Guys, Girls Swap Roles at a Bar

Men ordering Raspberry Kamikazes at a bar as women make passes — and get shut down? This bit of videoed role swapping has gone viral.

The reel holds stereotypes but even they can contain kernels of truth. And anything that moves us out of our taken-for-granted ways sheds light.

Outside the video real women can order any sort of drink they want, but guys had better keep to manly brews or risk scorn. So in that way women have a bit more freedom.

But a freedom that is gained by ranking men over women. If women order manly drinks they aren’t lowering themselves, but when men order girly drinks they are. (Even the terms “manly” and “girly” are charged.)

Meanwhile, both sexes seem to think the other has more power. Probably because we get frustrated when we don’t have it.

Men have the power to assert themselves. They needn’t wait around to be asked. And if they want sex, well, that’s expected. But women must wait to be asked. And they may worry about reputations, leaving them more shamed and less sexually expressed. Repression lowers sex drive, too, lending women the passive power to care less. And whoever cares less has more power. But here, only with a sacrifice of sexual pleasure.

In the video all is topsy-turvy. Girls try to cut in and dance with guys who are dancing with each other — and get shafted. They intrude into private conversations and get spurned. Polite men utter, “Not now please.” Others are less civil.

The message can come across: “You’re not good enough.” It can be tough on a gal.

But it’s tough for guys too. An annoying girl moans, “Those are amazing jeans. They’d look so much better on my bedroom floor.”

A girl spies a guy in an unbuttoned button-down and beckons, “Hey, I like your necklace. Is that the key to your heart? … Don’t button it up! Oh, come on!”

Male objectification may be paired with assault as women grab men’s butts or pressure them to drink shots to lower their resistance.

Guys who want sex must face the repercussions of, “good guys don’t.” The next morning a young man fumbles for his clothes as the woman he has slept with cool-confidently asks if she should call him a cab. Embarrassed, he sneaks away in shame.

As Joanna Schroeder over at The Good Men Project observes, it all “seems so much more rude, more intrusive, more exclusive, more violent, sillier or more intimidating” when the tables are turned.

But with this new slant, maybe we can all gain a bit more understanding and empathy.

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About BroadBlogs

I have a Ph.D. from UCLA in sociology (emphasis: gender, social psych). I currently teach sociology and women's studies at Foothill College in Los Altos Hills, CA. I have also lectured at San Jose State. And I have blogged for Feminispire, Ms. Magazine, The Good Men Project and Daily Kos. Also been picked up by The Alternet.

Posted on December 17, 2012, in feminism, gender, men, psychology, relationships, sex and sexuality, women and tagged , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 80 Comments.

  1. A good point well made as ever BB 🙂

  2. Hmmm…. not sure how to comment about this. I am (obviously) interested in the amusing scenario of exchanged gender roles, and I think this short film does it cleverly and with subtletly. But I can’t recognise anything of myself in the way men are “supposed” to behave in bars. I have always thought that bars are a dreadful place to attempt to meet someone of the opposite sex. Those things which are highly valued in that environment (appearance, ability to dance, willingness to flirt) are things which I consider myself lacking, at least moderately. The things which (IMHO) I do well (wit, polish, conversation) are next to impossible to bring to bear in such a place. I have never in my life used a cheesy come-on chatup line (in the UK the classic is “Get your coat, love, you’ve pulled.”), nor would I be remotely interested in the sort of partner such a chatup line would succeed in attracting.

    I find myself thinking I would behave much like the men in this video: with modesty, inoffensiveness and circumspection!

    I appreciate this film is a caricature, designed to let us see ourselves in the mirror. The problem is, I already know that men behave badly in bars: I want no part of it!

    Vivienne.

    • Thanks for your perspective. It’s definately a characture that doesn’t fit all men/women. But interesting to see the world in reverse when roles/stereotypes are reversed.

      • I forgot to post that I think that bars in this sense are little better than cattle markets. Once you’ve looked at the teeth, patted the flanks and lifted up the tail, you can judge a reasonable amount about an agricultural quadruped. But choosing a partner based on similar superficial and somewhat arbitrary criteria seems like a recipe for continued disappointment to me.

        Vivienne.

  3. The success of this video is highly understandable; apart for the humor it is the sentiment of “déjà vu” that comes up in every scene that does the magic. Through personal experience, it does feel painful to see how heavily males act when the urge for intercourse becomes critical, and cliché’s we hear and see all the time. Alcohol is of course bringing man to produce such practices (well, most of us). Now, to be fair to the rest of our sex subtlety and charm did not completely disappear, the examples in the video being taken from pretty shameful technique, used by pretty limited minds. Flirting has always been a pleasure for both sex and one night stands isn’t simply a man priority, some “I just broke up with my boyfriend, let’s have fun tonight” are pretty common with the female sex.

  4. I really enjoyed this video because guys see how they act towards girls at a club. Sometimes men don’t realize how rude and disrespectful they are towards women. They smack that ass and try to get in a girls pants as much as they can by buying drinks and using cheesy pick up lines. In my point of view, a girl looks ridiculous and trashy doing the same thing a guy does. If a lady would do that at a bar they would be called a slut while the guy seem to be doing a every-other-guy thing. Also, if a lady would be trying to hit on a guy that desperately it would probably make a guy think that the lady does this at a bar every other weekend and might have something like an STD or just weird.

  5. I thought this video was pretty funny because it’s different- it’s something you don’t see when you go to a bar. You don’t see guys dancing with guys and rejecting girls from dancing with them/him. You hardly see guys rejecting girls at the bar! They take what they can get and if that girl is willing to have sex with them that night, they have taken their chosen. Another thing I thought was interesting was that you never see a man with a girly drink they stick to their manly drinks like rim, vodka, and tequila. One the other hand you see women ordering girly drinks all the time. In the ending of the video you see the male getting dressed after spending the night with a girl. When the woman wakes up and sees the male changing she asks if he would like a cab. When he left he didn’t get a hug or a kiss and he just walks home with his shoes in his hand. The last part reminded me of The Jersey Shore.

  6. sandra ruelas

    I think this video was really funny because you get to see women was pricks and men bring used. Guys were drinking girly drinks while women were drinking hardcore liquor. I wonder how society would be if the roles would be like this in this video. I wouldn’t mind acting like a guy for a day….. The ending reminded me of Jersey Shore from MTV where the guy wakes up and the girls asks him if he need a taxi!

  7. From viewing the video seeing the roles swapped makes it seem unreal, like that can’t happen. But if they weren’t swapped it can be pictured and it happens all the time when women go out even with their friends. There is always that jerk, the one who interrupts a conversation and some men refuse to take no for an answer. Also the inappropriate comments and grabbing can be seen. It can be seen in reality and even on movies. The video made it seem that one gender always has the power over the other; in this case it was the man. Society has established a set of rules each gender has to follow well it seems that way from my observation. If men want sex they go after it while the women seems to wait to be asked, men order manly drinks while women order the girly ones. Seeing the women take on the role of the man at the bar makes it more clear how wrong women are treated, and it is silly to see them play such a role.

  8. This video really opened my eyes, and it was almost comical. The video shows a swap of gender behaviors. Men are behaving like women in a bar, and women are behaving like men. I agree with everyone when they said that women have more wiggle room than men. For example women can drink ‘ manly ‘ drinks and nothing will happen. However, when a man drinks a ‘ girly ‘ drink you will get punked on by his friends. Another example is women can dress like men with baggy clothes and a nice hat and it not be a big deal. But when a man dresses like a women, it is taboo. They will definitely get some looks..
    Another thing I found interesting is that they were letting the guys in the club no questions asked . I believe they let girls in the club to attract more guys to come and spend money. I know that some clubs have certain nights where girls get in for free. This is most likely to attract men to their clubs to buy drinks.
    I also agree when others have said that if women act like that they are seen as a slut. However, if men act like that it is ‘ normal ‘. Society has set up certain behaviors and standards that different genders must obey. But where did these standards originate from?
    Did gender roles exist even in the stone age? we have to have learned it from somewhere right? This video opens a lot of questions .

    • Oddly enough, women have more wiggle room because they are lower rank. If women do male activities they generally are seen as demeaning themselves. (Unless they act as if they are sexually free, like men are. Then they are super shamed.) But when males act like females do, they are seen as demeaning themselves.

      I will be writing some posts on how patriarchy got started. You don’t find it everywhere, and there is evidence that the earliest cultures were not patriarchal. And the double standard may have arisen because in these early societies not knowing who daddy was gave women certain amount of power and status. If you don’t know who dad is, property gets passed through women, and clan heads are female, for example.

  9. This video in is a good reminder that women and men are in fact treated differently. There are stigmas around almost every thing we do when we walk into a bar. We are all judging each other based on a set of “laws” that we take to be the truth. For example, girls who ware reveling stuff will be labeled a slut and guy who don’t order the right drink will be label less of a man. I think it is important to see these things for what they are, stereotypes, and are not true 99% of the time. One of the funniest thing about this topic is that men think woman have it easier and women think men have it easier. These ideas all stem back to our societies obsession to create gender identities and if you don’t fit into one or the other you will be outcasted. Perhaps you fit into one but it is the wrong one, again you will be out cased. As a society I think it is so engrained in life that we have to oblige, even if we don’t want to. I think lots of men behave in way that seem manly, or in other words they act in ways that wont get them made fun of. Both genders are facing a stigma that is already preset and doesn’t allow allot of room to wiggle. We put on these masks that don’t feel right to us but makes everyone else “comfortable”. the only we will change this to is stop! We have to stop teaching our young this sexist way of looking at the world. We have to stop judging people for the things they want todo. It would be fun to set up bars that don’t listen to these rules. Our brain being a product of evolution and “brain washing” lead us to believe that men have to act a certain way in order to be a good man one that is worthy of a family, why?! Women also have it hard, as they need to be the ones who need protection, or get stuck in the house wasting away a brilliant mind. (there is nothing wrong with being a home maker as long as it is what you want) I just don’t understand why men and women have to play such different and ridged roles. Don’t judge and let people live the way they want to live.

  10. This video came off very comical but I watched it a second time and the effect was more shocking. Some of the women were objectifying the men and made me realize that female objectification happens so frequently at party scenes. The women who were making fun of the man with the key necklace were in a pair and teaming up against this guy. This happens a lot with the “wingman” situation in which two guys try to talk to one girl in order for one guy to build up the other. Some of the men were very polite in trying to get the woman to leave their table and leave them alone. Although this was done in a polite manner, she took it as a rejection and further insisted she buy them drinks in order to gain approval. I hope this video made some men realize their simple actions can make a huge impact on women’s nights out.

  11. You know, there have been times, since I’m a curious person where I think of just general things. Where things are reversed with how people act or briefly thought of, which is provokes “this is weird or it would be funny, amusing) if thinking about role reversal with genders. But since I’ve been posting and reading your blogs the last few years, it’s made me think more things role reversed and how funny and weird it would be if this or that happened or portrayed. The flipside video of the bar here is an example of them playing up something up and there was a video of roles reversed at the gym too. But I think of it further too. I mean this video is kind of related, but like how “weird or different” it would be imagining it further along socially and other ways where women were the aggressors and in power and men ranked below and sex objects too as a result and shamed. Like my mind went to play out a video of where like highschool girls are shown at a lunch table in thie role reversed realm.

    And they are talking about boys, but talking about the guy’s body parts and he’s a sloppy second if he’s been with a girl before her or theres girls going about the difference guys they’ve “fucked or banged” and bragging about it and especially this guy that was really hot and how they got in his pants. You brought up how men used words that are aggressive like “cut, screw, ram, etc”, but the girls were saying fuck and bang in referenced to them doing to the men and the sexually aggressive terms by the girls. And then the clip shows the boys talking about how all girls want is sex. And one boy is shown sad or upset how a girl used him and these guys’ talking about relationships and such or love making ha. And the video now goes to just women at the club or walking in the city and how a man has a shirt unbuttoned paritally showing his chest and how the women their are cat calling him or ogling him and then they talk about “how easy he is, or what a slut he is for dressing such revealing clothes” And women basically in the video are bragging about sex with women and ogling guys and high fiving each other while men slut shamed, especially if in the clip, the women in the clip talk about how or learn how such guys slept with a bunch of women and he’s a slut and the promiscuous men in the video feel shamed and bad of such “sluttyness” they have done. There’s more to add, but I didn’t want to write too much so I’ll leave this first and then the other things too. It is quite weird when thinking of situations in reverse though

  12. women basically bragging about sex they’ve had with many men, how hot they are and comparing on how good their “game” is to get with such men and their pick up tricks that worked”. I meant that, but was thinking of women so I typed that instead. I think you know what I meant ha.

    If someone did a video, it definitely would look weird probably also funny in the way it makes men look just like in this video

      • And the second part that crossed my mind along with this, but didn’t want to write too much all at once on you. This, I’m not so sure I’d want a video, but just my mind playing with scenarios and how absurd they’d be or funny to go along. To go along in this role reversed realm where women are the leaders and it’s a domination culture. Just like the women bragging about sex and men slut shamed. My mind thought of how weird and funny it would be. Well since men would be the sex objects in this realm like discussed in the paragraph above. Just thinking of this realm, how weird and funny it would be where men were the sex objects and as a result. Women were the main spenders for strip clubs of men stripping and dancing. Women filling up the strip bars, but quiet and really focused and turned on from the male dancers. oh my god, I can’t imagine this any other way than a parody if it was in literal reverse and the male dancers were using strip poles lol and stuff like that.

        And in the same token, dudes in this realm, just like strip clubs do exist for women, but a novelty. In this realm the men are all excited and are hooting and hollering like excited school girls ha, It’s amazing how you don’t realize this stuff or how unsettling it is until you see men doing stuff women do and vice versa. Thinking of it now, I’m smiling because It would be hard for me to not laugh if seeing dudes act that way, straight guys act that way. I can imagine it, because I can see like male comedians like seth rogen, will ferrell being absurd like that lol. Anyway, anyways the women strippers are in cop uniforms or firefighter uniforms, etc. Not only the dress, but it’s unsettling when men and women express and move like the other gender. In this realm, since women are dominant, they move and dance with flips and showing off their strength and athleticism and not seduction unlike the male dancers lol. I can’t keep a straight face as typing this. Because a video parody comes up when visualizing that.

        The women dancers move their bodies and gyrate aggressively as the men giggle and cheer watching. It’s amazing though that you don’t realize the absurdity of hyper masculinity too until women act it out too. Like it usually stands out or more with men acting feminine which it still is. But like probably because of our culture, but what I’ve taken from the brief preview of magic mike and male strippers. Is that even though it’s to be sexy. Even in this moment, guy’s having to be dominant and strong and virile in their expression. It’s true though. Women dancers put on a show to be sexy and sensual. While the male dancers are basically thrust their pelvis in the female volunteers face or in his dance routine or have the bachlorette bent over and thrusting into her. It’s aggressive and like of dominance. I’ve seen to a stag party before with a female stripper. And big difference. For the person chosen that the strippers comes up to, the female dancer may grind her butt as back her butt into the guy, or sit on his lap and put her boobs to his face and stuff like that. Out of curiousity I checked to see what happens for the opposite. And the male dancers for the woman chosen at bacherlotte party basically, does pelvic thrusts at the woman’s face or at her from behind. So you just accept it and don’t see the absurdity of it, unless a woman acts that way too.

      • Hmmm, interesting points. I’ll have to give this some more thought.

  13. There’s a show called lip sync battle, it’s pretty funny. It was on fx and I used to watch some. It’s celebrities putting on a lip sync show or dressing up and acting out the song. Others singers, actors, etc on it. And they had one where Channing Tatum was on it. I guess that show for whatever reason just ended up with gender role reveral. I think because it’s supposeed to be funny and mocking themselves. But his wife was competing against him on the show. I didn’t get her dance for a second because I never seen nor interested in magic mike, but then I got it after seeing how she was dressed. Before I got it, I remember thinking how aggressively she was dressing…like a guy or like a male stripper, which that was the point. She lip syncing a song as dancing like her husband danced as a male stripper in magic mike, thus the aggressively, male style of dance.

    I already knew guy dancers dance in a goofy manner, but it doesn’t dawn on you about the caricature of masculine expression with dance or hypermasculinity or it register until a woman dances like that. You see it obviously with how funny men look being feminine too. But the difference was when men doing something feminine the men look funny. She, herself, didn’t look “funny”, because like said, women have more leeway with expressing in a male fashion than men in a female way. But her dancing like a guy, brought to light how funny it is, that men always have to like constantly express themselves or want to in such always a virile, dominant manner. Even when it’s to do with trying to be sexy or something to let go in.

    • “his wife was competing against him on the show. I didn’t get her dance for a second because I never seen nor interested in magic mike, but then I got it after seeing how she was dressed. Before I got it, I remember thinking how aggressively she was dressing…like a guy or like a male stripper, which that was the point.”

      That’s really interesting. I wish I had seen it.

  14. I think it’s on youtube. It was weird, or funny, because he chose to dress like a chick and he did a beyonce song. The funny thing is I think beyonce surprised the audience and briefly danced for the show and made a cameo much to his surprise and the audience’s of course too. But here;s a clip of channing doing run the world, which beyonce shows up briefly. He also did the frozen song, let it go ha.

    But here’s his wife’s rendition. Which is funny because you see she has the painted on abs, cuz she’s portraying her husband in magic mike and the clothes gives it away. But that’s what I mean with the way male strippers dance vs women and she did a great job. A lot of the men’s stripping it seems like is not even dancing but putting their crotches in the women’s faces and gyrating and pelvic thrusts. It’s funny, but you don’t think of how absurd or the mockery of hyper masculine dancing is until a woman dances in such way and then you see it.

    The clip isn;t on youtube anymore, but found it here. The clip is on the spike tv, which the show is on and the link takes you write to the clip. I saw it live and I remember a little bit more, which makes me wonder if some got edited after. But for the most part, that’s most of what I remember. I think you’ll get a kick out of it. You can see her husband channing is getting a kick out of it. I think his wife is an actress too. But the lady can dance though, it’s funny how much she gets into it and seems to have it down pat.

    http://www.spike.com/video-clips/u3mlbh/lip-sync-battle-jenna-dewan-tatum-performs-ginuwines-pony

  15. And yes she did win it. I think she killed that performance. The shooting the $ out and then stuffing the money (fake $ obviously) in her pants and top was funny too ha

  16. Hmmm, interesting points. I’ll have to give this some more thought.”

    There was a few other things I was going to add to what I said, but went off track a little on the stripping thing and channing tatum and those examples there of the difference. This sounds fictitious like the other stuff, because I couldn’t imagine men being sex objects even if there was alternate universe, another earth or society where women were the leaders and ranked ahead of men. There could many things that could be reversed. But it does show how weird things are, if men are in that position whereas, it’s natural or seen as normal for women to be. Like if going the sex object route which already have and well if women in control but still in a hierarchal culture, perhaps men would be sex objects and the female gaze could be predominant and not the male gaze and the male gaze pushed aside. To go with the other weird thoughts would be where it was men selling sex, as in prostitutes. Would the women be called “janes?” ha.

    The thing is, that isn’t even the most absurd thing. It’s interesting because men walking flamboyantly “like people see a gay man doing” feminine way or cross dressing, that’ seen as girly and feminine. But actually, this would be even weirder in eyes and would be something I think would be more emasculating ironically. And that is, well if men are sex objects in this culture and reversed. Then if there was porn, it would be women more as the consumers or in control of it and men as the main focus and sex objects in it? And women’s bodies irrelevant for women and more less like the “props” to the women viewers? Kind of like how in straight porn, men watching are turned on and focused on the women’s bodies, but the male body has a use as in like the “prop” as the straight men usually imagine or visualize they are “that guy in the video” or that’s the viewers dick fucking the girl or that guy doing whatever to the girl or if she’s giviing a bj, it’s the viewer imagining it’s them and their dick the girl is pleasing or touching nude girls body, etc.Like the more intricacies I think of, the more absurd, and like embarrassing it would be for the male, well thinking as a man in our culture. It’s hard to visualize that as not emasculating. Like it makes me smile thinking of it, because I can;t see how something would be created in the reverse of this that would NOT be a parody. It would be so stupid and silly and awkward too.

    • Thanks! I’ll use this for inspiration.

      • If you’re to use this for a blogpost…use another name instead of Bob if you can. Yes bob isn’t my actual name, but this one specifically it’s fine just referring to a made up blog name or that another poster or something vague.

        Despite me stepping outside and looking from the outside. While some I see the effects of culture and how it can make things in reverse seem silly. I wonder if some is just biology though. Like it’s hard to imagine men naturally expressing or acting in that manner and women to do so. Both have elements of masculine and feminine. The problem I think like you said is men in our culture and many cultures are stifled where they can’t express the feminine side they have. But I think well of course many or most man have the masculine aspect naturally and some feminine, but since more masculine, that’s what is naturally expressed or much more or more often.

        The same with women I think. Feminine and masculine aspects, but more often women having more feminine tendencies, so expressed more than the masculine. It makes me think of hormones. Men have testosterone and estrogen, but much more testosterone. So it;s not that men don’t have what’s associated as the female hormone, but just much more of the male hormone with testosterone. Women have both too, but more estrogen than testosterone. But then I wonder sometimes if guys hold in some more stuff than we think or it’s so ingrained that you have no idea what’s natural and what’s unconsciously learned. This can be with society, social, dating and many aspects, but even sex too. How much do you think your judgments of men as far as seeing them not expressing themselves in a “masculine way” as something you’ve internalized from culture vs you seeing it naturally in relation to something that’s too similar to female behavior thus not masculine? Is even making the distinction that a man is acting “not mascline” something coming from a male ranked culture in the first place?

      • Hey Bob, this is a super busy time for me so sorry if I’m sporadic at responding. I’ll take a look at this more later. And I will use a fake name for you. Let me know if you have any preferences.

        Happy holidays! Merry Christmas! Happy new year!

  17. Hey Bob, this is a super busy time for me so sorry if I’m sporadic at responding. I’ll take a look at this more later. And I will use a fake name for you. Let me know if you have any preferences.

    Happy holidays! Merry Christmas! Happy new year!”

    Thank you and I’m sure it is busy for you. The holiday season is usually a crazy time of year. Any other male name that doesn’t start with B is fine for a fake name. But hope you have a merry christmas and happy new year too.

  18. “I wonder sometimes if guys hold in some more stuff than we think or it’s so ingrained that you have no idea what’s natural and what’s unconsciously learned. This can be with society, social, dating and many aspects, but even sex too. How much do you think your judgments of men as far as seeing them not expressing themselves in a “masculine way” as something you’ve internalized from culture vs you seeing it naturally in relation to something that’s too similar to female behavior thus not masculine? Is even making the distinction that a man is acting “not mascline” something coming from a male ranked culture in the first place?”

    It’s hard to untangle these things because we have culture that affects how we behave, And even affects our biology — like brain wiring (you lose what you don’t use, and you form stronger pathways for what you do use) and hormones (testosterone increases when you are behaving in a dominant way). But also women have less testosterone, But lower amounts of testosterone have a stronger effect on women. And estrogen is also tied to things like aggression.

    Plus, Warrior cultures seem to have overtaken more peaceful “Partnership” cultures. In warrior cultures men are more often the warrior because of size and strength and not bearing babies. And what are warriors taught? Warriors are taught to be stoic, aggressive, dominant, stoic, unemotional. So boys are taught to take on these “Tough” traits. Girls and women are encouraged to be nurturing because they are focus more on child-rearing. But in non-warrior cultures men can be very emotional and nurturing, as you finding forager societies.

    So the answer is that I can’t say for sure.

  19. To play off what I was writing with the role reverse stuff. I brought up sex and dating and I think referenced how it would be weird if porn was role reversed too since it would go accordingly in this different realm. Didn’t you have a blogpost, I think it was you but don’t remember which one. But I thought you had one where it showed famous hollywood scenes, where the roles were reversed. And the video said “is this strange?, why”” or something like that. Most weren’t too difference, except for the last clip which was the clip of the movie Pretty Woman I think and how the male was acting or moving his body did look funny to me.

    • That would be really interesting to see porn reversed!

      I don’t remember gender flipping Hollywood scenes. If you see the link please send it to me. I did write about flipping some scenes from some books — some of which have been made into movies: Gender-Swapping Grammar Lessons
      https://broadblogs.com/2013/09/09/gender-swapping-grammar-lessons-2/

      • Here it is. I thought I saw it posted on your blog, maybe another poster who posted this in relation to one of your posts. But I’ve seen this before and here’s the site that has the video of the role reversed hollywood scenes.

        http://elitedaily.com/women/role-reversal-if-womens-roles-in-hollywood-movies-were-played-by-men-video/

        I think huffingtonpost was a site that had this too, this was just the first one that came up.

        The julia roberts role reverse was the only one that looked strange to me. But it asked, is this weird and why? I think pointing out to how people are not used to men depicted and that’s why it’s strange, rather than it being an inherent thing. Who knows, but my topic and some of your role reverse related posts made me think of this video.

      • Thanks for this. Maybe I’ll be able to use it sometime.

        They are looked weird to me and I don’t think it’s anything innate so much as how we are socialized. The fact that you didn’t find most of it weird shows how it’s socialized. We are all a mix of culture + Personal experience + biological personality you find pattern behavior and individual differences. Most women would probably find this pretty weird.

        Here’s the socialization behind the weirdness that I can think of off the top of my head: we are more homophobic about men than women. We objectify and sexualize women’s bodies more than men’s. We are used to men taking the lead. But you don’t find these patterns in every culture, So they aren’t innate.

      • I think your recent post with gay porn made this come up again. Anway, I realized how interesting it would be in the sense of how ridiculous men would be or look and probably funny. It would be weird for women too but not even close to for men. You explained because of gender ranking like how men can’t be sissy’s but women can be tomboys and clothes and such.Women can wear boyish clothes and be fine or look even powerful but men look like wimps or ridiculous if in women;s clothes or that looks feminine. Well if porn was reversed. Well most views would be women right? Less viewers or a small % men.

        So with that said, it would be geared for women and since men are the sex objects in this female run world. I’m just thinking how funny it would be with men banged aggressively and violently by women, because if it was a literal reverse considering how most porn is in our society, then the reverse of that would be porn that’s ” a wham bam, thank you sir?” Men would be the noisy sex in the porn lol, because that strokes women’s egos right to know they can do it well. It’s already feeling like a parody thinking it it though. Women stoic because it’s not a woman thing to express and be emotional right? Men are weaker thus expected to be more expressive and emotional and show it more in various ways.

        So you have that. I guess there would be a lot of cunnilingus in this female run alternate world though, but like the end being like something similar to the money shot? But demeaning upon the man? Would the man all be very good looking, and adonis like? This wouldn’t be porn or much material for the straight male viewer as since it’s for women, the POV would be mostly on men’s bodies from various angles. And the women could be average in looks and body because they are just props anyway fro the female viewer when fucking the guy. If guy’s were hoping to see blow jobs though, there wouldn’t be much of that. As you know, the women pornstars are busy having the male go down on them and then they are ready fuck, They are too horny and don’t have time to spend doing that on the male porn star and it goes with what female viewers want too. I can’t imaging that, but if going by the same rule of literal reverse of our porn, while little blow jobs would be done, because a lot of straight porn doesn’t spend much time with men going down on women. but what’s not done with bjs there is more focus on the man;s chest. Which in mainstream porn, while not much time with cunnilingus there is attention on women’s breasts in straight porn.Very interesting in how this reversal makes things so strange and funny kind of, if the man is in the woman’s shoes and vice versa.

      • Ahh, I feel a blog post coming up. I could put you as author since this is yours. What do you think?

  20. They are looked weird to me and I don’t think it’s anything innate so much as how we are socialized. The fact that you didn’t find most of it weird shows how it’s socialized. ”

    Well the other parts of the video were weird like the guy playing sharon Stone and he looked “gay” with his hair, and dress. But I thought the weirdest part was the last clip which was of Pretty Woman. The way he was moving his body and stuff would be “seen as feminine behavior”. But I guess culture is so ingrained that you will find such stuff weird, but I wonder if because like you. You are a feminist, and your studies have caused you to be aware and conscious about these things so you can reflect, learn and be aware of these things. Many people just take in what we know, and just react, but don’t reflect, because you’re not going to unless it’s put upon you or something causes you to step back, think and realize about what’s more going on and to do with such differences. Therefore, I wonder, as a result of this. Despite you finding these things weird, has it made you, more open minded and less judgmental of men expressing themselves differently even if they are straight? I assume so, but was wondering.

    Because you can, from out culture being so ingrained still find things weird, but the difference is not make a judgement on men or women as a result. Like many people even women, when seeing men act certain ways don’t just think “that’s weird”, but “he’s so gay”, “what a pussy he is”, “he’s so weird, gross, etc”.Therefore make a judgment on his masculinity and worth as a result. I’m more mindful of things now, but it’s weird, because despite knowing this stuff. I guess men being too sensitive about things or too prissy, doesn’t just make me uncomfortable, but annoys me sometimes depending how extreme it is. Like I’ve been around gay men in person and most you wouldn’t realize they are gay because they are quite masculine, talking and acting. That’s a big stereotype. And some i’ve seen who you can see from their expression and flamboyance they are gay. But I’ve seen some on tv before where their flamboyance was over the top, with make up, high pitch voice and it felt too much and like how it would annoy me.

    • “Despite you finding these things weird, has it made you, more open minded and less judgmental of men expressing themselves differently even if they are straight?”

      Yes I’m more open-minded and less judgmental but I can still feel weird to me. I’ve taken tests on race and gender at Harvard.implicit which tests bias. I’ve worked harder than most people at overcoming my biases but they are still there. Most people score “Moderate preference for whites” whereas I have scored in different places, Anywhere from “Moderate preference for whites” to “Moderate preference for blacks.” And less biased people are able to move around. But the truth is I usually score “Slight preference for whites,” Showing my bias. On gender most people have a strong association of science with men whereas I have a weak Association of science with men. It’s weaker than most, but I still have a bias.

      “I guess men being too sensitive about things or too prissy, doesn’t just make me uncomfortable, but annoys me sometimes depending how extreme it is.”

      I’m guessing that a couple of things are going on there. One is that because we value men and masculinity over women and femininity it can seem like men are demeaning themselves when they take on feminine traits. But that’s really threatening, too, when you have unconsciously internalized male superiority — as most of us in this culture have. Plus we have often witnessed these strong reactions from others and internalize that, too.

      • Yeah it makes me feel like guys are making themselves look like fools when being too flamboyant.

  21. It does seem much more rude when a woman is saying these things to a man. If I were to watch this same scene but with the roles flipped “the correct way”, I would think nothing of the men’s behavior and maybe that the women should lighten up. Especially in the morning after scene, when the woman stays in bed and only half-seriously asks if the man needs a cab, I can see the blatant and gross confidence most men project. Every action stands out more in this video, whereas viewers would’ve asked “what’s the point?” if roles were switched back to reflect our society. Hopefully this video points out to women and men that some of this behavior, performed by either sex, is inappropriate and disrespectful to all human beings. Additionally, I hope this video opens the eyes of men (especially bar frequenters) to the unnecessary repulsiveness of their actions.

  22. Ever wonder what would happen if girls and boys (or women and men, whatever) swapped roles at the bar i.e. it was up to the girl to hit on the guy? No, I guess me neither – our roles are just so ingrained that it doesn’t seem like it would even be worth switching them up and to be fair girls hit on me like every other time I go out anyway.Some dudes did think about it though and made a video about it and it’s actually pretty funny. Ever wanna see a girl get told to go away? Or get slapped in the face for pinching someone’s butt? Or kick a guy out of bed in the morning and make him do the walk of shame? It’s your lucky day then

  23. Ahh, I feel a blog post coming up. I could put you as author since this is yours. What do you think?

    You can post it. But for this one. Just make up another name for me instead of Bob. It doesn’t matter what it is, I’ll know it’s from my posts, but you can use any male name that doesn’t start with B.

  24. “Ahh, I feel a blog post coming up. I could put you as author since this is yours. What do you think?”

    I forgot to add this little snippet to what I wrote also. It’s related to the porn thing, and what I planned to add initially but forgot. Even though I just look at porn sparingly because most is redundant. I think many or most guys watch porn if honest or most likely a decent amount. I’m going from memory thinking back when I was 18-20, which is many moons ago. That was when I did watch a decent amount but that seems pretty common for that age group because back then porn wasn’t available now and there was a novelty factor. It wears off after your realize how lazy and redundant most are, but at that age, etc. Anyway what I also noticed is, well I know most porn is produced and directed by men as well as camera people are most likely and often men.

    I think even some male porn stars might have directing input and what I noticed as that even the porn stars, male porn stars they also are “directors” too. I’ve talked about and you have about the culture inflience behind patriarchy and the agggressive sex, degrading acts, etc. Like a lot of it seems to be a type of dominance, superiority to it from the male to female. But what I also noticed was that the action as in what’s done isn’t the only thing showing this, but how I noticed or thinking about it, how the male stars are always in control and “directing” the sex or not what’s to come, but how it’s done. Like what is done is irrelevant, because it’s the male that’s always in control. For example, you can have a porn video where sure, the woman or women are on top in a scene or maybe in a lot of the film. But it’s like the women are “serving” the man or men if that makes sense.

    Not just the sounds and expressions, but also body language and acted out. Like a man or men would be on a couch and almost like “come on girls hop on my lap”. They don’t say that, but you see the woman get on and ride. But like they don’t have agency themselves. I get the vibe like they are pleasing the men, instead of fucking the guys. Like the women aren’t like from their body language “ok I’m pushing you back or riding now, because I want to fuck your brains out toward the men”. But more like “ok I’m coming over because you want me to and I’m putting on this act. It feels like women riding isn’t taken seriouly or like they have autonomy to it. Like the parts where the woman are on top is just “filler” to the real fucking, like you can even see it in the guy’s expressions like “ok we’re done with this, not I’m going to bend you over and plow you” Because of women not directing and being in control, her being on top still feels submissve if that makes sense.There is definitely a power dynamic I see. And it makes sense considering our culture, most porn most likely isn’t going to be directed by women, or especially the female porn star directing or like being aggressive.

    In the alternate realm with the porn to add. The women would be directing and the man on top parts would be the men there to please her and not just that. But the men doing so is just filler until the woman takes control and goes hard on him. Does this make sense though? Like lack of agency from women and directing in mainstream porn?

  25. Although this video possesses many humorous elements as well as a generally lighthearted undertone, there is a lot of validity in this portrayal of a male and female role reversal. I think the fact that the video is in many ways comedic is a very useful tool in getting across such serious underlying themes to the general public, as making educational content entertaining tends to be effective in spreading a meaningful message. By watching these male and female ‘bar behavior’ stereotypes play out, I found the extent to which I noticed general gender stereotypes regarding boy language, speech and behavior, as I feel seeing women take on traditionally male characteristics (and vice versa) really accentuated and perpetuated the stereotypical traits, making them more identifiable then they would have been if a the men were acting [stereotypically] masculine and the women were acting [stereotypically] feminine. I think this may have to do with the fact that this inverse of the norm through stark role reversal makes these stereotypes look so silly, ultimately proving to be a reminder of how silly gender stereotypes like these are in general.

  26. I wrote too long again so I’m going to get to the point. I can’t help it, I always have the intent to not write that much but then I just have so many thoughts and it just accumulates. Anyway. I wanted to add how despite culture being flipped and playing with the notion that culture has the effect on men and women and behavior. I believe biology does, but you think men and women are more alike than people it seems and culture exaggerates the small differences. But despite that, I still wrote it down to add to the notion of this role reversal and brought up how it would be if women were ranked above, if going the same way like it is for men in the world here or most societies. It’s really hard for me to imagine though which may show how I’ve internalized our culture, but wondering if it’s biology too. Like porn where women were stoic and on the quiet side and men loud. It’s not so much of men being noisier, but women being quiet that is hard to fathom. Not because women can’t, as I had a gf who wasn’t silent, but she was pretty quiet, but that was kind of her personality which was quiet and not that expressive. She showed more through her face and other expressions than sound.

    So I’m sure it’s a myth or stereotype that all or most women are loud, as I’m sure there are quite a bit of individual umm, volume between women. Some loud or on the louder side and others on the quieter side and everything in between. And it doesn’t mean the louder one’s had better sex or were enjoying more than the quieter ones and vice versa. But that and the sex object thing with men being it and not women. It would mean that women have the visual capacity toward men’s bodies that men have for women. Culture could have repressed that, though there has never been a time that has shown that women can be that visual to men. Yes there are studies of porn and such, but that’s of women toward WOMEN’S bodies and lesbian, not men’s. And the chest focus thing, I added that, because if one were to reverse what is in straight male centric porn, it’s the attention to women’s breasts. There is less cunnilingus , but more attention with women’s boobs ironically as far as sex activity goes. You can still post it, which would be interesting. But I just wanted to add that. I can just see guys or well some guys especially you know who, scoffing and being like yeah women can’t behave that way or that’s in possible even if in a world where women lived in a domination culture, but women were the one’s ranked above or who ruled.

    • What do you think of this edit?

      If Men and Women Swapped Roles in Porn

      By “Peter”

      I wonder how people would respond if men and women swapped roles in porn?

      Would it seem funny? Or even ridiculous?

      Especially changing out men’s role. Because of gender ranking — we value men and masculinity over women and femininity — women can be tomboys but men can’t be sissies!

      That’s why women can wear masculine clothing without anyone thinking much about it. They may even look more powerful. But men can’t wear women’s clothing without looking like wimps or ridiculous.

      But if porn were reversed men would be the sex objects in a female-run world.

      Men would be the noisy sex, moaning at his partner’s sexual finesse, and stroking the female ego. “Yeah, she knows how to do it right!”

      Women would be quiet and stoic, because it’s not a woman-thing to express emotion.

      Most porn would be produced and directed by women, as well as the camera operators. And some female porn stars would have directing input.

      The men would be super-hot, and super-excited to have sex with less attractive women.

      Female stars on camera would be in control and “directing” the sex, or what’s to come and how it’s done. It’s now the woman who’s in charge.

      Suddenly men are banged aggressively and violently by women. “Wham bam, thank you man?”

      In fact, females dominating males would be a major theme. Women would humiliate men, calling them whores, and force them into degrading acts.

      It would all feel like men are “serving” women.

      Like a woman might be on a couch coaxing (non-verbally) “Come on guys, let’s do it.” Kind of like the men don’t have any agency. You’d get the vibe that they are pleasing the women, instead of f*ing them.

      When the man’s on top it’s just filler until the woman takes control and goes hard on him. Her attitude would be, “I’m coming down on you because I want to f*#k your brains out.”

      It’s actually really hard for me to imagine all of this, though, which may show how I’ve internalized our culture.

      What do you think?

      —–
      “Peter” wrote this in a blog comment that I edited into a blog post.

  27. You can delete the long post above where it says posted at 1:29 am and read the one right above this post which I summarized and made shorter.

  28. Sorry I wrote too much again. This post and the next one are simplified, summarized edits of the long posts I just did above. I see you posted the porn aspect of the whole role reversal thing and that is good as I think it really hits people or comes across when something is put to light that might not be thought of. For whatever reason, the sex and porn aspect sticks out the most and you said it was interesting too. The sex objects and social aspect would shot it too if women were the one’s giving high fives for the guys they’ve banged or bedded many men, while men were slut shamed and were shown complaining about being used for sex and all women do is think with their vaginas. Which would be funny and show how we accept men talking that way, but when women do and men are put in the female role or women in an aggressive way, it looks funny and absurd.

    I was bringing up though how I didn’t know how plausible it would be even in a reversed realm with female porn stars being stoic and quiet like men until their orgasm(s). The reason I saw is because it’s one thing if a woman is not enjoying sex then I’m sure that’s quiet possible to be quiet, but these women since in charge would know what they want, and how they want it and actually might leave the guys high and dry if the dudes don’t or can’t get off. But anyway, so I don’t know how much validity for that specifically plays in with culture, because it feels like (I’m just a guy) to me, that perhaps anatomy plays a role too? Not with women being loud because I think there’s many layers where women not only feel they have to look sexy, but sound sexy and that whole thing so add more to the sounds and exaggerate their sounds.

    But I can’t imagine a porn star women being quiet like a porn star man or like that. They maybe quieter than women generally here (thought I’ve known some women that were pretty quiet). But I can’t imagine that quiet, because of the fact of being penetrated, that seems like that would bring out moans from a woman especially if being pounded. I don’t mean like porn star rough, but even if it’s her riding. Guy’s may hold some stuff in, but I don;t know if it’;s like a woman would have to hold in, if having sex in this role reversed realm. Then again I’ve heard, the vagina itself doesn’t have a ton of nerve endings, but the clitoris that does which is why women don’t orgasm as much from penetration but going down on her and foreplay and such more likely brings and orgasm or warms her up or closer to that spot. Like I said, it’s speculating as I don’t have a vagina, but I guess if women comment on that post, I guess I’ll find out if they think that’s possible. If they don’t answer to that then I guess they do think it’s possible if women took the male, less expressive, dominant, stoic role and men took the nurturing, expressive role in this role reversed society. You can add in your take too if you want.

    • How about this?

      If Men and Women Swapped Roles in Porn

      By “Peter”

      I wonder how people would respond if men and women swapped roles in porn?

      Would it seem funny? Or even ridiculous?

      Especially changing out men’s role. Because of gender ranking — we value men and masculinity over women and femininity — women can be tomboys but men can’t be sissies!

      That’s why women can wear masculine clothing without anyone thinking much about it. They may even look more powerful. But men can’t wear women’s clothing without looking like wimps or ridiculous.

      But if porn were reversed men would be the sex objects in a female-run world.

      Men would be the noisy sex, moaning at his partner’s sexual finesse, and stroking the female ego. “Yeah, she knows how to do it right!”

      Women would be quiet and stoic, because it’s not a woman-thing to express emotion.

      Most porn would be produced and directed by women, as well as the camera operators. And some female porn stars would have directing input.

      The men would be super-hot, and super-excited to have sex with less attractive women.

      Female stars on camera would be in control and “directing” the sex, or what’s to come and how it’s done. It’s now the woman who’s in charge.

      Suddenly men are banged aggressively and violently by women. “Wham bam, thank you man?”

      In fact, females dominating males would be a major theme, and not just a niche fetish of the milder dominatrix genre. No, this would be more aggressive and brutal with women pounding men, humiliating them, calling them whores, and forcing them to do disgusting and degrading acts.

      It would all feel like men are “serving” women.

      Like a woman might be on a couch coaxing (non-verbally) “Come on guys, let’s do it.” Kind of like the men don’t have any agency. You’d get the vibe that they are pleasing the women, instead of f*ing them.

      When the man’s on top it’s just filler until the woman takes control and goes hard on him. Her attitude would be, “I’m coming down on you because I want to f*#k your brains out.”

      And of course, women — who think with their vaginas instead of their brains — would be high-fived for nailing as many men as possible while guys to succumb would complain about being used for sex, and women would put them down as sluts and hoes.

      It’s actually really hard for me to imagine all of this, though, which may show how I’ve internalized our culture.

      What do you think?

      “Peter” wrote this in a blog comment that I edited into a blog post.

  29. I didn’t know if you wanted to add how the POV was on men or you basically implied that with men being hot and the women being average looking. You probably felt viewers understood that once there was a divide with appearance of the men and women. I hope viewers got my point or it’s clarified because I wonder if viewers seeing this

    “In fact, females dominating males would be a major theme. Women would humiliate men, calling them whores, and force them into degrading acts.”

    This is good, but I wonder if some will say “there already is this porn” which is true. There is female dominance porn, but it’s a niche. I think this sentence might be brought up if one was to argue about femdom porn, dominatrix stuff related as I think for whatever reason female dominance is often about humiliation on the male. This also interesting enough I think has a reflection of our patriarchal society because even when a woman is dominating in porn, there is or seems to be a “female” way of dominating vs male way. Even if a woman is on top or such for that type of porn, I’d say the dominance is more often “mental” like with commands where it humiliates the guy or her serves her and mind game stuff.

    That might be true for male dominance, but like with most porn that really is dominance too. It’s brutal and aggressive and if their is humiliation it’s in an aggressive, brutal way. I hate mainstream porn for that reason, but I know what some of the stuff is because I’ve seen an ad show up for some porn company when not looking for it in my younger days. Like dudes throating fucking a woman pretty much and the facials, like that’s humilation, but it’s like in an aggressive way. A femalle dominance is like sitting on a guys face or havign him, bow down and serve her. But as you see from the description, it’s “soft” or “softer” and a lot mental. Male dominance is like “bodice ripper”, You don’t see that commonly if it’s female dominance. So I’m trying to allude with the humiliation that in this reversed realm, the dominiation and “humiliation” and degradation is in a ravaging, brutally aggressive way similar to men are with women, and whatever role reversed name would be of “bodice ripper” but toward the man from the woman ha.

  30. These shorter posts above, I posted for you to check. So you can delete the long one’s above them as I got carried away again. sorry. My damn brain did it again. So the two long ones I posted above, you can delete, but these one’s right here I think hopefully are fairly short or short enough for you as I summarized the long posts which is why they can be deleted.

    • I’m looking at your suggestions and rewriting. But I was struck by this: But I can’t imagine that quiet, because of the fact of being penetrated, that seems like that would bring out moans from a woman especially if being pounded.

      Why would she be moaning? Because she enjoys it? Most women don’t feel much pleasure in intercourse (or much of anything – rub your finger with your fist – yes you notice something but it’s not pleasurable). Women are much more likely to orgasm from outer-course than intercourse.

      • I just read what you wrote such as “But I can’t imagine that quiet, because of the fact of being penetrated, that seems like that would bring out moans from a woman especially if being pounded.”

        I thought you wrote that lol. I’m a goofball, and then after typing I realized you copied that post from me which I thought looked like something I wrote and you answered my question or thought with the next short paragraph below. ha. So that’s why I wanted to run it by you, since you’re a woman and would obviously have more knowledge about that. So is it plausible in this realm of women being stoic and quiet like male porn stars? If it is then keep it, if not so much, then just put in how women are pretty quiet or quieter than men and men are loud and definitely louder than the women in porn. But at least my last post showed how I feel men can have pleasure and not express it though because of how they grow accustom to things that way and socially and masturbation. So if we reverse it, maybe it’s plausible since women were be trained to be less expressive socially and men socially trained as more socially expressive so that can make its way to other areas, and even with sex and porn.

        And if women are ranked above men and men sex objects then perhaps women would be the one’s who masturbate more than men or as girls therefore, learned to be quiet in pleasing themselves when growing up as they do it more than the boy sexually repressed and slut shamed boys right? So that makes its way with sex in this realm and even porn. I know this is all far fetched ha, but I don’t want something seeming impossible even if in a society that’s reversed and with perfect ingredients for women to be that way and men lower ranked. Like I’ll let you decide since you said women don’t usually feel as much intercourse but more often outer-course so if it’s plausible female porn stars can be enjoying themselves but still quiet and stoic then keep that in. If not so, then you can edit that or write how women are quieter and men noisy, thus implying women may not be quiet like male porn stars, but quiet than men or men in the porn definitely louder. Maybe put this link for reference or write how your posts and this one specifically made me think of things in reverse in different ways and which lead me to go this route with porn because of how bizarre and funny it can be thinking, interesting enough, specifically between men and women role reversed in this realm (porn).

      • Many women complain that porn leaves their partners expecting them to be loud when they don’t want to be. Others may find it difficult not to. But in a college library during finals I once heard noises that sounded like masturbation in the next stall (relieving tension?), but no vocalizing. You may learn not to — a girl not wanting the parents to hear. So yeah, women can be quiet.

  31. Yeah I think I wrote too much. I wrote the first one, because I misread you the first time like I said. But yes that recent one you wrote is good and I’ll leave it up to you as far as the plausibility as far as what I brought up with female porn stars being quiet in this alternate realm. But I think what you have there is good. I pointed out in other the other stuff too as far as other interesting things with how women would be or could be more homophobic toward lesbian compared to men to gay men. Some things are obvious, as far as if people are asked ‘what would you think of you saw a woman in masculine or more gender neutral clothes, assuming she’s not with short hair or “butch” looking. I think many would not see it as that weird whereas, a man in a dress would be weird which I get. But I think that sex noise aspect would be an interesting social experiment as far as questions, because it’s not something thought about or obvious like the role reverse dress difference as explained. But it’s interesting thinking of what people’s answers are, which would show what people think about men and women in other areas not obvious.

    I personally think a certain number if asked “what would you think if you heard people having sex in the room next to yours in a dorm, or apartment, etc, but it was the man who was loud or louder or moans over the womans?” I feel a certain number, idk how many women and men, maybe more women that would not think anything of it and simply “a couple having sex and enjoying themselves” and think nothing or notice or anything of the male or anymore thought into it. But i also think and women just as much as men or another portion, decent portion would probably atleast reaise an eyebrow as in “this is funny, or like a surprise”. And then another good portion men and even women not just be surprised but either think or wonder if the male is or make judgement that he is “less mascline” ‘girly’, “gayish, not literally since he’s with a woman but you know” “he’s submissve which there can be judgment on him as I’ve seen guy’s comments before (probably macho insecure guys) who get upset or feels it’s a man’s duty “to dick down a woman or fuck her good and not the opposite otherwise he’s a “wimp”. Women can internalize that too though. Interesting because nobody makes a judgment on women’s “submissivenss “when being loud and such. It might be because like you said with ranking, men are perceived as tougher than women and perhaps to some extent it’s seen as normal or goes with being a woman as far as women being inherently passive and submissive.

    • But porn does leave a lot of guys thinking women are loud so I don’t know. Haven’t had time to read your other comments yet.

      • That’s fine you don’t have to, as a lot of it was from me misreading your first post. So you get the gist from these one’s I just posted. What do you think about women being homophobic, kind of interesting. Not that women can’t be, but women were like men as far as how they aren’t ‘affectionate to each other” or that’s not a woman thing or that’s gay. You know how it is for most straight guys, I’m not homophobic but yeah there are things where it’s weird to me, but which straight women can do and it’s normal and not lesbian. I wonder if straight women would be like that if women were ranked above men and socialized to be the tough gender and such.

        Actually you kind of see brief instances which are funny in the clip to your post about guys and girls swapped roles at the bar. Where the women say “what is this a taco fest?” when it’s filled with mostly women. That’s said for guys as far as sausage party because guys are so geared about socializing with women, meeting, dating, having sex with women. That it’s not too fun being at a plus if mostly with dudes and the other part being not homophobic but like not caring to be around with so many guys. So I like what you got, I wonder what general time frame you have whether summer, fall this year to do this post?

      • Tell you what, I want to take some time to think about Women and homophobia. Things that come quickly to mind are that gays are more threatening than lesbians because gay men are “Acting like women” which means they are more demeaning themselves in a society that gender ranks men over women. And women are the sex objects in our culture, and lesbian porn is basically sex object porn, Leaving us as a society and more comfortable with it.

        Believe it or not, I’ve got the blog entirely scheduled until 4 July. If something comes up that needs to be done “Right now” I’ll do it but this post on switching gender could wait. So I will probably post this one in the fall since I take summer off from teaching and it’s one I’d like my students to take a look at.

  32. Believe it or not, I’ve got the blog entirely scheduled until 4 July. If something comes up that needs to be done “Right now” I’ll do it but this post on switching gender could wait. So I will probably post this one in the fall since I take summer off from teaching and it’s one I’d like my students to take a look at.”

    You mean you have posts booked or scheduled or planned until july 4th? So that’s when there would be an opening or the time you’d post this porn reversal one? And the swtiching gender, homophobia related one, a different post, would be in the fall? I’m just checking I’m getting your post and not confusing anything. So these are two different posts, though related in gender reversal that you’d post. The porn related one being after july 4th and the switching gender in the fall when classes start again. For the fall, swtiching gender one, will it also include the scenarios if women were in charge in the social relations and men not too? To show how it looks different when things are reversed. Sorry I know you are busy and have posted some from me, but you told me to remind you or other ones. So I was curious about that gangland post awhile ago you said you liked and if you plan to post it or that may be in the fall too?

    • I hadn’t thought of the homophobia one as gender switching. I’ll write it up and if you have some other idea let me know what it is. I might do that one this summer.

      And yes, please keep reminding me if I don’t get to these things. I’ll try to write on men, women and homophobia and gangland next week. I’m make myself a note.

      If it’s important to you to do it sooner I could try to do this quarter. Otherwise I will plan on the fall.

      I was also thinking that you actually could submit anything you wrote to The Good Men Project (cross listed with my blog). I don’t think they would accept “Bob” as an author but you could probably try doing your initials and last name. That would still keep your anonymity. If you want to do that sometime let me know what to change the name to. You can submit here: https://goodmenproject.submittable.com/submit

      • I came across something that I thought was amusing or women’s criticism about straight porn. We already know about most of the stuff women don’t like with the fake acting, the brutal fucking, how women are treated, the robotic aspect, the woman’s pleasure being low priority, etc. This is not from me, but among many comments from women, what one woman’s criticism of straight porn and what it’s like for straight women watching this porn and spinning it around so men get it. She puts a satirical spin on it and yeah, I think men would not like it and get the point if porn was like she said. Here it is in quotes.

        “Someone should make a parody ‘for men’ porn that directly reflects ‘for women’ porn and see what reaction they get. The guy should be really good looking, the girl should be average looking (and she should not have done any body grooming). All the focus should be on the guy and instead of looking like he’s enjoying himself he should be constantly looking at the camera and awkwardly adjusting his position so it gets the best view of his junk. The camera should always be focussing on the guys cock and balls, and the woman’s disembodied hands should occasionally come into shot and rearrange the guys genitals in frankly weird ways while the guy pretends this is the height of sexual pleasure.

        The girl should give him the roughest most robotic hand job while her head and body never enter the shot. The girl should be more or less silent and only partially in shot at all times, you never see her bum, boobs, face… Meanwhile the guy should be making ridiculous fake noises and asking the girl to do things to him in the most degrading way possible. He should deliberately speak with his voice an octave lower than it would be naturally. During sex every camera angle should show as little of the woman as possible; missionary filmed from behind so that you can see the guy’s back and butt, but only the girl’s shins and feet, doggy style filmed up high so you can see the guys upper body but only a glimpse of the top of the girls head and shoulder blades at the bottom of the screen. It should finish with a close up of the guys face, tongue out, making weird nasal moans as if he’s still getting off, while the girl finishes herself off off camera.

        I bet the guys will love it!”

      • Thanks. I’ll try to add some of these points to the mix.

  33. Yes, It would be interesting for you to share that gender switch porn posts, as I think that’s what you were referring to with the gender switch post specifically. It might especially be interesting seeing how your students react or think of it considering, the views held between men and women and boys and girls, especially sexually is more differentiated it seems in the youthful years. As that’s when boys are growing into manhood and out to prove how cool they are and macho and the girls they are ‘banging” or how big their dicks are, how many girls they bang and how “they beat pusssy up” This seems especially expressed more during the highschool and college years with guys, especially fraternities and jocks. Where it’s like lopsided as far as men and women with who is dominant and in charge socially (men) and as far as sex goes with guys out to act who’s more aggressive or dominant with fucking girls and this macho stuff.

    Though I’m going to assume your women’s studies classes are probably as far as majority goes, mostly female right? But this can relate to the girls too though as they can be the one’s either talked about in such way by such guys or treated such way or know how guys can talk and such. And them seeing the spin on when things are reversed in regards to sex socially and if things were flipped upside down like if porn was reversed in the female lead world instead. Sometimes you don’t realize or things don’t come to a realization until you see it in a different spin.

    • Yeah I think I should do it when classes in session. And I making them comment on my blog.

      About 1/4 of my students are men, which is pretty high for women’s studies courses. I hear that most women studies classes are around 6% men. The number started going higher when I started my blog, interestingly. Maybe that got them over some of their stereotypes and they thought the course might be interesting based on the posts?

      • That is pretty high and definitely more men than I expected. I think that’s good and I’m sure you like seeing more men in your women’s classes. Because I think if equality is to grow and go forward, it’s important for men to be involved too. You want men to feel included in this and definitely not alienated. I think your posts probably are due to this increase, because I’ll admit. I found your blog just from googling questions out of curiosity. It had nothing to do with feminism, but I’ve always been curious about relations between men and women, and naturally one day, a question I googled or something, brought up one of your posts and the link to it right on the top of the page for google,which I clicked. Men seeing these posts I think helps them see feminism in a different light like I have.

        I’m still sometimes weary of somethings, but have opened my eyes and learned a lot and my perception and wouldn’t have without reading posts from this blogsite. A lot of guys maybe from what’s spread or what not, but feel feminists are blaming men for all the wrongs or most of the wrongs of society whether war, violence, rapes, and feel they are blamed when patriarchy is brought up. And feminists think the world would be better if run by women instead of men, because men are morally worse than women and inherently more violent and more aggressive. That thought does float around, because whenever imaginary curiosity conversations come up with a world with just women, some people feel the society might be backwards with technology, but much more peaceful because of women as more nurturing than men,

      • Yeah. I think the fact that I talk about sex and relationships gets me an audience of people who wouldn’t normally listen to someone with my perspective on politics. And since I’m talking about how women and men can be together it’s clearly not the man-hating that many people expect from feminists. And that stereotype isn’t accurate but it is used to turn people off of feminism.

  34. FHill_Spr'17JR

    This video reminds of gender ranking. For women it is okay for them to cross the gender role boundaries from female to male. The women can do this because they are ranked lower. Going up in rank is seen as a positive thing. For men on the other hand, it is not too easy for them to switch gender roles. That is because when men cross the gender role boundaries to female, they are going down in rank. This video also reminds of the term sissies and tomboys. In the video we see a lot of the women that could be categorized as tomboy because they are exhibiting traits that are closely associated to male. The same goes for the men who could be categorized as sissies because they are exhibiting traits that are closely associated to female.

  35. I think the idea of the video is very interesting. The video gives a different prospective, of the hook up culture our generation is having. I think it is very disturbing that girls need to go in groups, and be very cautious on who they are talking with, or who they dance, or drink with. In some way the video is very funny in our eyes because it shows some how a parallel universe, but its massage is very deep. Our gender rules need to be redefined.

  36. Yeah. I think the fact that I talk about sex and relationships gets me an audience of people who wouldn’t normally listen to someone with my perspective on politics. And since I’m talking about how women and men can be together it’s clearly not the man-hating that many people expect from feminists. And that stereotype isn’t accurate but it is used to turn people off of feminism.”

    I have to give props for the confidence of these men for showing up in class that not many men would be in or expect to be in and not caring whatever questioning they could face from others from the outside from being in a women’s studies class (feminist class). I say this because even if a man or men believe in equality and all that, it’s still hard for a man to be in such a class. You obviously know this as you talk about the social pressure of masculinity and proving. A man can realize this masculine act is BS but still be hesitant to not want to be in a women’s studies class just because of feeling embarrassed or being teased or getting flack from other of his friends if they knew or people in general. It’s kind of like a guy joining Ballet. Ironically for a sport and activity seen as “feminine”, the men in ballet I’ve heard are actually great athletes and very strong. It takes actually in some ways as much or more athleticism from men in ballet and strength than say baseball which is seen as fairly masculine sport..

    How do new male students on the first day of your class act? Do they look around or have a look on their face as in like wondering how the female students in the class will take them or if there will be male criticism or something? I could see that or wondering what the female students are thinking deep inside, is their animosity, resentment, never brought up? Kind of like how a white student could feel if in an African American studies class and wondering if the professor talking about in-depth racial issues, and slavery if deep inside the black students have some resentment to white people or the white student in the class.

    • I will have to say that white guys are a minority of the men who show up, and the class does talk about racial inequality too. Some of the men of color told me it was one of their favorite classes they’ve ever taken.

      But some of the white guys have told me the same thing, too, and one took all my women’s studies classes. An Asian man changed his major to women’s studies — and he’s straight, he contacted me later and sent me a picture of his son. He later changed his major to sociology, which is more broad (and it’s my major too).

      Early on it was not unusual for the guys to sit at the back (not always) and then that stopped — guys pretty much just blend in and act like everyone else. Although I did have a class last spring where the guys sat at the back, And I mentioned how that hadn’t happened in a long time. After I mentioned that some of the guys moved up.

      Guys are more feminist today than they used to be. Millennials!

      Overall, they act like everyone else does. And it’s not unusual that they make more comments than the women do — but that’s common in most classrooms.

  37. Thanks. I’ll try to add some of these points to the mix.”

    Well it was just to point out, not necessarily to add to anything, but if you want to that’s fine. It’s funny though because even though I’m aware of how bad more straight porn is. Like, because it’s normalized with how things are in porn for women. You may acknowlegde it being bad, but it doesn’t sink in until the script is reversed and it effects men. Like after reading her comment, as a man myself, like I got it. I was thinking, yeah that porn would be horrible to see as a man ha. And then you realize, like wow, that sucks for straight women who are more visual on average and are that bell curve. Who might want to see something good, but there isn’t much and the porn is really terrible and POV of it all. You don’t think that or the otherside, because your mind is stuck on the nice visual it is seeing a hot naked chick, so don’t consider some straight women actually would like seeing a guy’s body and good sex and his face and not genitals simply going in and out and to actually hear the guy making sound and less exaggerated fake moans from the women. There’s been a lot of complaints not just of the jackhammering but the sounds from women being fake, but also how stoic and quit or unresponsive the guys are. That doesn’t register until you see how it would be unless reversed and yeah that would be horrible with the POV on the guy’s body and all that she said coming my straight male POV.

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