If Sports Were Covered Like Women’s Beach Volleyball
In case you missed this… interesting contrast between photos of men’s and women’s beach volleyball. For men you find tough, competitive guys:
And for women:
Oh, and here’s a woman actually playing the sport. In that outfit she stays sexy!
Interestingly, there are a number of pics of women listed under “men’s beach volleyball” but no men on the women’s list.
When Nate Jones, over at Metro.us, innocently searched for pics of women’s Olympic beach volleyball, he was left asking, “What if every Olympic sport was photographed like beach volleyball?” Here’s a sampling of what that would look like (you can see all his pics by clicking here):
As the camera hones in on women’s body parts and ignores men’s, you can see why all of us – men and women – come to think of women as the sex objects in our society. Even the fact that women volleyball players wear such a skimpy outfit doubles down on the whole, “women as sex object” thing.
And so ignored men’s bodies leave us ignoring men-as-sexy while the women’s body-focus makes them all about sex. And actually, that’s not very good for our sex lives – or for well-rounded lives. For more on that, see the posts below.
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Posted on August 13, 2012, in feminism, gender, men, objectification, psychology, sex and sexuality, sexism, women and tagged feminism, gender, men, psychology, sex and sexuality, sexism, women, women’s beach volleyball. Bookmark the permalink. 83 Comments.
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“He is awfully angry or a channel for anger. I find the attitude tiresome.
One thing that didn’t make sense is that women get paid less, even when more people watch women’s soccer than men’s soccer.”
It’s his schtick, it doesn’t bother me because he adds the goofy smartass quips. I saw a lot of goofy wit like him mocking how men are neandethals with sports and the acting out. He like many comedians jokes about most groups, he joked and mocked men just as much as women in that skit. There was a good point though I feel he made about viewership with kardashians and such shows. Those women to make tons of $ and the viwership is mostly from women. So while wnba is new and other stuff why it doesn’t have viewrs. But if women were interested or watching women’s sports like they do with these reality, drama cat fight shows.
The the ratings would be huge for women’s sports and the women pro athletesd would be making $ like the men because they’d be big stars and stadiums filled out. Is that our culture too? Most guys don’t care for such shows and the demographics most likely show it’s mostly women. The few men who watch it are probably gay men which is a small part of population. It is interesting tho that shows with drama and women competing with each other has more women viewing tho then teammwork sports like basketball. Interesting, it seems like when men view things where men in conflict with each other, it’s also in sporting type of show instead of drama series or reality show. People joke about pro wrestling being a soap opera for men, but it kind of is. Even tho that stuff is fake, it’s presented with athletic views so in a sporty fashion, Then you have combat sports too
That’s an interesting comparison. I don’t watch shows like the Kardashians and the Bachelor so I’m not sure exactly how these women are behaving on TV. What kinds of things do they do?
I don;t watch the shows. But from what I’ve seen from clips or memes is even the sisters will get in arguments or spats and drama. And I think shows like housewives of atlanta exist because they get ratings and that’s mostly women watching. Those are reality shows or women who are wives of pro athletes so this materialistic world, but where women get into fights and compete or tear each other down. Bill Burr uses points through comedy. That’s why he was being a goofball acting out like insults like, maybe not is literally said in such shows but how women would yell things to each other. These women make tons of money because of the views and ratings and most of that is from women watching. If that many women watched wnba, the women athletes would be making $ close to the nba players. The owners would see the $ the women make for the league and they just can’t pay less because another team’s owner would get them and pay them big because these women bring the money from viewers. The star wnba players would matter more. But wnba is actually losing $ instead
I wonder if the appeal of shows like the Housewives and Bachelor is partly that women experience aggressive feelings, but are taught that they shouldn’t express them, so use these housewife spouts as a conduit for their own feelings. Cathartic.
Things may be changing, but for centuries, the only emotion men are allowed to feel and expresses anger. And that’s the only emotion that women aren’t supposed to feel and express.
Guys, on the other hand are taught sports, which helps them to express aggression, but experience teamwork at the same time, which is interesting. May have something to do with historically men have been the warriors, because they are indeed, bigger and stronger, in early days, women needed to breast-feed and didn’t have birth control. So lots of babies to breast-feed. Hard to do that and be a warrior at the same time. Plus, you simply need more women than men to keep a population going. And then competition that involves teamwork is good practice for warriors.
This post from me isn’t about sports and objectification, It’s just one of the blogs I saw about men and women’s sports, so I thought I’d post in this one. I saw stuff about women wnba players feeling they should have pay similar to nba players or profit nba players make to there’s. The NBA actually funds or uses pay to fun the wnba for it to exist and wnba has been losing money. Sometimes arguments are valid, like women;s soccer is pretty popular. But I noticed this too and its in the numbers, even for women’s sports like soccer and tennis, it’s still more men that watch women’s sports than women watch women’s sports. So men play a bigger role in women’s sports popularity. And my anecdotal experience, I’ve noticed it too.
There’s more men who watch nfl football, but there’s a ton of women too. If a woman watches women’s sports more often she’s fan of a male sports team too,whereas. I see many women, for instance my work place who like the dallas cowboys, dolphins, etc but don’t watch women’s sports. I find good comedians can bring up subjects where even if you don’t agree with what they are saying, you see their point of view and still find it funny because how how they deliver it. I like Fluffy, Gabriel Igelias more as a comedian, but I do find Bill Burr pretty funny depending on his skits. He;s not conservative either, I think he admitted being basically what’s in the middle, I see him that way too. I found this skit funny and I think he did make a point about women’s sports and how men shouldn’t be blamed about lack of viewership on women’s sports.
Here;s the clip https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I745Ajeq_B8
He’s not PC, I’ll say that, but I did find it funny, maybe I’m an asshole too. But good comedians can be non pc, and a little dickish, but make good points in a funny way or has good delivery. I watched what are called youtube reaction videos where regular ppl watch popular clips and show their thoughts. And all the women reacting to it had “omg I can’;t believe he said, that but then laughed and were like, he is right”
Hi Bob. Good to hear from you even when I’m not posting much – or nothing as it happens.
The reason why both men and women are more likely to watch men’s sports is that men’s sports like the NBA have been around longer and have had a long time to build a fan base. Now people have their teams, they have often been fans of over generations, what are the WNBA is new and doesn’t have that history of allegiance. Patriarchy is involved partly in women not having had teams until recently. But patriarchy doesn’t mean it’s man’s fault. We live in a patriarchal system that men and women are both raised in and internalize, so that it seems natural and normal to both women and men.
That said, there are some women sports that are very popular. Like during the Olympics women’s skating is one of the most popular events in the winter and women’s gymnastics is one of the most popular in the summer. Interestingly, they are both sports that historically have been associated more with women than men. Maybe because they are more like dance? Or expressive and women are expected to be more expressive and associated more with dance? So I guess if it’s gender roles, that people are comfortable with, given their socialization/internalization of their culture. Women have better balance and flexibility than men, too, so that gives him certain advantages given the thing that drives people to the sports, which is more balance, flexibility, rhythm, rather than muscular strength. Men can have just as much rhythm as women, but they are kind of socialized to be stiffer, I guess because women are allowed more expressiveness. Expressing emotions, which is largely what dance represents.
And I have an unrelated question. I see that this is TikTok on YouTube. So if you watch it, does that tie you into TikTok? I am not a fan because I think it’s a Chinese tracking system that was likely put in place to spread Chinese propaganda at some point.
It shouldn’t be tiktok I believe. it’s a youtube clip that someone probably recorded from tiktok and uploaded on youtube. It doesn’t tie you into tiktok it’s just a short clip from youtube
Thanks for the info.
I think what you pointed out is why there is more popularity in women’s sports like figure skating, because women have the advantage on men. It’s about grace and finesse. I’m not sure if it’s because wnba is new, like he asked audience, the women what the wnba team is in their own city or name 5 players from an wnba team and they couldn’t answer. The wnba has been losing $ for a while now. That’s why I’m not sure sports like wnba would ever be close to as popular to nba, same how women’s college basketball isn’t popular like men’s. There is uconn women’s team who get views, but it’s because of the history and how successful they’ve been. But the actual women’s tournament for college bball pales in comparison to men’s with viewer interest and ppl watching. And I saw it’s because of the skills and what the sports skills that are part of the game and type of athleticism. Women have the edge with grace and flexibility to men, probably why women’s gymnastics is popular too.
But basketball, the fun part of watching it is the quickness, the speed, the razzle dazzle plays.Just fast paced, explosive plays. It’s human nature to desire explosive plays on tv or in the audience. The women are talented, but it’s just true that men’s college basketball players are quicker, faster and stronger then the women and it makes for an exciting game for viewer. Same for nba players compared to wnba. Don’t viewers often like action movies that have high flying stunts? Or explosions etc? NBA players have thunderous dunks, there’s a physicality and acceleratin, change or direction, dribbling and quick cuts and fast running down the court. The biggest part that gets ratings too is not the appeal to die hard fans, but casual viewers.
What get’s their attention? Whether men or women? It’s the flashy, high flying plays that men are better at doing. It’s not just about dunking, but few women can dunk and it’s not the same of course with the power and alley oops men can do. And crazy half court shots Curry hits that look so easy for him. I think it’s the same reason a women’s pro football league would never be all that popular, because the skills sets that make basketball and football entertaining to ppl which is power and speed, etc, is in men’s favor. Figuring skating is based more with finesse which is why women are more popular in that sport. Women’s basketball is just a “slower” game compared to men’s basketball. I don’t watch much nba as I like nfl more. But it’s just crazy how fast these men are and at their size. Lebron james is a big man at 6’8 260lbs, yet this game is literally able to just race down the court at like 20mph and crazy fast then you consider the size and weight his body has to move at such speed. Just shows the crazy athleticism of nfl and nba players. In the nfl you have 270lb lineman moving like gazelle’s, it’s just insane
He is awfully angry or a channel for anger. I find the attitude tiresome.
One thing that didn’t make sense is that women get paid less, even when more people watch women’s soccer than men’s soccer.
I still think the lower viewership is largely because the WNBA is new compared to NBA. You grow up with your parents rooting for a team and you root for them. And then this new team comes up and you don’t pay attention because you’re already rooting for the home team.
By contrast in the US soccer is relatively new for both men and women’s teams. Generally speaking, neither has a strong footing yet. Given that relative equality and women having more success winning, it makes sense that women’s soccer would be more popular and make more money. So women should be paid more.
But I agree that women’s physical attributes make for better gymnasts and ice skaters while men’s physical attributes, make for a better basketball players (taller, more muscular), and may well enhance the viewers experience in that way and contribute to the difference in viewership.
Also, as I was saying before it’s not men’s fault and men aren’t being blamed. Patriarchal system values men and masculinity over women and femininity which can contribute to men being paid more. Both men and women are socialized into the system and re-create it. The way out is to become aware of what’s happening and consciously make change.
Did you watch the clip or whole clip if you’re nervous about that, here’s a youtube clip that doesn’t show tiktok on it. The last video was just what someone screen captured from tiktok, and uploaded on youtube. It’s not from tiktok. But here’s this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QY9Gz_IMn_k
Thanks.
“A lot of my women students have told me that they are very interested in understanding the guys’ perspective, so a lot of them would be interested in what you have to say about this. And the video. I noticed all of the women in the audience, for instance. I really appreciate your helping to present this.”
I believe he’s a dating coach or something like that who helps women find love or like dating tips. Youtube just feature it which is why I watched it. That’s why it’s mostly women in the audience, because he gives general dating advice but helps give the view point from men. Explaining why guy’s do whatever when it comes to dating, or things to look for and explaining things that might get in the way for women. I do like how he doesn’t bull shit tho. As a man he was on cue in this clip for how men feel or how it is if brutally honest.
Thanks again for highlighting videos like this and bringing your own perspective, too!
“And I think part of it is thinking about who you REALLY are. You may age and become less attractive with age but what’s really important? It made me think more about developing your personality, gaining depth of experience, gaining wisdom, being good human beings — and after thinking it through I came away feeling that all that is much more important than the outer shell.”
That’s true, but I don’t mean to generalize. Women can compartmentalize, but it does seem like men do it more. I agree with that, but my perspective is my situation now and how I look at things vs how I would look at things later based on my life experience and desires. I care more about my physical attractiveness more to go along with my personality is because I’m single. My mind and pride is geared about how attractive I am compared to other guys because my desire is attracting multiple attractive women and I know I have the traits for that.
So during this period it’s more ego based during this pursuit. When you’re single, it’s often about being attractive and viewing things that perspective. It’s not a surprise however when ppl are married and settled down especially for many years. Don;t you notice how the husband and wife gain weight and have their comfortable bodies and wear more comfortable clothes than stylish stuff out and about ha. It’s because they are in that stage of comfort with each other and they aren’t interested or trying to attract anybody nor ego for that. Then you add to the fact especially when people age and get old, the looks matter less because looks fade but the personality stays. There’s that older wisdom, they are old, they aren’t caring to impress, they’ve lived their life and just look at their SO and such things differently. I guess you call these stages in life.
The same person can place more importance on different things based on where they are in life. I don’t say I care but I will have pride in the combination of physical and personality traits because I’m single. Though I’m quite sure I wouldn’t care much or at all if married and like married and have kids for like 10 plus years. I’ll definitely not care about looks when I’m old, because well, I’m old. And I’d just be happy if I’m still married that I have a life long intimate friend (wife) which it like turns to more when ppl get old as looks fade and I think like sex and stuff is more secondary if had at all when ppl are like late 60s especially 70s and older.
So I do see the value in taking that perspective about inner beauty and I definitely would be that way. It’s really because I’m single and I left a lot on the table with dating. I know I’m attractive but didn’t try like I should have and like some ego stroking would go a long way of me being content. Thus being found sexually attractive based on the combination of physical and personality, my opinion a man that’s strong in both areas sets himself from other men. Just like a man who is smarter, funnier, more athletically, musically talented, or more successful sets himself apart from the average man.
I can understand where you are coming from. I do think that depth is important to develop, at least eventually.
Luckily I have that. Look at how deep thinking I am with a good helping of goofball lol
It’s true that you have depth in many areas — in your goofball kind of way. And I can understand your focus on physical beauty, but I do question the amount of emphasis people in our society generally place on it when it is just the outer shell. And as I said, when thinking through Brave New World, I could see how loss of looks can bring focus and attention to depth in that particular area.
That said, you seem to be pretty good at having guy relationships anyway. No I’ve seen research that women’s relationships tend to be more satisfying, maybe because of all of the above. Whereas men are more likely to watch sports together, play sports, which leaves them in less emotionally strong relationships, and more dependent on women to get that sort of thing.”
You know what I like about comedy is it can talk about real issues but ease tension through parody or laughter. SNL is very hot or cold, a lot of stuff is not good and sometimes a lot of liberal stuff, which it is. Tho I did like the Alec Baldwin skits playing donald trump lol. But there are some good ones, I found this one pretty funny/amusing about men’s lack of relationships especially married men or one’s who have kids settled down. Maybe they need to have man parks ha
I don’t have a bunch of friends, unfortunatley some are hard to see because they have kids and busy and stuff. So they don’t do a lot. And my close friend is very busy often. But I’m lucky that my close friend is unique in the sense he’s like a regular masculine dude. But he has no issue of talking about stuff bothering him or me. He actually annoys me sometimes because he has a keen sense of things being off with something bothering a person by their vibe. And he’ll ask me what’s wrong and he has no qualms of me getting stuff off my chest if somethings bothering. I usually don’t like too, but sometimes I might. It depends on if I feel I can fix something or it’s frustrating me or I’ve talked about it before. If I have, then I won’t because I can get upset and turn into a bad mood if I wasn’t before. Sometimes ppl need to talk about stuff and other times they need a break, it’s not just men, but women can need a break to just decompress internally their thoughts too.
Yes, women and men both need to be able to decompress, but I think women tend to have more opportunity to do so because of their socialization, which is more relationship-focused.
And at the end of that video the woman says that she thinks women have an easier, before wanting to take the comment back. I think men do have it easier in some ways because there’s less gender discrimination against them but that women have it easier in other ways because they are socialized to have relationships, experience emotions (except anger) and talk about things, they don’t constantly have to prove they’re women (men have to prove they deserve that superior gender status — which isn’t based on anything real). And this is a good example of how patriarchy ends up hurting men.
I feel like the younger generations are much less sexist (and racist) so that may help in some ways. At the same time I feel like technology is making them more isolated, and media is increasingly becoming an equal opportunity oppressor when it comes to modeling unachievable physical perfection, which will hurt them.
Not gonna lie, I wouldn’t mind a man park lol. Funny thing is seeing the comments on that youtube clip and a bunch of guys commenting said that would be a good idea ha
🙂
I hope the video works right. Sometimes when I watch them before I approve the comment it skips to the next video and I tried to keep that from happening.”
Yeah, it’s true how inequality can cause that. But sometimes certain things,it feels like women really just like “Favorable” equality. Meaning the positive things of equality like obviously equal pay based on ability and women valued like men and not as sex objects or that stuff, etc. But I think women prefer and like the expectation not on them because of men being seen as leaders and not equality that way as far as dating. You saw on the tinder experiment, men don’t like rejection but it’s something a guy has to be more used to than women and not something women want to go through. And prefer not doing so for the sake of equality.
That woman in the tinder experiment was ready to quit tinder using her guy friend’s profiles from all the rejections ha. And he was doing good considering most men. And that’s what men often deal with. Women probably appreciate the expectation is not of them to work coal mines, sewers, rough back breaking jobs like 90% plus men do. I don’t see women signing up for them ha. And idk if you noticed, which was kind of messed up and seemed to lack empathy. When Bill maher said educated women won’t date men without degrees and the women in the audience clapped and he said “you’ll be alone for life” ha. Men falling behind and women turning down guys without degrees, and that’s their response. I don’t think women care for that change, as it seems like it benefits dating up if you can. Sometimes it feels like women may want “beneficial equality” but not whole equality like I said with dating and making a move or dating down when they can get the benefits of dating up
I don’t see not being able to ask guys out as favoring women, and never have. It always made me feel powerless. And I did try approaching a guy once and he was really weird so I didn’t try it again. And it wasn’t that I didn’t like rejection per say so much as I felt like the culture wasn’t ready for that yet.
And I have surveyed my students on this and they feel as I did that when a woman asks a man out she feels like she’s doing it out of desperation, so that it comes across differently.
In addition, the last survey I saw both men and women preferred that men do the asking and willing to the accepting. Most likely due to socialization into our expected roles.
Finally, I read “self-made man” about a woman who passed as a man for 18 months. She said the rejection was hard. She also noticed that men are socialized differently from women. Men from the time they are little are socialized to take a lot of insults and ribbing the girls aren’t, which I think prepares guys for all the rejection males get from asking people out.
So to make things equal you really need a shift in the culture. People talking about the need for change and not just blaming one another.
Your answer actually leads up well to something else I wanted to show. I know I keep on showing you videos but they are short. Once you watch a clip, there’s side clips on youtube that show up that get your attention. Anywhoo, I think men do want to approach and women to be approached. I think this matthew hussy guy made a good point. As a guy I do agree with a lot he’s said. I guess he can help women because he brings the guy perspective in dating but something that both men and women can do to work with each other to make relationships and dating work.
It’s true tho, seriously, it’s too bad a few creepy men ruin things, but most guys are not only nervous to approach but don’t do so because they fear it might be seen as creepy or not the right moment. It’s true, seriously, women have such self esteem issues because of ads and social media where they don’t think they are attractive because they don’t look like women in ads. But god, there are sooo many attractive women everyday all over the place that don’t look like models, every day women. He’s right, men would be approaching women left and right that they are attracted to if men didn’t care about the right moment or how it could make women feel. I don’t mean obvious stuff, guy’s shouldn’t be approaching women on the street or subway or stuff that would be weird. I’ve heard gyms aren’t good places either.
But like grocery, retail, mall, etc you name it. But like I guarantee you just during the week at regular places at stores, etc. It’s interesting there can be women wondering why they aren’t approached or not be decent guys. And to many guys, women don’t seem approachable for situations and reasons he explained. The interesting is same women could have wanted to be chatted up but either have rbf (resting bitch face) or a big group of female friends, seems busy or not friendly. But that seems like often thus guys thinking well, it’s hard to meet women because it feels like women don’t want to be approached.
I get it, at such places ppl go out and about and busy and it’s same for guys. But even if busy, I don;t know how a single guy doesn;t notice an attractive woman and there isn’t a time he wouldn;t be interested in a woman, like I said there’s so many attractive women just out and about. But it feels challenging doing so and women don’t need to approach guys but I guess be more approachable if they want to be. Otherwise guys they might want to approach won’t but instead the players who approach everyone do instead.
A lot of my women students have told me that they are very interested in understanding the guys’ perspective, so a lot of them would be interested in what you have to say about this. And the video. I noticed all of the women in the audience, for instance. I really appreciate your helping to present this.
I’ve seen some studies that suggest men are pickier than women are when it comes to looks, so I’m not sure what to make of the differences in the studies. The study I saw was from maybe 10 or so years ago and maybe young people are different now? Maybe there’s just a certain amount of luck to all this, too?”
Idk, but it sure seems like women care more about looks on dating apps. Idk it’s probably a combination of things my profiles are funny and I mean my pictures are good. I’ve worked on them, I’ve changed them, I’ve had my buddies gfs look at mine and give tips, etc. Oh well. The thing that sucks about it, is dating apps can make ppl either self conscious of their looks or more neurotic and thinking about it more as a result. Luckily It hasn’t effected my belief in my physical attractiveness, caused me to think more about my physical attractiveness to women. Like if a pretty woman checks me out or I seemed to have caught her attention or her flirt, etc whatever. I’d feel good, but I wouldn’t think about much more than that. After using dating apps and seeing the success of my friend but not the best success for myself. I mean I might have more success if we consider matches than many guys and some dates, but to me, it’s not.
But anyway after that, there’s more validating satisfaction when a hot woman or women check me out in person, in public after me hardly ever getting matched with pretty women on the apps. I didn’t doubt my attractiveness because of the apps. But I guess more satisfying for that attention that confirms imo dating apps are full of shit lol making it like such women are out of my league or I’m not a handsome guy. Because like I said, same women that are as pretty or prettier than women swiping left on me on the dating apps are checking me out when they see me in person. And it’s not like I’m talking to them, I mean I do for some like if it’s a barista or something. But I mean it’s not my personality causing that so it’s visual physical. I do have a lot of personality but just pointing that out. So when I get the looks in public I internally think “that’s what I thought bumble, you’re full of shit bumble” lol
Well one thing to think about is how much we should base our self-esteem on our looks in the first place. I mean the outer shell is in some ways kind of superficial. And some of the happiest couples I know aren’t especially attractive. Thoughts?
True, and personality matters more. I guess I have great confidence in my personality so I feel I don’t have to worry about it. There are ppl who should focus and it hurts them because they may be pretty but they are jerks, dumb or vapid, etc. So not attractive. I care about looks not as the sole thing but like complete package thing. I’ll just be up front, I’m not cocky, a self absorbed jerk, I feel I have a lot of empathy, I can be selfish at times, I’m human. But I’m not humble, it is what it is. I’m just to driven to be good at things, successful, that I can’t help being competitive and often having high standards and expectations of myself and how I perform. God bless those couples you know, they sound humble. I hate “average” with a passion.
I don’t like it at all and it’s like the plague to me. I’m all about focusing on what I’m good at and I probably won’t do things which I”m average at or not good at. I’ll notice things I’m good at and often keep interest or find what I’m good at compared to not doing things that I’m not good at, because I don’t enjoy it. Imo, an average looking guy with a nice personality from sexual attracting stand point is average to me. When ppl say that, it’s almost like they are pointing on the man’s personality as like “making up for ” or compensating for what he lacks physically. It’s true a good looking guy is lacking attractiveness too if he lacks personality. I just feel a man separates himself from being “average” if he’s good looking AND has an engaging personality. I don’t mean movie star looking but above average, but also having an outgoing, funny, charming personality.
I take pride because I don’t feel I have to compensate with my personality, and don’t want too because I’m not average. Being good looking plus the personality kind of makes a person kind of like more complete package or jack of all trades as far as like appealing traits go. I know my pride is my flaw, but I just enjoy, whatever it is, just being good at things and focused on my traits that separate me from other men in a competitive sense. I don’t mean the best, ppl shouldn;t do that or they’ll never be happy because there are so many talented, good looking, smart ppl. But more focused at least and take pride on what I feel I have that makes me “above average” to other guys
You hate average with a passion but some people are lucky to be blessed with looks that a society values while others are not, and they can’t do a whole lot about it. But I think it may make them wiser. I think it helps them to get beyond the outer shell.
Brave New World is an interesting book in this regard in that the people take drugs to stay youthful their whole lives, though they pay a price by dying young. But it made me start thinking about what can be gained from aging and losing your looks. And I think part of it is thinking about who you REALLY are. You may age and become less attractive with age but what’s really important? It made me think more about developing your personality, gaining depth of experience, gaining wisdom, being good human beings — and after thinking it through I came away feeling that all that is much more important than the outer shell.
I do appreciate your perspective. You seem pretty humble. And I have a lot of respect for people who are humble. I know ppl, my my cousing who doesn’t care what others think or like comparison, competitive stuff. I don’t care what others think, but I do try to be good at things. Whereas he’s in a way kind of a simple man. Yeah he has an ego, everybody does, but he’s just good with who he is and doesn’t want more I guess idk. I think lynyrd skynyrd spelled it out in the song “simple man”.
“Forget your lust for the rich man’s gold
All that you need is in your soul
And you can do this oh babe if you try
All that I want for you my son is to be satisfied
And be a simple kind of man
Oh be something you love and understand
Baby be a simple kind of man
Oh won’t you do this for me son if you can
Oh yes I will”
I’m struck by people who we think of a successful who killed themselves, like Kurt Cobain, Chester Bennington of Linkin Park, Anthony Bourdain, Kate Spade and many more.
I certainly do think there is something to be said for striving and being your best person. But there’s also the question of what is actually meaningful and fulfilling in life. In terms of what you are working for.
I tried posting what I said for first post. Hopefully it worked this time
Hey Bob, yes I got it! I will respond on Monday or Tuesday. I’m traveling right now.
No, the first post didn’t show up. Could you clue me in?
Here;s the video link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZTIbHIsIYw&t=154s
darn wifi, it showed that it sent but some reason didn’t show up. This clip has gone viral and interesting. I think it shows not just how damaging social media can be, but digital stuff in general like dating apps especially for men. I’ve talked about my annoyance with using them despite having a few dates. But this guy according to the woman, said he was a good looking guy. Good pictures, interesting job, above average looks. Points out that it’s not just average guys but above average too. Maybe that 1% group of men, but even if a guy is not that 1% good looking like young marlon brando, it doesn’t mean he’s not handsome. Just not THAT handsome which most ppl are’t that men or women. The guy had matches but as she noticed most were not whom were attractive. The few attractive one’s either didn’t reply, or put very little effort in reply and just ghosted. She thought it would be fun and crazy how by day 5 this was hurting her feelings and she wanted to delete in just one week after trying it. She said how it was for her and totally different.
She heard what it was like but said it’s another thing actually using the app as a guy and literally seeing how it was. Dating apps seem like a different universe from real life tho. A small percent it might go well for guys but most that aren’t model handsome or top tier profession maybe or something not so much. Seems like way more nitpicking which is not great. Seems like people end up treating each other like commodities. It’s good to want value and be selective, but it’s another thing to nitpick non important things, but when there are so many options for attractive women, I guess it’s hard to not see what you can be picky about and best upgrade you come across. But like I said about the different universe. That woman is cute, pretty imo.
She’s not like hot or very hot imo. But my point is on apps, even handsome guys are more often swiped left and hardly matched by cute or pretty women, but not like hot or very attractive ones. Whereas like me and other guys who others find pretty handsome, will get attention or checked out sometimes maybe googly eyes once in a while by same women of attractiveness or hotter. And not to do with personality, but just eye contact or such women seeing you walking by or amongst in person without showing your personality so physically attractive. I know have personality so I know that;s attractive too and value that, I’m just pointing out the physical side. It’s why dudes can’t take dating apps literal, because odds the women swiping pass them doesn’t mean they aren’t handsome or attractive in person. It’s just a different universe from real life or in person.
So the basic idea seems to be that when the woman posed as herself she got more positive response than when she posed as an attractive guy (and I agree that he is an attractive guy).
There are a lot of possible reasons for this. I have a friend who doesn’t really trust attractive guys because she thinks they’re too snobby. Maybe that’s a problem? When she said that I could kind of see her point. And then when Molly Ringwald was doing “pretty in pink” she told the Director that a real girl would go for the less attractive Andrew McCarthy over the more model looking guy. And I could see that. Maybe for the same reason?
I saw another study where actual people approached women and the women were much more likely to say yes to another woman that to a man. My memory is that it was thought that women are just less scary in terms of people you don’t know.
And other data suggest that both women and men think that women are nicer than men so maybe wanting that nice relationship?
I also read about a woman whose partner wanted to have an open relationship because I guess he was going on dating sites and actually getting a lot of response, but that was before he followed up and he thought he would have all these women after him. His girlfriend finally agreed and so they both did these dating websites and she had way more luck than he did. When it came to actually getting together pretty much no women were that interested. My memory is that the women were often just seeing if they could get guys to like them, kind of for an ego boost (women’s self-esteem is highly dependent on how attractive they believe they are). So they wanted the ego boost but the idea of going out with a strange guy was a little scary.
I’m guessing guys would generally have more luck with women who have opportunities to get to know them before they are asked out. Other research finds that the more you see someone, literally just see someone in person, the more likely you are to like them.
Yeah, but that’s the thing. You said how women felt about attractive guys and thinking a guy might be a snob to swiping left on him. My point was that the notion of only good looking guys being swiped on was false unless considers only movie star good looking guys as to mean good looking. That’s not true. Even if a guy is not THAT good looking, doesn’t mean he’s not good looking. But stats showed that only super good looking men, 10% were getting like all the matches and dates.
I find that interesting about some womens perceptions of handsome guys, like if they think he might be a jerk or cocky. There was an instance where I didn’t know how to take it. A few years ago I went out with my friend and his gf. He saw a woman he knew and they wanted me to talk to her friend. I wasn’t really interested but I tried, she wasn’t interested. Anywhoo, my buddy was over and texting the woman he knew and I guess they were talking about me.
The woman he knew, she was pretty imo but with someone. But the woman was asking about me from the perspective of looking out for her friend. He told me that she texted him saying that I’m a good looking guy but am I a jerk? I guess she wanted to know for her friends sake.
Good thing is most don’t get that impression because of my personality and maybe vibe I give. But I felt conflicted, because I didn’t want to wondered if I’m a jerk. But it made me think I must’ve crossed the threshold of being hot right? Maybe I am a jerk lol. There’s handsome, then so handsome one wonders if you’re a jerk. Jk. I think she just must’ve had bad experiences with good looking guys .
Yep. You may have crossed into the hot threshold 🙂
I’ll respond to your other comment when I get around to watching the videos. Stay tuned.
But what I was saying with dating apps. The problem is there are men, maybe not a big percent that do get with women on them. It can be frustrating for guys who are attractive to feel ignored. And like the dating apps are saying attractive are out of your league because of the lack of matches from them when the same attractive guy would get looks or checked out in public by women of similar attractiveness.
I know it’s good to not compare. I have a friend, where he’s gone on dates somewhat regularly from bumble. Nice dude, he’s doing well for himself, I like him and happy for him. He’s a good looking guy, tall and in good shape too. Nice medical related job. (He’s not a doctor) but good job. But that’s where comparison is not a good thing. I said it seems like to the average guy I’m doing better considering how few matches a lot get. Whereas I have some in beginning but swipe past some. So my friend went to a guy we know, his place. He has a big man cave and bar at his house.
We go there and the friend, good looking guy I brought up was there and he had a lady friend with him there. Yeah. She was pretty hot. Apparently crop tops are back…blonde hair, pretty face, she seemed to have fun around our jokes and company. I remember when we left and I was riding in my friends car with his gf. Telling him “if I didn’t already resent bumble before, I sure as hell do now” lol. I’ve gotten dates but lucky to get them sparingly from dating . Meanwhile the other friend be getting blonde bombshells apparently from bumble ha. Even tho he’s more likely better looking than me, I didn’t think he was that much more. But yes there’s a big difference with his bumble success compared to mine. 😒
I’ve seen some studies that suggest men are pickier than women are when it comes to looks, so I’m not sure what to make of the differences in the studies. The study I saw was from maybe 10 or so years ago and maybe young people are different now? Maybe there’s just a certain amount of luck to all this, too?
There’s other stuff I came across I found interesting that I thought I’d share. I wasn’t looking for it. Just video suggestions pop up on YouTube. I know you’ve gone over on your blog about Mens struggles too. So some already brought up, but I thought the conversation adds more depth and light to an issue that seems to be getting worse for men nowadays.
This is sad. I know what lonely feels like, not to that degree. But it’s not fun. And it’s very emotionally painful. I think most have had that feeling at some point. Buy think of it magnified to such level. There’s many things as well to this but no wonder men I think 8 more times likely to commit suicide compared to women.
This video was very telling too about a crisis of young men.
The second video here digs more into multiple things but I thought I’d add to go with previous video
I hope the video works right. Sometimes when I watch them before I approve the comment it skips to the next video and I tried to keep that from happening.
I actually saw that conversation on Bill Maher’s show, and I was wishing I was on the panel. The interesting thing is that all of these problems man are experiencing are rooted in patriarchy and how we form the male role in the US.
I’ve written about some of this before. Below are some links. If I didn’t address one of your points let me know. (I wanted these posts, “feminists must fight for men’s rights?” You’ll have to scroll down to get my point.)
Men’s higher suicide rate
https://broadblogs.com/2015/07/08/men-commit-suicide-because-of-feminism/
Hypergammy, etc.
https://broadblogs.com/2014/10/24/feminists-must-fight-for-mens-rights/
Difficulty men have getting sex
https://broadblogs.com/2014/05/30/elliott-roger-blames-women-for-patriarchys-problems/
One of the other points is that it’s harder for men to have relationships because they feel uncomfortable being vulnerable and dependent, which are outside the male role. Boys are typically taught to do sports which is competitive whereas girls are taught to nurture a doll or have a tea party, where they have to think about what other people want. So girls are socialized to create relationship.
That said, you seem to be pretty good at having guy relationships anyway. No I’ve seen research that women’s relationships tend to be more satisfying, maybe because of all of the above. Whereas men are more likely to watch sports together, play sports, which leaves them in less emotionally strong relationships, and more dependent on women to get that sort of thing.
You really should be a sociologist!”
I like that even though you hardly post anymore, you check the blog and respond to me. I don’t know about sociologist because while I agree somethings with it and have learned things. There are things with biology I believe in as much. I believe you’re liberal while I’m independent or moderate.
It really depends on the social issue where I don’t like some liberal policies, but likewise I see republican policies or views as shit. It seems like sociologists might skew more liberal or that view, or maybe not. I see the perspective of culture having the effect with how it treats men and women and how that can negatively affect both men and women just in different ways. Btw have you every voted for a republican. Doesn’t mean congress person, or governor but maybe just small level like county. I vote either way depending on who and how I feel about them. Some years it’s mostly republican others I’ve voted many democrats.
The crazy thing about me, is that other than my family or very close friends. I feel many people feel or know I’m pretty intelligent person (this isn’t me trying to brag or that intent), but I think some would be surprised of my depth or like how philosophical I can be or introspective. That reason is because I’m generally not a serious person which is good, as humor and smiles are therapeutic. I’m not funny to be liked which is good as some are and that’s insecurity. I just have a playful, personality and kind of a goofball a lot of times lol. So there were times when I would say funny goofy stuff often to co workers or ball busting and they laugh their asses off or smile, with ppl, another moment I was having a discussion about time with a smart co worker. No, not time as in your watch but as in universe time. He believed it was movement or vibrations in the universe that is time, I believe it was absolute and intangible like eternity and infinite. He felt they were separate, but I saw eternity as basically endless time or time is endless. Humans just quantify it to make sense of it or try to measure something that can’t be.
It’s true that sociologists skew liberal because people who want to make the world better typically join a field that is helpful in thinking through how to do that. Whereas conservatives tend to be pleased with things as they are and want to conserve the status quo.
But there are some conservative sociologists. Since I’m not one of them you don’t tend to hear that perspective much. (And they are a minority.) The conservative sociologists tend toward “functionalist” sociology which suggests that things are the way they are because they function well. “Critical” sociology, which is more my type, look at how powerful groups exploit less powerful groups, and consider how less powerful groups can respond.
You basically have a mind that works well with the discipline. That said, you probably make more money in whatever job you’re doing now than you would as a sociologist, so keep your day job. (My dad warned me I wouldn’t make much money in sociology and it’s true.)
I’m curious to hear more of your perspectives that disagree with mine. I don’t like being in a bubble and I do try to read conservative columnists but you can’t ask them questions.
Yes I had voted for Republicans early in my “voting career,” but that was before I started reading the news much. When I started reading the news it seemed like conservatives tend to comfort the comfortable and afflict the afflicted, like giving tax cuts to the wealthy while talking about getting rid of Social Security and Medicare, as Rick Scott who’s heading the Republican reelection drive, is advocating right now. Or taking away women’s rights like the right to abortion. Or all of the racism you hear on the right.
A funny, goofball philosopher. That actually seems like a nice combination.
On issues of time you should check out the theory of relativity and quantum physics. I only know some rudimentary basics in the area but even an introduction to that field can blow your mind.
Thanks. I have a co worker, I like him, he busts my balls a lot but Is funny. He’s in another department but we work near each other. Anywhoo, one day he was proud of this beef Jerky he made or something. He had them in a zip lock bag and he showed me. They were links tho and like cigar sized. I guess he was expecting me to ask him about the jerky. But I instead asked him why he brought in a bag of dicks to work 🤷♂️. His endearing words to me was fuck you lol, but then he laughed.
So as you can see why ppl who know me might be surprised that I have a deep thinking, philosophical mind when I’m often like that or stuff like that.
Good illustration! I’m sure he would never guess you were a philosopher and goofy!
I broke up my response here, so continued part here.
Years ago, it did bother me but I stopped caring awhile ago. It’s more like annoyance, because I know I’m an attractive guy and I know it’s very competitive on dating apps. But sometimes, I’m thinking who are many of these women swiping on?
There really THAT many men on the apps that are young Marlon Brando handsome? I’m sure there are, but not the hot women but simply pretty women all swiping on these guys? Because like this experiment showed, even above average looking guys aren’t getting similar attractive women swiping on them but lesser attractive more often than not. An they will often put little or no effort in convo too.
That’s the crazy thing as the woman in the video for example. I think she’s cute, pretty. Not hot, but one might see her above average anyway. Women who look like her, even if not “hot”, Even other above average good looking guys rarely get right swiped by these women. It’s not a weird universe dating apps to irl. Whereas irl plenty of handsome guys draw attention from such women or prettier, but on apps they are almost invisible. I’m not saying this to try to brag but yeah, women like her and some actually prettier or just hot, have checked me out or where I drew their attention. Not from my personality with it, which I do have personality.
But purely visual from seeing me. I had one girl very cute, at a Dunkin give me a larger latte and no charge to me because she found me really cute. But like I simply ordered a drink and didn’t show anything from my personality to feel it was from that also. Sometimes I am playful but I wasn’t that time but there ya go. But me on a dating app from such women and………yeah I’m quite invisible. Hell I think I’m more visible to Stevie wonder than to these women….even he could see that…
I hope my previous post showed up, I didn’t see it shoe unlike my second part
No, the first post didn’t show up. Could you clue me in?
Welcome to how my mind watches WWE.
I feel like this is another case of women just can’t exist, the same attitude that makes people feel like they need make up to get a job, or what makes teacher yell at young girls to not look revealing at school eventhough they’re 10. Women when they exist outside in the world, just get viewed as sexual objects, not as some impressive athletes who deserve to be viewed for their power and knowledge, they’re being looked at as “boooottyyy butt cheeksssss”
Which is super insulting when you watch something like football and commentators will be like “johnson had a bowl of pasta so he is not at the top of his game, as we all know his birth star is in the right position so he might pull through he’s earned this” they’ll treat is like we all need a textbook of the player’s ever detail and they’ll comment on the game and their training program, but we never get a good butt shot. I think either women’s sports need to be respected more, or men’s sports should stop looking at the game and start focusing on some butts.
I feel like when it comes to any women’s sports it is usually viewed as like a sexy game, and not being viewed as how male sports are. Also, I’ve noticed that most of the uniforms women’s use when it comes to playing any sports they usually tend to be shorter and tighter. They tend to judge them a lot more when it comes to their body posture and sometimes they tend to view how athletic their body looks. When it comes to women playing sports I also feel like they tend to be more judgemental with a lot of their movements when it comes to playing any sports. When women tend to play sports they usually tend to become more striking with all the moves they’ve done. Even when they play their best they usually tend to focus on the negative part of the game and they make that the highlight of their game.
Wow, that entire blog post was cringing, and I am dumbfounded. Both men and women dress like they are at the beach, hence the sport “beach volleyball.” Women wear their sport bikinis, and men wear their swim trunks. Men wear their shirt most of the time because, in case you haven’t partaken in the sport at all, diving on the sand with your arms open and chest out tends to rub your nipples in a way that is not pleasant.
https://www.google.com/search?q=womens+beach+volleyball&rlz=1C5CHFA_enUS768US768&sxsrf=ACYBGNQj2Uy9c_WGZ2lniDa93bFq6MWQNA:1575594692493&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj7udLP65_mAhUObq0KHWGCDP0Q_AUoAXoECA4QAw&biw=1337&bih=728
I included the google image search for “women’s beach volleyball” just in case you needed a true reference.
Here is the men’s volleyball google image search. If you’ll pay close attention, both searches have results of both celebrating and actually playing the sport. Another observation I made is that you can see up-close pictures of men, not women, shirtless and in a glistening sweat. “And so ignored men’s bodies leave us ignoring men-as-sexy while the women’s body-focus makes them all about sex.” I’m not sure that is the object of this sport at all. In fact, I am pretty sure Kerri Walsh and Misty May were continuously celebrated for their tremendous success at multiple Olympics, and I mean athletic success by the way.
I could get your “women’s beach volleyball” to come up but not the “men’s beach volleyball” so I invite readers to Google the latter themselves and compare. (I won’t put links on my blog that don’t come up correctly.)
I just Googled men’s beach volleyball and:
* While there are no men in skimpy outfits pictured in women’s beach volleyball you can find pictures of women in men’s beach volleyball.
* There are no close-ups of men’s butts in men’s beach volleyball pictures.
Also, you will find few women dressed as skimpily as women’s beach volleyball players on American beaches.
Do you also think the difference in photos and close ups is also because many or a majority of the camera people are men? And since most men are straight, they will zoom in one women’s bodies and do it from the perspective of male viewers in mind. While obviously not caring or wanting to zoom in on a man’s butt obviously. Sure there could be gay men photographers in main network sports events or camera guys, but just odds percentage wise is that it will be a straight man since I believe only 10 percent of the population is gay so a great majority of men will be straight and viewing from the heterosexual male perspective.
I’ve joked about this before, not just about sports but just events on tv in general. That the camera person has to be a guy. Not to say there aren’t women camera ppl, but seeing how things are done, I can’t help feeling many times the camera person is a guy like I said and most likely right. Idk if it’s something just more guys try for or gravitate to for careers in broadcast communications or what but that’s my feeling. But the other example of my belief that more often the camera person is a straight man is, like I said event shows on tv. Whether it’s a stand up comedy show or music awards, concert, men’s pro sports game. Granted they do a general view of the crowd, but they also during the course always so happen to have the camera view to the audience in the stadium and it’s a woman or women and they just so happen to be young and pretty ha.
It makes me smirk as I’m like “yeah that camera person is definitely a guy? It’s like sonar, guy’s are not always observant with things, “how many guys ask their wives where things are in the house, that’s basically right in their face ha”. But a dude can just be chilling not trying to look at anyone and peripheral vision or what, but notice a hot woman that’s like all the way across the room. I mean like can be 100 feet away on like opposite side of a building and his eyes somehow catch it amongst everyone else or things around him even though he’s not looking.
It’s an interesting phenomenon, when guys I know, we all just somehow are away when a beautiful is around even if from a far distance and not looking at her or trying but somehow see her from corner of our eye and obviously catches our attention. But as a result of this, it’s also the reason why zoom in’s don’t happen on men, because one would see, because men are not sexualized. That such close ups or men’s bodies would be “homoerotic” and would be viewed as catering to gay men and not straight women. Straight men don’t want to be object of men’s attention but women’s instead. So another reason men would not want to zoom in or have their bodies zoomed in on as they feel it would instead be “spank bank” material for gay men.
Yes I agree. I think that women are more sexualized in media because men have had more control over media, whether they are the photographers or the directors or the producers or publishers, and most men are straight and they are seeing things from their perspective. And once he did this bombardment both men and women are sensitized/Socialized toward thinking of women as the sexy ones. So even when women gain those positions they could continue the pattern, while adding more men probably, too.
You really should be a sociologist!
By the way, I checked to see whose teaching women’s studies this quarter and the person who uses my blog for her class isn’t teaching any women’s studies courses this quarter (she primarily teaches history) so I probably won’t be posting anything new. Unless I crosspost something that I publish someplace else, if I get around to doing some writing. But I always enjoy hearing from you, so feel free to write in if you have some thoughts or questions.
The difference in women’s and men’s sports starts in funding and doesn’t end in coverage. The outfits or uniforms that women wear are constantly critiqued and pointed out, rather than their athletic abilities or performance. I think a lot of female athletes find that their body is a bigger attraction to the “fans” (or perverts) than their sport. Female athletes do not receive the same recognition or equal pay, because the focus is on their looks or making the sport appealing to viewers by being sexualized rather than promoting their amazing athletic abilities. Also, images like this of females bodies, probably makes female viewers more self conscious. If I were a young beach volleyball player, seeing such vulnerable pictures of extremely fit women would make me think twice if I want to play a sport where my body is exposed in that way to the media and the world. Body image issues are huge for men and women and photography that exposes parts of women’s bodies that are often areas of self consciousness does not help create a positive body image, at all.
I found this post to be especially interesting given that I just responded to a question about the portrayal of women in sports in the media in my Women’s Studies Class. Its crazy to me how much women are objectified or only worth ‘seeing’ or ‘listening to’ when they look or act a certain way, and it makes me think of the time that Serena Williams wore a catsuit while playing tennis ( it was designed to prevent blood clots but she still received criticism for wearing it and the french tennis federation said that the fact that she wore that ( so basically a female wearing anything other than a skirt in the sport) was disrespectful.
Women’s sports in general, do not receive the same type of press and coverage in sports between men. Most of the time when there is press about women, it is unfortunately to shame them on something they are doing wrong. It’s never about how women deserve equal pay as men or how they are seen as just “women” playing sports. It is just not the same as men. For women who play beach volleyball, they are shamed on the outfits they are wearing as too “skimpy” or to “exposed” and it is not fair for women to have to be ashamed every time they play the sport they love. For men they don’t wear a shirt on, they are almost wearing the complete same as a woman. So why do women get shamed? Unfortunately, the media coverage women sports do get in this case is that women are looked at as “sex objects” and it just isnt fair. It isn’t fair to women playing this sport and women also all around who have to deal with this on a different scale. Women are not objects and more clarity about this needs to be said to make a difference in the sports industry and as well as globally.
Looking at these photos next to each other really shows the contrast between how men and women are portrayed in sports. I have always noticed that women are virtually in bikinis when they play, and there are definitely more camera shots that show them as “sexy” rather than the actual athletes they are. This reminds me of when Simone Biles was criticized for having such defined abs, with men suggesting she looked too manly and that they weren’t attracted to her. She was supported by many women, who said: “she’s not got these abs to please you, she has them because she has trained really hard in her sport, and is a very successful athlete.” Serena Williams has also been constantly criticized by the media for also looking too masculine. I wonder why it isn’t okay for men to have a more masculine body, and why men are criticized for being too feminine. The world of sports has always been interesting to me also that women’s soccer is rarely televised compared to men. Is it because they don’t have sexy cheerleaders? Or that the women are also deemed too masculine due to their training when they are excellent at the sport they play? I have watched close friends of mine play volleyball, and they always comment on how members in the audience aren’t necessarily there for the sport, only to look at them. I know their bodies and outfits are fetishized mostly on social media, such as Twitter, and men seem to think it is okay to say “screw the game, I’m just here for the great asses.” To me, that is shocking and really demeaning, especially when these women don’t choose to be eye-candy to men, they are simply playing a sport that they clearly enjoy and are very good at it.
The photo comparison between men’s and women’s volleyball on this blog posting is disheartening but something that we have all seen before. As a female athlete in an aesthetic sport, I hope to have my athleticism valued over my body. However, I believe that the variation between these men’s and women’s beach volleyball photographs is related to two factors: the audience of the photographs and the photographers themselves. If consumers are willing to pay for sports coverage that offers such a huge disparity between images of male and female athletes, then these images will continue to be produced. On the other hand, a self-respecting female photographer and volleyball enthusiast would have a hard time looking herself in the mirror if her best shots of a match were close up shots of player’s bikini bottoms. This observation leads me to believe that most of the photographers taking these types of photographs are men, or women who value their paycheck more than self-respect.
The sexualization of women’s bodies, especially in sports, has never been as rampant as it was in last summer’s Olympic games. My peers and I were having so many conversations regarding the intersectionality of race and gender and how that hurt our women.
Though incredible athletes like Simone Biles, Michelle Carter, and Serena Williams are shattering records left and right, we see a few poignant things. Primarily, perfection doesn’t grant any grace from critics. In fact, the opposite tends to be the case: the better a woman (especially a woman of color) does, the harsher the critique of her body (1), ability (2), and “right” to be there (3).
That all being said, it’s really interesting to look at the flip side of this issue. Over the years, the swimsuit required of men at Olympic games has changed dramatically (4). I would be lying if I said that I didn’t enjoy watching diving with the current men’s uniforms. Which lends me to wonder if I am just another pawn in the sexualization of the athletic body. Questions that need answers!
(1) http://www.salon.com/2015/07/13/stop_body_shaming_serena_williams_its_time_to_break_this_absurd_and_insulting_habit_once_and_for_all/
(2) http://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/simone-biles-claps-back-at-dancing-with-the-stars-criticism-w481388
(3) http://www.teenvogue.com/story/alexa-moreno-olympic-gymnast-body-shaming-twitter-fat
(4) https://www.buzzfeed.com/robstott/so-thirsty-i-could-drink-the-pool?utm_term=.pkgve7aNq#.qbM41lweL
Thanks for bringing up intersexuality. And thanks for the links!
I think it is a shame that in our society women who play sports at the Olympics (and therefore worked very hard to get there) are portrayed as such sex objects. They went there to show their psychical ability and not their toned bodies (because are a result by they hard practice and hard work). I also do not understand why it is a rule in beach volleyball that women need to be almost naked and men can play in shorts and a shirt. Just makes no sense to me. I think we should give men and women an qual opportunity at showing their ability at each sport.
The main reason that women sports are shot from the more sexual or provocative stand point is simply because in our society it very hard to find any thing that aren’t viewed from the male point of view. In a society that would have an equal and open point of view we would probably see more provocative shots of men and not just women. In our society it is more likely that women don’t have a problem looking at other women being objectified for profit for a number of reasons such as: 1.) Is this what my boyfriend needs me to look like for me to be sexy, 2.) I need to be strong and sexy like these women before a man will take me serious, 3.) Simply what does she have that I don’t and 4.) the fact that they just want to watch a great sporting event. Don’t get me me wrong I know that not all women feel this way but when the male point of view skews the prospective of what is being shown on TV we tend to get conditioned. In the same since as a guy who is watching this we tend to learn that objectifying women for profit and pleasure is normal and that a lot of times the women in the lives are suppose to like it just as much
A lot of what you say makes sense.
Weter’s comment – “But the bigger thing for me is obviously for little girls to see they can do everything just like little boys can.” So why isn’t the playing field equal – why can’t boys be as free as girls want to be? Everyone gets the girl trying to play on the PGA tour (btw – I would love to be able to hilt like a girl if that meant hitting like Lexi Thompson, and some others!), or the NFL, etc.
Why can’t boys show emotion, wear color, or silk, have their hair long w/o being called “girly” or “Sissy”. Is that the measure of what we thing of girls – if you show weakness – you are a girl.
Not so much – but it is the perception!
I have never noticed how women’s beach volleyball pictures all consisted of body shots until this article. I typically hear about how women were the tiniest amount of clothing for beach volleyball while men are practically completely covered! It is rare to see a beach volleyball player wearing a one piece but men can wear a long-sleeved shirt and no one would notice. The work of Nate Jones is very clever and effectively gets the point across! The way women’s beach volleyball pictures are taking is absolutely demeaning, pointless to the sport, and awful. This is yet another prime example of how unfortunately, women are not taken seriously in the sports world (probably the world in general).
This article reminds me of controversy of women on Sports Illustrated covers. Women featured on the covers are mostly models, not female athletes. Athletes that do appear on the cover are often depicted in a sexualized manner in their sport (Lindsey Vonn for example).
Good points.
When we are watching women play sports for some odd reason we find it okay to judge their body and appearance. Even though that has nothing to do with how well they are playing the sport Women playing sports is not taken seriously and we lack having women in pro sports. Women are always seen as the cheerleaders for the most part when associating them with sports. Seeing women in pro sports, sports that are televised, is really rare than when dealing with men. With men in sports you have football (Super bowl), baseball (The World Series), etc and they are far less likely to be sexualized like women playing volleyball, gymnastics, tennis, etc. For women it is not about how well they are playing but how they look and how much in shape they are as they play. It tends to come up but why is that exactly? It has nothing to do with her skill and/or talent; it goes to show how we as a society degrade women just because they are women when dealing with athletics/sports.
And the sexualization of the camera shots and context is probably because a majority of camera persons are men. I always found it amusing in games or shows of live comedians performing, there would always be a camera shot to the audience. And there’d always be a camera shot to women who just happen to be hot, or pretty. I call it the hot girl shot ha. And it always made it obvious to me like “yep, the camera holder is definitely a guy” ha. I see that on many tv shows that have an audience, a shot might be of a couple, but its many times a couple which the woman is good looking. It makes me wonder if more women were camera users durinng sporting events or just as many women, if you’d see more camera shots of guy’s bodies in sports or shots of good looking guys in the audience for live comedy shows, etc. Or if women would take objective shots of men and women. It would priobably be more objective shots, but I don’t know for sure.
Yeah, and male directors may be having an effect too.
Because women and men both internalize the culture, female directors and camera operators may still be less likely to zero in on attractive men.
yeah, well men can get seriously hurt. A woman could get killed getting hit by such massive men. There are biological differences and women and men shouldn’t be playing against each other in contact sports. Bowling and nascar is another story, but definitely not contact sports.
You could be right. I simply don’t know enough to say. Did you see this article? Women are getting more injured in some sports in the Winter Olympics because the facilities were made for the male body, and not taking into consideration the female body. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/19/sports/olympics/extreme-park-crashes-taking-outsize-toll-on-women.html?emc=edit_tnt_20140218&tntemail0=y
Yeah this is semi pro football. It’s nice for women to try men’s sports. I don’t see anything wrong such as bowling, as usually strength isn’t that big a of a factor as accuracy is. And many women seem to score as well as men in bowling. But she’s only 130lbs. It sounds like a publicity stunt and I don’t like the idea, because she’s going to get seriously hurt. Quarterbacks are smaller than defensive lineman and linebackers, but quarterbacks are usually pretty big guys too though. Most qbs range between 6’1-6’6 and like 220lbs to 250lbs depending on the qb. All I know is huge guys get seriously hurt playing football, I don’t want to see a woman get walloped and be crippled. These players tackled her, but they didn’t really lay into like I see football players usually do. I watch football and pretty knowlegable about it and I just think this is a bad idea. A woman can show equality in many different ways, but putting oneself in a very physical game like football amongst men, is asking for her to get kiled and is something I and most people don’t want to happen or see of course.
I don’t think that anyone should be denied equal opportunity to try something because of their sex. But I also know that there are biological differences between women and men so that women are better at certain types of sports than men: sports that involve balance, flexibility, and endurance, for instance. Of course, I think that men should be able to have opportunities to do sports that women are better at, on average, too.
You could be right that she could get seriously hurt. But men, as you say, also get seriously hurt. I know a quarterback at Stanford who had to quit football because it was damaging his brain. And he’s not the only quarterback with that problem. I really don’t think tackle football is good for anyone.
I came upon this on yahoo. Where does trying to equality go too far though? In this instance, regarding sports, I think this is stupid. Has to be a publicity stunt. here’s the link though. http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/men-action/201402/groundbreaking-woman-makes-history-playing-pro-football-game
I don’t know enough about the issue to comment. You see huge guys tackling much smaller quarterbacks so I’m not clear on how much of a difference there is with tackling this young woman.
Great post. I hate to see our female athletes sexualized like this, or having the condition of their hair debated. On the other side of the coin, we have the Brit editor who was shocked at the way the female judo competitors were beating the heck out of each other…shame that being born female makes it acceptable to sexualize strength and skill to the point it carries as much competitive weight as watching half-naked women engaged in a pillow fight, or alarms men who want to protect us. Completely insulting.
Interesting how strongly our gender roles stick in place.
Hi, Georgia. Yes, but I believe that your first photo is of Misty May-Traynor, Kerry Walsh’s gold medal-winning partner in beach volleyball (not a tough guy image).
Randy
Interesting that it’s not a “tough gal” image, huh?
Thanks.
Well there are more male camera holders and directors. One has their hand on buttons and the other on their tool
That probably explains a lot.