive and men want other things to look at since he was not happy with the clothes I wear.
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