I Wish Women Saw Me As A Sex Object

Objectification side-by-side

In the video that this still illustrates, the girl comes across as sexy. The guy comes across as weird.

By Eric U

As a man I was once oblivious to my image, as if it didn’t matter. When viewing porn or having sex it was all about how the woman looked and whether I was giving her pleasure.

But then I started working out, in part, to be seen as sexy, to make women stop and stare and talk to me.

I did attain the sexy, fit look, with abs and muscles. But women never came “hootin and hollerin.”

So I started searching for what turns women on. Everything said they liked “broad shoulders, forearms, back muscles.” Yet it wasn’t working.

So I googled what type of porn women watch and found things like this: “Straight but masterbate to the thought of lesbian!”

I came across lesbian porn and found I was a lot more turned on by this than the straight porn. 

I am in a relationship and our sex is great — in fact i love him very much. I just do not understand why it is women on women that turn me on when I masturbate. 

Is anyone like this? Please help.

She got responses like this:

  • I experience the same thing. In a video i observe and enjoy watching the female more than male/his parts… i used to wonder if i’m a lesbian.
  • I am the same way. I still love my boyfriend and enjoy our sex life, but at the same time, let’s be honest, penises are a little ugly to look at. haha.
  • I was feeling the same way as you! I was feeling kinda weird about being aroused by other women, but I’m reassured now. 

It goes on…

Straight women talking about how hot they found women, how disgusting the male body was, how they masturbate by looking at women with women. Yet how romance with a woman was a turn off.

This was both confusing and damaging to me as a male.

I have spent an enormous amount of time trying to figure out if this is true. I stopped working out because I felt so disgusted that no woman would desire me that way. One day I even thought about sex with a cross-dressing man, just to experience his desire in looking at me.

What got me back on track was finding out that straight women also like male-on-male porn. That gave me some hope and I was joyful and happy again.

But after months it hit me again. Why do women have it so easy? Why can’t a man’s body, alone, make a woman chase a man into the bedroom and give her pleasure?

Back to square one, I am a little depressed, a little envious of women since my gender seems to have little to no affect on women’s desire. I haven’t worked out in 3 weeks, I feel lost in a world which I had once thought I understood: the world of sex.

This all leads me to wonder what women are really doing with men sexually, if we are not their sex objects?

This is an edited question that a young man who called himself “Eric U” asked me. He’s not the first to approach me with this concern. And from reading The Good Men Project, I get the sense that many men don’t feel attractive and wonder why – or if – women are attracted to them.

Women do find men attractive, but they don’t really masturbate to nude images of them — or get turned on in that way. I will be writing a series on this topic, addressing these questions.

Thoughts?

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About BroadBlogs

I have a Ph.D. from UCLA in sociology (emphasis: gender, social psych). I currently teach sociology and women's studies at Foothill College in Los Altos Hills, CA. I have also lectured at San Jose State. And I have blogged for Feminispire, Ms. Magazine, The Good Men Project and Daily Kos. Also been picked up by The Alternet.

Posted on May 4, 2015, in body image, men, objectification, psychology, sex and sexuality, women and tagged , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 127 Comments.

  1. Simple. Women are more fulfilled when their emotional needs are met. Men generally have a higher sex drive and being sexually attractive to women is not only important but essential to their ego. As a woman I can tell you, being seen as a sex object (piece of meat) is not a compliment. We’d rather have someone want to love us than simply F us. Lesbian porn probably turns on straight women because its purely sexual without emotional involvement. Watching porn with men is not the same because we want LOVE from men, not just sex. Its why women watch romantic comedies and soap operas…lol.

    • Kris,

      “Watching porn with men is not the same because we want LOVE from men, not just sex.”

      Wow! And we men don’t wish to feel loved and desired by women? You think all we want to do is just F you? Well, you are wrong. Most men want to feel loved and desired too. Sex is important to all human being, to varying degree of course.

      Is not being sexually attractive and desired equally important to a woman’s ego too? I know of no man who left his wife or girlfriend because she would not have sex daily with him. There are many men like myself who endured sexless marriages out of love and duty. Why? Because, men are taught from early on that you “suck it up.” So, many of us endure the worst in the name of family, love, duty…etc.

      So, you are wrong in your characterization of men. We too want love, affection, emotional involvement. And yes sex too!

      • We are the same, but we are different. Women love wine
        Men love wine
        Women love music
        Men love music
        Women love sleep
        Men love sleep
        Women love romance
        Men love romance
        Etc etc
        It all changes when sex and attraction is involved.
        Men have to work hard to get a woman’s attention that way, well average men. Women do notice men with money,power, and good jeans from jcpenny.

  2. I find women on women porn to be rather fake and it doesn’t do anything for me at all. And that’s coming from a bisexual woman.

    Man on man porn makes me hot under the collar. If I’m watching straight porn it’s pretty much James Deen (and he’s not for the light of heart as he does a lot of kinky stuff).

    Men aren’t my sex objects, but then neither are women. We’re all people and porn doesn’t represent sexual desires in a real life every day scenario.

    I get off on watching my male partner reach climax. I love watching him take pleasure in me. The way his breath catches when I ride him just so … but then that isn’t about his body, or his looks, or the outside package.

    I am drawn to him because of who he is. He is my soul mate, my other half, my love and my laughter. He’s the arms that hold me while I cry and the mouth that kisses me into bliss.

    I think the whole “porn culture” around men believing that women are attracted to sexuality needs to change. For me? I’m attracted to the person, their kindness, their quirks, their laughter, their intelligence and least of all… the way their body looks.

    Don’t try to be the porn ultimate when most women are looking for a man that compliments what they desire in a partner. Which isn’t just a good body. It’s the whole package.

    Ps. I chase my partner into the bedroom often.

  3. I thought this was an interesting read. This past weekend I was working with group mates from a class and the topic, oddly but naturally, turned to the topic of pornography and the need to see the opposite/same sex (we have been a close group since last quarter, so nothing is sacred).

    The female of the group stated that she didn’t need to see a female in the porn she would watch to be turned on, but a majority of the guys stated that they needed a man in their porn to help with the fantasy. The female thought it was very strange that most of the guys said they needed to see the man engaging in sexual acts with the woman, and that seeing lesbian porn could only work for so long. I found it interesting to listen in, and at times chime-in in the conversation.

    Lastly, I hope Eric U realizes that porn is just a fantasy. Sex, with a real person, is more than just the physical aspect — it is also the emotional, and spiritual as well. So, perhaps, in that way, it is not easier for women because men just focus on the physical aspect of sex.

    • “The female of the group stated that she didn’t need to see a female in the porn she would watch to be turned on, but a majority of the guys stated that they needed a man in their porn to help with the fantasy. The female thought it was very strange that most of the guys said they needed to see the man engaging in sexual acts with the woman”

      I can’t answer specifically for those men, but I can give my reason as a man why this could be likely that they said that. It has nothing to do with the man’s body visually but what it does. A man’s body is not a visual delight for men in porn. Straight men watch the woman’s body and lust and get turned on by it. the male body in porn is a “prop” for porn and men might prefer another man in it, because it can help men envision the sex act or doing it. When men watch straight porn, they envision they are that guy fucking the girl or that girl going down on him. If it’s girl solo or lesbian porn, a man can’t envision himself in that scene with the woman. That’s probably why many men are average looking, so average guys can not feel threated and male believe that the girl would have sex with them since the guy that’s banging them is average looking.

      Lesbian porn is a turn on for men from a purely visual, and hearing stand point. The sight and sounds of two or more beautiful women, it’s great visually and listening. Not that it isn’t great seeing or listening to straight porn as far as the woman goes, but there is the male visually that takes away from pure visual enjoyment. But despite that straight porn might be preferred, because not just the envisioning of sex like I said, but guy’s like to see “fucking”, the smacking and slapping and sounds or good fucking. Sure lesbians can use strap ons, but men rather see a man and woman fucking, especially since a man can envision him being that man fucking. It’s hard for a man to envision being a woman with a strap on fucking another woman.

    • “Lastly, I hope Eric U realizes that porn is just a fantasy. Sex, with a real person, is more than just the physical aspect — it is also the emotional, and spiritual as well. So, perhaps, in that way, it is not easier for women because men just focus on the physical aspect of sex.”

      Porn may be fantasy, but it;s basis should be rooted from reality to some extent. I’m sexually attracted to women, therefore, I notice, fancy, check out pretty girls I see and go on dates, enjoy the eye candy that women are to me and find their bodies sexy and a turn on. Logically since I explained all this, it’s women and their bodies since I and straight men are attracted to women, we look at, enjoy looking at and are turned on by women’s bodies in porn. We are not attracted to men, therefore, men don’t provoke a turn on and we don’t get visual arousal or even enjoyment looking at men’s bodies in straight porn. Like I said, it’s simply a “prop” and it’s there to see fucking and to envision yourself as that guy and not a body to be turned on or desire. It’s the female body paid attention to and lusted after.

      If these women are straight, there shouldn’t be such a visual delight or turn on and I’d think it wouldn’t be a turn on and boring. Go figure, just a man who thinks logically, in what should be logical but not. For whatever reason, men’s actions and behavior seems to follow more along a logical line, compared to some women. Some women’s actions and behavior seem to be contradictions to what they are or identified for

    • “Sex, with a real person, is more than just the physical aspect — it is also the emotional, and spiritual as well.”

      This is rather interesting because Georgia did a piece a while back where the majority of women thought holding hands was more intimate than intercourse. So, apparently, sex has little to do with the emotional, spiritual etc…as you assert.

      On a personal level, I tend to agree with you in my view of sex. I have never engaged in casual sex. Nor do I have any desire though I do have a high libido and sex drive.

      • That’s true. A lot of women — probably the majority of Women who responded to that blog post (And I did ask for people who disagreed with me to comment) — did say they found handholding more intimate than sex. But that didn’t mean that they would be more open to casual sex than casual handholding. As I realized later, those are two different issues. In fact, Heta was one of the women who said she found handholding more intimate. And yet in her comment on this post she says she thinks women need intimacy to enjoy sex.

  4. Yep. Today in a thread someone posted a thread of a man in a speedo: he was in reasonably good shape, not too bad looking, yet most of the responses were expressing disgust or derision, from both men and women. It seemed like he’d committed a social faux pas because men aren’t supposed to show off skin, except maybe if they have ripped abs and pecs. I too thought it weird how straight women said they preferred the female body, but when you realise how women are sexualised, and men and male sexuality either mocked or relegated to a niche thing or celebrated mostly in the LGBT community, you can understand why. What if women were presented thought of that way? That nobody was interested in them physically, even the gender that was supposed to? How would they feel? What would we think if a straight man said, ‘ew, naked women, I’d rather see naked men!’ We’d question his sexuality, yet a straight woman can say that and nobody questions it? Just goes to show the extent of social conditioning. Women sexualised and men de-sexualised, which not only objectifies women but makes some men feel undesirable. I think for a start changing perceptions through advertising, portrayals in film etc would redress things, since things are usually shown from a male POV. A female body with curves is representative of sexuality – which is really male desire. There is nothing strange or unnatural at all about presenting the male body in a sexually alluring manner – it’s certainly done a lot more in the gay community – yet I feel some men would feel threatened if that were the case.

  5. Yesterday I was working especially hard to prep the orchard. It was windy and I was exhausted from digging–so tired I could barely move. Near the end of the day, my sweetie came by and started picking up the tools. It wasn’t his job. Lord knows, he’d been busy all day, too. Still, that was it–he was considerate and helpful to me. I wanted him, right then. Put that in porn? I don’t think so.

    • That’s the point though. You wanted him and it was THAT, that was the reason for wanting him, not his body visually in and of itself. Guy’s appreciate being desired, loved, respected for their many attributes, but it’s great to be lusted directly for out bodies to and lusted for and knowing our desirable bodies provoked the response. It’s such a turn on to be wanted for your body too

      • I suppose, though I think I’d rather be wanted because of who I am. I’d rather want someone because they are loving, considerate and funny. Perhaps, this is what comes of age–we’re in the 50s to 60s range and all that body lust seems frivolous at this point.

    • “Perhaps, this is what comes of age–we’re in the 50s to 60s range and all that body lust seems frivolous at this point.”

      But why? Just because you are 50-60? Why stop lusting after him just because of your age? I don’t get that. What is so frivolous about it?

      • It’s the totality of him that I find appealing. Not that I don’t still respond to his body, for find it attractive, but it’s all the richer for the rest of him that goes with it. I can accept him, and love him, physically and emotionally without the trappings. It’s not what he wears, or any particular part of him. The original article was about sex objects. The sex object status hopefully becomes less of a hook as the relationship matures.

  6. I don’t doubt his experience, but at the same time I don’t know what to tell him – I have always found the male body desirable. All body types, too – I’m not picky. My favorite type of porn is a guy masturbating and ejaculating.

    I think women are beautiful and I like looking at them but seeing a hot woman in person or in porn does absolutely nothing for me sexually.

    I cannot be the only woman like me in existence.

  7. Women are turned on by women in porn because of societal conditioning to view the female body as sexy and to objectify it (and themselves) and to see the male body as purely as serving a function. I believe this is totally wrong and horribly damaging to both men and women. Women are turned on by same-sex porn (and opposite sex porn) only if the parties involved seem to deeply desire each other. Women get turned on by emotional connection.

    I don’t think penises are ugly at all. I think the male body is beautiful in its own masculine way.

    Confidence and taking care of yourself are a big deal to women. That doesn’t necessarily mean wash-board abs. It’s more about your attitude. I think women really do appreciate hot male bodies if they make an actual emotional connection with a real male.

    • “That doesn’t necessarily mean wash-board abs. It’s more about your attitude. I think women really do appreciate hot male bodies if they make an actual emotional connection with a real male.”

      Because men’s bodies are not sexually attractive enough to spur attraction and arousal without the emotional connection. You hear it’s because women are less visual and men’s aren’t sexualized, yet that doesn’t stop women from being very visual towards other women’s bodies and turned on by women’s bodies. And also you can say society conditions women to view women as sexy. Yet, I would bet $1,000 that in a parallel universe, hypothetically speaking. If things were flipped upside down and men’s bodies were sexuaized and women not or not like men. So a reverse of things on this earth and society.

      And say men were sexualized and women not as much. Sure there would probably be much much less homophobia from men and men would probably look at men’s bodies more or be more appreciate of male body aesthetics without feeling uncomfortable. But with all that said, I guarentee most straight men would still prefer straight or lesbian porn, and most men would still not be interested in gay porn. Most straight men would still find women’s bodies more arousing, sexier, and visually via porn, etc be more turned on, visually stimular and find women’s bodies more attractive. Men would still be more drawn to women’s bodies not just in person but on screen and from porn. So saying all this it sounds like men are born more inherently visually attracted to women to not be so easily “conditioned” otherwise or all over the place arousal and visual wise? Women seem to be so fluid with their sexaulity with visual and arousal. Whereas, men apparently are more “straight” as in visually geared strictly to women and their bodies and the same seems to be so for gay men towards men’s bodies.

      • Men’s bodies ARE sexually attractive enough but it’s more about pheromones/smell combined with the emotional aspect for women than it is visual.

        However women can get easily turned OFF by things so it is still beneficial for man to have at least somewhat of a visually appealing body. It’s still important for attraction but not the MOST important, which I think is how men and women differ here.

        Everything else you said I 100% agree with.

      • Bob,

        “Because men’s bodies are not sexually attractive enough to spur attraction and arousal without the emotional connection.”

        This is simply not true!!! There are lots of men, though a small percentage of all men, who definitely spur arousal in women without any emotional connection…Is this not what hookups and casual sex all about?

        People need to really stop saying this nonsense about women. It simply is NOT true. How many women do you think would need an emotional connect to have sex with George Clooney,….? Women are more than willing to have sex with some men whom they have zero emotional connection.

    • “Women get turned on by emotional connection…”

      And how do you explain the high level of casual sex by an increasing numbers of women? Or the high levels of casual dating/sex today.

      What you are stating is contrary to statistics and reality..

      Also, I find you reference to a “real male” to be rather offensive. Just what is that anyway? is this just another way of saying women only find a few “real males?”

      • As we’ve discussed before, it’s not actually contrary to statistics. Yes, most women have tried casual sex. But most don’t do it on a regular basis. At least not after experimenting a bit. Only 11% of college students (there was no differentiation between male and female on this number) said they enjoyed casual hookups. But 70+% of both men and women said they preferred relationship sex. (I have the links to these in the post I wrote called “Hook up culture”)

  8. About the picture for comparison. It is NOT tit-for-tat. The female is posed quite differently. The male needs a comparable bathing suit, though not bikini top, of course. Now if it WERE an exact comparison, the woman would be topless. So you see, even the attempted comparison is flawed. Were I to look at the “hunk” of meat-man, then he would have to be dressed appropriately/inappropriately. Right? Speedo?

    • Yes and no at the same time.

      In a way your comment makes my point. And here’s how:

      Culturally it’s not tit for tat. We rarely see men dressed the way you described. How many billboards have you seen with sexy women in bikinis trying to draw your attention to the product? And how many billboards have you seen with sexy men in Speedo’s trying to draw your attention to the product

      We don’t sexualize men’s bodies the way we do women’s. And that’s largely why women don’t get as turned on.

      In tribal societies where women walk around topless all the time women aren’t sex objects.

      We don’t do anything to the male body that selectively hides in reveals, and create sexual tension by making people want to look at also making them feel like they shouldn’t look. We obsess over women’s bodies as a culture. The camera focuses in on women’s breasts and butts and pretty much ignores the male body. Guys comment on women’s breasts and butt both in conversation and in the media. All of this sexualizes the female body in a way that never happens with the male body. That’s the reason why women rarely, if ever, masturbate just by looking at a male nude. In fact, one study found that women tended to “Flatline” in terms of physical sexual response when looking at a nude male body. On the other hand, whenever she saw anything sexual, whether it was bonobos having sex, or men having sex, blood did rush to the vagina. But most women didn’t feel sexually aroused in their brains. Well none of them did with the bonobos. So it’s theorized that women’s bodies lubricate at any sign of sex, just for protection, whether they are mentally aroused or not.

      But because we are so used to sexualized bodies being meant for the male gaze, even when guys are in Speedo’s women often think it looks gay instead of hot. (Because they are seeig the sexy guys through a male gaze, instead of through a female gaze.) I’ll be posting more on this later.

  9. This was an interesting read. never knew that men could think in this way. But, again, watching porn is almost like fantasizing things..mostly unreal. One should not take it so seriously as to hamper her/his real life…

    • Yet porn is real for men. When men fantasize or watch porn, they’d like to bang that girl in the scene or have a threesome with two women or other kinks. So you can’t say that. Much of the purpose of men’s fantasies is to get turned on and aroused by something he can’t do because he’s in a relationship or not attractive enough to be with so and so hot woman. But it turns them on, because they’d love to do that sex fantasy in reallife. The question is why are women a part with fantasy and reality. Where does the turn on come from. I’m turned on, because whatever turns me on, therefore, I’d love to do it.

      • Yes, I agree to that. Even porn is a turn-on for women too. But what I’m trying to say, that, one’s sex life, irrespective of man or woman, doesn’t actually breathe on porn. Of course, exceptions are there…. 🙂

  10. Pornography should never be used as a criteria to identify someone’s preferences. From my personal experience, I have found that it is really difficult to predict the preferences of the fairer sex. You cannot find it out at a glance, you have to work hard for deciphering this puzzle. I have known girls who do not bother about the physical appearance, and then there are others who get turned on by washboard abs. As a naive, I can say that there is no sure-shot list of turn ons for any gender. Even a not-so-athletic guy with a good sense of humor can attract girls. 😉

    • heresss johnnny

      What’s hidden attracts more huh. Then I think us men need to just walk around with our penises out erect, to level the playing field. I wonder if down the line a naked revolution will happen.

      PS
      I saw a naked man in the locker room one day and it was shocking to see that in real life, I can’t even describe it I wasn’t disgusted or attracted just shocked and I think if most women walked into a locker room full of naked men they found attractive, they would be a little turned on or alot. What do you women think?

      • I suspect that the hiddeness is necessary but not sufficient.

        In cultures where women’s hair is hidden, Guys become excited by that. I have a student who lived in Iran a few years after the revolution, During a time when women were expected to Cover their hair completely. Every now and then she would let a little of her hair show and the men would go wild. I have a picture of a grandmother who let her ankles show in a provocative move. When I saw this picture I didn’t understand what was happening at all. And then it was explained to me.

        But when women walk around with her ankles uncovered and their hair uncovered, Or their breasts uncovered, none of it is any big deal. We seem to need a combination of three things for a body part to be seen as arousing:

        . Selectively hidden and revealed — creating tension
        . Being told that something is hidden because it is so sexual, But don’t look at it — creating tension
        . A cultural obsession over it. The camera following the body part around, honing in on it. People talking incessantly about it

        None of these three things apply to the male penis.

      • Since you asked the question to women, I am not eligible to answer. However, I agree with what Georgia answered. 🙂

  11. Interesting perspective! We seldom hear how men feel about their bodies. And how some men, like some women, may want to feel the buzz that comes from being seen as a sex object.

    Me, personally, it’s nice to look at buffed men running down the street with their shirts off, I suppose, but at the end of the day, the eyes have it- I’m an “eyes” woman, much like some guys are about the legs or another body part that they like. Also, the couple of times I’ve dated men who’ve been exceptionally fit and worked on it they’ve usually expected the same from me, which stresses me out too much.

  12. We live in a society that glamorizes women’s bodies almost everywhere. We see it on television, billboards and magazines. We just got so used to seeing women as sex objects oppose to men. Since today women in ads tend to have fewer clothes and show more skin this arouses men because it leaves it to their imagination. Women have been for years deprived of enjoying sex because society slut shames them. Since they have not been allowed to have as much sex as guys they lose that feeling of wanting sex. Since it is okay for men to have as much sex as he wants, we are telling them that it is okay for them to feel arouse and enjoy as much sex as possible.

  13. Porn may not be the best source for this theory. Many women can enjoy different things that turn them on. Even if considered ‘unconventional,’ the male body is sought after by many too, whether in porn or in real life. A lot of people find others attractive, yet don’t ‘chase after’ them and simply appreciate. In this society, it seems men dominate their assertiveness when hitting on or asking a girl out. Even so, the hypersexualized body of a woman and completely overlooked male body brings about this question to begin with. No wonder a woman is more turned on by another woman rather than a male! It seems the media perpetuates this anyway.

  14. Naa…. We do it alright. A lot. And I mean, A LOT. It’s just something we don’t say out loud, cuz ‘good girls don’t’.

    Gay porn and Yaoi prove it. A whole genre dedicated to young girls who get off to naked men. Without women. Theres a whole bunch of female friends I had in school who loved going to inter-school events just to gape at boys. They inspect, scrutinize, admire and discuss. In my friend’s words, who believes men are far more drool-worthy, “Their body is a work of art, beauty and perfection. I can get forever lost in the contours…”

    But then its ‘wrong’ for a girl to desire. She is only to be desired. She cannot want to drag and guy on to bed, pin him down and mm mm… One of the main reasons, I believe women watch yaoi, so they can relate to the seme (the pitcher)

    • Well, do girls masturbate to Yaoi? And is the audience for gay porn mostly gay men or women?

      In a subsequent comment, after I told Eric that women do find men sexy, he complained that yes, they do but they don’t get aroused by seeing a naked man.

      And when women were hooked up to something that measured blood flow to the genitals, a naked man pretty much made them flat line. It was a small sample, but all of them flatlined. That doesn’t mean that some don’t. Maybe you do masturbate to naked men.

      But if you look cross culturally you find that the only types of things that create a super-sexualize reaction — and by that I mean something that helps people to masturbate — it is where the body is selectively hidden and revealed, Creating sexual tension. Where you are told that is super sexual so you shouldn’t look — which makes you want to look. And a cultural obsession over the sexy body part.

      Culturally, we do that with women — in spades. Whereas in cultures that don’t do that, the female body doesn’t treat the same effect, Whether that is in tribal societies or in much of modern Europe.

      And we certainly don’t do it with men.

      • It looks like more women watch it.
        https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090427124823AA1F4zy

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaoi_fandom

        “Most fans are teenage girls or young women. “

      • Sure. But do they masturbate to it?

      • I do ! Absolutely ! 😀 😀 And so do a lot of us young twenty-something girls…

        It might be a recent thing with women in Asian countries. Yaoi is an upcoming genre here and nowadays more and more girls proudly bear the name ‘Fujoshi’ (which means rotten girl) and read the taboo (yaoi). I guess West is yet to catch up….

        I mean, evolutionarily, we are supposed to be turned on by naked men, right? Since we formed a Yaoi fanbase community, we can pursue our fantasies in a safe environment and not feel ashamed.

        You may like to write an article about Yaoi… It will give a different and fresher perspective about female sexuality.

      • Well, evolutionarily there’s no reason for men to be attracted by nude women or for women to be attracted by nude men. In a lot of cultures no one is visual, And yet there is still an attraction to the opposite sex and a desire to have sex with them. So for instance, in tribal societies men don’t get aroused by looking at women’s breasts or butts. In a lot of European countries men don’t either. And in a study where women were hooked up to measure bloodflow, All of the women flatlined when looking at male nudity.

        The only Time I am aware of anyone being sexually aroused by nudity is where these three things are happening:

        . Some body part is being selectively hidden and revealed: creating sexual tension
        . That body part is defined as so sexually alluring that you want to look at it, but to do so is a no-no: creating more sexual tension
        . The culture obsesses over the body part. Cameras zero in on it. People in the culture talk about it a lot

        Is this achieved some way within the Yaoi genre? If not, what happens? How is the sexual tension achieved?

      • Well okay, maybe there is no evolutionary reason. But thats not stopping me sadly. I have a great aesthetic appreciation for the nude male body at any time of the day in any position. And it OFTEN turns sexual. I don’t know why. Maybe I’m just that horny?

        I have a reason why the survey might have failed. Naked men posed ‘sexily’ as seen in porn is different from that in Yaoi. It often gives off a sense of forcefulness, intimidation, dominance and aggression. Male sexiness is about being in control, etc etc. Or there is a stigma of gayness associated with wanting to receive pleasure.

        In Yaoi, the uke (the “catchers”) are vulnerable, inviting, sensitive and submissive (well, sort of). You even wrote an article about men trying to appear sexy, but appearing gay instead. Well, thats still made to look sexy in Yaoi.

        About Yaoi, the sexual tension is created in seeing their bodies as they get aroused. Or them wanting it really badly. Their bodily reactions, their voices. Watching the nude male body wanting pleasure or climaxing.

        Thats about the climax, but for some reason, perhaps not evolution, naked hot men squatting on a subway is exciting as well… Does that answer Eric U?

      • No need to apologize for finding the male body erotic. Yay you!

        But you see the way culture affects things in this response. Through the subculture you are describing males are defined as sexy. The same type of male isn’t defined as sexy in American culture.

        And it sounds like the guys are just standing there, they are doing something sexual, which women seem to find more arousing then just standing there. So some women do use gay porn to help them climax. But it’s not the norm.

        Plus, everyone has a different mix of biology, culture and social interactions, which create different kinds of people, so you end up with big social patterns – which are what I have described – and individual variations, like you. Although there may be a cultural variation among those who are into the genre you described.

    • You hit the nail on the head, Kimberley. Males wanting to receive pleasure. Since men are seen as the sexual aggressors, and women the OBJECTS of that, a man wanting to be a sexual object is seen as sub/gay, including wanting to be pleasured. Even when men do pose ‘sexually’ it’s more as the dominator. Why are some body parts almost exclusively associated with women as being ‘sexy’? Like legs, for instance. It’s not like only women have legs! Just look at fashion and how it fetishizes it. I do think there’s some basis to it, but female appreciation for the male body was almost been stifled by peer pressure.

      I’m not familiar with Yaoi, but the characters seem kind of femme, which is an arena where males can express that side of themselves.

  15. Interesting post of how men want themselves to be considered as sex object. I think most of women need love to feel complete and thats why naked men doesn’t arouse all women. Men as compared are more sex driven.

    • So, you would have me truly believe that a woman needs to feel love to be sexual? You must be kidding me.

      I am not sure of what you mean by complete. But, there are many women who engage in sex with men whom they could care less about other than the sex. So, in these circumstances, love has nothing to do with anything.

      • I am talking to most of the women not all..exception cases are there always and even I have seen such women. But A woman like me wouldn’t get aroused by naked pictures of a man. But, when question was asked to my male friends, almost everyone said they do get aroused by them.

      • Sex for all of us mostly really happens in the brain, but maybe for social reasons, or physiological reasons, it’s more connected to the emotional state for women. Still, arousal doesn’t have to be visual, of course.

  16. I have some old ads for something which show a bare-chested worker with his tool belt. He is working on something, but the handle of his hammer is in front, hanging down. Blatant. Outrageous. And pretty stupid. What kind of worker would be able to do work this way. It was an ad for pure sex. But dumb. I used to collect ads, and had them foldered into 14 categories according to appeals. You can just see which folders had the most cut-out ads. S-E-X sells. Thanks for this great posting and the comments that have followed.

    • You just hardly ever see ads like that. I’ve never seen one. And I’m wondering if it was meant as a joke or to be sexy? Or both? Sometimes ads with sexy guys are clearly meant to be sexy, and I will be posting on that soon.

  17. Hmmm. I learned something new today. I’m a lesbian trapped in a man’s body. lol

  18. “Men’s bodies ARE sexually attractive enough but it’s more about pheromones/smell combined with the emotional aspect for women than it is visual.”

    But yet, women don’t need phermones to get turned on by women with lesbian porn. I hate asking this, as I’m not tying to trivialize women, but what the hell makes women straight. Like to me in my male mind, there are many things that are a part of sexual attraction, like chemistry, personality, sounds, smells, etc. But as a guy a huge, huge part is the visual, physical, afterall, that’s what differentiates men and women is anatomy and physical features. I like women who are femine and what not.

    But if you ask me to choose a “masculine” manlyish acting woman vs an effeminate, girly sounding man, I’m still going with the woman of course, because my eyes like women’s bodies and features, and not men’s. Though I prefer women to sound like women too. Meaning, I don’t want to be with a woman who has a deep manly sounding voice. I love women’s feminine, higher voices and grace,,smell, visual and tactile essence from women.

    So why visually liking women’s bodies just as much as men’s bodies through other ads or porn, etc, but deciding they visually like men’s bodies more in person? What’s the difference. I use food as a metaphor a lot because it’s the easiest for me. But it’s like someone saying “oh I don’t like hamburgers, they don’t look or smell appetizing, and would never want one or desire it.” Yet, a hardee’s commercial comes on showing burgers and this very same person gets hungry and you see they want that burger. And then that person realizes you noticed them being hungry for that burger on tv even though they said they don’t like burgers.

    That person rationalizes by saying, how it’s presented on tv makes them want one, but they don’t want to eat or like burgers in reallife, lol. Call me a stupid man and maybe I’m blunt and too straight foward, but What the Fuck is the difference? To me nothing. I like burgers, I eat them in reallife, I see a juicy burger on tv, it makes me hungry and provokes the desire to have that,. I’m attracted to men and love their bodies, women turn me on in person and love their bodies so naturally, that doesn’t stop the lust that can be created saying the same hot women naked on tv or computer.

    There is a difference from in person compared to on screen, but visually, well it’s the same pretty much. It’s not like television or the computer lens is like a circus mirror where images coming through are distorted. Things are pretty much the same as in reallife. I might look 10 lbs heavier on tv, but my body aesthetically is pretty much the same. Georgia, the broadblogs blogger can answer this to if she’d like to.

  19. I believe that women are more turned on by lesbian fantasies than straight fantasies due to the fact that there is a perceived image in society that men are often more “selfish” during session. It is often the case where the man gets satisfied while the woman is often left hanging. This make lesbian fantasies more enticing to women, than straight fantasies.

  20. “Women do find men attractive,…….”

    Only a small percentage of men do women find attractive……

    Even you have agreed that most women find most men unattractive.

    This man is simply experiencing what the vast majority of men experience. We are not viewed as desirable, attractive, or lovable by most women. So, we do all these things like going to the gym, buying fancy cars/toys, and other crazy things (PUA methods) to get women’s attention. It is so so very sad. And we do these things not to get “hot” women but average women….All in pursuit of happiness. Happiness that for most men is rather elusive.

    I know you are going to say most men do eventually find someone blah blah blah. So, what? Just because a man finds a woman (more like she choose him) does not mean said woman finds him attractive and/or sexually desirable.

    • Most women don’t find most men sexually attractive. That’s true. But women have different tastes. We don’t all like the same type. I’ve been crazy about guys where my friends can’t figure out why I’m attracted to them. And I often can’t figure out why women are attracted to the guys they find attractive. So all men will find some women who find them attractive. And in fact, almost all guys get married.

  21. Well, evolutionarily there’s no reason for men to be attracted by nude women or for women to be attracted by nude men. In a lot of cultures no one is visual, And yet there is still an attraction to the opposite sex and a desire to have sex with them. So for instance, in tribal societies men don’t get aroused by looking at women’s breasts or butts. In a lot of European countries men don’t either. And in a study where women were hooked up to measure bloodflow, All of the women flatlined when looking at male nudity.

    Well tribal societies are basic and animal like. But human beings aren;t animals, so I can see how visual arousal would be something that humans have for each other even if bodies aren’t fetishsized. If bodies are sexually attractive, but naked commonly thus usually non sexual. Well then most often people will be naked without causing lust. But I’m sure there are times when a couple or man and woman in the culture wanting to be intimate, may move or do something in a suggestive way or dance to get each others attention which could spark a visual trigger. I mean what’s the trigger then and what decides when and why tribal people want to get down to sex? Are they monkeys and just smell phermones coming out of their bodies and do some mating call like an animal and then the man decides to mount the woman after that? There has to be some visual trigger at some point too, otherwise, it suggests people in tribal cultures operate no differently that animals. True there is a lot of primal background with humans, but many other things beyond it too.

    • Well pretty much no women experience a visual stimulus, and yet they still desire sex with men. So that’s how.

      • I wouldn’t say ‘pretty much no women’. I can’t say how many, but I think a significant percentage do, especially if it’s to their partner.

      • I’m guessing that you are a man who assumes that women experienced men similarly to the way men experience women. Women definitely get turned on by their partners, but just looking at his body isn’t likely to get her aroused. It’s a little bit like a man’s perspective when he has been in a relationship with the same woman for a long time. Couples in their 80s often still enjoy sex, And they aren’t getting turned on by visual.

      • Yeah they do, they still find men’s bodies sexy and can be aroused by men’s bodies. Not just a man naked that they don’t know, but the aesthetics can stand out in the back of her mind and then when knowing him a bit and seeing his personality, she can then lust for that body she already found sexy. So the body can still be a trigger with the other triggers or work together with personality together for arousal. Tribal women, I don’t know what stirs or the desire when they have no body motivation for them. Women can be motivated to know a man and set up sexual attraction by his looks and body, and talking to him then brings out the attraction forward. That is a visual stimulus as it peaks interest in having a sexual relation with the man if he checks the boxes when the talks to him, but she might not even talk to him without the physical, body attractivness that she finds out or that peaks her interest.

        Tribal woman don’t even have that motivation since the men are just about naked all the time and women are naked, so I don’t know what the trigger is then if it’s not visual. There still has to be visual interest in each others body and finding the others sexually attractive and arousal can help in certain moments, though usually things aren’t sexual.

      • The way a woman experiences the body of a man she loves is probably comparable to the way a man experiences the body of a woman she loves IF he has been in a relationship with her for a few years. To make the comparison, he will probably get much more easily aroused by seen the breasts of some woman he has never met before in porn. A lot of guys tell me that after they have been with the same woman for a long time based up getting aroused by her breasts and butt. Although they can still really appreciate how beautiful she is. But he still might be a bit more aroused by his partner’s body — than she is toward his — simply because the female body is more eroticized in our culture.

  22. Are you sure ALL the women ‘flatlined’? I thought they were aroused, but less so. I think that study is pretty weird, it compared a naked man strolling to a woman doing calisthenics? On what planet is this science? Do they know anything about the experimental method? I don’t think it proves much, since social conditioning comes into things.

    I do think many women are turned on by naked men, some might not as freely admit it because it’s seen as prudish. Like you’ve said many times, it’s because the male form is not sexualised or de-sexualised, and the female form is sexualised. Think of the way sensuality is equated with the female form: a sinuous, curvaceous woman in tight-clothes dancing. Male sensuality has been ignored and relegated to the gay male sphere. Obviously, males can be sensual and objects of erotic desire: not just for gay men but for some women. I’m mostly straight but when men are portrayed in this fashion, I admit I find it arousing. But I still prefer women.

    I agree in our natural state nudity probably does a lot less for us, but I’m not sure the visual plays NO component. After I hit puberty naked women were very arousing to me; sure, it’s cultural, but I mean before that I never found nudity arousing, just funny. I do agree women are probably a bit less directly visually aroused. I think the fact many are grossed out by the penis or men in speedos is telling. The older generation would not have complaints about that. Or even short shorts. In the 70s-80s men wore really short shorts and women weren’t ‘grossed out.’

    I see no logical reason why a straight woman would be turned on by women and NOT men, unless it was conditioned. I mean I see no reason why it would naturally be so. I’ve heard some women online say they had to ‘re-wire’ their brains to see men erotically, the same way as they did women. What is really that different about the male and female nude body? Women are curvier, have breasts, men tend to be hairier but many are not, so why the big difference? The associations, I think. Women find it arousing because they can imagine themselves as such…

    • “Are you sure ALL the women ‘flatlined’? I thought they were aroused, but less so.”

      I’ve seen the study described both ways. From what I read I think the latter is more accurate. It probably means relatively flat lined.

      Most of the human experience is symbolic, socialized. That includes sexuality. You actually have to learn to be visual.

      In societies where the female body is not sexualized, no one sees it as especially sexual. Tribal men, or even many European man, don’t get aroused just by looking at a naked female body, because nudity is more okay and excepted in those cultures. It’s more of an every day/mundane experience.

      The male body is experienced the same way in most other societies. Not sexualized. So that probably explains the data.

      • Yeah i think articles are often inaccurate or misleading in how they describe. Anyway, like I said, I don’t take the study that seriously because of the reasons I mentioned. I’d like to have a look at the videos, what male model that was used, the context. I do agree simply looking at a nude isn’t even necessarily sexual: if that were the case in our natural state men would be constantly turned on…still from personal experience I do sense there’s an element of that. I wouldn’t say the female body – and male body – isn’t sexualised at all. With some primate species there are probably certain cues like inflamed/reddened buttocks, swollen breasts, which signal to the male the female ape or monkey is receptive and ready for sex and ovulating, which would make sense. In humans and species where the female is always ‘in heat’ I think the male would always find the female appealing. I do agree the visual element is exaggerated. I wouldn’t say modern European men don’t get aroused just by nakedness: I mean it’s not like they all walk around naked all the time in Europe, there certainly still IS an element of sexuality associated with nudity, just not to the extent of North America.

        Well, I think most societies have been influenced by modern attitudes towards male sexuality. We don’t really know much about certain traditional attitudes to the male form. I wouldn’t be surprised if in many tribal societies males are more sexualised. If females are attracted to certain characteristics, it would figure some cues – including visuals – would arouse them too.

      • It’s hard to say that because animals behave a certain way that that is how humans are because humans are almost entirely symbolic and how they experience their environment, whereas animals are almost entirely instinctual. So humans have a sex drive, but how that is exhibited from culture to culture.

  23. I could imagine both genders being bisexual in the natural state. I mean bisexuality is pretty widespread among apes. Also in many cultures. Why should humans be an exception? It’d be weird if human males were naturally mostly 100% straight (or gay), while bonobo males were flagrantly bisexual.

  24. I’m curious if they did a study where images of say, women who weren’t sexualised were presented. No shaving anything, makeup.etc. I think hairy legs, for instance, would probably signal a sense of ‘maleness’ and many men would be turned off by that. It’s created an artificial picture of Barbified ‘femininity.’

  25. “The way a woman experiences the body of a man she loves is probably comparable to the way a man experiences the body of a woman she loves IF he has been in a relationship with her for a few years. To make the comparison, he will probably get much more easily aroused by seen the breasts of some woman he has never met before in porn. A lot of guys tell me that after they have been with the same woman for a long time based up getting aroused by her breasts and butt. Although they can still really appreciate how beautiful she is. But he still might be a bit more aroused by his partner’s body — than she is toward his — simply because the female body is more eroticized in our culture.”

    Men still are aroused by their wives or girlfriends boobs and butts even after a long term relationship. Those body parts are sexy and sexually attractive and will always be arousing to men. The difference is men don’t have the charge when seeing or anticipating their woman naked, because they’ve seen their bodies naked many times. So there’s more of a charge toward a new woman’s body because he’s never seen it before and the anticipation and because a new woman’s body is taboo. BUT, men still have a visual stimulus with their long term woman’s body. If women experiences it the way a man does toward her in a long term relationship and she find men’s bodies sexy and his sexy, then it can provoke a visual stimulus and be arousing. So there still is that trigger.

    What’s the trigger for tribal people though and women if there isn’t a visual stimulus? It seems weird to not have a visual part that is part of the trigger since men and women are attracted to each others bodies, so there has to be potential arousing in seeing each others bodies in certain contexts. Aesthetics play a role in arousal too,, which is why boobs and butts are commonly sexually attractive compared to ears,even abs and stomach are sexier than ears. Boobs are beautiful, and feminine body parts so even if they are seen often, they will dull the straight up arousal of just seeing them. But men will always find them sexy body parts and be attracted to them, be quite visually, physically interested in them when in an seductive, sexual context.

    • I’ve heard different men say different things on this topic. Most who have voiced an opinion say that after they’ve been together for a while the body parts lose a lot of the arousal they had once held. It’s not a scientific sample. But it makes sense given what causes arousal, And the patterns of arousal you find in different cultures. The fact that when you can see something all the time it loses its ability to arouse.

      I just don’t think that most women get all that aroused by men’s bodies. Playgirl goes bankrupt, women “flatlining” when blood flow to the vagina is measured as a look at a naked man, and few women say they find the male body arousing.

      And maybe that’s why women so often talk about the importance of emotional connection. In my own experience it has never been visual arousal that has made me want to have sex with a man. I find my guy attractive but I’m not getting aroused by looking at his body. What sparks the desire to be sexual with him is the emotional connection I feel with him. A strong desire to be close and connect.

      Having never experienced visual arousal, and since many men don’t either, Whether they are tribal societies, in many European countries, or older people whose bodies are getting more wrinkled and droopier, it’s certainly a fact that you don’t need to have visual arousal. I can’t even imagine being visually aroused by my partner so I have a hard time seeing how you experience it

      • I actually saw a short film about a blind boy who fell in love with another boy. It made me wonder about gay blind people (I’m assuming they do exist), and what turns them on. Blind people still get aroused, and have sex.etc, so obviously they are not being visually aroused.

      • That’s right. And a lot of people aren’t visual: pretty much all women, tribal men and a lot of European men who live, or have lived, in areas where nudity is no big deal. You actually have to learn to be visual. It’s not natural.

  26. Another thing we see by this is how different the genders are attracted to each other. Men are basically and foremost sexually attracted to women so when they realize that women aren’t sexually attracted to men the same way then they feel that they aren’t attracted to them at all. Women on the other hand they are not sexually turned on by males body so when they realize that the men are turned on by their body they feel like objects.

    • Women are sexually attracted to men. They aren’t sexually aroused by a man’s body (rarely, anyway). But it’s an interesting thought. It’s a little uncomfortable to feel like you’re just a thing.

      • Women can act like men, men can act like women. You know the biggest differentiation and indicator men and women have of telling the difference between man and women is visual right? Differently body parts and faces, and find both pleasing, sexually attractive and if such parts are sexually attractive and sexy, they both have the capacity to be turned on by each others bodies visually and are. Men much easier and direct, and simply by nudity and sex. But women can be turned on by men’s bodies and not just because she loves him or emotionally attracted. But the aesthetics of his body and sexually attractive features playing a role with the emotional to it. And you can’t say its simply the emotional element itself that sparks the arousal to his body, because then that would mean his body no matter how it looked could turn her on, because the primary is her emotional attraction. That’s not necessarily and it’s split. Some women they are aroused and the body doesn’t make much a difference or no matter the body.

        But there are more women than you think who can lose lust in their men when their men stop taking care of their bodies and get fat or out of shape. And in the opposite, when their man maybe gets in shape and is motivated, a lust for his body can be sparked back up again. I know plenty of girls where, the man’s personality is happy, but they aren’t attracted to fat men. If it’s emotional that’s the stimuli than that shouldn;t matter right? Why would their be sexual preferences for a man’s body? Because women find certain bodies sexually attractive or more so than others. That also means then that one body would be a “visual barrier” to the visual stimuli and turn on to her mans body. I though visual stiumli that didn’t exist from most women? You said women see men’s bodies the way men in relationships see women’s bodies. Well men in relationships are still turned on by their woman’s body visually, it’s just not in an everyday simply nude way, but context or her looking sexy, he’s horny for whatever reason and in the mood, she’s wearing something or moving in a way that accentuates her sexy body that he already and always found sexy, thus sparking in that context.

      • Men aren’t naturally visual. They learn to be in many cultures. Women don’t learn to be in any cultures — other than learning to find the female body attractive. Which evidences how the visual is learned.

  27. Kind of weird to see my post up lol, but honored. I have come with reflection since the last post, men and women are just wired differently, we are all we have. If a animal looked at a man or woman all they would see is a human, they wouldnt think men or women are sexy. Point is a man and a woman are it, no other being attracts us except the two genders.

    Alot of woman is attracted to a man with confidence and beauty, they (hetero) love masculinity deep voices, edgy, breaking the rules, rough etc. Women as a majority nurture, so alot of women want the opposite, which is a man, it’s what their taught and what a majority want biologically.

    If women wanted men like how men wanted women, the world would be 17billion. I would like to have something to attract a woman, but for us men it’s a story to attract a woman, for women to attract men majority wise its a look Now time to read the article.

    • I’m glad that you have come to some peace on the issue. Since I wrote a number of posts responding to you I ended up needing a break — since I blog broadly — to put this post up.

      I will say that women can really like sensitive men, too. I do. Whether or not they are super-masculine, men are still attractive — even if their bodies aren’t actually arousing.

      But another point is that well men find women really attractive a lot of women feel inadequate. About 80% have poor body image, And I can get really distracting. I will write more about this in a post that will come out in a couple of weeks. I’d be interested in your thoughts — and I’ll be quoting you again at the top.

      You should check out all of the comments on this post. Quite a lot of them!

  28. I know girls who been in relationships for like 5 years and they still not only find their men sexy, and their men’s bodies sexy. But they still get aroued by their men’s bodies looking at when their man wheres a form fitting shirt or dressing the way she likes or particularly sexy dressed and she can’t wait to make love to him later. I know women aren’t visual like men, but I think women still have a visual stimuli element for men. Women get turned on touching their men’s bodies, and I heard tactile element is a turn on for women, which I’ve said the two with visual and tactile go together pretty much.

    • Don’t know if we mean the same thing by aroused. Nothing in our culture works to make the male body arousing. But there are ideocentricities leading to bell curves to these things.

  29. In cultures where women’s hair is hidden, Guys become excited by that. I have a student who lived in Iran a few years after the revolution, During a time when women were expected to Cover their hair completely.

    that’s because women’s bodies are sexually attractive and in that culture women were so covered up, men were dying to see anybody parts exposed. Therefore any part even simply ankles or hair could turn men on. But that does not mean all body parts are arousing, because if men flipped with seeing hair, I guarentee they’d flip and be even more turned on by breasts or butts. And not because it’s simply hidden, but they are more sexually attractive body parts. It’s even scientific I believe, as in visual in general, whether art, etc. People are drawn to curves and enamored and curves are pleasing to out eyes. That’s why objects are curved, cars are curved, a rounded line is more interesting to the eyes and than straight lines. There has to be something biological.

    It’s the reason we find puppies and kittens so cute and similar baby animals. Because their big heads and eyes and features make humans think of the features of their own babies. It brings out a nurturing component for humans. It’s a spark for humans nurturing to babies. I’ve read about such studies. There are things behind aesthetics and why we like somethings more visually compared to others and it’s not all because its hidden or taboo, but the aesthetic, appealing component to our eyes and biological relevance too.

    • Not everyone thinks butts are more sexually attractive than hair. And men’s butts look the same as women’s so guys should get aroused by men’s butts too if you’re right. People seem to like curves because unlike angles they’re less likely to harm them. Why should women be more naturally drawn to curves? Won’t help reproduction. Eyes are round and pealing but not arousing. Except maybe if they’re covered, Taliban-style

  30. It is interesting than lesbian fantasies might be present both in men and women…
    (” I still love my boyfriend and enjoy our sex life, but at the same time, let’s be honest, penises are a little ugly to look at. haha”)… Well, at least, I feel I am not alone… o_O
    Best wishes Aquileana ⭐

  31. I wonder, if women don’t find men to be sexually attractive then why do they bother bother having sex with them?
    They just close their eyes and they fantasize about the sexually attractive female body?
    So the definition of straight women is that they are sexually attracted to women but they are dating men?
    And since sexual orientation is defined by sexual attraction and not by sexual behavior doesn’t that mean that heterosexual women are very uncommon?

    • It seems that this is really a hard point to get across, But I will try again:

      Women do find men sexually attractive. They don’t find men’s bodies sexually arousing — or hardly any women do. Because if it’s not something that is taught in our culture.

      In some cultures women’s bodies aren’t considered arousing, And yet men still very much want to have sex with women.

      Or, you have older couples whose bodies are old and wrinkled, And they’re still sexually active, Even though no one is aroused by anyone’s body.

      It’s not natural to find bodies arousing. It is something that is a learned. And I just posted something that talks about how the learning seems to occur.

      You simply don’t have to find a body sexually arousing in order to want to have sex with someone.

      You can get sexually aroused by your partner without finding their body arousing.

      • “Or, you have older couples whose bodies are old and wrinkled, And they’re still sexually active, Even though no one is aroused by anyone’s body.”

        While others may not find their bodies sexually attractive, they do find each other sexually attractive. As a result of finding each other sexually attractive, their bodies still provoke visual arousal when being intimate.

        “It’s not natural to find bodies arousing. It is something that is a learned. And I just posted something that talks about how the learning seems to occur.”

        It might not be natural to find bodies arousing in a fetishsized way. But it seems pretty natural to find bodies sexually attractive and if finding bodies sexually attractive, you add the context to it, in a sexual moment and it’s not surprising and pretty natural for such sexually attractive to be able to become arousing or be arousing visually.

        “You simply don’t have to find a body sexually arousing in order to want to have sex with someone.

        You can get sexually aroused by your partner without finding their body arousing.”

        Umm, if I’m with a woman who has let her go greatly to where her body is not sexually attractive anymore to me, her body would not arouse me. If that happens, I can like her and all, but I won’t be turned on, therefore, not interested in sex nor would I be able to have sex since I or another man would not be able to get it up to have sex so to speak.

        If my partner’s body is not arousing me visually, I could have sex, but there would be a difference in excitment and motivation for sex. If her body arouses me, I’m ready to. If she’s attractive and we’re connected, I guess I could make love. But really I and other men, if your body doesn;t arouse us, we’re not going to be interested in sex that much. It’s weird, because I’m surprised for people to want sex if they aren’t aroused by their partners body. Even if in a serious relationship, sure the shock value and stir of seeing her nude would fade, but there would still be the desire to have sex with her and the desire and lust to see her naked body. Men still find their gfs sexy and hot even after things fade and, they still get turned on by their woman’s body when being intimate visually or into seeing her naked body when wearing a sexy bra or cleavage. And it’s not because he likes her, but because he likes her body and it’s still arousing, because it’s still quite sexually attractive to him visually and touch wise. I don’t understand not being turned on by your partners body during sex visually.

        If I’m turned on by her body during sex, it’s not just because we’re being intimate, I like her and we’re connect, but the hot, sexy, beautiful aesthetics of her body too and that sexual attractivness playing a big role in the visual turn on or that coming alive when being intimate.l

      • “While others may not find their bodies sexually attractive, they do find each other sexually attractive.”

        How do you know? How do you know that it’s not more about love and connection. I don’t see how can possibly be arousing in the way you described here:

        “If her body arouses me, I’m ready to.”

        And then there is this:

        “But really I and other men, if your body doesn;t arouse us, we’re not going to be interested in sex that much.”

        That’s exactly my point with my other comment to you — a huge reason why I so hate objectification:

        Like the 80% of women who don’t feel that great about their bodies, I spend my time distracted, wondering whether I’m attractive enough. I think I’m supposed to look a certain way and I don’t feel like I do. It’s a total turn off. I would be much more comfortable having sex if it was all about the physical pleasure and emotional connection. And not having to worry about how I look — whether I measured up. It’s a huge distraction! And it makes sex the opposite of enjoyable.

  32. All through history there are numerous examples of men having a harem of women. Even today, rich and powerful men are about having many women. Just think of rock stars and their groupies.
    But not even once in all history in any culture there was an example of a woman with a harem of men.
    So it could be that the bisexual female genes have survived all through history. and thats why women are mostly bisexual today.

    • Well in some cultures one man may marry a number of women. But in other cultures one-woman may marry a number of men. You get the first in cultures where there were tribal wars, Which killed a lot of the men, And then you would bring in women from the conquered tribe and marry them to the more powerful men. In the opposite instance you have a society with a limited amount of land and a desire to keep the population from growing. So maybe a woman would marry the whole family or brothers. And I don’t know whether situations where women were married to one man were sexually active with each other.

    • Ancient India, Tibet and China. The great Indian epic “Mahaharatha” features the main heroine Draupadi who has 5 husbands. Naturally, it must have been culturally acceptable back then, maybe rare.

      Do check out the wikipedia article on Polyandry. It explains a lot.

  33. It’s ironic that straight women learn to like (lesbian) porn but on the other hand there is a growing movement of men deliberately quitting porn.
    Source: yourbrainonporn.com
    google for “no pmo” and “reboot reboot”

    • I read somewhere — a therapist saying that more women were coming for therapy. That said, your women do seem to watch porn, probably because they are less likely to learn to be visual– having less “acceptable” visual imagery.

  34. What if this situation was reversed.
    At the same forum there is a woman saying that her boyfriend likes gay porn and she wonders if she isn’t attractive to him. So there you have the female version of Eric Uhttp://m.ehealthforum.com/health/why-do-straight-men-watch-gay-porn-t180522-a1.html

    How can straight men be aroused by gay male porn since the male body isn’t sexualized?

  35. *she wonders if he isn’t attracted to her*

    • There are a couple of possibilities.

      It appears that straight men can come to find ejaculation arousing when they constantly watch men do it in porn.

      On the other hand, he could be bisexual.

      I’m not sure exactly how gay men experience the male body as erotic. I’m not sure if gay culture helps them to. It doesn’t make sense that you have to learn to find a female body erotic but not the male body. But we know for sure that in cultures where women walk around nearly naked all the time, it’s no big deal.

      I’m also thinking about why men get aroused by hard-core porn (explicit) but women do not. Maybe it’s because when a man enters a woman (Or perhaps a gay man enters a man) it feels off the charts amazing. But it doesn’t feel like much of anything to a woman. So maybe when a man, whether he is straight or gay, watches a man entering another person he can mirror that feeling in his own mind. Whereas the same thing doesn’t have the same effect on a woman because her body experiences “Entry” very differently.

  36. How about this one?http://www.queerty.com/straight-men-are-a-lot-more-bisexual-than-people-think-20141025

    The reason why male bisexuality seem so uncommon it could be because of the gay bashing plus women wouldn’t be interested in dating a bisexual man.
    On the hand female bisexuality is sexualized

  37. Does this mean that women are more easily influenced by the media?
    Men learning to be turned on by the female body isnt difficul, after all men are already attracted to women, so there is no resistance in that
    But straight women learn to be sexually attracted to women which is supposedly against their grain.
    So there are two possibilities
    A. So called straight women are actually bisexual or lesbians in denial which can explained evolutionary. A man having sex with two women leads to more children thus women are very likely to be bisexual
    B. These women are indeed straight but they are so influnced by the media that they have learned to be sexually attracted to women against their grain

  38. Also, if women are less interested in men, then that explains why women want to marry up. They are interested more in what a man can provide than they are interested in the man himself

    • Women are very interested in men. Pretty much no young women in America today wants to marry a man for any reason other than love. And this hypergammy thing works on both sides: when you live in a patriarchy men tend to feel just as uncomfortable marrying up as women feel about marrying down. When you have a internalized patriarchy men and women both tend to feel uncomfortable when the woman has higher power and status. Have you seen this post? Man Chops Off Wife’s Fingers Because She’s More Educated Than Him
      https://broadblogs.com/2013/08/30/man-chops-off-wifes-fingers-because-shes-more-educated-than-him/

      • You confused me, a few posts above you replied YES to the question that women are less interested in men. Now you said that women are very interested in men. That sounds contradicting.
        Also women are supposedly getting married to men out of love while at the same time they learn to be sexually attracted to women?
        So women distinguish love (for men) to sexual feelings (for women)
        I thought that women don’t separate love from sexual feelings, that’s something that men mostly do.
        As far for that guy who hurt his wife, he was a psychopath. I bet that if someone looked at him the wrong way in the road or the bar, he would hurt him too. Its very alarming that a high percentage of people are walking time bombs

      • Unfortunately when I get comments it doesn’t tell me the text that I’m commenting on so I guessed wrong. Women are not less interested in men. Women love and are sexually attracted to men. They just don’t experience visual arousal in the way men do — don’t masturbate to nude images of men. But they still do have sexual feelings for men. Find them visually sexy but not to the point of masturbation. The experience is similarl to the way a man experiences his wife when he has been married to her for a while. She’s sexy and appealing but It’s not as visually arousing then.

      • A hypothetical question. If the male body was oversexualized by the media could that mean that women would have learned to be visually aroused by it?
        Could even straight men have learned to be aroused by the male body?
        Even the thought sounds weird

  39. “Could even straight men have learned to be aroused by the male body?
    Even the thought sounds weird”

    Men with bisexual tendencies might. I don’t think straight men would though. They most likely would be less homophobic and more likely to look at and admire men’s bodies like women do without feeling weird. But arousal and preferring gay porn for straight men? I still doubt it. Sure there would be exceptions I’m sure, but I doubt it. Women are more sexually fluid visually it seems. And a reason I think straight me would be less likely to learn to be aroused by the male body is because women are more sensitive to sexual cues, whereas, men are more distinctly attracred to the gender of their attraction. Proof in point: gay men. They have just about every reason to be aroused by women’s bodies since most media and ads sexualize women’s bodies, and most stations and media are heteronormative and women’s bodies everywhere. It’s not like gay men have a bunch of “gay channels” on tv featureing all tv shows with gay men kissing and such. Their direct tv or verizon fious stations, are just like ours with straight people shows and women in commercials sexualized.

    Yet despite that, gay men are aroused and look at men, and prefer gay porn over lesbian porn. Butt lesbians on the otherhand, Lesbians are are aroused by women, but there are quite a bit of lesbians who actually get turned on and watch gay male porn or watch it over lesbian porn. It’s men who are more likely rigid as far as visual arousal based on their sexual orientation. So I don’t think it would change much for straight men, but might being out attraction from men otherwise living as straight men and keeping it that way, but who have some bisexual tendencies. Those men might get aroused sometimes, but actual straight men..no.

    • But don’t forget that in ancient times, in the greek culture it was the male body that was considered to be the epitome of beauty. Just google for greek statues

  40. Women are seen as a sex object more than men because of the structure of the female body. The breasts, skinny waist, and butt attract both males and females to look at them. Men have abs, arms, and their butt to work on, but this may not compare to the different variations of how women can look sexy. Most attractive male bodies look the same – big arms, toned abs, and big butt.
    The Internet and media have emphasized the way a female should look although everyone has unique body shapes. Janet Jackson, Jennifer Lopez, Britney Spears, and Lady Gaga are only a few celebrities who highlight the sexual self-representation (Alcoff et al, 30-31). Although television is the most powerful and influential medium of communication in the world (ALcoff et al, 34), I am not sure if a unique body movement portrayed in businesses and the media will impact society’s standard of the perfect woman. In society, the representation of big boobs, skinny waist, and a big butt have been instilled in the mind. Women sell and are generally judged on looks more than men. Today, women make more money modeling or being a porn star than a regular job like a schoolteacher. Men make more money than women in real jobs in business and other industries.
    Being seen as a sex object is not necessarily a good thing. Men may want to be seen as a sex object to boost their ego. Western ideals of beauty are dictated by contradictory beliefs that women are more beautiful than men. It is important to realize that everyone has a different perspective of attractiveness and beauty. Sex may arouse and attract a person, but personality and is what really pulls others to a person.

  41. I think if men were objectified in the way women were, as in seen to be our only worth is sex, you’d think differently. Objectification leaves me feeling shit about myself constantly and I don’t enjoy sex like I should. Men are seen as full humans so are desired in a complex way, how they act, how they dress, being funny and sweet etc and women do fantasise and malternate to men just not to visual stimulation necessarily. I read that women tend to fantasise about men they know where as men fantasise anout an unknown woman. I’d rather be desired for all of me than think all my worth is in my tits and the rest of me doesn’t matter. Like it’s just body parts, women aren’t inherently sexual, our bodies have the exact same functions but somewhere along the line through how body parts are shown and covered they’ve been sexualised. This leads to having to be modest or cover up parts of you because society has decided they’re sexual and you’d be a slut if you wore something that showed them off too much.
    So just because women find dick picks a bit gross doesn’t mean we don’t find men in their entirety as desirable. Humans are equally sexy and gross and should be embraced in their complexity.

  42. Women do not need their men to be sex objects. It’s simple. We do not need a man with a perfectly chiseled body to turn us on every second of the day. We do not need a man that looks like a male model. We need a man that stimulates us emotionally and intellectually. We need someone that will make us feel loved and cared about. Intercourse is not the only thing that brings us into the bedroom. We have sex for intimacy, to show our partner how we feel about them. Our pleasure comes from our connection with them. You do not need to be a sex object.

    • They don’t need to be and men don’t want to have to be chiseled to be desired. But men’s bodies can be desired or should be arousing even without being perfect. Women don’t realize or don’t seem to realize how sexy and arousing their supposed non perfect bodies are to men. Men chiseled or not, just don’t get that physical feeling or visual desire on their body. And that’a a nice thing to feel. It’s a nice buzz to have your body desired for, because it’s so sexy lookingn, and not because something else made it look sexy. When women say it;s his personality or pleasure comes from their connection with their man. It makes it seem like the man’s body is secondary and not that sexy to cause lust by itself. I know it’s ingrained in society, but men actually like their bodies lusted for too. I don;t know how to explain it. I do like being lusted for because of my charm and humor and skills, etc. So like that counted. But I don’t want the other traits being counted as in making my body arousing or sexy as a result. Like the other traits counted but separate at the same time so I can see that women actually are lusting for the man’s by itself, but value and appreciate his other traits.

      I’ll explain it in an ideal sense to give an idea, and ideal because it’s a dream situation for men, since it’s a having your cake and eating situation. And because women don’t seem to respond in this ideal way generally. For me, though, an ideal example would be this. I see pretty girl, maybe hot, sexy body. I’m shitless, she’s not just finding me attractive, but lusting for my body and what she’d do with it. That’s flattering and a turn on and proof of your body itself, being desirbale and not because of anything else. So the desirable body itself.

      Same woman knows you after, loves your humor, charm, etc, so your other traits are valued too, which you want and are proud of too. But the difference is she is separating the attraction or can, kind of like guys can. So you as a man know that your body itself is desirbale, because she wanted it just from seeing it, but the rest came after and valued as well. But they didn’t get combined together like how women do, making you wonder if your body is desirbale just because she likes you and finds your personality sexy thus “your” body, because its your body is sexy to her. When it’s combined it seems to negate your body aesthetically and it’ss sexual appeal, arousing aspect. Whereas, separating, as in like my body itself and aroused by it, but also caring just as much about my personality after too, etc. Well that allows men to be appreciated for their bodies. If I feel I have a lust worthy body and work out, I want her desire to be toward that and validate my body pride and desire to be desired for such body.

      You can chime in georgia if you want with this.

      • All I can say is that I feel exactly like Zoe.

        “Women don’t realize or don’t seem to realize how sexy and arousing their supposed non perfect bodies are to men. Men chiseled or not, just don’t get that physical feeling or visual desire on their body.”

        Some women do experience being sexy the way you describe. But 80% of women have poor body image. An awful lot of us spend our time in bed worrying about how we look instead of enjoying anything. And women who do think they’re attractive are often distracted thinking about how they look in certain body positions instead of getting sexually aroused. If you were to really be in the situation you crave, you may well not like it so much.

  43. no reason for men to be attracted by nude women or for women to be attracted by nude men.”

    Maybe it’s not normal to have a fetish attraction and arousal, but I think it’s quite normal and there is an evolutionary reason to be attracted to the opposite sexes nude bodies right? Sure just standing there and being turned on just from a nude body, doing nothing sexual probably not. But well men and women are set up to be attracted to each other and well what differentiates men and women physically and make thems different? Their looks and their body right? Different genitals, different body parts as in the look and structure. Well naturally you are “attracted visually’ to these difference, “sexually attractive” “visually sexy” body parts that are attractive to you, you’re drawn to and attracted to. So yes a nude man should be something a woman is attracted to.

    Not any man, but what is physically attractive. I mean it’s natural to find the opposite sex, sexually attractive right and like their bodies right and how they look, and feel and lust for it right? I may not have a fetish for a woman’s body if say being in a country where they are topless alot. But I will still find her body sexually attractive and that is still an equation to my desire and motivation to having sex with her paired with her personality, and face and chemistry that connects, But the nude body that I like is definitely playing a role visually and as far as lust too. So yes, attraction by a nude woman makes sense biologically and it should for a woman to a man.

    • It’s natural to be attracted to the opposite sex.

      But visual fetishes aren’t natural. You don’t find them everywhere — in every culture. And when women do have a visual fetish, it is more likely directed toward women, not men, and in cultures where women’s bodies are fetishized.

      You wrote a couple of other long comments. You need to write something shorter.

      • It’s natural to be attracted to the opposite sex.”

        yeah as in their nude bodies. Not in a fetish way perhaps, but still drawn, attracted and lust for said bodies. You said there’s no reason for men to be attracted by nude women and women attracted by nude men, when I said it’s actually pretty natural and a reason. Maybe not fetished attracted but yeah a visual attraction, which makes sense.

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