Girls are so inundated with sexualized images of women that they learn to see women as sexier than men. Women come to see women through male eyes?
In the bedroom, this can make women’s sexuality a bit convoluted, which I’ll discuss later.
But consider my students:
“Women’s bodies are just naturally sexier than men’s,” my class tells me when I ask why women are portrayed as sex objects.
In this belief, my students are not alone.
A few years back Lisa Kudrow, of Friends fame, told Jay Leno that female nudity is displayed more in movies because, “Who wants to look at a guy?”
Hugh Hefner thinks women are natural sex objects, “If women weren’t sex objects, there wouldn’t be another generation.”
I’ve talked before about how the breast fetish is not natural, but is learned by both men and women. But how do we all learn that women are sexier than men in ways that go beyond the fetish?
Growing up, girls are bombarded with visions of women as sexy, with skin selectively hidden and revealed, the camera focused on those intriguingly concealed parts.
When I was little my mom took me to the Ice Capades. After noticing that the women were half dressed while the men were fully clothed, I asked why. Mom told me that women just have better legs.
Do they? One warm summer day an adult from my church youth group commented, “It’s too bad the guys have the best legs.” (Thanks!) But what is our cultural ideal? Longer, leaner. Young men typically have longer legs, and they don’t have the extra layer of fat that women do. So most young men’s legs come closer to our ideal. Yet we say women have better legs? When I think about it, I actually think men have pretty nice looking legs. But nothing and no one directs our attention to them.
On Dancing With The Stars, women are half-dressed and men are fully-clothed. During an advertisement, the camera lingers on women’s breasts and legs in a Victoria’s Secret display. Next, a commercial for shoes focuses on women’s behinds: See this Rebook ad for EasyTone. Try to imagine the same focus on men’s butts (which actually are pretty attractive)!
Watch a football game and see big, fully-dressed, aggressive guys playing on the field, while scantily clad cheerleaders show off their stuff from the sidelines. In the Bikini Open men sport golf wear while women dawn bikinis. When does Sports Illustrated most focus on women? In the swimsuit edition.
Through it all, the camera gazes at women’s body parts, but not men’s. Telling us what’s important to notice. What’s sexy and what’s not.
Men’s bodies are rarely sexualized outside infrequent underwear ads.
Historically, men have had control of media, and they’ve portrayed what they see as sexy.
Bombarded with these images, girls come to see women as sexier than men. As I’ve said before, when I tell my class that I find a Playboy pinup sexier than a Playgirl pinup, women’s heads nod in agreement.
Meanwhile, when women answer surveys about what they find sexy they say “men.” But when they are wired up, blood flow to the vagina is stronger when viewing an image of a nude woman than a nude man – conscious responses and bodily responses not agreeing.
Oddly, and yet logically, women come to see women through male eyes.
So women come to see themselves as the sexy half of the species. Being sexy has some advantages. It can just be fun, it’s easier to attract mates (consider the success of women versus men in singles bars), and sexiness is a source of power.
But there’s a downside, too, including the narrow construct that leaves so many women feeling they exist outside the “sexy” box, with a drop in self esteem kicking in.
Taken to extreme, some women can become sex objects, taking an unhealthy one-dimensional focus on themselves, feeling that how they look is all that matters. And some men may see them as objects whose sole purpose is to be used for their pleasure.
It ain’t so great to be, or be seen, as mere object.
Related Posts on BroadBlogs
Sex Objects Who Don’t Enjoy Sex
Men Have Higher Sex Drive. Why?
Women Learn the Breast Fetish, Too
Popular Posts on BroadBlogs
Men Finding Fewer Women “Porn-Worthy”
Orgasm: It’s All in the Mind
“Cock” vs “Down There”
I definently see this in the media and in real life. In tv shows, movies, and even cartoons, like family guy and the simpsons the men are allowed to be overwieght and lazy and the wives have to be thin with big breasts just to liked by this fat and lazy guy. I see that women have to look a certain way to get a boyfriend when men can be overweight and hairy and easily find a girlfreind. The media has been showing us women since we first started watching tv what we are supposed to look like and what is considered sexy and we hardly ever see men portrayed that way. Since we see women portrayed this way everywhere all the time we think every women is supposed to be like that in this society and since we hardly see men like that we think this men is rare and just a fantasy so they dont have to look like that. I see girls that know they are attractive and letting guys use them and sleep around for attention because that is what the hot women in the media do and if you cannot get used as a sex object you automatically think you are not attractive and have low self esteem issues.
Stephanie makes a good point here. I have noticed that in many sitcoms such as King of Queens or According to Jim the women are slim and attractive while the men are slightly overweight and unattractive. It’s an interesting concept to think about. Things like Victoria’s Secret or the EasyTone ads that are on television everyday are filmed in a way that is supposed to sell their products. The product is modeled by a woman who flaunts America’s ideal of a perfect body and a big focus is how “sexy” she can make the product look. The ads then gain their desired affect because now more women want to try these miracle shoes that give you a “better butt with every step.” In other words she now wants to look like the woman in the ad. I cannot say I am innocent of this, though, I like to think of myself as a fairly deep person I still find myself thinking “if only I looked like her” on occasion during these kinds of ads. Up until reading this article I thought that was their sole purpose but now that I think about it, its true the types of ads (along with many other aspects of the media) do condition us to think of women as the “sexier” half of the human race. I do think however, that media, more now than before, is depicting men as “sexy.” While yes, its true that in many things such as dance competitions etc. the woman will be much more scantily clad than the man, some things have begun to focus their attention to the sexiness of men. Some examples are ads that depict men in nothing but shorts with rock hard abs, or in some recent movies such as Twilight (forgive the reference) the actor who plays Jacob is actually on contract be shirtless for at least a minimum amount of time throughout the movie. I do agree with this post to the extent that from the media we are conditioned to see women as sexier than men (which may partly account for why women are much more open to admitting that we find another female attractive than men are to other men), but I also think that the media is beginning to depict men as such as well.
I agree that men are being portrayed as sexier than they once were. But the sexy portrayal of men is nowhere close to how women are portrayed, yet.
I agree completely. Women are definitely depicted as sex objects or as ‘sexy’ much more than men in media, and I can see how this has led women to see other women “through mens eyes.” I was just pointing out that men are beginning to be portrayed as sexy in the media as well.
Thanks for your comment
Throughout our society woman are depicted as sexual objects, especially in the media. All television programs have very attractive woman who with nice bodies and the least amount of clothing possible. Music degrades woman in various ways through their lyrics and video vixons. But I do agree with saying that more and more woman are beginning to become more attracted to woman and are seeing woman through men’s eyes because of our society. If we always are viewing womans bodies in certain ways we are going to become adjusted to viewing them this way and instead of looking at a personality we are looking at a hot pair of legs or boobs because that is what we are shown. Woman have always judged other woman and I constantly hear woman criticize other womans bodies for this or that but now with the Media putting it almost everything, woman will constantitly be depicted as sex objects and that is how others will see woman because of these influences.
I just stumbled upon your blog and just had to say I find it very informative and thought provoking. This is just what I was looking for. It can be hard sometimes to have frank, deep discussions with my friends about women’s issues and sexuality. So thank you for making a forum for these issues and more!
You’re very welcome! I’m glad you enjoy it. Chime in anytime!
So, the main problem (if that is what it is) is the consumer-driven media portraying solely attractive attributes of the female to perpetuate an “image” to sell. All of this is extremely interesting, and TRUE. If we want to move on and correct this shallow-minded appraisal of a quickly passing trait of life, then our ideals need to change to something more constructive and real! Life-long ideals such as working and living together, or simply thinking of each other, not just how we look. But the media will not bend for the minority, but yet I for one am ready to see that compromise and let all of us finally come back to terms with each other and release the pressure and stigmas of simply encountering other people!
This blog caught my attention because I too had a class where it was in agreement that women are sexier than men. I wonder why it is that the majority of people agree with this. My friends and I were actually discussing this recently as well and I think its because women tend to have an emotional connection to the men they engage in sexual relationships with so it is not just any male that they find attractive sexually, but it’s a person they have an emotional connection with. So overall I guess females in general are just more attractive because they are portrayed that way or they are portrayed that way because they are. This is a very interesting topic.
I really appreciate this post because it discusses something I’ve been trying to explain to my friends recently. I’ve attended an all women’s college for four years now, and it is no surprise that several students identify as lesbian/queer or eventually come to identify that way even if they originally considered themselves straight. Within my closest group of friends, we all have considered ourselves straight and still were with our boyfriends from high school when we entered as freshman. Recently, I have shared with my friends that overall I find women more attractive to men because I think there is more to appreciate about a woman’s features than a man’s features. My friends immediately started cracking jokes about how my time at our college has made me “swing the other way”. I do not consider myself lesbian or bi and certainly am attracted to men, but it isn’t as easy for a male to catch my attention. It’s hard to explain to them that it isn’t a sexual attraction to women, but more of an appreciation…maybe? It’s nice to see that I’m not alone with this idea, but now I’m starting to question WHY I’ve come to appreciate more about a woman than a man. I’d like to think that as a woman, (especially one so against plastic surgery and the unhealthy habits that the media has encouraged so that we can look like the ideal, sexy woman that every man desires) I am not also buying into the fabricated ideal as well, but I always catch myself looking at ads wishing that my legs could look that way or that my nose was smaller like that girl. It’s hard to keep outside influence away from how I feel about myself.
I also agree with Deanna C. about how having an emotional connection with a male can greatly contribute to sexual attraction. I also feel that a person’s personality has a huge effect on physical attraction. Even the most handsome guy becomes ugly in my eyes if he turns out to be a jerk. If only personality and emotional connection were emphasized more. But at the same time, even if one is looking to meet someone based on personality and non-physical connection, the reason one first decides to approach someone new has to come from somewhere, and that doesn’t leave much else but appearance.
You might want to take a look at a couple more posts.
1) Women in surveys (and likely your friends) say they find nude men more attractive than nude women. But when they’re wired up, women’s bodies respond more to women, whether they’re lesbian or straight. I suspect the straight response has to do w/socialization. Constantly taught that women are the sexy ones. Women’s body parts selectively hidden and revealed, making them so intriguing. Women wear more decoration, too. See post: “Women Learn the Breast Fetish, Too” http://broadblogs.com/2010/11/29/women-learn-the-breast-fetish-too/
2) Quote from a different post on the importance of the man’s personality from “Men Watch Porn, Women Read Romance. Why?” http://broadblogs.com/2011/05/16/men-watch-porn-women-read-romance-why/ “the female cortex is highly developed and skillfully scrutinizes all available evidence – social, emotional and physical, somewhat consciously but largely not. All this leads to a general feeling of favorability or suspicion: Is he committed and kind? Is he a rouge? A player? Only if the detective work leads to a stamp of approval will physical and psychological arousal unite.”
I think this is a very interesting topic. From a female perspective, I believe and agree that it is more accepted to see our own sex as sexy and attractive. We have been bombarded with the stereotypical view of beauty since we were born. It’s not strange that we have become so adapted to it that we sometimes don’t even notice it and think that women are more attractive than men. Men are definetely not as objectified and ’‘put out there’’ like women are.
I agree that in general, women are seen sexier than men. And it is acceptable for a woman to say that she finds another woman sexy. But for men it is different. Lots of my straight boyfriends would answer “I don’t know if he is sexy, I am a guy.” They are more used to seeing, and judging women’s sexiness, and they have been told that women have to be sexy. Those are stereotypes that took place, I agree, because of the media.
First of all I would like to say I am straight but I feel that the woman body is more appealing than a males so I would prefer a playgirl pin-up vs a playboy. The same goes for strip clubs, I would much rather go to a females strip club than a males. There are certain guidelines to finding a male “sexy” for example he can’t be too buff or he’ll look like he’s on steroids so when you’re refering to his legs are they shaved? tanned? toned? etc. It is okay for females to find other girls attractive without making them gay however males can’t judge other males based on looks or that makes them less masculine for even considering answering the question.
You may not realize it, but you’re making my point. Of course the male body can be appreciated. But it isn’t so much in this culture. Neither are women’s bodies when they don’t match our ridiculous cultural ideal.
Pingback: Do You See What I See? « Female Gazing
Pingback: LFMAO – Sexy And I Know It « And Your Bird Can Sing
Omg are you me or what? I wrote an essay that sounds eerily similar, and I’ve been trying to make the same point to people. I found it strange when I started to here straight women start to say things like this. I agree, women ‘seeing men through men’s eyes’ is definitely contributing to this rise in female bisexuality and lesbianism. Women are portrayed as sex objects, this affects both genders. In ancient Greece one saw more statutes of nude men and believe it or not men were considered objectively sexier by both men and women. Women were for reproduction but men, who had wives and children, took on lovers because the male physique was seen as superior. Is this what is going to happen to our society, in reverse? Are people so blind as to see we are CONDITIONED, whether in ancient Greece of 21st century America?
I agree with you totally. See my blog for the rise in female homosexuality, http://newsexuality.wordpress.com
Pingback: Women seeing women as sexier than men - Dating, marriage, boyfriends, girlfriends, men, women, friends, attraction ... - City-Data Forum
I’m a straight guy and actually think an “Ideal” man is way sexier than ideal female. No offense ladies. Being chisled (like myself lol), with sexy looks like superman (i.e. Tom Welling, Sagi Kalev) is much more rare, like seeing a Ferrari on the road. Pretty females are like honda accords, they’re everywhere, lol! And they have to wear makeup and spend so much time on their looks… just too look good, men don’t! I’ve seen celebrities without their makeup and im like…ew! But thats just media influence too unfortuneately. I’m still attracted to females but only because of certain reasons, not because I think they are sexier.
The broad culture works to present the male view of women (because men have been in charge of media more than women have). Not everyone will be influenced in the same way. But while in surveys women say they find men sexier, when they are wired up, their vaginas say something else. I’m sure this is cultural and not biological.
see these related posts:
Men Aren’t Hard Wired To Find Breasts Attractive
http://broadblogs.com/2010/11/04/men-aren%e2%80%99t-hard-wired-to-find-breasts-attractive/
Women Learn the Breast Fetish, Too
http://broadblogs.com/2010/11/29/women-learn-the-breast-fetish-too/
I generally don’t take much stock in the study done by Chivers (I mean comparing responses to a woman doing exercises to a man strolling along the beach? Does she even know what science is?). There are a million factors involved. Like how the man in the video looked, how the woman looked etc. Not that I’m saying the study is totally useless – while not a woman I agree that a lot of female arousal isn’t about just seeing something and being turned on, but somehow relating it to yourself. So seeing a naked woman, women are able to relate to her more. But I agree that they’ve been conditioned to not think of sex when viewing the male form – and I agree with you a lot of that probably is socially conditioned. I’ve always wondered, how often are men even portrayed in a truly erotic way? Even gay male porn seems largely concerned with sex as a physical act – while lesbian porn includes more tender sensuality. I also think a lot of men are not really in touch with their own sexuality or sense of their own sexiness – straight men, at least – and why would women respond to someone who presents himself as totally unsexy?
At the same time I was always puzzled by how I was heterosexual, had always had crushes on, and fantasies about, men and yet found the female form more erotic. In discussing the matter with students, they had had the same strange experience. Cultural conditioning explains the oddity.
Indeed, on one hand it seems strange, but on the other not. I may get bashed for this but I think female orientation really is sort of a mirror image of the male: it’s largely about being desired, which would make sense from a biological perspective. I’ve been reading a bit about it on the net – and I think I have a better understanding of why heterosexual women like yourself can find women more erotic without being lesbians or being attracted to them. It’s because female attraction is mostly ‘reactive’ – women mostly react to stimuli, while men are programmed to be more ‘pro-active.’ Both forms are ATTRACTION, but just in different ways. So in a sense yes, maybe it’s not so far out to say you find the female form ‘sexier’ and still actually be straight. It’s because for men we don’t self-eroticize so much. But I still think a lot of it is social conditioning: the rise in female bisexuality is proof that bisexuality in both genders is largely conditioned. I do not believe that the female body is objectively more beautiful: this is a very male-centric view. Unlike most males, it seems, I can separate my aesthetic sense from what turns me on. I can appreciate a sculpted male body as a ‘work of art.’ Yes, I don’t find a lot of men that aesthetically appealing (interestingly, I think men have been programmed to find body hair especially disgusting) but then I don’t find many women all that good to look at, but ironically I can still get turned on by them.
Anyway, what I think the researchers miss is that males, being sexual creatures as well, do indeed also want to be seen as ‘sex objects’ to a DEGREE. I think most men still want to be the instigators, but speaking of myself, I also want to be lusted after for want of a better word, both for what I can do AND my body. I want to make my lover feel great but I also want her to want to ‘make love to me.’ Hetero porn seems to definitely emphasis the simple physical act of screwing (I use this crude slang term because I think it describes the lack of feeling suggested) with caricatured responses from the female. Maybe that’s the attraction to lesbian porn, and maybe that’s why I admit I had a fixation on lesbian porn. I think I just enjoy erotica rather than hardcore porn more than most guys, and I want to be portrayed erotically at times: there’s no space in the hetero-normative worldview for men to truly be portrayed as objects of erotic attraction. I think it diminishes the richness of the sexual union between male and female. There’s no space in the heteronormative worldview for males to be seen as sexy without suggestions of being gay. Since I’m pretty much straight I’m not going to turn to a guy to lust after me or give it to me, but it seems that I would definitely rather NOT have a girlfriend or spouse who was uninterested in my body, even if she said I had a great personality, if she found my body boring I would feel something was missing. I’m sure she would feel the same.
The funny thing is I don’t think males, at least some males, are immune. While generally not aroused by men myself, I found when they are portrayed EROTICALLY, which is seldom outside the homosexuality community, I was aroused. Often in the past, and still now, I suppress this though. Like one time late at night when I caught an episode of Queer as Folk and there was a gay sex scene I found myself getting turned on and immediately felt guilty about it. Maybe I’m bi-curious, but I don’t have any real need for sex with a man and less of a relationship with a man. I don’t know how many men would admit to something like this but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s common.
Sorry I didn’t intend for this response to be this long (I always seem to ramble on and on) but I just thought this was an appropriate forum to express my thoughts. I’ve been quite interested in this whole topic – I think it started when I started hearing straight women claim they thought women were sexier, which puzzled me…indeed it started me thinking that maybe most women were either innately asexual, bisexual or lesbian. But understanding the fact that women’s ‘drive’ isn’t the same as men’s makes the picture clearer. And of course as I’ve always thought, that what you are exposed do definitely has a big effect.
re: men don’t self-eroticize so much. But I still think a lot of it is social conditioning.
I think it’s conditioning, too. If the male body were constantly shown off, and if women were taught to “consume” it the way men are taught to consume the female form (and the way women inadvertently get taught that the female form is erotic), then I suspect women would be just as turned on by men.
Mere hiding and revealing have a lot to do with it too. Men in Muslim societies, where women are totally covered, can come to see women’s legs as very sexually-charged, for instance.
Now, why most women don’t get turned on by the sight of a penis is unclear. Maybe you need some basic esthetic? Yet gay men get turned on. Maybe gay men have such a strong association of penis and ejaculation that it takes on a sexual draw, whereas women orgasm more from clitoral stimulation. And maybe women are taught to fear the penis (if not attached to a man she loves/desires)? Maybe it can take on a threatening form, perhaps living in a society where rape is a constant threat. I’m not sure about that, just throwing it out there.
I’ve heard repeatedly that that was the reason that Playgirl failed. Women just weren’t visually turned on. Actually, this surprised me…I’d always assumed that women definitely were turned on by the naked male form, I mean it would seem natural, right? Many women are, of course, but almost as many seem to be not. Then I started hearing about how they thought WOMEN were actually sexier to LOOK at and that made me scratch my head. If women were supposedly less visual, why would a straight woman be more turned on by women? Was the ‘non-visual’ excuse merely a way to hide their innate lesbian preference? Why has female bisexuality been seemingly more prevalent now than ever COMPARED to male bisexuality? Circa 1990 I think the Kinsey institute found that more men not women identified as bisexual. Now it seems many more women identify as bisexual. What has happened since then has been interesting: firstly an explosion of porn and the universal access to pornography. Prior to the internet you had to rent or buy adult video films – and it seemed mostly a male domain. Circa 2012 everyone – from 14 year old girls to 55 year old men can access porn. What’s more, you couldn’t help but notice the huge lesbian fetish that began in the late 90s/early 00s. The Britney/Madonna kiss was just the tip of it. From Girls Gone Wild, the phenomena seems to keep growing. I found in funny that in several major clip sites,a good third of porn under the ‘straight’ category (as opposed to the ‘gay’ category) involved lesbian porn. At least half involved some lesbian activity (threesomes etc). This may sound weird, but if any of you have seen the comedy ‘Year One’ with Jack Black and remember the scene in Sodom and Gomorrah, it’s interesting that only softcore lesbianism was portrayed (women kissing and touching) while in the original Biblical story only male homosexuality was mentioned. Sort of telling, isn’t it?
Anyway, the ‘normalization’ of lesbianism, for want of a better term (not that I’m saying lesbians are freaks or anything), has many seemingly disparate drivers. Feminism, male fetishism and ‘raunch culture.’ I won’t go into that here, but the consequence of this is, this will be the next stage in the ‘conditioning’ of the female brain. People have told me I’m stupid for this, but I have said that more and more women might be turning bisexual/lesbian in the future. We’re already seeing it now. Droves of women claiming to be bisexual. Some are probably mostly ‘faking’ it, but what if the conditioning is so strong it is actually changing women’s orientations? Is it really too far fetched an idea? The ‘born gay’ crowd say it is mostly an innate thing: maybe it partly is, but if the flame of homosexual possibility is innate to all humans, it’s being stoked in women and dampened in men.
So it’s really not too surprising to see all these heterosexual women have ‘bisexual arousal patterns’. But what’s more peculiar, to me, is the comparative lack of interest in males among some of them. Negative portrayals are largely responsible for this. Which leads to me to what you’re talking about in your last paragraph.
Some women say they really do like penises – mostly erect ones, though, and I don’t doubt they do. As for the ones that don’t? Well two things here. I’ll relate my own personal experience. Unless I’m already really into it, the mere sight of a vagina does not turn me on. In fact, to be perfectly honest, it can look ugly at times. There’s almost a gross out factor to it. The penis, actually does nothing for me. I’ve been to nude beaches, and seeing other men’s penis was actually no big deal. Not grossed out or turned on by it, I don’t think it’s especially beautiful, just functional.
Maybe this is simply what these women are experiencing in reverse. The penis is weird and unfamiliar to them, just as the idea of having an ‘innie’ instead of an ‘outie’ would be to most men. It’s the fear of the unknown and like you say, the suggestion of rape. The second is, the complex relationship humanity has with the male organ. Why is ‘dickhead’ or ‘dick’ an insult? Have you ever wondered about that? There’s something we view as rude and vulgar about the male organ, especially erect. It’s portrayed as dirty and ugly, and many women are just rehashing this opinion in their minds.
I can’t speak for gay men but that might be it. I think it’s the same with lesbians. Of the seemingly straight women who say the female form is prettier or more beautiful, most also say they are either indifferent or grossed out by the vagina. I assume lesbians are genuinely turned on by someone else’s vagina. Maybe that’s really what makes a woman bisexual/gay: having a significant proactive interest in the same sex, as well as being turned on by the V.
Backtracking a bit…there is much to be said for the allure of what is not seen. Nowadays, everything is out there. I read an interesting article that men are getting densensitized to sexual stimuli because they’re exposed to so much of it. It’s no surprise. When I was a teen, and first viewed porn, the merely sight of a naked woman could drive me crazy. Now, not so much. I actually wished I hadn’t watched so much porn (I don’t compared to most men, honest lol) and definitely believe too much porn is not healthy.
But it will be interesting to see how this pans out. I actually see male bisexuality making a return among the generation below me. Like many teenage boys identifying as ‘bisexual’. I wonder if they’re taking a cue from the ladies? haha
“The penis is weird and unfamiliar to them, just as the idea of having an ‘innie’ instead of an ‘outie’ would be to most men. It’s the fear of the unknown and like you say,”
That makes a lot of sense to me, too. Based on my own experience. The way you say the vagina isn’t a turn-on to you (and likely a lot of men), same with the penis for me and a lot of women.
I should mention acceptance of homosexuality also has had a big impact, of course…but there’s another phenomenon, related but different, ‘bisexual/lesbian chic’ which I’m sure you’re familiar with.
Also while I’m thinking of it, I think many who read the infamous study by Meredith Chivers came to the conclusion that women were not really aroused by men but women. Well men in themselves, at least, as opposed to men engaged in sexual activity. Many women have expressed that they can be very turned on by men on looks alone – so what do you make of this? Attraction is a subjective thing, I think, and who even knows who the volunteers in the study were? Do you think they represent all women?
Chivers said the women were turned on but
1) less so than when observing the female
2) women’s bodies don’t give very good feedback, compared to the male body. So they can be sexually stimulated without realizing it.
re “women have expressed that they can be very turned on by men on looks alone – so what do you make of this?”
That’s been my experience. We aren’t trained to, and our bodies don’t give great feedback. But also, take a look at these posts:
Women Want Emotionally Connected Sex. Why?
http://broadblogs.com/2011/07/20/women-want-emotionally-connected-sex-why/
Men Watch Porn, Women Read Romance. Why?
http://broadblogs.com/2011/05/16/men-watch-porn-women-read-romance-why/
you dont seem to be acknowledging the facts of the actual survey!! she didnt say women were ”more” turned on by images of women, just that the arousal was there. And the fact they they were also aroused by the bonobos almost completely contradicts your whole point, the conclusion she drew was it was arousal by association… ive heard aloot of girls talking, most girls i know are completely grossed out by lesbian experiences!!
She didn’t word it as “women are more turned on by images of women.” She said that blood flow to the vagina was stronger when viewing a naked woman. But that’s the same as arousal.
yeaqh thats what i meant, none of articles i read revealed higher quality blood flow during any of the images, it was very vague and just said that their was blood flow there wigth men women and bonobos, link to the survey/article you read please? as other people have said, it would be very interesting to see the people used as the “porn” or whatever was showed to them, you can bet they were not average females but close to average males- i think thats what mostof your discussion is about. I agree that the portrayal and women that the spotlight is cast on is sexier than men in the same position but these women are sooo far beyond what the average women can look like!!! i read somewhere in there to that men the average male finds the average female sexy but the males need to have something extra to be sexy. I found this very odd since its females that are typically associated with altering their looks in so many different forms, makeup, plastic surgery, fake tan, skin products, enhancements, airbrush in magazines, while males generally do very little- almost the opposite of your point. Even fitness wise, thesegirls do more than you think to look that way, even if they arent muscular they spend alot of time in the gym toning up
Here’s the link: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/25/magazine/25desire-t.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=bonobos%20sex%20study%20blood%20flow&st=cse
Well it said that women watching the strolling man was as exciting as viewing landscapes…I think men even more than women associate nudity with sex, so that’s why men would expect women to be turned on by it. I would really like to see the man in the picture, though. Do you think if a gorgeous, buff, tanned naked guy was strolling down the beach women would be more turned on? Would women still get more aroused by say an average looking woman?
I’ve often wondered what it’s like to be the opposite sex. Since to men being ‘turned on’ usually means having an erection, it’s a pretty simple on/off deal. I’ve heard about the signs of arousal with women, but I always wondered if women really had an equivalent to the male erection. Is the clitoral ‘erection’ really analogous? Most female animals for instance SEEM pretty disinterested in sex: like are attracted to the male, and are receptive, but after the act is done (often even a few seconds) she just goes away. Of course humans and higher apes are different to dogs, so maybe in these societies women developed something like the male sex drive. Females in bonobo society, seem to practice a lot of sex at all times. Bisexuality is universal among all bonobos. In the animal kingdom though it seems males are the ones with the ‘sex drives’ or ‘libidos’, even to the extent that male bisexuality/homosexuality seems alot more common in the animal kingdom than female bisexuality. Which is why in humans I believe there are probably about an equal number of men and women who are flexible about gender (most have a definitely preference though), as in bonobos. If all bonobos (and maybe even chimpanzees) practice homosexuality, perhaps this is innate in humans in their natural state too, but is curtailed by social and religious regulations/rules and social conditioning.
Women rarely have an erection equivilent. Their bodies don’t give good feedback, compared to the male body. That’s likely why their surveys didn’t match their bodily reactions. But women’s sexuality is more repressed in our culture, too, which is certainly playing a role. In pro-sex (for men AND women) women are highly orgasmic and love sex.
This is a great article. I agree totally. Last year i went through a dark 6 month period of gender dysphoria, and was very alienated from my own male body. Im a feminine male, and i felt that the only way to express this femininity was through looking like a female. I was hurt by mass media telling me that as a male, i could never be beautiful.
Ive since invested alot of time studying male beauty and feel reunited with my anatomy. I think a huge proportion of the world see through the tinted glasses of heteronormativity, and the stereotyped straight male.
I’m so glad that you’ve been able to work your way through this.
Women have a similar problem in that they often feel that only a narrow notion of female physicality is beautiful, and that they don’t fit it. Many women are harmed or working their way through that.
Thank you for sharing your experience with this as a male.