Women Seeing Women as Sexier than Men
Girls are so inundated with sexualized images of women that they learn to see women as sexier than men. Women come to see women through male eyes?
In the bedroom, this can make women’s sexuality a bit convoluted, which I’ll discuss later.
But consider my students:
“Women’s bodies are just naturally sexier than men’s,” my class tells me when I ask why women are portrayed as sex objects.
In this belief, my students are not alone.
A few years back Lisa Kudrow, of Friends fame, told Jay Leno that female nudity is displayed more in movies because, “Who wants to look at a guy?”
Hugh Hefner thinks women are natural sex objects, “If women weren’t sex objects, there wouldn’t be another generation.”
I’ve talked before about how the breast fetish is not natural, but is learned by both men and women. But how do we all learn that women are sexier than men in ways that go beyond the fetish?
Growing up, girls are bombarded with visions of women as sexy, with skin selectively hidden and revealed, the camera focused on those intriguingly concealed parts.
When I was little my mom took me to the Ice Capades. After noticing that the women were half dressed while the men were fully clothed, I asked why. Mom told me that women just have better legs.
Do they? One warm summer day an adult from my church youth group commented, “It’s too bad the guys have the best legs.” (Thanks!) But what is our cultural ideal? Longer, leaner. Young men typically have longer legs, and they don’t have the extra layer of fat that women do. So most young men’s legs come closer to our ideal. Yet we say women have better legs? When I think about it, I actually think men have pretty nice looking legs. But nothing and no one directs our attention to them.
On Dancing With The Stars, women are half-dressed and men are fully-clothed. During an advertisement, the camera lingers on women’s breasts and legs in a Victoria’s Secret display. Next, a commercial for shoes focuses on women’s behinds: See this Rebook ad for EasyTone. Try to imagine the same focus on men’s butts (which actually are pretty attractive)!
Watch a football game and see big, fully-dressed, aggressive guys playing on the field, while scantily clad cheerleaders show off their stuff from the sidelines. In the Bikini Open men sport golf wear while women dawn bikinis. When does Sports Illustrated most focus on women? In the swimsuit edition.
Through it all, the camera gazes at women’s body parts, but not men’s. Telling us what’s important to notice. What’s sexy and what’s not.
Men’s bodies are rarely sexualized outside infrequent underwear ads.
Historically, men have had control of media, and they’ve portrayed what they see as sexy.
Bombarded with these images, girls come to see women as sexier than men. As I’ve said before, when I tell my class that I find a Playboy pinup sexier than a Playgirl pinup, women’s heads nod in agreement.
Meanwhile, when women answer surveys about what they find sexy they say “men.” But when they are wired up, blood flow to the vagina is stronger when viewing an image of a nude woman than a nude man – conscious responses and bodily responses not agreeing.
Oddly, and yet logically, women come to see women through male eyes.
So women come to see themselves as the sexy half of the species. Being sexy has some advantages. It can just be fun, it’s easier to attract mates (consider the success of women versus men in singles bars), and sexiness is a source of power.
But there’s a downside, too, including the narrow construct that leaves so many women feeling they exist outside the “sexy” box, with a drop in self esteem kicking in.
Taken to extreme, some women can become sex objects, taking an unhealthy one-dimensional focus on themselves, feeling that how they look is all that matters. And some men may see them as objects whose sole purpose is to be used for their pleasure.
It ain’t so great to be, or be seen, as mere object.
To anyone who plans to inform me that I am bi, please see this post first (I’m tired of answering repetitive comments): Men Know My Sexuality Better Than Me. And to those who think this means women don’t find men sexy or desirable, see this: Men Don’t Feel Sexy–and It Sucks.
Related Posts on BroadBlogs
Women Learn the Breast Fetish, Too
Man as Object: Reversing the Gaze
Women Gazing At Men
Do Women See Sexy Men As Sexy?
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Posted on January 10, 2011, in body image, feminism, gender, men, objectification, psychology, sex and sexuality, sexism, women and tagged body image, culture, feminism, gender, men, objectification, perfect body, sex and sexuality, sexism, sexual objectification, sexuality, women. Bookmark the permalink. 170 Comments.
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Yes of course it is fact. Women get attracted female nudity more than male nudity because women are beautiful and sexy than men in terms of figure
At the same time I suspect that female nudity is considered sexier because we sexualize the female body more. In societies where women walk around nearly naked no one really cares.
Well, I suspect some one cares and pays attention – they still make babies! 🙂 so some thing excites them?
You don’t need visual excitement to be sexually aroused. People manage quite well to have sex in the dark. In tribal societies — which are most similar to our earliest ancestors, And about 95% of the human experience — neither women’s nor men’s bodies are fetishized.
And have you noticed that Playgirl went bankrupt even as Playboy, Penthouse, Hustler, etc made loads of money. And almost all pornography is directed toward men.
Yup, not the same kind of stress in primitive societies – helps with libido a lot. In our society, lots of money, power and freedom that goes with that is a libido booster – hence the Donald. Points to everything in moderation is a good thing.
Yes.
Tribal societies are also less sexually repressive, which helps, too.
Interesting to note history…Greek and Roman art had numerous statues of naked guys. Artists were men i.e. “in control of media”. However never seen a statue of man where his penis was larger than life. Hey, at least we are honest eh. i.e. no boob jobs! So most comments on here blaming men in control is B.S. Plenty of men in history were naked objects at least, not sure if they were sex objects back then. However, they were pretty Bisexual in those days. So were Samurai in ancient Japan. Ugh. Conclusion: morals, preferences change with times. So who is sexy men or women is a useless discussion and can change due to “advertising” and fashion. But hey, in my mind, no doubts women have the superior curves and appeal. They have many more attributes than men. e.g. eyes, lashes, curves everywhere, softness, nicer skin, complexion, no / minimum body hair, and a what I call that special sexual something I call “playful submissiveness” that incites our sexual appetites. Men just have one mode mostly….the women win! 🙂
Just because men have greater control historically of media, arts and literature doesn’t mean that men are bad. It just means that we are more likely to see through their eyes.
I am both white and straight and because whites and straights have have more control over media, arts and literature their perspective also has a bigger influence. It doesn’t mean they are bad, it means that people are more likely to see the world through their eyes.
So you mention ancient Greece. Those were male dominant cultures, men have more influence over ideas, and the male body was celebrated. So it completely fits with what I was discussing here.
And I don’t believe that men’s bodies are less attractive than women’s. As a society we just sexualize and fetishize the female form more, And then we all unconsciously internalize it. That it both positive and negative for women. In some ways that gives women more power — sexual allure has historically been one of the few routes to power that women have had in a patriarchy. But women are also more reduced to their looks and judged by them.
Take a look at this if you like:
I Wish Women Saw Me As A Sex Object
Want To Be Objectified? Careful What You Wish For
Men can also have sexy eyes, and legs and most of the things you mention.
I think boobs have been sexualized because only women have them, and it is in the interest of men to portray women as a sex object – not valuable for other reasons such as intelligence.
I agree tho not sure men started out doing this purposefully.
As humans moved north from Africa (where breasts are no big deal in tribal cultures) and started wearing clothing, breasts were covered, and this was an obvious difference. What was beneath? Covering creates intrigue, as an Iranian student told me about revealing her “hair cleavage” back before satellite and internet. (The men would go wild.)
Most men are straight and w/control of fashion, art, media, portraying the objects of their lust, breasts likely became even more a focus, fetish. Likely mostly men guided by sexual lust over power lust, I’m guessing.
I strongly agree that women are sexier than men. I find myself most of the time attract and see women through men’s eyes to the point that my friends think that I must be lesbian. I look at women because I appreciate their hard work in keeping great body and skin, which is required a lot of time and money. One of my Chinese teacher also told the class that she would look at a pretty person out of curiosity. Personally I think nature creates women to have great body and skin to balance out the men body. Fashion and media industry play an important role in promoting women great body. Women body is a big deal in business world, especially media to attract and maintain viewers/supporters.
Interesting thoughts. I suspect that our culture sexualis’s women’s bodies and ignores men’s, which is what creates the disconnect.
Take a look at these:
Man as Object: Reversing the Gaze
Men: Erotic Objects of Women’s Gaze
Yet men can be pretty sexy:
David Beckham’s Sex Sells
I agree im hetero female and seeing a nakes women turns me on more than seeing a naked man. And i do belived its learned.
Thanks for sharing your experience.
I see the belief that women are sexier than men manifested in my life everyday. When I turn on the T.V, read a magazine, see a billboard, listen to the radio, or go shopping, all I see are sexy scantily clad women. My mind and the minds of many others have been conditioned to see women as sex symbols and men as regular people. Because there is such an emphasis on the sex appeal of women, our society as a whole sees women as more sexy than men. Because men dominate the media, they are deciding what we as a society deem sexy. Women see women through male eyes. Women therefore internalize the belief that women are sexier than men. I find this odd because it completely goes against natural heterosexual behavior. In my personal opinion, men and women are equally sexy. I have a lot of friends and family who would disagree with me, though.
Yeah it’s strange how a lot of straight women think that women are sexier than men. And yet when you internalize a society that constantly sexualizes women’s bodies and ignores men’s — and then we all internalize it — it makes a certain amount of sense.
If you’re straight, why would men and women be equally sexy to you? Shouldn’t men’s bodies be sexier to you than women’s bodies if you’re straight? As a straight man, I know it’s different for women. But I am secure to see a man as good looking or has a nice body or great physique and admire. And maybe wish I had such an impressive build.
But while I can find a man’s body attractive, I don’t find men’s bodies “sexy”. I don’t find men’s bodies THAT attractive if that makes sense. Sexy is a strong word to me, like hot. I can find a guy good looking or very good looking, but sexy, cute and hot I don’t see from men and not a word I’d use and most other straight men don’t see it that way even if secure too. It’s the not secure men who can’t even find another guy good looking or his body or get uncomfortable if they see an image of a nude guy. I don’t, but it doesn’t do anything. My reaction would either be, it’s unattractive or indifferent to it. Like looking at a wall, just its there, meh, but women’s on the other hand who are attractive to me, that’s sexy. I find that interesting for women to have an equal visual appreciation to men and women, when it would seem they should if straight have more visual appreciation to men and thus words to show that difference. Men sexier or men sexy and women not, etc.
That’s very true but you don’t touch on some of the organic reasons for this. Men pursue women, or there is no relationship.
Why is he pursuing her? Considering at the start of the pursuit you know very little about someone other than are you or are you not sexually attracted.
In a perfect world where women ask a guy for his phone number exactly 50% of the time the issues you raise would be a negative. But that is not the real world. Men must woo women with accomplishment and competition with each other, and women must ATTRACT men.
Therefore women are objectified based on beauty, youth, fitness to bear children where men are objectified on athelticism and to some extent looks but these things are meaningless without status: money, influence, humor, good family good career, social status men are judged on all those things FAR more than women are.
Women complain that overweight females are ignored, but it’s easier to hit a gym than earn enough to provide for two people. You can argue that not all women want an alpha who can take care of them, but many do expect success, maturity and agreeable social status. And likewise not all men are repulsed by overweight women.
In the end it comes out pretty much equal, both sexes are shallow in different ways- height for men being another trait that is judged very harshly (in Hollywood any man under six foot had better be hilarious). And height, unlike weight, cannot be easily changed.
So until the day our courting rituals make a sudden 180 degree turn, women and men both appreciating sexy women is here to stay. And it’s not all media- I mean just look at figure skating. Women’s bodies ARE sleeker and more classically elegant it’s just a fact, they don’t have a giant awkward package sticking out of their bodies.
Bottom line is in the last 10,000 years courting rituals haven’t changed much and I don’t think they’re about to.
Well it’s not true that in the last 10,000 years courting rituals haven’t changed much. They’ve actually changed quite a bit. And they vary by culture.
Most recently, women have changed to now care just about as much about looks as men do. In the 1950s women cared much more about how much money a man made than they do now. Women are much more likely to marry for love than in the 1950s.
In some cultures like Oceana or the Indians of America’s east coast, men and women just had sex with whoever they wanted before marriage. No double standard.
And through most of recent history marriages were arranged. It had nothing to do with men courting or romantic love. This is still true in much of the world.
And physical ideals shift from place to place. Among the Wodaabe of Nigeria in Africa, men adorn themselves with makeup and jewelry. Because white eyes and teeth are part of the beauty ideal for men, they often roll their eyes and show their teeth to show off these features.
In parts of West Africa female obesity is prized.
The current feminine ideal in America is anorexic women with boob jobs — À la Victoria’s Secret Angels.
Now that men are being judged more on their looks men are having more problems with body image and eating disorders.
None of this is healthy. Standards can change. We can all work toward valuing one another outside of objectification.
Hi, I’ve been reading your blogs for a while and I think that it is very interesting that someone is looking into these types of things. As a male who has always had body issues, I’ve gotta say that some of these findings are disheartening to say the least. I hope this post isn’t too long, I just wanted to get your opinion of it. I was a Sociology major as well lol.
The reason that this topic is really peaking my interest is because I just got into my first long term relationship. Previously I had long heard that girls aren’t crazy about how penis looks, and that muscles may look attractive but doesn’t necessarily turn them on. I’m trying to figure out where my girlfriend fits on this spectrum. She has said comments that fit with what most of your findings have suggested but she is also an outlier on other things.
She has said comments about other girls such as, oh she’s so pretty, or she’s gorgeous. One time she even complimented a girl on her breasts. Now these things didn’t really alarm me that much because girls say these types of things all the time. She rarely ever said anything about men’s bodies though except that she liked muscular arms. The one that kind of got me mad and led me to looking online is when she told me that she went to a beach that had topless women and she was looking at the girls every once in a while. When I asked her why she said simply because it’s not something she is used to seeing. I asked her how she would feel if a naked guy was on the beach and she said “nobody wants to see that.” That got me mad and we had quite an argument about it later on.
Now a little context, my girlfriend is overweight and has had body issues in the past. She is traditional in the sense that she said that she doesn’t like to lust after men if she’s not in a relationship with them so that explains why she doesn’t comment on other men.
Now so far she seems more like what you are used to hearing from women when it comes to the male gaze and not fetishizing men’s bodies like we do women. But here’s the rub. When talking to her about if she was attracted to women, she said absolutely not. Not even in the fetishizing way that you talk about with the breast fetish. She told me that when she looks at women and notices they have attractive bodies, she is always, always comparing them to herself. That right there made sense because I do the same things with male bodies. If I see a dude that has muscles I’m looking at him and admiring/being jealous of his physique. Once again I grew up with body issues as well. When asking her about if she’s ever masturbated to porn she said no, but admitted to masturbating to naked/shirtless men since high school, but that she always felt dirty about it. She thought of it as pathetic and not something she is supposed to like. She also admitted that she is turned on by attractive naked men but feels that she is kind of pressured into saying comments like “nobody wants to see that” because that what she has grown up hearing from her friends. When we first started dating she asked me for dick pics and body pics all the time. I offered them first, she always wanted me to send them and has admitted to masturbating to them, and still does when we are away. This was unusual to me because I always thought girls didn’t like that sort of thing.
So in your opinion, do you think that my girlfriend is unusual since she is physically and sexually aroused by shirtless/naked men? There are probably a lot of women that feel this way but have repressed it so much that they don’t even think they are aroused by it. I’m interested to hear your thoughts!
Every now and then someone writes in saying that they are a woman who does find the penis arousing. She is the first one who said she masturbated to chest images.
All of us are a mix of three things: culture + social experiences + biological personality. So each of us will be a bit unique. But you will find general social patterns.
In our culture women hardly ever purchase pornography, naked pictures of men … And there’s not much in our society that would lead us to do that. But because of the unique mix of your girlfriends biology and social experiences she seems to be an outlier. The main reason I suggest she is an outlier is that, For instance, when Playgirl try to compete with playboy, penthouse, hustler, barely legal … They just didn’t get very many sales and about half the audience seemed to be male. But some of the audience was female. Probably women like your girlfriend. It would be interesting to know what makes the difference – why some girls grow up to find naked men visually arousing.
Thank you for replying so soon. Yes it is interesting that girls like my girlfriend may be considered an outlier. Even though like most girls she more often masturbates while thinking of scenarios in her mind but she says that sometimes she needs a visual aid, so that’s why the shirtless men turned her on so much. She said she would look at them and imagine them doing things to her. Plus she just get’s physically turned on my a nice toned guy 🙂 I actually don’t think she would buy Playgirl or anything like that though. Even though she can masturbate to naked men, the men she masturbated to in the past were underwear models mostly.
I think a lot of the reason that women don’t find shirtless/naked men sexually attractive is mainly based on culture just like you have said. There could be consequences for girls that admit that they like looking at shirtless men or even (gasp) getting off to it. Imagine being the girl that is actually turned on by male underwear models and pleases herself to them. Not only will they be perceived as weird but also maybe slutty as well. From speaking with my girlfriend she has admitted that she has felt pressure to think that way based on her friends and the media, and at times she has given in to saying what she thinks she is supposed to say and a part of it has become ingrained in her. She likes the fact that I make her think about why she says things sometimes.
I think race may have something to do with it as well. This is just a theory but both my girlfriend and I are black but we did grow up in white neighborhoods. I think it is much more expected by white women to admire other women’s bodies and look down on men’s bodies. Black women I feel are more open to appreciating a black man’s body. My girlfriend would only look up black underwear models, so maybe there’s something to that as well? It’s an interesting thing to think about to say the least!
“Creating scenarios in her mind + visual aid of sexy shirtless men” makes a lot more sense — and does not make her an outlier. I don’t know how often women feel a need to be looking at a picture, versus having a picture of a sexy man in her mind. But the basic idea is actually pretty typical for women. Women have a lot of sexy, romantic fantasies about attractive men. See this: Men Watch Porn, Women Read Romance. Why? https://broadblogs.com/2011/05/16/men-watch-porn-women-read-romance-why/
I’m not sure that women feel weird admitting that they find a sexy male body arousing. Because I doubt that that is usually the root problem — depending on what you mean by “arousing.” I think most women would admit that they find a sexy male body attractive, and that they have sexual fantasies about men with sexy male bodies. (Although other things are often more important than how toned the guy is. Like a woman who met Don Draper would probably not have any idea what his body looks like, but she could easily have sex fantasies about that sexy guy.) Have you seen this post? Do Women See Sexy Men As Sexy? https://broadblogs.com/2015/05/06/do-women-see-sexy-men-as-sexy-2/
Because women are taught that women are the sex objects, they’re more likely to get aroused by feeling like “sexy guy” is turned on by her. Have you seen this post? Women Making Love to Themselves https://broadblogs.com/2015/09/28/women-making-love-to-themselves/
I don’t know that most women would feel guilty or weird about saying that she found a man’s body sexy — if she saw it as sexy. Although she might if all of her friends behaved in a particular way.
More often, I think what feels weird is simply reacting to sexy male bodies — because we just aren’t that used to it. I updated some research on this topic but haven’t posted it yet. (My students were more mixed on how they responded to male nudity than in this post.) But take a look at this: Men, Women React to Male/Female Nudity https://broadblogs.com/2015/01/19/men-women-react-to-male-female-nudity/
I didn’t think to ask about race when I redid the survey. Maybe I’ll look into that sometime.
Women love seeing naked men but there is a very important difference- women don’t care for naked ANONYMOUS men, the way men are aroused by naked women in general. Women want more of a full attraction to a specific man before that kind of visual stimulus really kicks in.
And you’re right there are outliers. I dated a girl who was very frisky but could care less about naked men the way women are portrayed- she like myself believes that stuff targets gay men, not women.
What did she get off too? Men fighting to the death lol, not remotely sexualized, could be any fight scene in a movie it would get her really horny. Especially when the bad guy bought it something about seeing this powerful guy get taken down, the hotter the better. But seeing male violence against a female turned her off like it would most people.
To each their own!
Women don’t get aroused by looking at their naked partners. And men often aren’t too thrilled to hear about that.
Which isn’t to say that women don’t appreciate when their partners have an attractive body. But it’s not actually arousing. It’s kind of like in our culture men appreciating beautiful hair, but not getting aroused by it.
Actually, women are mostly turned on by how they think their partners see them. See this:
Women Making Love to Themselves
Here’s my theory; It’s connected to the fact that women are valued for what they are while men are valued for what they do. (As Warren Farrell put it, women are human beings while men are considered ‘human doings’)
Sure, but you’re talking about the outcome, not the cause. I’m talking about the cause. Take a look at the post again and see what you think.
Ridiculous! I’m a straight woman and I see men as sexier than women. Wtf!!!
You are wrong, males’ bodies are sexualized , girls loved Taylor Lautner for his abs, women swarm to see Magic Mike for their sexy bodies not their personality, when a chubby/skinny male celebrity works out and get’s ripped women always comment on how sexy he got and how they love him more. Playgirl magazine’s buyers were 80% women , i’m sure they didn’t buy it for nothing else but men’s bodies.
Hmmmm, so why did Playgirl go bankrupt? And why was pretty much all of their advertising targeted at gay men?
And why are men 10 times more likely to watch porn?
And why don’t we get little glimpses of a guy’s penis in movies to increase women’s ticket sales?
You should take a look at this:
Men, Women React to Male/Female Nudity
And for more on Magic Mike, and how so many women saw it as not sexy:
Why Aren’t Male Strippers Sexy?
I agree with this 100%.
I grew up thinking only women could be pretty/sexy, but it wasn’t until I stumbled upon a genre of manga/anime called “Otome” and “Yaoi”, which actually show very beautiful and elegant looking men, and now I realize how sexy and pretty men can potentially be. I find as I got older, more women were just like me and wanted to see more pretty/sexy men. I am not alone, and yet mainstream media ignores us.
Japanese society is really poor when it comes to feminism, and yet they have some of the most pro-feminist media in the form of manga/anime/games(aside from the misogynist stuff like rape/lolicon, which I avoid like the plague).
I think in turn, this made me realize how wrong it is that the world sexualizes females so much and leaves men out, and essentially turned me into a feminist(pro equality).
I want to see a world where men are just as sexualised as women. Equal fanservice, or none at all.
Sadly, I don’t think that will happen anytime soon as women’s(and gay/bi men’s) desires are still mostly ignored.
Interesting to see the effects of culture on all of this. Thanks for sharing.
This is a very fascinating subject. I too have heard women say that they find the female body more sexy than the male. I’ve also heard that women’s sexuality is more fluid than men’s sexuality. That women are more likely to be bisexual whereas men are more likely to be gay or straight. But I’ve heard that used as an excuse as to why the media objectifies women more than men, because both men and women would rather see semi-naked women than semi-naked men. In this blog though, you don’t think it was originally this way. You think it’s only after years of women being objectified in the media, that women are starting to see women as sex objects and attractive. I’m not disagree with you. What you say could very well be the case.
In cultures where women walk around nearly naked their bodies aren’t considered arousing. And I have another blog post coming out momentarily that briefly discusses the point.
However, women’s sexuality might also be more fluid. I haven’t written about that yet but I will. So the two things seem to come together.
But even with the fluidity, Women seem to have a primary orientation but some ability to have relationships with women or to be aroused by their body parts, even if they have no interest in having sex with them.
What about all the times that guys are shown shirtless though? What about the sexualization of popstars like the boys in the One Direction band or Justin Bieber? Females are probably more sexualized but males are becoming more and more sexualized.
They are sexy, but not in the same way I’m talking about. They are considered sexy and attractive because of much more than their bodies. And their bodies are not fetishized.
Here’s a question then, wouldn’t it mean that women are more easily turned on by looking at women instead of men? Like wouldn’t would fantasizing about a women put you in the mood for sex better then fantasizing about a man? Also I do believe men notice this and it is because of the conditioning a lot of men turn to gay men for attention because gay men will more likely view men as sexy and actually make them feel wanted and desirable regardless of their wealth.
Yes.
And it’s fascinating that straight men would turn to gay men, when research shows that it’s very difficult for gay men to get aroused by women and that it’s very difficult for straight men to get aroused by men. Men don’t seem to have the same level of flexibility in their sexuality that women do.
You sound displeased by what I wrote. If you don’t like it, change the patriarchy which only sexualizes women and ignores “men as sexy.”
a)If that’s case then that means that women can get influenced by the media whereas men don’t get influenced by the media. That’s like saying women have “weaker” personalities and can get influenced by the media. That’s like saying the media dictates women what they should like or not and women follow it.
b)If that’s case then how can it be explained that in Brazil (a western country with many images of sexy women) there are more bisexual men than bisexual women?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_people_in_Brazil
Well first, just because someone is flexible it doesn’t mean they’re weaker.
Otherwise I don’t know. The studies that have been done were with very small groups and so maybe the bisexual male experience wasn’t captured? I don’t know enough about Brazilian culture to say anything more.
But also, you and I have a running disagreement as to whether the media images actually change orientation. For instance, while I learned the breast fetish, I have never had any interest in sex with women, which seems slightly nauseating.
I guess it’s a matter of definition. Most people insist that sexual orientation is defined entirely by attraction and that sexual behavior is irrelevant. I don’t agree entirely with that but that’s what most people keep saying. You have mentioned men in prison engaging in sex with men but when they are out of prison they are back to girls. So I guess you kind of agree that sexuality is defined by attraction and not by sexual behavior. Which brings to media influencing women’s attraction.
Many women, including you as you have said, learned through the media to get aroused/turned on/attracted to the female body. Sexual behavior is irrelevant. And since sexual orientation is entirely defined by attraction – (sexual behavior is irrelevant) – that means that the media influences and changes women’s sexual orientation.
It’s obvious to me that at some point I learned to find female breasts sexually arousing. But I have no desire to have sex with the woman who owns those breasts. It doesn’t make any sense to me to say that my sexual orientation is bisexual when the thought of having sex with a woman makes me nauseous.
But why are women supposedly more flexible than men?
Male bisexuality/homosexuality is frowned.
There no representation of bisexual males on movies, music videos, magazines, etc.
If men hinted they had some sexual flexibility then people would consider them to be gay.
How many women would be attracted to men kissing men in the bars?
So men if they have any flexibility they have to hide otherwise they will be dubbed as gay.
An interesting statistic was that in the 50s (an other wise more conservative era) there were more men admitting some homosexual behavior than now days. That is believed it’s because since the rise of the theory of “homosexuality is a ‘born this way’ trait” then these men might be afraid they would be called gay even if they weren’t.
You could be right.
“And that might be a double standard. Maybe the women would defend themselves by saying that sexually objectified images of men are so uncommon in our culture that they don’t have a terribly negative effect on men, generally. And certainly lesbians are unlikely to start treating men like sex objects. Or, it could be an inconsistency. Humans are frequently inconsistent.”
Perhaps humans can be inconsistent. No offense, but it sure seems women are more inconsistent with their thoughts and behavior. I mean the fact of straight women liking lesbian porn and lesbians liking gay porn, seems like quite the contradiction. You don’t see men doing this with porn. It sure seems like men follow what they say and are visually attracted and respond to what they should be liking, based on logic. But anyway even though lesbians might prefer gay porn because it doesn’t have women in it being sexually abused, and what not. But I guess the question still isn’t answered, and what doesn’t make sense. How can lesbians like seeing naked men fucking each other and seeing that? Even if it’s for different purposes, it’s still something you’d be visually seeing and I don’t know how you can ingnore it or enjoy seeing that especially if not attracted to men. I mean I’m thinking men fucking each other or blowjobs should be “unpleasant visually”. I mean many straight women find that unpleasant visually, so you’d think lesbians who don’t find men sexually attractive would find it especially “visually unpleasant” to see.
Sorry but I can’t help you anymore than what I’ve already said — which is only a guess. I don’t get it either.
I saw an explanation, that kind of explains straight women watching lesbian porn, but then brings up other questions. I’m going to quote the explanation I saw here.
“For a woman, it’s more about the psychological. They do more thinking. imagining, fantasizing with sex than men do.
So a straight man generally won’t be attracted to gay porn because he probably doesn’t think ramming some dude in the a** is hot, and he also probably cannot enjoy the thought of being pleasured, because that thought is accompanied with a picture of another man.
But a woman would be able to enjoy lesbian porn, because it’s easier to disassociate with the images (two girls getting it on) and concentrate on the things that she’d imagine could be done to her (by her man).
In short, females = attention seeking (like to imagine things BEING DONE to them)
males = physical attraction (likes visual cues to emulate DOING something to another)”
That’s why its confusing for guys. But then brings up the question, what is the point of watching porn, a visual stimuli. When a woman disassociates the images and focuses things she’d imagine done to her (by her man). If it’s a lot to do with imagination and fantasy, then what is the point of a visual stimuli. Why watching two women having sex when that is used to imagine simply sex and her man doing it to her? And still how does that not equate or bother or get into her though when her eyes see that? Shouldn’t it interfere? I don’t know how a woman can ignore or disassociate women having sex and that not screw up arousal or fantasy, Don’t even get me going with lesbians watching gay porn.
Actually, women are visual. But our culture has created the notion that women are what is sexy, Women are the sex objects. So when women are having sex they aren’t focused on what the guy looks like. They turn themselves into the sex object. They see themselves through his eyes. They see his lust for them. And that arouses them. (I plan to write on this more in the future.)
So this part is right:
females = like to imagine things BEING DONE to them
males = likes visual cues to emulate DOING something to another)
When they are fantasizing, They may be doing this. A lot of women have what are called “Rape fantasies.” No woman wants to actually be raped because she doesn’t have any control over the situation and she knows the intention is to harm. In these fantasies she’s controlling everything, Including the guys motive, which is that she is so attractive that he can’t resist her.
In other types of fantasies, Women are evaluating the hero — every part about him calling his looks, his heart, his feelings about the heroine… This is very elaborate fantasy.
With lesbian porn, the women could be experiencing it similar to the way men do, since women often also learn the breast fetish/ to fetishize the female. Although many women won’t because they have repressed it or they see the girl’s competition — someone who makes her look bad — which isn’t erotic at all.
When it comes to gay porn and lesbians or straight women, any sort of sexual activity can be arousing for women, and some women prefer gay porn because they don’t have to look at women being harmed, which creates a lot of discomfort in a lot of women, Especially women who are more feminist.
I love your questions, they give me a lot of ideas for my blog.
“When it comes to gay porn and lesbians or straight women, any sort of sexual activity can be arousing for women, and some women prefer gay porn because they don’t have to look at women being harmed, which creates a lot of discomfort in a lot of women, Especially women who are more feminist.
I love your questions, they give me a lot of ideas for my blog.”
Thanks. I think a ton about various social things, and societal, biological, science things and deep philosophical things. Maybe society is to blame, but this is one of the many reasons men find women confusing and things women say and do, as contradictions. This is not logical at all to my male mind. If 2+2=4, 2+3 should =5 right? (which it is obviously). If one is straight, they are sexually attracted to the opposite sex and not to the same sex. If that’s the case, then logically speaking one should be turned on by visual stimuli that consists of the opposite sex, but definitely not of people or only people of the same sex having sex. Not just porn, but it seems men’s minds go in a linear,which makes it seem more logical.
Well that makes sense from the unconcious part like when they attach a thing to their vaginas to test arousal. That makes sense as in a defense mechanism for women. But it doesn’t exactly if they consciously choose, see and are aroused by lesbian porn. I’ll come back to lesbian porn, but I’m glad you brought up lesbians and gay porn. Actually there are links and a decent number nowadays are of straight women watching gay porn. But this makes sense as in the voyeur perspective. A straight women sexually attracted to men, well logically then why couldn’t she like seeing nothing but men? Like straight men seeing lesbian porn. The confusing part is lesbians. Sure lesbians might appreciate not seeing women harmed or have some relation to gay porn, I don’t know which maybe they can disassociate the images and thing of sex with their woman,
But how do or can lesbians get turned on by gay porn and it not bother their eyes or interfere with any fantasy and like the visual? I’m not sure gay men probably are more appearance conscious so men in gay porn, probably have better bodies and are better looking. But I don’t know, I just can’t imagine men banging each other’s assses as a pleasant sight. I mean that’s not something many straight women want to see, so why would a lesbian woman who is not visually attracted or sexually attracted to men want to see or how could they ignore the “eye sore” to conjure any fantasy of another woman? Iknow lesbians can find men attractive, hot or handsome. I would watch Ellen Degeneres show and everyone knows she’s a lesbian. But many times she would say so and so guy is hot or good looking and she seemed to be able to admire men’s bodies, though not be attracted to men. But it’s one thing to find men attractive, it’s another thing to find them attractive enough to see them having sex with each other, which would seem that a woman would have to sexually attracted to a man to like or not be bothered by that visually speaking.
How do lesbians get turned on by gay porn?
Well, blood does seem to rush to the vagina when women watch sex of any sort, so maybe it aids them in that way. And many prefer gay porn over lesbian porn because they don’t get distracted by politics: seeing women as sex objects who are often used and abused.
And that might be a double standard. Maybe the women would defend themselves by saying that sexually objectified images of men are so uncommon in our culture that they don’t have a terribly negative effect on men, generally. And certainly lesbians are unlikely to start treating men like sex objects. Or, it could be an inconsistency. Humans are frequently inconsistent.
i like this post something that I actually experience myself, I think women do view women sexier then men. Not in a lesbian way or anything just something to admire that we can’t nesesarely do the same way to men.Men are hot too but women’s bodes just seem more interesting and i don’t think women like to admit it but they masturbate to lesbian porn or girl on girl or are they really doing it to get off on the guy???They are getting off from the women because iduno its hot there bodies are more fun to look at and they stand out more vs a male but that doesn’t at all mean your bi or lesbian .
This is kind of funny.
Half of the “straight” women say that they are experiment with women but they aren’t bi or lesbians because there is no sexual attraction.
They claim that the sexual attraction is what defines a woman as a bi or lesbian, not the bisexual behavior.
And the other half “straight” women say that they are attracted to women, they like masturbating to lesbian porn, they prefer the female body over the male body but they aren’t bi or lesbian because they don’t behave as bi or lesbian.
They claim that the sexual behavior is what defines a woman as a bi or lesbian, not the sexual attraction.
So which is it, sexual attraction or sexual behavior defines sexuality?
Anything which exists in different graduality and can vary can by some logic be called “learned”. But I honestly think it’s quite absurd that attraction is not natural. Breasts are just a prominent feature of overall “genderness”, which affects most visible features. You can’t learn all those features, but you can prefer them differently, And then this is more complex, because attraction in the sense of “arousal” is not the same as attractive or beautiful features. This probably makes sense from an evolutionary point of view, but an ideal also does. I think beautiful women are more “featured” than men, and in a way which is also associated with “aestheticism” whereas in men it’s more mixed, a different kind of beauty. But there can be an aesthetic which is more “pronouncedly” aesthetic.
So how do you explain women finding women sexier than men? Is this evolutionary? Is it natural? How do you explain Western women often experiencing a breast fetish, when tribal men don’t?
I certainly appreciated this article and has kind of restored my faith that women can be / are attracted to men. I must agree that the media is awful to both men and women. Men are depicted as bumbling idiots in nearly everything and you’ve covered quite nicely how women are portrayed. Did the researchers ever find a sexual preference when measuring clitoral blood flow?
No they didn’t.
I’m guessing that if your faith was restored that women are attracted to men it wasn’t because of this post, but because of one I referred to at the end of it:
Men Don’t Feel Sexy–and It Sucks.
You say many things about the media sexualisation of females but can you explain why this does not affect gay men?
Gay men do not feel anything watching women, doesn’t matter how sexy they are. Many women that identify themselves as “straight” watch lesbian porn, but gay men never watch lesbian porn and are not interested in breasts at all. Everything you say, is perhaps true in women, but is false in gay men, even though gay men are encouraged to be straight by society and are bombarded by pics of sexy women.
Women like to watch lesbian porn, women like breasts, many women find women sexier than men. Why doesn’t media affect gay men too? It debunks your theory.
Also, I know that that when gay men begin to take female hormone pills so as to become transsexual/transgender, many begin to have sexual feelings to women and become really surprised as they never did when they were gay. Another indication that many (NOT all) women are innately bisexual and that society has repressed this until now.
I’d like to hear your views.
Best guess:
Women’s bodies are responsive to EVERY sex signal they see — including bonobos (an ape species) having sex — while men’s bodies are not. Perhaps to protect vaginas from harm thru lubrication. And breasts have become a very strong sex signal in our culture (by being focused on obsessed about, etc). So it’s no surprise that women respond to them.
For men this flexibility doesn’t seem to come so easily. They don’t respond to EVERY sex signal they see. Monkeys having sex? No response. Maybe female hormones is what makes the difference?
Yet, straight men can come to associate VISUAL images of the penis with orgasm through conditioning (associating seeing the penis and orgasm). I guess gay men never come to associate breasts with orgasm.
Interesting, both a friend and I had this conversation not to long ago with one of our guy friends. Both my friend and I tend to check out other females yet we are not interested in women in any way, not bisexual, not lesbians. I personally believe that some of us women tend to look at other women through “male eyes.” This might be because we, like mostly everyone else is so caught up with how society expects a woman to look. We tend to check out other girls and even comment on their bodies. We’ve had men actually second guess us thinking we might be bi. Bombarded with all types of media I believe it might be considered normal at this point. Therefore, we tend to eye what’s expected of a woman figure, “perfect body.” I’ve realize that even in our conversations, my friend’s and I both feel like we should be looking like that perfect body we’re checking out not realizing that we’re both probably bringing our self esteem down rather than accepting how we look period.
well this is a very good reason why many of us straight men have a problem meeting a good woman for us nowadays, i very seriously think the lesbian population has increased dramatically over the years, especially having many women cursing at us for trying to start a conversation with the one that attracts us. and yes, this did happen to me already. and i known other men that had this happen to them as well. very obvious that many of us men that are straight would love to meet a good straight woman to have a life with. don’t you think?
This has nothing to do with lesbianism. The best way to meet women isn’t to approach women you don’t know. You may just scare them. Better to meet women who are friends of friends or who you work with or take a class with or a club.
this is a comment from jezebel
http://jezebel.com/5015942/are-all-women-a-little-bi-in-a-word-no
[“I believe sexuality is so constructed. If we were all raised on Disney movies that concluded in a fantastical kiss between two people of the same gender, I think we would approach sexuality in an extremely different way.”]
I agree with what the article says. But I didn’t see this quote you have in there.
Unclear why you keep sending me stuff about sexuality being socially constructed when I agree with that. I just think that there are a few biological limits.
I totally agree that women thinks women are sexier then men, even though not all of them see themselves as sexual objects. Women’s body is constantly being used in ads with low-cut clothes. According to Killing us softly, women are portrayed everywhere, from movies to ads on food packages, as a sexual-craving object who want to have sex in every moment in their life. Bombarded with these messages, it becomes undoubtable that women will regards themselves sexier than men. This is pretty sad to see this happening. When women see themselves in that way, it is less likely for women to seek their right as a women, because they see it as a normal thing.
Totally agree with you. When women are told to focus on being sexy, in addition to being unrealistically compared to supermodel bodies and faces, they never reach that silly goal, and they more importantly do not fulfil their full potential in areas of academia or creativity in which they may have excelled. Leaving the way clear for men (who haven’t had to focus on their looks) to be at the top.
Sadly true. Not sure men do this on purpose, but when women come to be so defined by sexual appeal, both women and men internalize this and women are harmed.
interesting topic see im not the onlyone on earth thinking about this.
im a man i find the appearince of pretty handsome man has a social effect
on my emotions. but seeing my self out of the social ranking a man has
a role to play on earth, the mediapictures the atractivity of men automatically.
georg cloony is atractive why see all those roles he plays in the movies he is someone.
a man has the mental and physical attitude to make the hard life easy.
womens apperiance is atracting me sexually beacause the body is sipmly better than
ours. the reason is that a man cant bring out a baby and feed it and have the ispiring
face to rase the infant that is 24/7 with her. the facefeaters of a women is full of emotions.
the beauty of her is a natural beauty and supporting.
To be honest, I want to be objective by the woman I’m with. I want her to love the sight of my ass and openly tell me how much she wants me. I guess it’s a problem of insecurity. But, I don’t care. If I didn’t want to hear the joyous love and sexual desires of my girlfriend / wife, I wouldn’t be in the relationship with her.
The thought of dating a bi-sexual woman, who actually prefers women more than men – they are out there – would make me feel very inadequate. How could I possibly live up to the sexual advantages of a woman’s body? I don’t have breasts, soft skin, a beautiful, bulbous butt or several holes without a penis. I mean, aside from muscles and a penis, I personally can’t see how and why men are attractive to women, given how little we have to offer. We’re natural protectors, and we’re designed to lift heavy objects – like pregnant women, when they need to be. That’s the only reason I can think of for an attraction to muscles. Unfortunately, given our modern culture, where women don’t need men anymore as much as they once did, men are more obsolete for their aesthetic value. It is literally becoming a matriarchy now.
For some reason, historically, human beings are more attracted (not just sexually) to those in power. If women are in power, it’s only natural for women to want women more than some lowly man, who is now, regarded as useless, pointless and possibly dangerous.
I’d like to see greater appreciation for the male body, but not in terms of narrow notions, of course. Many women would like to turn her guy on visually, too. So much so that they often get distracted by it, whether by forgetting about how they feel cause they’re so focused on what he sees or because they’re just worried that they don’t look good enough.
Just cause women aren’t turned on visually, though, doesn’t mean they don’t deeply desire you and want you. Men in tribal cultures aren’t visually turned on by women, but they love sex with them. And fetishes disappear in long term relationships. That doesn’t mean the couple isn’t deeply connected and in love and totally turned on.
“Women are not straight at all. However, heterosexuality exists in men. Since women feel sexual arousal watching both men and women, and men only feel sexual arousal watching images according to their sexual orientation, we know that the only sexual orientation that women have is bisexual.
You say many things about TV depiction of females and other things, BUT, can you explain why this DO NOT happen at all in gay men?
Gay men do not feel anything watching women, doesn’t matter how sexy they are. Too many women that identify themselves as “straight” watch lesbian porn. But gay men never watch lesbian porn. Gay men are not interested in the breast at all. Everything you say, is perhaps true in women, but is false at all in gay men, even though gay men are encouraged to be straigh by the society. If you can’t prove that what you say also happen in gay men too, your ideas are not correct. Women like to watch lesbian porn, women like the breast, women find women sexier than men, but is not because of the media and those things, is because women are naturally bisexual. Why the media doesn’t affect gay men too?”
Women naturally bisexual, really? Then why it was seen as natural in the antiquity and in the flowering of the islamic culture that men find women and men arousing? Its cultural and most women arent bisexual, most arent even straight.
PS.: Dont compare gay men to pseudo-straight women.
“Well, they were attracted to a nude man, but their bodies responded less than to a nude woman.”
I read the study and it said that women were attracted to nude men the same as to a picture of a forrest; NOT AT ALL. Thats why “straight” women consider men in erotic poses as gay.
Take a look at the research I cited. It says what I said, and not what you said.
“Their bodies give great feedback in terms of genital stimulation. But poor feedback in the mind. Meaning, a woman will be bodily/genitally turned on by watching bonobos have sex, yet feel no sexual arousal in her mind.
Even happens while watching humans, though. Women are less aroused mentally. That’s why guys watch so much porn and women don’t. Watching does much less to get women’s minds going. They need more, like a storyline. This may be culturally due to repression. In cultures where women aren’t repressed it’s much easier for them to get aroused in their minds. Consider Gauguin’s experience in Tahiti vs Victorian Europe.
For more on how sexual repression affects female sexual response, see these:”
They only need a “Storyline” because they dont really attracted to men due to our culture, lesbians watch porn nearly as much as men.
Well, men watch porn and lesbians watch gay porn for very different reasons. I was just writing on this. Did you see what I wrote above? You’d never get answers like that as to why men watch porn.
I’m afraid I don’t agree with you. Everything you say that happens with women, doesn’t happen with gay men. Also, doesn’t matter if you say that you are not intersted in having sex with women, if you feel sexual arousal with female images, it is more than enough to be bisexual, even if you don’t want to have sex with women. Also, women feel authentic sexual arousal when they watch lesbian porn. They want it to masturbate. But women do not want bonobos pornography to masturbate. That’s why your example is useless. Lesbian women masturbate watching gay male porn. Definitely, women are bisexual.
I’m bored answering these same comments over and over again. Please read what I’ve already written in my above replies.
It’s so nice that so many men understand and experience my sexuality better than I do.
Actually, you haven’t answered why even lesbian women watch gay male porn, and why women watch lesbian porn. Lesbian women do not receive any media influence to see men sexy, but so many of them watch gay male porn. And yes, if you feel sexual arousal with women, you are a bisexual, doesn’t matter if you don’t agree, but I don’t think it is a bad thing. Is ok to be bisexual. Why do lesbian women watch gay male porn? I don’t see the answer of this question in your above comments.
So I guess all women are into beastiality, too, since they also become physically aroused by that?
You don’t seem to get that actual women don’t interest me at all. I don’t pay attention to them that way. Being a guy you likely always associate the fetish with attraction to the woman who’s attached to the breasts. I don’t. It’s the breasts, only, that are arousing. I was in Nice, France, where some women were topless at a beach. I found that arousing but was not drawn to any of the actual women. I suspect a lot of the arousal came from knowing that a sexual breach had occurred: topless women in a public place, scandalous!
Tribal men are the opposite. They are drawn to women but don’t get aroused by breasts. So if they don’t get aroused by breasts that means they’re not hetero, right?
Some guys insist that, given the research, all women are either gay or bi. Yet tribal women aren’t aroused by breasts, either. So they’re the one exception to all women being lesbian or bi?
You can’t seem to understand that breasts have been made into such a strong sexual symbol in our culture that they provoke a fetish response in the West, on some level, among men and women alike, but not in places like tribal societies, where they are not sexualized.
Meanwhile, more than one woman has wanted to have sex with me but the thought of genital contact nauseates me. If I were bi that wouldn’t happen. Doesn’t happen with guys. I find myself not “getting” why some girls are attracted to girls. I know it happens and that’s fine. I just don’t get it. I can’t relate to it.
If despite all this it’s important to you believe that I’m bi, go right ahead. I’m interested in educating people but I’m tired of trying to explain something to you that it seems you’ll never understand. And if you don’t get it, it’s no big deal.
Why do straight women watch lesbian porn? The breast fetish and the fact that women and men both come to see women as the sexier sex, due to our culture, are the obvious answers.
Why do lesbians watch gay porn? Here’s what a few lesbians have to say about it:
From Jezebel: http://jezebel.com/5590592/so-why-did-the-lesbians-watch-gay-male-porn-in-the-kids-are-alright
“Our feminism remains with us when we grab the remote,” said Tristan Taormino, a sex educator and producer of erotica. “So when there’s no women around, it… gives queer women the ability to get swept up in the action of the film without thinking, ‘Who is this woman? Is she having a good time? Is she coerced?’ With gay porn, for a second, we can go there and not think about politics and sexism… there’s something about removing women from the equation that’s freeing.”
She added: “You don’t have to want to have sex with a man to be attracted to masculinity in a specifically sexual context.”
Alex (not her real name), who told me why she prefers watching gay male porn rather than straight pornography, or women with women. For one thing, she doesn’t find female porn stars attractive, no matter whether they’re starring in movies featuring men and women or girl-on-girl action. “There’s too much plastic surgery,” she said, adding that the women look “like cyborgs.” And the movies she watched were depressing. “It never seemed like they were having fun.”
From the Daily Beast: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2010/07/18/the-lesbians-who-love-male-gay-porn.html
For Alex, there are also deeper, less politically correct, desires at work. “For me, it’s partly about wanting to have a cock,” she said. “I’ve always been fascinated by the hydraulics—if I had a dick, how would it work?”
Other lesbians who came of age in the feminist and post-feminist era told me that the role assigned to women in straight pornography was frequently in opposition with the ideal they strived for in their daily lives, making the movies hard to watch.
“They’re not so much looking at the players in the play, but the roles that they’re playing.”
Others think that particular fascination is largely metaphorical, a chance to see desire externalized, a point Julianne Moore’s character actually makes in the movie. “I have no sexual attraction to men,” said the comedienne Judy Gold. “But I think there’s something about seeing a penis become erect that’s a turn-on for lesbians. Because what are you going to do with a woman? Get a telescope and a sponge and a paper towel?”
A few lesbians I spoke to suggested that the members of the tribe who watch gay porn are in fact getting off on a fantasy, in which the man is subjugated and used in the way women frequently are.
As Jen, another gay porn-loving lesbian, put it: “It’s a surrendering of male privilege. It throws a monkey wrench into the idea that women are receptacles.”
“It’s about power dynamics,” she said. “We’re so used to watching men in our lives wield power. Gay porn is an opportunity to watch them get f—–.”
So there you go.
NO! Women are not not bi! Lesbians watch gay porn because lesbian porn is bad acted and because they define straight sex as rape. So they watch gay porn,but they are not really attracted to men. Women arent bi, because 90% of women who define themselves as “straight” only desire to be desired, their bodies of 90% of “straight” women dont react to the male body, they only desired to be desired. Lesbians actually only watch gay porn, if they dont like lesbian porn, they dont masturbate to it, why wouldnt they desire to be with a man. What do you think about a man who watches kiddie-porn and defines himself as straight?
Nonsense.
That idiot above who said that science proved that all women are bisexual. That’s garbage.
How come in ancient times there were loads more bisexual men than women?
Worldwide there are a lot of bisexual men. Although in western society there are more bisexual women than bisexual men.
Every woman isn’t bisexual. It’s just that more women born in the 1980s or 1990s are more likely to be bisexual than a woman born in the 1960s.
To Broadblogs,
You are a great person but you aren’t straight.
Straight women don’t get aroused by bodies of women in no form or fashion.
You’re bisexual.
If you claim to be anything other than 100 percent straight, you’re at least bisexual, male or female.
A woman who is overly emotional or overly masculine in her admiration of females, is bisexual.
Any women who engages in any lesbian form of behavior such as making out with girls, grinding on women on the dance floor or watches lesbian porn is bisexual.
More and more young women are affected by the promotion of lesbianism in the media and it’ll only get worse.
A straight woman likes mens bodies period infinitely times more than a woman’s body.
And I’m a straight guy btw.
I’m so bored responding to this same comment over and over again. Please see my responses above.
Women are not straight at all. However, heterosexuality exists in men. Since women feel sexual arousal watching both men and women, and men only feel sexual arousal watching images according to their sexual orientation, we know that the only sexual orientation that women have is bisexual.
You say many things about TV depiction of females and other things, BUT, can you explain why this DO NOT happen at all in gay men?
Gay men do not feel anything watching women, doesn’t matter how sexy they are. Too many women that identify themselves as “straight” watch lesbian porn. But gay men never watch lesbian porn. Gay men are not interested in the breast at all. Everything you say, is perhaps true in women, but is false at all in gay men, even though gay men are encouraged to be straigh by the society. If you can’t prove that what you say also happen in gay men too, your ideas are not correct. Women like to watch lesbian porn, women like the breast, women find women sexier than men, but is not because of the media and those things, is because women are naturally bisexual. Why the media doesn’t affect gay men too?
The problem with your 1st theory is that you are assuming women are more like men than they are. When a man experiences the breast fetish he simultaneously desires the woman who is attached to the breasts. But straight women will have some sexual response to breasts without having any desire for the woman who is attached to them. My whole life I’ve only been attracted to men while women seem boring to me, sexually.
Meanwhile, in tribal societies men don’t experience the breast fetish, yet are sexually drawn to women.
On you other question contrasting women to gay men, women’s bodies are responsive to EVERY sex signal they see — including bonobos (an ape species) having sex — while men’s bodies are not. (So all women are into beastiality, too?) Breasts have become a non-biological sex signal in our culture, so now women respond to them.
For men this flexibility doesn’t come so easily. They don’t respond to EVERY sex signal they see. Monkeys having sex? No response. BUT, straight men can come to associate VISUAL images of the penis with orgasm (penises jacking off is frequently portrayed in porn), leaving some straight men finding the penis arousing over time. By contrast, I guess gay men don’t come to associate breasts with orgasm.
Just for a quick clarification, when women are aroused by something — bonobos having sex or whatever — they don’t necessarily feel it in their minds even though their genitals are responding. Scientists think women genitally respond to every sexual stimulus in order to protect their vaginas from harm. So sometimes the mind is also aroused, sometimes it is not.
[“How come in ancient times there were loads more bisexual men than women?”]
Because sexual orientation can be learned.
In ancient times men were taught to be bisexual so they became bisexual.
In modern times women are taught to be bisexual.
You said it yourself, in ancient times there were more bisexual men. Everything can be learned.
Just like Pavlov’s dog did.
I agree although I would say that we learn to repress our sexualities. So women who have natural bisexual or lesbian tendencies will repress them in a culture that values heterosexuality and that shames bisexuality or lesbianism. And men will repress any tendencies they have in cultures that shame anything other than heterosexuality.
[“It’s just that more women born in the 1980s or 1990s are more likely to be bisexual than a woman born in the 1960s.”]
Exactly. Because the sexual orientation can be learned from the media and the culture. Nowdays, the media show so much lesbian images, so that most of the females learn to act as bisexuals even if they identify themselves as “straight”, stil they act as bisexuals.
You said it yourself.
In ancient times there were more bisexual men and women born in 80s and 90s are more likely to be bisexual that the women born in 60s. It’s all because of the media.
If this thing continues, sooner all later the majority of the females will be bisexual because that’s what the media are teaching them to be from a young age.
As I mentioned before, I agree although I would say that we learn to repress our sexualities. So women who have natural bisexual or lesbian tendencies will repress them in a culture that values heterosexuality and that shames bisexuality or lesbianism. And men will repress any tendencies they have in cultures that shame anything other than heterosexuality.
The sexualization of women may well play a role here.
Hmm this is all very confusing to me since I do not find women’s bodies sexy in any way, I am a straight woman and drool over sexy male models. I have no interest in other women’s breasts or body parts…ew.
I have no interest in other women’s bodies at all and I actually get annoyed when so many women’s bodies are flashed on tv and not as many men, I find men’s bodies very sexy and most attractive and I have no idea why you are stating women get turned on by other women I think the study you tried to talk about being hooked up vaginally blah blah blah… it’s a lie to be quite honest with you. Straight women are into men. I don’t care how many people are into women’s bodies or how many movies or commercials flaunt them, I am straight and into MEN and most straight women are. Period.
Well, this is a cultural pattern and there is a bell curve as well as gradations of experiencing this.
There may also be different understandings of terms:
With regard to the post you are commenting on, I doubt any straight women drool over other women and yet their bodies are still seen “sexier” in our society. As I think I mentioned in this post, sometimes when I ask why women are more objectified, women students often say that women’s bodies are just sexier. And I tell them I don’t think that that’s a natural state of things, but rather, something we’ve been socialized to see. And in this post I’m trying to explain how that socialization happens.
But I think you are referring to “women learn the breast fetish too.” You can argue with science all you want. It’s still there. Believe it or not.
But again, a misunderstanding: just because women get more aroused by breasts doesn’t mean that women want to have sex with women. Just because they’ve learned the breast fetish doesn’t mean that their sexual orientation has changed. Generally women understand this and men don’t because in men’s experience they always associate the fetish with a desire for the woman who is attached to the breasts. Women don’t do this. The breast draws attention and seems slightly arousing, but the woman who is attached to them is not actually very interesting to them. They certainly don’t want to have sex with them. If they do then they’re bi or lesbian, not a straight woman who’s learned the fetish.
Both men and women in our culture learn the fetish – unlike in other cultures where neither learn it. That’s because breasts are constantly focused on in a sexual way by the camera, by comments, by clothing. They are hidden and revealed at the same time, creating curiosity and a feeling that they are something sexual, hidden, and therefore, sexually intriguing. In a culture that does that how could women and men not both learn the fetish?
I’m also surprised at your reaction because your name is Ryan and it is typically men who write comments like the one you wrote above. They just pose the argument differently: “I don’t believe women feel this way…”
I also suggest you read more of the responses I’ve made above. May help you understand more, if you are interested.
[“But again, a misunderstanding: just because women get more aroused by breasts doesn’t mean that women want to have sex with women. Just because they’ve learned the breast fetish doesn’t mean that their sexual orientation has changed.”]
But their actions show the opposite. Many -so called- straight female do have bisexual acts, for whatevere reason, a phase, experimentation, for the fun of it.
Just like the breast fetish can learned, the same way the sexual orientation can be learned.
I think that is true for women whose lesbian or bi-sexuality has been repressed — as in this culture — but which are becoming unrepressed as the culture becomes more accepting of women’s bisexuality and lesbianism. For women who are more naturally straight that wouldn’t work.
Consider the fact that children who have been molested are more likely to be homosexual. If a girl has some flexibility but she’s never been molested she will probably go through her life thinking that she is straight because almost all of our socialization is heterosexual. But if a man molests her and she associates sex with men as disgusting — and she has some flexibility — then she has other options. She could be in a lesbian relationship. But women who don’t have flexibility and are naturally straight tend to become asexual because they don’t have any options.
It could be that there’s much more flexibility than we know.
You get more aroused seeing a nude woman’s body than a nude man… and you’re straight?? good joke, congratulations!!
Women who say that they are “straight” are actually bisexual. Heterosexuality is not a thing that exist in women. A man can be gay, or straight, but no woman is straight, every woman is bisexual, and you have the scientific information that proves this. Women get aroused seeing women and men… that is called BISEXUALITY. Is not a bad thing, but every woman is bisexual, scientific research proves that.
I’ve been through this before. Possibly with you and you’ve already forgotten. See above responses. Since men associate a breast fetish with an attraction to actual women many can’t conceive of the fetish existing without the attraction. Oh well, too bad.
You get more aroused seeing a nude woman’s body than a nude man… and you’re straight?? jajaja That’s what I’m talking about… Those are very good news for us. Because every woman is bisexual, we men can make threesomes whenever we want!!
So, I have a question for you wich is interesting.
Every man loves female bisexuality. And every woman is bisexual. Do you think this is an evolutive biological thing?
Men naturally are attracted by women, we like female features, and one of them is the bisexuality. That’s why we men are crazy about female bisexuality, because females are bisexual. What do you think?
What you don’t get is that the breast fetish is learned by both men and women. It’s not natural for either.
Men in tribal societies don’t experience the breast fetish. When men were exposed to a lot of topless women in advertising and topless beaches in Europe in the late 70s/early 80s the fetish diminished for men. (Actually topless women were used in advertising because both men and women looked. With the overexposure, both stopped looking. It all became so blasé.) I knew European guys in America who wondered why American men were so obsessed w/breasts – what’s the big deal? When men are overexposed to porn they also start seeing the breast as no big deal and need something more extreme to get aroused.
The fetish is created by selectively hiding and revealing. Being taught that something is naughty/forbidden to see, and sexual at the same time.
See this post: Women Learn the Breast Fetish, Too
Hetero men combine a learned breast fetish with a natural sexual preference for women. But hetero women are combining a learned breast fetish with a natural preference for men.
As I said, while I can find breasts arousing, my sexual desire is for men, not women. In fact, I find the thought of the sex act with a woman nauseating. I found that out when a boyfriend once asked me to have a threesome. He asked because a very pretty woman (who everyone knew was bi but preferred women) had come on to me at a party. I was not worried that she and my boyfriend would get together since we both knew that she was more interested in me than him. So I was not jealous.
But when I tried to imagine sex with her, even though she was very pretty it felt nauseating. (Keep in mind that I had never been interested enough to fantasize about sex with a woman before.) I wasn’t really interested in her, but I was obsessed with him, so all I felt was hurt that he wanted to be with someone else.
I told him that I wanted to have a threesome with him and another man, instead. Then it was his turn to feel disinterest and hurt and he dropped it.
If all women were bisexual, then all women would desire sex with women and want threesomes. I’m wondering how much success you’ve had finding women willing to do that. And since one of my students said she used to feigned bisexuality to try to get guys (note, GUYS were her goal) I’m wondering how many of them were even actually interested in the girl.
Yeah I’m beginning to wonder about the validity of the ‘straight, bi, homosexual’ categorisation. While we’re different, I think looking at the behaviour of Bonobos and chimps gives us clue as to what is most natural in terms of evolution, as well as primitive society. What i get is: bisexuality is largely a cultural thing, and that most human beings, both males and females, have the potential to find the other gender erotic. The thing with 21st century America, however, is that one has been totally repressed (male bisexuality) while the other celebrated. Heck, you read comments where women thought that a man appearing gay was a turn-off. I don’t get it, if women really viewed men as erotic, they’d get turned on by male/male. They’ve been influenced by male chauvinistic views. I’m a straight guy but I’ve realised my potential to be aroused by men, but it’s just so insignificant, and the idea of actually having sex with a man well…most of the time it doesn’t turn me on. Not anal, at least. Then again maybe I’m bi because I crave being dominated, and I do wonder if I can be truly dominated by a woman as opposed to another man. The sexualization of the female form and the female gender in general has made most people believe that women are someone objectively sexier (I even read a quip on a site that ‘girls are sexy, everyone knows it. boys, girls, even animals.’ It goes back to this idea that even animals (like King Kong or say dogs) might be sexually interested in female human beings, because in the myopic straight male worldview who doesn’t like titties?
I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a good deal of fluidity. Heteros in prison start thinking the same sex looks pretty darn good. Though the preference may well be the opposite sex. And women getting turned off by sexy guys cause sexy guy-poses look gay has got to be cultural.
An awful lot of sex seems to revolve around the social construction of sexuality.
As a result of the male chauvinist society where we have lived for more than two millenniums, women have many disadvantages.We men are kings and women are just “something”, our will is always done. That’s why a man has to prove that he is a man, but a woman doesn’t have to prove that she is a woman, because being a man is a big privilege, but being a woman is nothing important. It is not my opinion, but is the chauvinist society opinion (actually I don’t agree with this).
As a man, I can attract many women. I have been always happy because of this :). If I were a woman, for example, a lesbian, I’d NEVER attract women like a man can. jeje
that´s why I think being a man is the biggest fantasy of every lesbian!
Also, being a man is incredibly fun. No matters if a man is ugly, he will attract women. That’s why what you say in your posts doesn’t matter. We men are the best to attract women!! (and women desire our bodies a lot)
I guess you’ll be surprised to know that I agree with you on everything except: “We men are kings and women are just “something”, our will is always done.” There’s far more equality today between women and men than this suggests, though we still live in a patriarchal society that, on balance, advantages men.
And since about 95% of women are straight I’m sure it’s easier for men than lesbians to attract women, but I don’t know of any lesbians who want to be men.
And in THIS post (vs “women learn the breast fetish too”) I’m not even talking about arousal. I’m just saying that our society/media sexualizes women so much more often than men, that even women start to think of women as the sexy ones. (“Sexy,” not “she turns me on/arouses me.”) In other words, women are seeing women as sexier symbolically, as what “women” mean in society. Not in the flesh on a personal level. And that strange twist comes thanks to a society that is screwed up.
Re “That’s why what you say in your posts doesn’t matter.” I have no idea why you take it personally or see it as a threat. Yes, women get more aroused by photos of women’s breasts than men’s chests (see “women learn the breast fetish too”). That’s also because our society is screwed up.
The reason the post matters is that it is a critique of our society. I’d very much like to see our culture celebrate the male body more. You never seemed to get that. You also don’t seem to understand my last reply to you, where I’m clear that hetero women are still more attracted to actual men than to actual women (people vs photos/symbolic ideas).
Otherwise, I have no idea whether you, personally, are as attractive as you say you are. But I’ll take your word for it.
Ok, I’m gonna tell you it only one more time. Women are not more aroused by female images than by male images. Is exactly the same, if the man is erect.
Thank God, because if you tell me any more times I’ll just delete it.
You missed the whole point of this post. I’m saying that because of the way our society sexualizes women and ignores men, women appear to all of us as the sexy half of society, to the detriment of both women and men. And when just looking at naked bodies, not watching sex ( you need to get that there’s a difference) women appear both sexier and more arousing. Apparently that’s ok with you and you’d prefer I stop making the critique.
Yes, is true, women feel the same while watching lesbian, or gay porn, they do not feel more turned on by female images. That’s why I also disagree with this “95% of women are straight”
Actually, the Meredith Chivers research and other more, have shown that all, absolutelly all women are bisexual.
They are turned on with women and men, while men are turned on only with images according with their sexual orientation.
In fact, every woman is bisexual. No one understands why the vast majority of them have sex only with men. Straight women do not exist.
From my personal experience I’d say that while our bodies may respond the same when watching sex of either sex, our minds want to be with men, if we’re hetero. I get more aroused seeing a nude woman’s body than a nude man, yet the thought of having a sexual relationship with a woman bores me. Could be that as Chivers says, the arousal of the body to an erect penis or watching sex is meant to protect our bodies. But that is different from desire.
Hello. I know very well this topic. And I certainly disagree with the way you’re showing the results of Meredith Chivers’s research. First of all, you say that women feel more aroused watching a woman than watching a man, and that’s untrue! The research showed women feel equally aroused with every one of the videos they watched, including bonobos pornography!
Meredith Chivers said it doesn’t mean every straight woman is actually a bisexual. They actually are aroused with men as with women, which is also a very weird thing, but is not true what you say “women don’t feel aroused with men” or “women feel more aroused with women than with men”
I’m afraid you read Chivers as astutely as you read my post.
I never said that women who were aroused by breasts/women’s bodies were bisexual. I called them HETERO women who were aroused by women’s breasts/bodies. And while women are more aroused, VISUALLY, by women (they’re trained by the culture to do this — just as men are — the breast fetish is LEARNED by men, it’s not natural), that doesn’t mean that in bed they aren’t aroused by men — or MORE aroused by men than women. There are ways of becoming aroused other than visual cues.
As I explained in a recent comment to someone else: hetero women seem to be aroused by seeing breasts, without necessarily having any desire to have sex with a woman. (I don’t have any desire to have sex with a woman, for instance, although I’ve experienced the breast fetish.) I guess that’s confusing. But biologically hetero women want sex with men.
In her research, Chivers found that on surveys women SAID they found men more attractive, but when wired up, their vaginas responded least strongly to the fit, naked man and the bonobos.
She came up with one possible biological explanation for why this happened (as I explained in another post) though she says she doesn’t know for sure why hetero females respond more strongly to a female than to a male. I offered an alternative sociological explanation that would not occur to her, not being familiar with socialization/effects of culture. Sometimes it helps to be familiar with disciples outside your own in order to stretch your mind and consider other possibilities.
I wish our culture celebrated the male body more, I think it’d be better for both women and men. (Though not narrow notions of beauty like women now face.)
Go back and read my post.
And really, go back and read Chivers, too:
Also, read these posts:
Men: Erotic Objects of Women’s Gaze
Men, Women React to Male/Female Nudity
Why Aren’t Male Strippers Sexy?
Gays Find Strippers Sexy; Women Don’t?
Magic Mike Turns Tables on Objectification, Desire
Man as Object: Reversing the Gaze
Women Gazing At Men
David Beckham’s Sex Sells
As Meredith Chivers research showed, although women body is “sexier” in our society, when women watch a guy or a woman masturbating, they felt THE SAME arousal. are you going to say that it is not true?
That’s a completely different issue. That’s watching sex, not looking at a body.
Hi again, it’s John I came back here after reading something else, I wanted to share your article actually on Facebook. Actually my first question is to Patricia. What makes a male body seem ‘gay’ to you and why does this turn you off? Is a man showing off his god-given assetts gay simply because he celebrates being a sexual being?
I was watching a documentary about a tribe in Africa and I’d be curious as to see if a similar test was done to being who habitually go around with little or no clothing on. My hunch is there’s no real ‘breast fetish’ in this culture, or even a nudity culture. Perhaps this whole idea that men are more visual is actually partly culturally conditioned too? i wonder if you’ve considered this. If men seeing naked women all the time, it becomes no big deal, so they have other ways of getting turned on. My hunch is that both men and women in these tribes would be less aroused by images of naked body, but perhaps aroused by the images of sexual activity. These men, like women, might be more turned on by other sensory stimuli. It’s simplistic to say men are purely visual: a man gets turned on by other things too. The sound of his lover’s voice, her caress, sharing emotional intimacy. We’re not all that different to women, I think.
I’m glad you would like to share.
Hopefully Patricia’s subscribed to these comments and will respond.
As I recall, she finds the male body, in person, very sexy. She doesn’t find it sexy in pics.
If not, you might find these helpful:
re this: I was watching a documentary about a tribe in Africa and I’d be curious as to see if a similar test was done to being who habitually go around with little or no clothing on. My hunch is there’s no real ‘breast fetish’ in this culture
see these:
This last post suggests that men being visual is culturally conditioned, yes.
“These men, like women, might be more turned on by other sensory stimuli. It’s simplistic to say men are purely visual: a man gets turned on by other things too. The sound of his lover’s voice, her caress, sharing emotional intimacy. We’re not all that different to women, I think.”
Yes. And that happends w/men in log relationship as the fetish for his wife’s breasts diminish.
Also see (which get into the non-visual):
Being Sexual vs Looking Sexual
Wanting “X” from Sex, but Doing “Y”
You seem to have misunderstand me. If you show me a random picture of a penis, without seeing the rest of the man, I’m not interested. I think the rest of the human body is more pleasant, male or female, to look at than someone’s genitals. However, if he’s hot, and if there’s nothing repulsive about is penis, if it’s aesthetecly pleasant to look at, then in those situations I’ve found myself getting turned on by it. I associate it with sex. I think that’s the key. What matters is if I am attracted to the guy. Like one man has allready said, the sigth of a vagina alone doesn’t turn him on. A vagina is no better to look at than a penis. I’ve actually met guys who were offendend when girls made fun and said penis were ugly. A lot of them said, vagina’s are only good to look at in porn, in real life the average woman’s vagina isn’t that nice to look at. That it was rather ugly.
Stil I rarely find pictures of men arousing, naked or with little clothes, because many times they either look gay, or the guy is to buff and has a unrealistic body. Or the way they are represented makes them look like a sexual object rather than a person. What I really like is to watch either movies, series, or just plain videos on youtube with young sexy men without their shirts. My favorite look is a low cut jeans or boxer briefs. And all of my female friends agree with me.
I’ve allways found weird that men, either gay or straight, seem to reduce the objects of their desire to body parts, instead of admiring them as a whole. It’s dehumanising.
I read these comments, and hearing that these studies have found that women think the female form is sexier, and that allot of women here agree, if I were a guy and I kept hearing this, I would be really depressed and sad to know that no woman could ever simple desire me. Only a gay men could desire me. To be desired is a big turn on, and I don’t think is only women who like it, men want to feel sexy too.
I simply needed to voice my opinion on this, because I don’t agree with it at all. If any men reads this, please know that at least this woman loves gorgeus men and finds them very pleasant to look at.
You seem to think I want you to agree with me. I’m not sure what that means. I don’t expect you to experience men the way that women commonly do — and it actually sounds like you are pretty typical when looking at still pictures.
I want you to be however you are. In fact, I wish more women got turned on by the male body, which is the point of a series of posts I’ve written.
You’re right, many men get depressed by all this.
I think it should be depressing to women, too. Which is why I’d like to see it change. I’d like to see our culture celebrate the male boy more.
Hi Patricia. Don’t worry about us! We guys are super attractive to women, a lot! 🙂
I have the good look to be a handsome guy, and have to many female fans! I have been always attractive to women, and I know women love us very much! as much as gay guys love us, jajaa 🙂
as a woman, you have seen many times how a woman who is in love with a guy behaves, and they are crazy about us, they feel aroused with our caresses, with our contact!!
Meredith Chivers research means that women feel aroused with every sexual image, because they were forced to have sex during centuries, so they react to any sexual thing, but they actually love men incredibly much!! jaja, and I know that very well! and the vast majority of women only can fall in love with men, because the vast majority of them are straight. A straight woman will NEVER feel this to a woman, NEVER 🙂 best regards
Meredith Chivers study showed that women arent attracted to the sight of a man, either you are extremely beatiful, hung and uncut or you are a pro at dating and flirting with women, or you met mainly the 10% of women who are really into men, The culture influences our sexuality alot: 90% of males and females are gynophile, 10% of males and females are androphile.
Well, they were attracted to a nude man, but their bodies responded less than to a nude woman.
Well I’ve been reading all of your comments and I cannot believe the amount of stereotypical bullsh*t and sincerely allot of you people sound confused. I’m sorry “Women learn the breast fetish too”????? I’m not attracted to tits, they are overrated. “Women reacted more to the sight of a naked woman than a naked men”? How did they measure the level of arousal? Did they measure the flow of blood to the clitoris?? How???
What I like, what I’ve always liked ever since the onset of puberty are beautiful ripped chests (not too muscular just toned), flat stomach (not too much of a six-pack), broad shoulders, muscular backs, tight round butts and I love those pelvic bones in a v shape right above their dicks, it gets me horny. I never needed to be constantly surrounded by erotic representations of the male shape to be atractted to it I simply am. It’s not a choice. The hottest picture of a man that I’ve ever seen was of Kellan Lutz wearing only a low cut jeans that were so low that you could almost see his dick. The sight of him was very arousing for me and I often fantasize about it. When I feel aroused what I feel is my body heating, that heavy feeling deep in my chest, and I
feel the clitoris swelling and throbbing. Only after do i start to get wet. Sometimes the swelling lasts for only a few seconds.
The problem with Playgirl is that many times when taking erotic pictures of men, they make them look effeminate or gay and that is a turn off. Either that or the guys are too buff with unrealistic bodies. It’s a problem that I encounter quite often.
Someone said that women don’t get aroused by the sight of dick. Well I do. When was younger, I was curious so I started going to women’s erotica sites, and there was this guy completely naked, he was actually very sexy, and was holding his rather long and thick penis, and I got to say the mere sight of it really turned me on. I didn’t find it repulsive at all. It was the first time and to this day I say I LIKE HUNKS and I like dick and I think it’s a very erotic part of the human body. Some penises are repulsive then again so are some vaginas.
I had about some years ago a conversation with one of my best friends that if you put a beautiful man and beautiful woman naked next to each other the female form was more aesthetically pleasant to look at than the male form. I told her that I disagreed and asked why she thought that way. She said well men are hairy. I said so are women we just shave, and if women didn’t shave well a lot of that supposed superior beauty of women that we constantly see in adds and movies wouldn’t be so superior now would it? She then said well that a dick wasn’t that pleasant to look at that she preferred butts and that women’s genitals were not so “in one’s face”. And I said to her that she was a prude, immature and told that in many cases when I see a hot men completely naked the sight of his dick did turned me own. I’m being really honest here.
Different strokes for different folks.
Not everyone will be exactly the same due to different genetics and different experiences, so that an assortment of personalities and ways of seeing arise as a result.
But strong patterns do arise among humans of similar cultures, and according to research you’re quite unusual. Sounds like you’re even unusual among your friends and acquaintances.
That’s neither good nor bad, but you’re an outlier, and you shouldn’t be accusing others of being crazy for living in a culture that teaches them that women are the sexy half of the species.
I’d very much like to see the sexism that lies behind that change (and nothing will if no one says anything)
If most women got so turned on by penises they’d surely be googling penises on the Internet, but a researcher who studied what men and women google founf that they don’t. Here’s a little on that
And here’s the research on what arouses women:
When women were given surveys most said they were turned on by men. But their vaginas were also wired up. And that objective data told a very different story. More blood rushed to the vagina when women saw nude women than nude men.
For more evidence, see these links:
Women learn the breast fetish, too
Men, women react to male/female nudity
The New York Times on women and desire
Am I outlier? Maybe I am. I still question that. Maybe my head thinks more like a man than a woman. Or maybe I’m just a horndog and a pervert, wich I’ve been told that I am. I’ve always questioned what society expects us to be or what to do and I’ve never been one to follow and do what everybody else does. I have my own head to think and I’m not easily influenced by others.
As for the studies, well I don’t know what your area of expertise is, but I studied biology and ecology in college. In those fiels statistics are very important, specially in ecology. And one of my teachers always told us is that statistics aply to populations not individuals. I’ve spent the last 7 years constantly reading scientific papers and writing some too just for college. Not only is the size of the sample important, but also the sampling methods that you use to collected data and the way you treat it. And many times it’s really hard to reach any conclusions at all. You may find yourself writing or reading in a paper in that either the sampling methods are not effective, or that were variables that were impossible to control, and they may end up skewing the results. You have to consider all of this and much more. My teachers have always told that drawing conclusions from human behaviour it’s very complex and really hard, the field of sociology is even more complex than ecology, and not to believe every thing you read.
From a personal point of view, Women and their feminity turns me off, I’m not interested. Usually when a see a erotic picture of video of a beutiful woman, I’m either really jealous and envy her or just say “Another naked sexy woman, pfff boring!” and am usually quite annoyed. I guess I’ve becomed desensitized from it. Like I said, I didn’t need for men to be constantly being represented in an erotic way, to be atractted to goodlooking men, I just am, ever since puberty.
You can’t group people according to gender (or anything else really), put labels on them and expect every single one of them to be the same. I’m sorry to tell that just doesn’t work. When you do that, people get kind of angry, like I did in my previous angry post (sorry about that).
Let’s just agree to disagree, shall we? As for women googling for penises or sexy men naked, I still do from time to time. What can I do, I have a perverted mind, more than a lot of other women it seems. lol
You seem to see “outlier” as an accusation. It’s not. No one that I know of would call you a pervert — well except some of my more conservative acquaintances.
There are large patterns in society and not everyone fits into the most common categories. And those who do usually have not consciously chosen to — any more than those who don’t. They aren’t doing what society expects when blood rushes to the vagina more when seeing a nude female than nude male. They have no control over that bio response.
The studies looking at how women behave when wired up aren’t statistical, it’s a different methodology. And these women seem to have behaved very similarly to one another. the google searches aren’t statistical either. There’s simply a record of all searches.
Sorry, but I haven’t seen any studies that capture women like you who get aroused looking at penines, suggesting they’re rare. That doesn’t mean you’re the only one or that there is anything wrong with you.
My area of expertise is sociology–I have a Ph.D. From UCLA. Sociology studies patterns of behavior in society, how invisible structures affect us, how the word has very little inate meaning (mostly we create meanings, and different societies create meanings in different ways). We also study how society unconsciously ends up in our minds so that we unwittingly do as society says. These patterns can’t be broken until they become visible.
Im concerned with how women almost always see women as the sexy half of the species. I believe women’s sexuality would benefit from seeing men as sexier than we, as a society, currently do.
hey Patricia,
You are awesome. Girls like you are the best. Im the opposite of you. Im a guy that has a very feminine sexuality, and your sexuality is so perfect for me. You arent that rare, you should check out the label girlfag. The german girlfag forum is reli popular. Your sexuality is masculine, and you enjoy objectifying men, and hate being looked at by guys in a sexual way.
Theres loads of us out there, but we are silent, and people just think we are just like them.
I guess most women don’t realise they are gay just few are straight!
Well, you’re confusing natural sexuality with a socially learned fetish. There is so much sexual focus on female breasts in Western culture (a focus on something defined as sexual that is intriguingly hidden and revealed) so that both men and women develop a breast fetish, to differing degrees. While the male body goes ignored and unfetished. And fetishes tend to drive more blood to sexual organs.
That doesn’t actually turn a hetero woman into a lesbian. She is hetero and more sexually attracted to men than to women, but she experiences some degree of a breast fetish, as well.
But because of a difference in physiology, men don’t seem to need a fetish in order to feel highly aroused by seeing a nude body.
So you’re confused only because this is so confusing!
“Well, you’re confusing natural sexuality with a socially learned fetish.” He didnt said that is natural or unnatural he just said that western women dont desire men, which is ture, he did not ask why.
No. I know from personal experience that women can be extremely, obsessively attracted to men.
then it if this was the case, why is it that gay males seem to be un affected by females. i just think these females here are kinsey 5 females. attracted more to guys personalities but more into women bodies. time to cross the river Nile ladies
Why don’t gay men respond to breasts when straight women do?
This is something I’ve been meaning to write about – in the back of my mind, but I keep forgetting — so thanks for giving me the impetus.
It may be that women’s bodies are just more responsive to any sex signal, but in contradictory ways. Their bodies respond to everything, including bonobos (an ape species) having sex. Once they see something as a sexual signal, they respond to it. And they have learned that breasts are a sex signal.
Men, on the other hand, don’t seem to have this same flexibility. Though, as I write in a piece that will be posted next week, men can come to visually associate the penis with orgasm, leaving some straight men finding the penis arousing over time. I guess gay men don’t come to associate breasts with orgasm.
Problem is, women’s bodies don’t give them very good feedback. They are aroused but often don’t know they are. Which could have something to do with repression given that I know I was better able to respond to visual stimulus and I was very young, and other women too, as I mentioned in my post.
Here’s where it really gets strange. Women do seem to be aware of getting turned on by breasts.
When I put my piece entitled “Women Learn the Breast Fetish, Too” https://broadblogs.com/2010/11/29/women-learn-the-breast-fetish-too/ on StumbleUpon, it received a 97% “like” rating. That was among all men, all women, all ages. So women must be able to relate. I also get a lot of traffic on my blog from women searching for phrases like, “I’m straight but I get aroused by boobs,” or women asking forums like Yahoo Answers why it is that they feel straight yet get aroused my boobs. (People then refer them to my post.)
I can only suppose that this is because there is nothing in our culture that is a stronger sex signal than breasts.
This is a great article. I agree totally. Last year i went through a dark 6 month period of gender dysphoria, and was very alienated from my own male body. Im a feminine male, and i felt that the only way to express this femininity was through looking like a female. I was hurt by mass media telling me that as a male, i could never be beautiful.
Ive since invested alot of time studying male beauty and feel reunited with my anatomy. I think a huge proportion of the world see through the tinted glasses of heteronormativity, and the stereotyped straight male.
I’m so glad that you’ve been able to work your way through this.
Women have a similar problem in that they often feel that only a narrow notion of female physicality is beautiful, and that they don’t fit it. Many women are harmed or working their way through that.
Thank you for sharing your experience with this as a male.
Well it said that women watching the strolling man was as exciting as viewing landscapes…I think men even more than women associate nudity with sex, so that’s why men would expect women to be turned on by it. I would really like to see the man in the picture, though. Do you think if a gorgeous, buff, tanned naked guy was strolling down the beach women would be more turned on? Would women still get more aroused by say an average looking woman?
I’ve often wondered what it’s like to be the opposite sex. Since to men being ‘turned on’ usually means having an erection, it’s a pretty simple on/off deal. I’ve heard about the signs of arousal with women, but I always wondered if women really had an equivalent to the male erection. Is the clitoral ‘erection’ really analogous? Most female animals for instance SEEM pretty disinterested in sex: like are attracted to the male, and are receptive, but after the act is done (often even a few seconds) she just goes away. Of course humans and higher apes are different to dogs, so maybe in these societies women developed something like the male sex drive. Females in bonobo society, seem to practice a lot of sex at all times. Bisexuality is universal among all bonobos. In the animal kingdom though it seems males are the ones with the ‘sex drives’ or ‘libidos’, even to the extent that male bisexuality/homosexuality seems alot more common in the animal kingdom than female bisexuality. Which is why in humans I believe there are probably about an equal number of men and women who are flexible about gender (most have a definitely preference though), as in bonobos. If all bonobos (and maybe even chimpanzees) practice homosexuality, perhaps this is innate in humans in their natural state too, but is curtailed by social and religious regulations/rules and social conditioning.
Women rarely have an erection equivilent. Their bodies don’t give good feedback, compared to the male body. That’s likely why their surveys didn’t match their bodily reactions. But women’s sexuality is more repressed in our culture, too, which is certainly playing a role. In pro-sex (for men AND women) women are highly orgasmic and love sex.
Fuck no, a lubrication is the equivalent to a boner, of course their bodies gives feedback, I mean the nature made it that way controlled by our minds so we can make babies. Women dont get turned on by sex, this problem has nothing to do that they are “repressed”, in our culture sex is always from the male point of view and women want to be like the women shown on TV etc. In antique pornography female ejaculation were highly reprsented, it helps the cum of the men to come to the womb, natural orgasm of men and women = male/female ejaculation, an orgasm its godam natural, it isnt a luxury function. One japanese porn actor (Taka Kato) has the ability to make every women ejaculate. The Daoists few the female and male ejaculation as the natural orgasm and modern daoists say that what women view as the orgasm is just what is a strong lubrication. Period
You misunderstand.
Their bodies give great feedback in terms of genital stimulation. But poor feedback in the mind. Meaning, a woman will be bodily/genitally turned on by watching bonobos have sex, yet feel no sexual arousal in her mind.
Even happens while watching humans, though. Women are less aroused mentally. That’s why guys watch so much porn and women don’t. Watching does much less to get women’s minds going. They need more, like a storyline. This may be culturally due to repression. In cultures where women aren’t repressed it’s much easier for them to get aroused in their minds. Consider Gauguin’s experience in Tahiti vs Victorian Europe.
For more on how sexual repression affects female sexual response, see these:
Men Have Higher Sex Drive. Why?
Sexual Desire & Sexism
Sex Objects Who Don’t Enjoy Sex
Sex Lessons from Mom and Dad
Sex and the Walk of Shame
Truth!
I’ve toyed with the idea of saying instead, “women can learn to see women as sexier than men,” emphasis on “can,” but I think something would be lost. Then the reader would just say, oh maybe every now and then a woman does that, but most women don’t … I don’t or whatever. And it may be that you don’t.
But I wonder if something is missed. If you Google “Sexy image” you will pretty much only see images of women – no men. And I doubt that any women would even notice that men are missing. Plus, our culture does not fetishize any part of the male body in the way that we do the female body:
selectively hiding and revealing body parts, creating tension hiding a body part because it’s “so sexy” and then telling people, “Don’t look at it!” creating tension culturally obsessing over the body part. (Cameras rarely focus on men’s butts or linger on their chests. Or anything else.)
Women and men both grow up in this culture and unconsciously internalize these images. As such, it’s no surprise that so many of my women students “Explain to me” that the reason we objectify women is because women’s bodies are just sexier.
Plus, it’s very common for women to get aroused by feeling like her partner is aroused by her body. So the phenomenon is in play once again. Did you see this post? https://broadblogs.com/2015/09/28/women-making-love-to-themselves/
I should mention acceptance of homosexuality also has had a big impact, of course…but there’s another phenomenon, related but different, ‘bisexual/lesbian chic’ which I’m sure you’re familiar with.
Also while I’m thinking of it, I think many who read the infamous study by Meredith Chivers came to the conclusion that women were not really aroused by men but women. Well men in themselves, at least, as opposed to men engaged in sexual activity. Many women have expressed that they can be very turned on by men on looks alone – so what do you make of this? Attraction is a subjective thing, I think, and who even knows who the volunteers in the study were? Do you think they represent all women?
Chivers said the women were turned on but
1) less so than when observing the female
2) women’s bodies don’t give very good feedback, compared to the male body. So they can be sexually stimulated without realizing it.
re “women have expressed that they can be very turned on by men on looks alone – so what do you make of this?”
That’s been my experience. We aren’t trained to, and our bodies don’t give great feedback. But also, take a look at these posts:
Women Want Emotionally Connected Sex. Why?
Men Watch Porn, Women Read Romance. Why?
you dont seem to be acknowledging the facts of the actual survey!! she didnt say women were ”more” turned on by images of women, just that the arousal was there. And the fact they they were also aroused by the bonobos almost completely contradicts your whole point, the conclusion she drew was it was arousal by association… ive heard aloot of girls talking, most girls i know are completely grossed out by lesbian experiences!!
She didn’t word it as “women are more turned on by images of women.” She said that blood flow to the vagina was stronger when viewing a naked woman. But that’s the same as arousal.
yeaqh thats what i meant, none of articles i read revealed higher quality blood flow during any of the images, it was very vague and just said that their was blood flow there wigth men women and bonobos, link to the survey/article you read please? as other people have said, it would be very interesting to see the people used as the “porn” or whatever was showed to them, you can bet they were not average females but close to average males- i think thats what mostof your discussion is about. I agree that the portrayal and women that the spotlight is cast on is sexier than men in the same position but these women are sooo far beyond what the average women can look like!!! i read somewhere in there to that men the average male finds the average female sexy but the males need to have something extra to be sexy. I found this very odd since its females that are typically associated with altering their looks in so many different forms, makeup, plastic surgery, fake tan, skin products, enhancements, airbrush in magazines, while males generally do very little- almost the opposite of your point. Even fitness wise, thesegirls do more than you think to look that way, even if they arent muscular they spend alot of time in the gym toning up
Here’s the link: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/25/magazine/25desire-t.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=bonobos%20sex%20study%20blood%20flow&st=cse
I’ve heard repeatedly that that was the reason that Playgirl failed. Women just weren’t visually turned on. Actually, this surprised me…I’d always assumed that women definitely were turned on by the naked male form, I mean it would seem natural, right? Many women are, of course, but almost as many seem to be not. Then I started hearing about how they thought WOMEN were actually sexier to LOOK at and that made me scratch my head. If women were supposedly less visual, why would a straight woman be more turned on by women? Was the ‘non-visual’ excuse merely a way to hide their innate lesbian preference? Why has female bisexuality been seemingly more prevalent now than ever COMPARED to male bisexuality? Circa 1990 I think the Kinsey institute found that more men not women identified as bisexual. Now it seems many more women identify as bisexual. What has happened since then has been interesting: firstly an explosion of porn and the universal access to pornography. Prior to the internet you had to rent or buy adult video films – and it seemed mostly a male domain. Circa 2012 everyone – from 14 year old girls to 55 year old men can access porn. What’s more, you couldn’t help but notice the huge lesbian fetish that began in the late 90s/early 00s. The Britney/Madonna kiss was just the tip of it. From Girls Gone Wild, the phenomena seems to keep growing. I found in funny that in several major clip sites,a good third of porn under the ‘straight’ category (as opposed to the ‘gay’ category) involved lesbian porn. At least half involved some lesbian activity (threesomes etc). This may sound weird, but if any of you have seen the comedy ‘Year One’ with Jack Black and remember the scene in Sodom and Gomorrah, it’s interesting that only softcore lesbianism was portrayed (women kissing and touching) while in the original Biblical story only male homosexuality was mentioned. Sort of telling, isn’t it?
Anyway, the ‘normalization’ of lesbianism, for want of a better term (not that I’m saying lesbians are freaks or anything), has many seemingly disparate drivers. Feminism, male fetishism and ‘raunch culture.’ I won’t go into that here, but the consequence of this is, this will be the next stage in the ‘conditioning’ of the female brain. People have told me I’m stupid for this, but I have said that more and more women might be turning bisexual/lesbian in the future. We’re already seeing it now. Droves of women claiming to be bisexual. Some are probably mostly ‘faking’ it, but what if the conditioning is so strong it is actually changing women’s orientations? Is it really too far fetched an idea? The ‘born gay’ crowd say it is mostly an innate thing: maybe it partly is, but if the flame of homosexual possibility is innate to all humans, it’s being stoked in women and dampened in men.
So it’s really not too surprising to see all these heterosexual women have ‘bisexual arousal patterns’. But what’s more peculiar, to me, is the comparative lack of interest in males among some of them. Negative portrayals are largely responsible for this. Which leads to me to what you’re talking about in your last paragraph.
Some women say they really do like penises – mostly erect ones, though, and I don’t doubt they do. As for the ones that don’t? Well two things here. I’ll relate my own personal experience. Unless I’m already really into it, the mere sight of a vagina does not turn me on. In fact, to be perfectly honest, it can look ugly at times. There’s almost a gross out factor to it. The penis, actually does nothing for me. I’ve been to nude beaches, and seeing other men’s penis was actually no big deal. Not grossed out or turned on by it, I don’t think it’s especially beautiful, just functional.
Maybe this is simply what these women are experiencing in reverse. The penis is weird and unfamiliar to them, just as the idea of having an ‘innie’ instead of an ‘outie’ would be to most men. It’s the fear of the unknown and like you say, the suggestion of rape. The second is, the complex relationship humanity has with the male organ. Why is ‘dickhead’ or ‘dick’ an insult? Have you ever wondered about that? There’s something we view as rude and vulgar about the male organ, especially erect. It’s portrayed as dirty and ugly, and many women are just rehashing this opinion in their minds.
I can’t speak for gay men but that might be it. I think it’s the same with lesbians. Of the seemingly straight women who say the female form is prettier or more beautiful, most also say they are either indifferent or grossed out by the vagina. I assume lesbians are genuinely turned on by someone else’s vagina. Maybe that’s really what makes a woman bisexual/gay: having a significant proactive interest in the same sex, as well as being turned on by the V.
Backtracking a bit…there is much to be said for the allure of what is not seen. Nowadays, everything is out there. I read an interesting article that men are getting densensitized to sexual stimuli because they’re exposed to so much of it. It’s no surprise. When I was a teen, and first viewed porn, the merely sight of a naked woman could drive me crazy. Now, not so much. I actually wished I hadn’t watched so much porn (I don’t compared to most men, honest lol) and definitely believe too much porn is not healthy.
But it will be interesting to see how this pans out. I actually see male bisexuality making a return among the generation below me. Like many teenage boys identifying as ‘bisexual’. I wonder if they’re taking a cue from the ladies? haha
“The penis is weird and unfamiliar to them, just as the idea of having an ‘innie’ instead of an ‘outie’ would be to most men. It’s the fear of the unknown and like you say,”
That makes a lot of sense to me, too. Based on my own experience. The way you say the vagina isn’t a turn-on to you (and likely a lot of men), same with the penis for me and a lot of women.
I generally don’t take much stock in the study done by Chivers (I mean comparing responses to a woman doing exercises to a man strolling along the beach? Does she even know what science is?). There are a million factors involved. Like how the man in the video looked, how the woman looked etc. Not that I’m saying the study is totally useless – while not a woman I agree that a lot of female arousal isn’t about just seeing something and being turned on, but somehow relating it to yourself. So seeing a naked woman, women are able to relate to her more. But I agree that they’ve been conditioned to not think of sex when viewing the male form – and I agree with you a lot of that probably is socially conditioned. I’ve always wondered, how often are men even portrayed in a truly erotic way? Even gay male porn seems largely concerned with sex as a physical act – while lesbian porn includes more tender sensuality. I also think a lot of men are not really in touch with their own sexuality or sense of their own sexiness – straight men, at least – and why would women respond to someone who presents himself as totally unsexy?
At the same time I was always puzzled by how I was heterosexual, had always had crushes on, and fantasies about, men and yet found the female form more erotic. In discussing the matter with students, they had had the same strange experience. Cultural conditioning explains the oddity.
Indeed, on one hand it seems strange, but on the other not. I may get bashed for this but I think female orientation really is sort of a mirror image of the male: it’s largely about being desired, which would make sense from a biological perspective. I’ve been reading a bit about it on the net – and I think I have a better understanding of why heterosexual women like yourself can find women more erotic without being lesbians or being attracted to them. It’s because female attraction is mostly ‘reactive’ – women mostly react to stimuli, while men are programmed to be more ‘pro-active.’ Both forms are ATTRACTION, but just in different ways. So in a sense yes, maybe it’s not so far out to say you find the female form ‘sexier’ and still actually be straight. It’s because for men we don’t self-eroticize so much. But I still think a lot of it is social conditioning: the rise in female bisexuality is proof that bisexuality in both genders is largely conditioned. I do not believe that the female body is objectively more beautiful: this is a very male-centric view. Unlike most males, it seems, I can separate my aesthetic sense from what turns me on. I can appreciate a sculpted male body as a ‘work of art.’ Yes, I don’t find a lot of men that aesthetically appealing (interestingly, I think men have been programmed to find body hair especially disgusting) but then I don’t find many women all that good to look at, but ironically I can still get turned on by them.
Anyway, what I think the researchers miss is that males, being sexual creatures as well, do indeed also want to be seen as ‘sex objects’ to a DEGREE. I think most men still want to be the instigators, but speaking of myself, I also want to be lusted after for want of a better word, both for what I can do AND my body. I want to make my lover feel great but I also want her to want to ‘make love to me.’ Hetero porn seems to definitely emphasis the simple physical act of screwing (I use this crude slang term because I think it describes the lack of feeling suggested) with caricatured responses from the female. Maybe that’s the attraction to lesbian porn, and maybe that’s why I admit I had a fixation on lesbian porn. I think I just enjoy erotica rather than hardcore porn more than most guys, and I want to be portrayed erotically at times: there’s no space in the hetero-normative worldview for men to truly be portrayed as objects of erotic attraction. I think it diminishes the richness of the sexual union between male and female. There’s no space in the heteronormative worldview for males to be seen as sexy without suggestions of being gay. Since I’m pretty much straight I’m not going to turn to a guy to lust after me or give it to me, but it seems that I would definitely rather NOT have a girlfriend or spouse who was uninterested in my body, even if she said I had a great personality, if she found my body boring I would feel something was missing. I’m sure she would feel the same.
The funny thing is I don’t think males, at least some males, are immune. While generally not aroused by men myself, I found when they are portrayed EROTICALLY, which is seldom outside the homosexuality community, I was aroused. Often in the past, and still now, I suppress this though. Like one time late at night when I caught an episode of Queer as Folk and there was a gay sex scene I found myself getting turned on and immediately felt guilty about it. Maybe I’m bi-curious, but I don’t have any real need for sex with a man and less of a relationship with a man. I don’t know how many men would admit to something like this but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s common.
Sorry I didn’t intend for this response to be this long (I always seem to ramble on and on) but I just thought this was an appropriate forum to express my thoughts. I’ve been quite interested in this whole topic – I think it started when I started hearing straight women claim they thought women were sexier, which puzzled me…indeed it started me thinking that maybe most women were either innately asexual, bisexual or lesbian. But understanding the fact that women’s ‘drive’ isn’t the same as men’s makes the picture clearer. And of course as I’ve always thought, that what you are exposed do definitely has a big effect.
re: men don’t self-eroticize so much. But I still think a lot of it is social conditioning.
I think it’s conditioning, too. If the male body were constantly shown off, and if women were taught to “consume” it the way men are taught to consume the female form (and the way women inadvertently get taught that the female form is erotic), then I suspect women would be just as turned on by men.
Mere hiding and revealing have a lot to do with it too. Men in Muslim societies, where women are totally covered, can come to see women’s legs as very sexually-charged, for instance.
Now, why most women don’t get turned on by the sight of a penis is unclear. Maybe you need some basic esthetic? Yet gay men get turned on. Maybe gay men have such a strong association of penis and ejaculation that it takes on a sexual draw, whereas women orgasm more from clitoral stimulation. And maybe women are taught to fear the penis (if not attached to a man she loves/desires)? Maybe it can take on a threatening form, perhaps living in a society where rape is a constant threat. I’m not sure about that, just throwing it out there.
I’m a straight guy and actually think an “Ideal” man is way sexier than ideal female. No offense ladies. Being chisled (like myself lol), with sexy looks like superman (i.e. Tom Welling, Sagi Kalev) is much more rare, like seeing a Ferrari on the road. Pretty females are like honda accords, they’re everywhere, lol! And they have to wear makeup and spend so much time on their looks… just too look good, men don’t! I’ve seen celebrities without their makeup and im like…ew! But thats just media influence too unfortuneately. I’m still attracted to females but only because of certain reasons, not because I think they are sexier.
The broad culture works to present the male view of women (because men have been in charge of media more than women have). Not everyone will be influenced in the same way. But while in surveys women say they find men sexier, when they are wired up, their vaginas say something else. I’m sure this is cultural and not biological.
see these related posts:
Men Aren’t Hard Wired To Find Breasts Attractive
Women Learn the Breast Fetish, Too
Omg are you me or what? I wrote an essay that sounds eerily similar, and I’ve been trying to make the same point to people. I found it strange when I started to here straight women start to say things like this. I agree, women ‘seeing men through men’s eyes’ is definitely contributing to this rise in female bisexuality and lesbianism. Women are portrayed as sex objects, this affects both genders. In ancient Greece one saw more statutes of nude men and believe it or not men were considered objectively sexier by both men and women. Women were for reproduction but men, who had wives and children, took on lovers because the male physique was seen as superior. Is this what is going to happen to our society, in reverse? Are people so blind as to see we are CONDITIONED, whether in ancient Greece of 21st century America?
I agree with you totally. See my blog for the rise in female homosexuality, http://newsexuality.wordpress.com
First of all I would like to say I am straight but I feel that the woman body is more appealing than a males so I would prefer a playgirl pin-up vs a playboy. The same goes for strip clubs, I would much rather go to a females strip club than a males. There are certain guidelines to finding a male “sexy” for example he can’t be too buff or he’ll look like he’s on steroids so when you’re refering to his legs are they shaved? tanned? toned? etc. It is okay for females to find other girls attractive without making them gay however males can’t judge other males based on looks or that makes them less masculine for even considering answering the question.
You may not realize it, but you’re making my point. Of course the male body can be appreciated. But it isn’t so much in this culture. Neither are women’s bodies when they don’t match our ridiculous cultural ideal.
I agree that in general, women are seen sexier than men. And it is acceptable for a woman to say that she finds another woman sexy. But for men it is different. Lots of my straight boyfriends would answer “I don’t know if he is sexy, I am a guy.” They are more used to seeing, and judging women’s sexiness, and they have been told that women have to be sexy. Those are stereotypes that took place, I agree, because of the media.
I think this is a very interesting topic. From a female perspective, I believe and agree that it is more accepted to see our own sex as sexy and attractive. We have been bombarded with the stereotypical view of beauty since we were born. It’s not strange that we have become so adapted to it that we sometimes don’t even notice it and think that women are more attractive than men. Men are definetely not as objectified and ’‘put out there’’ like women are.
I really appreciate this post because it discusses something I’ve been trying to explain to my friends recently. I’ve attended an all women’s college for four years now, and it is no surprise that several students identify as lesbian/queer or eventually come to identify that way even if they originally considered themselves straight. Within my closest group of friends, we all have considered ourselves straight and still were with our boyfriends from high school when we entered as freshman. Recently, I have shared with my friends that overall I find women more attractive to men because I think there is more to appreciate about a woman’s features than a man’s features. My friends immediately started cracking jokes about how my time at our college has made me “swing the other way”. I do not consider myself lesbian or bi and certainly am attracted to men, but it isn’t as easy for a male to catch my attention. It’s hard to explain to them that it isn’t a sexual attraction to women, but more of an appreciation…maybe? It’s nice to see that I’m not alone with this idea, but now I’m starting to question WHY I’ve come to appreciate more about a woman than a man. I’d like to think that as a woman, (especially one so against plastic surgery and the unhealthy habits that the media has encouraged so that we can look like the ideal, sexy woman that every man desires) I am not also buying into the fabricated ideal as well, but I always catch myself looking at ads wishing that my legs could look that way or that my nose was smaller like that girl. It’s hard to keep outside influence away from how I feel about myself.
I also agree with Deanna C. about how having an emotional connection with a male can greatly contribute to sexual attraction. I also feel that a person’s personality has a huge effect on physical attraction. Even the most handsome guy becomes ugly in my eyes if he turns out to be a jerk. If only personality and emotional connection were emphasized more. But at the same time, even if one is looking to meet someone based on personality and non-physical connection, the reason one first decides to approach someone new has to come from somewhere, and that doesn’t leave much else but appearance.
You might want to take a look at a couple more posts.
1) Women in surveys (and likely your friends) say they find nude men more attractive than nude women. But when they’re wired up, women’s bodies respond more to women, whether they’re lesbian or straight. I suspect the straight response has to do w/socialization. Constantly taught that women are the sexy ones. Women’s body parts selectively hidden and revealed, making them so intriguing. Women wear more decoration, too. See post: “Women Learn the Breast Fetish, Too” https://broadblogs.com/2010/11/29/women-learn-the-breast-fetish-too/
2) Quote from a different post on the importance of the man’s personality from “Men Watch Porn, Women Read Romance. Why?” https://broadblogs.com/2011/05/16/men-watch-porn-women-read-romance-why/ “the female cortex is highly developed and skillfully scrutinizes all available evidence – social, emotional and physical, somewhat consciously but largely not. All this leads to a general feeling of favorability or suspicion: Is he committed and kind? Is he a rouge? A player? Only if the detective work leads to a stamp of approval will physical and psychological arousal unite.”
I don’t know if this will resonate with you, but I’ve come to realize that I’m more aroused when I look at women because I want to BE them. I want to embody that sexiness. I’ve internalized the male gaze so much that I’m almost auto-sexual; I see my body through the lens of the male gaze, and only feel sexually fulfilled if I imagine myself to look like a “sexier” woman. So when I feel aroused by the image of another woman, it’s not an arousal that leads to a desire to touch or be physically intimate with that woman. The arousal leads nowhere (except feelings of inadequacy).
This blog caught my attention because I too had a class where it was in agreement that women are sexier than men. I wonder why it is that the majority of people agree with this. My friends and I were actually discussing this recently as well and I think its because women tend to have an emotional connection to the men they engage in sexual relationships with so it is not just any male that they find attractive sexually, but it’s a person they have an emotional connection with. So overall I guess females in general are just more attractive because they are portrayed that way or they are portrayed that way because they are. This is a very interesting topic.
I just stumbled upon your blog and just had to say I find it very informative and thought provoking. This is just what I was looking for. It can be hard sometimes to have frank, deep discussions with my friends about women’s issues and sexuality. So thank you for making a forum for these issues and more!
You’re very welcome! I’m glad you enjoy it. Chime in anytime!
So, the main problem (if that is what it is) is the consumer-driven media portraying solely attractive attributes of the female to perpetuate an “image” to sell. All of this is extremely interesting, and TRUE. If we want to move on and correct this shallow-minded appraisal of a quickly passing trait of life, then our ideals need to change to something more constructive and real! Life-long ideals such as working and living together, or simply thinking of each other, not just how we look. But the media will not bend for the minority, but yet I for one am ready to see that compromise and let all of us finally come back to terms with each other and release the pressure and stigmas of simply encountering other people!
Throughout our society woman are depicted as sexual objects, especially in the media. All television programs have very attractive woman who with nice bodies and the least amount of clothing possible. Music degrades woman in various ways through their lyrics and video vixons. But I do agree with saying that more and more woman are beginning to become more attracted to woman and are seeing woman through men’s eyes because of our society. If we always are viewing womans bodies in certain ways we are going to become adjusted to viewing them this way and instead of looking at a personality we are looking at a hot pair of legs or boobs because that is what we are shown. Woman have always judged other woman and I constantly hear woman criticize other womans bodies for this or that but now with the Media putting it almost everything, woman will constantitly be depicted as sex objects and that is how others will see woman because of these influences.
Stephanie makes a good point here. I have noticed that in many sitcoms such as King of Queens or According to Jim the women are slim and attractive while the men are slightly overweight and unattractive. It’s an interesting concept to think about. Things like Victoria’s Secret or the EasyTone ads that are on television everyday are filmed in a way that is supposed to sell their products. The product is modeled by a woman who flaunts America’s ideal of a perfect body and a big focus is how “sexy” she can make the product look. The ads then gain their desired affect because now more women want to try these miracle shoes that give you a “better butt with every step.” In other words she now wants to look like the woman in the ad. I cannot say I am innocent of this, though, I like to think of myself as a fairly deep person I still find myself thinking “if only I looked like her” on occasion during these kinds of ads. Up until reading this article I thought that was their sole purpose but now that I think about it, its true the types of ads (along with many other aspects of the media) do condition us to think of women as the “sexier” half of the human race. I do think however, that media, more now than before, is depicting men as “sexy.” While yes, its true that in many things such as dance competitions etc. the woman will be much more scantily clad than the man, some things have begun to focus their attention to the sexiness of men. Some examples are ads that depict men in nothing but shorts with rock hard abs, or in some recent movies such as Twilight (forgive the reference) the actor who plays Jacob is actually on contract be shirtless for at least a minimum amount of time throughout the movie. I do agree with this post to the extent that from the media we are conditioned to see women as sexier than men (which may partly account for why women are much more open to admitting that we find another female attractive than men are to other men), but I also think that the media is beginning to depict men as such as well.
I agree that men are being portrayed as sexier than they once were. But the sexy portrayal of men is nowhere close to how women are portrayed, yet.
I agree completely. Women are definitely depicted as sex objects or as ‘sexy’ much more than men in media, and I can see how this has led women to see other women “through mens eyes.” I was just pointing out that men are beginning to be portrayed as sexy in the media as well.
Thanks for your comment 🙂
“Stephanie makes a good point here. I have noticed that in many sitcoms such as King of Queens or According to Jim the women are slim and attractive while the men are slightly overweight and unattractive.”
I have to be honest, reading this kind of made me cringe. I understand the valid point you’re making, but I think the phrasing contributes to the problem. Acting as if some people simply “are” attractive and some simply “aren’t,” as if there is some objective standard you have you adhere to in order to be attractive, is degrading to everyone. It leaves no room for subjectivity; no room for a person who is considered unattractive by society’s standards to be beautiful in the eyes of a caring person. It’s the sort of language that has conditioned me over the years to disbelieve that anyone could find me attractive.
I do see the point you were making, though. Men who are considered unattractive by society’s standards are congratulated when they manage to date a conventionally attractive woman, and it’s not unheard of. But you almost never see a conventionally attractive man with a woman who fails to live up to society’s beauty standards. And when this does happen, the couple is mocked.
I definently see this in the media and in real life. In tv shows, movies, and even cartoons, like family guy and the simpsons the men are allowed to be overwieght and lazy and the wives have to be thin with big breasts just to liked by this fat and lazy guy. I see that women have to look a certain way to get a boyfriend when men can be overweight and hairy and easily find a girlfreind. The media has been showing us women since we first started watching tv what we are supposed to look like and what is considered sexy and we hardly ever see men portrayed that way. Since we see women portrayed this way everywhere all the time we think every women is supposed to be like that in this society and since we hardly see men like that we think this men is rare and just a fantasy so they dont have to look like that. I see girls that know they are attractive and letting guys use them and sleep around for attention because that is what the hot women in the media do and if you cannot get used as a sex object you automatically think you are not attractive and have low self esteem issues.
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