Pleasure + Wound vs Pleasure + Love
I’m in a relationship with a long-term partner who wants a threesome — he says it would just be fun and wouldn’t mean anything. I laughed it off and said I wasn’t into it because I’m a monogamous person.
But we went camping and all I heard about were the hot bodies around us — and joking about getting into someone else’s pants while I’m at work, just to see if fantasy lives up to reality.
I don’t know what to do. Honestly, I’ve never found anyone else attractive. Plus, the true love bit [insert violin music here].
I’m getting worried that he doesn’t love me anymore and wants something better. This worries me because although I may not be the one for him he is definitely the one for me… Its like my soul loves him as much as my heart does.
I don’t know what to do.
People occasionally write to me for help on some relationship issue that creates pain. Like this (edited) comment from “Drew.”
I don’t really know these people or their partners, but Bell Hooks wrote something called, “Romance: Sweet Love,” that might help.
She asks a number of questions, like these:
1) Can you choose love? Or must love control you?
2) Think about the difference between relationships marked by:
- Pleasure + Wound
- Pleasure + Love
When we fall in love it can feel like we have no choice. We’ve fallen. We can’t help that.
But really, we do have choices.
We needn’t stay stuck in relationships that wound us. We needn’t stay inside of mis-matched matches.
And ask yourself these questions:
Does your lover cause you pain? Hold you to a double standard? Love you?
I love me
These may be difficult questions to answer.
If your partner doesn’t love you, don’t take it personally. Some people simply aren’t in a place where they are capable of love.
And pain — whether physical or emotional — is trying to tell you that something is wrong, that something needs to change.
Maybe you haven’t met someone who is a good match and healthy for you yet, and maybe it’s hard to imagine that happening. But if you are with someone who is causing you pain, it makes a lot of sense to see what else is out there, meet other people, and explore.
While you’re out exploring, it helps to love yourself. And that might take inner work.
But remember, it is possible to find eroticism plus love, and minus the wound.
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Posted on April 13, 2015, in psychology, relationships, sex and sexuality and tagged bell hooks, painful relationships, psychology, relationships, Romance: Sweet Love, sex, sexuality. Bookmark the permalink. 49 Comments.
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Unless you are both non monogamous and agree upon an open relationship, it is very unfair to ask your partner for a threesome. Just asking that question can hurt someone very deeply emotionally. I’m sure they would start to wonder, ‘Am I not good enough?’ along with several other wounding thoughts. I know I would be hurt that my partner would want to give away something private that we share together that makes me feel closer to them. This relationship definitely sounds like a mis match and will end in heartbreak especially since it is long term and they already invested time and feelings into it. I don’t think there is anything wrong with having a threesome if you are single, but while you are in a relationship to tell your partner you want someone else sexually is just so disrespectful to me. Sometimes you can’t help who you love, but also sometimes we fall in love with the idea of who we want them to be and not who they actually are.
Yep!
wow, this article really speaks to me especially because I have been in relationships where the male(my partner at the time) would ask if I would be up for threesomes. Being that I am a very monogamous individual, I was never up for those things.
then again, it always seemed like the longer we were into the relationship, these past boyfriends would come to asking themselves, ‘why did I ever even want a threesome with my girl?’ I believe as the relationship grew, these guys started to realize that all they wanted was to be monogamous and only have myself as their sexual partner.
unfortunately, like this above case… there are many women who experience relationships with men where the man is just not capable of love and I would agree that this is the best opportunity for the woman in the relationship to gather the courage and leave because it is really important to know your own worth and find the one person/people who are most compatible with their own desires and goals in a relationship and in life in general.
Thanks for sharing about your experience with this.
I can understand why men or women for that matter would want a threesome. However, it seems from the statistics I have seen that it is mainly men who want threesomes with two girls. If this is the case then we really should be asking why men find a threesome appealing.
As is stated here, men are far less excited about sharing a woman with another man. That smacks of patriarchal dominance and hypocrisy to me. Do men want threesomes because they think it will bring them more pleasure? Have they seen it in porn and fantasize about it? The comments here seem to be suggesting the guys want it for themselves without thinking about their partners and how they might feel. I know that threesomes can ruin good relationships and cause all kinds of problems for both partners. Is one partner not enough? If not, then what kind of message are we giving to our partner when we tell them we want to sleep with someone else?
I think the best way to value your partner is to treat them as you would want them to treat you, while taking into account what you really know about your partner rather than pushing your own agenda. (If you don’t want a threesome with another guy, then don’t suggest one with two girls). Of course communication is a vital part of a good relationship and I think talking things over in a safe and comfortable environment where neither of you feel pressurized or unheard goes a long way to helping relationships really grow and develop.
Thanks for your thoughtful response. 🙂
Everyone has fantasies. If my partner asks me to have threesome, I would placed her in my position by asking her how she would feel if I asked her to have a threesome with another girl. It’s always good to let the other person see it from their perspective. It’s a good thing that they confronted them with the idea rather then go out there and do it behind their back. The fact they were open and honest with them, simply means they have faith in their relationship to be open and honest with them! I think, they should be thankful for that.
“It’s always good to let the other person see it from their perspective.”
I agree.
I’m pretty sure the guy in the episode doesn’t respect his girlfriend. She knows that, but she believes the guy is the one for her. Although she tries to find true love from her boyfriend, the concept of true love completely depends on how and why you love a person. In other words, if she defines true love as a comfort and respect, she’ll realize that the love with her boyfriend might not be true love that she wants.
What do we expect from love? You love somebody to feel pleasure, not to feel weak and get hurt. Of course, the pain from love often strengthen the mutual attachment between a couple. However, the strong relationship is always based on the respect from both side. If our partner doesn’t respect or love us enough, we have to make a decision.
Now, many people are unable to leave a wrong relationship. I have a friend who is in a “pleasure + wound” relationship. This is obviously a mismatched relationship, but she desperately grasps the relationship, no matter how many people have discouraged her. Her boyfriend is a male chauvinist and he thinks that a man could be polygamous but women must be monogamous. I asked my friend why she did not leave her since he had hurt her so much. She said that she really loved the man and it was very not easy for them to be together, so she was not willing to leave so easily. Besides, she told that he sometimes was very good to her. The people who are hurt in relationship and cannot give up will start to lower their bottom line; for example, the intolerable things at the beginning for them will slowly become the tolerable ones. They will forget previous hurt as long as the other side does something to make them happy. I don’t understand what they think, but I hold it is better to learn to live alone and learn to love oneself than continue a harmful and heartbreaking relationship.
I agree with you. But a lot of people don’t get that until they have had a lot of experience, Unfortunately.
Pleasure + Wound vs Pleasure + Love
I was drawn to this post right away. The first sentence you share is something that I have reflected on. I have been in a relationship for almost five years and although neither of us have ever prompted each other for sexual experimentation involving another person, I have wondered about it. What’s been pressing on my mind is, “Is that just what happens when you’re with someone for a long time? After years and years of just us, will he one day need more and present me with a threesome or some other sexual desire of an open nature?”.
What makes me think of this is not our sex life, but hearing about the situations of others. I heard about married couples venturing into the “out of the norm” sexual world so often, I worried it was just what happens. As I grow independently and as we grow together, I’ve started to learn what is expressed in this post,
“. . . pain — whether physical or emotional — is trying to tell you that something is wrong, that something needs to change,” and that, “. . . it is possible to find eroticism plus love, and minus the wound.”
I think one of the major forces behind “mis-matched matches” and situations like the ones presented is people who enter relationships, or stay in them, and ignore red flags. I have watched the turbulent relationships of most of my family members end up in divorce. What I have learned is that sometimes there really are signs telling us that things are wrong and what is most important is addressing issues, making difficult decisions if changes cannot be made, and truly and genuinely loving yourself and your partner. When people ignore those signs, they either stay together in a web of problems and unhappiness or they divorce. The crucial factor succeeding recognizing, honestly, the realities of ourselves and our relationships, is effective communication. Which is, in my opinion, something that can make or break any type of relationship we have, especially a romantic one.
What I want for myself and my relationship is to never ignore the red flags and to productively communicate both the good and the bad. I know I never want a wedding, but one day we might get married and I want to be absolutely ready and confident that we have a healthy, happy, and loving relationship that can withstand all of life’s obstacles.
Some good thoughts. And often times:
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Love is always a difficult problem that no one can ever master. To be honest, I’ve never had a girl friend since I was born (20 years)!! However, I did fall in love several times. I’m not a unpopular person. I once had very close relationship with some girls, but I was always too slow to realize my feeling before it was too late. I can tell that love is always bitter sweet. Any action of the one you loved may affect your mood whole day long. One of the most important thing of love is to give up when we have no choice and before we are wounded too much.
Everyone says communication is the key to a successful relationship, and, oh, how true that is. I’m a quiet person and would prefer to stay silent in most situations, but I know that when my boyfriend and I get into little disputes I need to force myself to face the hard truth and talk about the matter. “Drew” could just leave her partner but what would that accomplish? No one would be learning anything, at that point. If there’s no communication, the opposite party has no idea that there even is a problem. Unless you are a true psychic, your partner cannot read your mind. Pain in any relationship needs to be addressed and solved as best it can and especially if the relationship is to go as smoothly as we all would hope for. I wonder if the couple in question have had a serious talk about what they want out of the relationship they are in, and how much they mean to each other. Everyone should hear that they are loved, and often, by their loved one(s). My boyfriend and I love each other whole-heartedly and deeply, and we make sure to tell each other often. Most everything has a choice attached to it, with most choices being painful to make, but that is certainly no excuse to live a life that you are forced to hate. If your partner wants a threesome so badly but you don’t for whatever reason, he should be willing to respect you enough to change his mind, because if he doesn’t he is not ready to sacrifice for you and make those tough decisions with you for the long haul. That goes for anyone. Choices shape everything, and the hardest to make are for the best causes. So I’ll say it one more time: COMMUNICATION IS NECESSARY FOR ANY SUCCESSFUL RELATIONSHIP. That’s one of the many pieces of advice to live by, and one I hold close to the heart.
For me, it seems that women are easier to get hurt in a relationship than men. Many female friends of mine complain about how unhappy somehow they are when they with their boyfriends, while my male friends barely do this. I think women do care more about love. From this article, the girl who was asked for threesome by her boyfriend felt hurt because of her boyfriend’s request. If I was in her shoes, I couldn’t accept this, either. I believe that there should not be the third person in love, so I think I understand her feelings. And I totally agree with “But if you are with someone who is causing you pain, it makes a lot of sense to see what else is out there, meet other people, and explore.” If he is not the one who can make you happy, then it better not be together for both. It means people should find someone who could make happiness rather than pain. There may be another person waiting for you.
I used to be so angry and take it personal when someone could not love me, care for me, or think about the right things like me but overtime, I have come to learn that not everyone is right for you and not everyone has the same heart as you. Falling in love is way too easy. It’s leaving that is the hardest part of all when you know you can not bare the pain anymore. Everyone has their own opinion on “three somes”. I personally do not like the idea of having a three some with MY partner, only because I know I would not like it and I am territorial. I would not be able to share my partner with someone else. It is not right to me. But other couples sometimes like that. As long as you two are both comfortable with having a three some, then all by means, do it and don’t let others judge you. But if you feel uncomfortable about it, the only way to get that bad gut feeling out of you is by talking to your partner and telling them exactly how you feel. Women are more emotionally and nurturing, so it’s okay to not feel okay with that. Usually men do things for men and sometimes do not involve emotions.
I find it disturbing how many people I know who have this problem as well. It seems as if these kinds of men don’t have any filter and use their partner as a sex object instead of an intimate parter. These kinds of comments shoot women’s egos down and makes them feel less feminine, beautiful, or sexy. It becomes an internal drive to strive to be “sexy” which can cause unhappiness trying to suppress your actual feelings. I have a friend whose boyfriend told her he wanted to have a threesome to “spice up their sex life since it was becoming dull.” She is 100% sure that this is the man for her but I have my doubts. I do not know their situation fully, but from an outsiders perspective it seems unhealthy and pretty damaging to her. Being told about the other “hot bodies” around you can also feel like a reason to stay with the one who is hurting you since there are doubts you’ll never find love again, especially with the competition of all the beach babes surrounding you. However, it is much more important to be patient and find someone suitable to you and makes you feel empowered instead of feeling as if women are a threat. This also damages how women see each other. Feminist Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie said, “We raise girls to see each other as competitors. Not for jobs or for accomplishments, which I think can be a good thing, but for the attention of men. We teach girls that they cannot be sexual beings in the way that boys are.” I agree with her since we raise girls to be “sexy” and to have their looks become more important than their smarts. It is important to talk to a boyfriend or whoever is advocating this type of behavior so we can try to limit it. Everyone deserves to be treated with respect and love.
I am a foreign student and back home, I do hear about threesome once in a while but it was never something that people would want to consider doing because it is just wrong. I guess it has got to do with how pornography changed the mindset of certain people and made them think that it is alright to do threesome. It is even worse when one is attached and yet considers doing threesome. It will hurt the other party.
This subject stood out to me the most because I’ve known people who would go for it without thinking it is bad or humiliating especially for women. I’ve once been asked for it but I rejected the offer because first of all i am a jealous type of person and also i find it very disrespectful for us (women). That being said, there are two ways of viewing this, either your partner doesn’t love you anymore or they just want to try something new. In any case, it is not acceptable!!! Also, it is funny how I didn’t this word until I came here so the first time a guy ask me that I was like what is that means. In my country we don’t know this. Finally, I think men are more open to this than women because they don’t see a big deal out of it, for them it is all about fun but there is way more meaning behind it than they actually think.
Thanks for chiming in on this.
People say falling in love is easy, but coming out of it is way too difficult. Well I completely believe in these lines. When you fall in love, you pretty much keep ignoring their mistakes , but at some point we should stop ignoring and respect our feelings and have some dignity to stand for ourselves. Accepting certain things in a relationship for which you are not comfortable, you shouldn’t go for it because sooner or later,you may regret of accepting it at first place.
Love can be blind, deaf and dumb. Too often dumb.
Since we are not so familiar with threesome in my home country, Japan, it was quite interesting to read this article. My boyfriend( he’s from here) has not asked me to do threesome YET, but he thinks it looks fun and tells me all the story about it. I would be like ” Why does he want to make love with someone else? He might not be satisfied with me..” But, some guys even ask for doing threesome to their girlfriends on purpose to make them jealous, and they even get happy when girls are not happy about it because they can feel the love. I think guys are more open about sex, but when it come to sex, girls can be very sensitive and romantic, because at least I consider sex as the way to make love. So,I think love is not what we can control or being controlled and the most important thing is you truly love their partners.
We also have stereotypes about what guys are like. Most guys actually seems to be the more romantic type. I agree that you can’t control love. But you actually can choose loving relationships, and choose not to be in relationships that aren’t loving. If that’s what you really want.
Hi there,
From reading your post, I can’t say I have been a relationship where a threesome has came up, but I do want to give you some insight on relationships.
Although you believe he is the one for you, nobody truly knows. I think that at times we love somebody so much that we become blind to certain things that play a big role in our relationship. I know exactly where you are coming from, where you believe this man is the one for you and that you couldn’t possibly ever love somebody as much as you love him, so you deal with some things you don’t want to deal with. If your boyfriend is making it clear that you do not satisfy him sexually then it is your job to decide if you want to be in a relationship where he is constantly fantasizing about other women, or if you want to find a man who loves you and who doesn’t want other women. Don’t settle for less than what you deserve, because a man is supposed to make you feel beautiful, loved, and make you literally feel like no other girl in the world exists. Yes, I know this sounds like a dumb fairytail, but it is true. Any man or woman who loves somebody will have no issue showing it, and although we are human beings and we have sexual desires, we should never be in a relationship if we feel that we cannot commit sexually to one person. To me it sounds like he is still young and wants to have fun and not be tied down. Just know that you can not make yourself do something to keep a man. If you don’t want to have a threesome, don’t. I think you may have to really think about what your standards are for a man, and what you want in a relationship. I am sure you will make the right decision for yourself.
My mother has been married twice, first with my father which ended when I was just a baby and she is still currently with her second husband now. Growing up I noticed she was madly in love with my step-dad, he treated her fairly well and provided a better life than what my father could give. As time moved forward and I got older to start fully seeing and understanding things, I noticed he was a very big ladies man. It annoyed me to the point where I was seeing all the scumbag things that he would do in front of my mother and surprisingly, she would let him do these things as if it was nothing. It got so bad he had numerous sexual harassment charges against him. Obviously, family and friends noticed the unfair treatment she was receiving from the so called “love of her life” but she still never said or did anything about it. Not till a few years ago, he started getting verbally and emotionally abusive which my mother is not one to be confrontational. You could see she was a totally different person, very sad and depressed. And as time passed, she still put up with it. At this point currently, he now has this crazy control over her life, everything she does has to run through him first. With family telling her to divorce him, she just ignores the fact that she’s being treated like shit. It has come to a point where maybe it’s her being scared? Maybe she doesn’t want to be alone? Maybe she likes that kind of love? Whatever it is, it’s not a healthy kind of love that you are suppose to feel. I think he just likes the fact that he has this power to do literally anything he wants in the relationship and get away with it unlike her, she’s just trapped. I tell her, learn to love yourself, you don’t need a man especially if he’s not giving you the love that you deserve. Hopefully my advice works.
I personally take myself out of bad situations or even when the love is gone. There is no point in wasting someones time being in a relationship with them if you don’t see eye to eye. You can love someone completely, but if they’re not giving you what you need or they’re searching for something that you can’t provide or want to give, it’s time to move on. You’ll never find that perfect someone, everything is about compromising in order to stay happy, if you can’t learn to do that, it’ll never work.
Thanks for your thoughtful comment.
Great question:
I imagine that each case is a bit different, but I see only two solutions to this one; leave him or indulge him and enjoy it.
Above all, however, she must realize with certainty that he does not feel love the same way as she, and that she is not going to change his desire, therefore:
He is likely going to seek a way to satisfy his fantasy, if not with her, then with others. Therefore, if she wants to stay with him, she either has to change herself, or understand that he is going to indulge with others, and she will have to live with it–likely heartbroken.
If she cannot cope with the heartbreak, and still can’t leave, then she must join him or risk insanity.
Thus, I would suggest that she should ease herself into his world by reading/watching threesome porn (MMF and FFM), masturbate with those scenarios in mind (replacing the female with herself), and if the FFM stimulates her, then indulge his fantasies and enjoy it. If the MMF stimulates her, then she should counter his suggestion with hers.
Porn can be therapeutic in some cases, but if she takes this route, her life and her attitude will be changed. One other consideration is that if she indulged and received pleasure from a threesome, it likely would be easier to leave him were she to choose that path in the future.
Having said all that, and since I’ve not been in that situation, I could be completely wrong. I’ve had such thoughts myself, and since my wife had intimated years ago that she could have been a lesbian, I suggested a FFM threesome. She rejected the suggestion, and that was that. My third partner, then, became Rosy Palms–always faithful.
Or leave him, like you said. Because we actually can choose our partners — even if it doesn’t seem like it at the time. We don’t have to be stuck in a bad mismatch.
We can choose pleasure + love over pleasure + wound.
Yes, that would likely be the hardest choice of all for many folks, but it is the best one.
You’ve defined it in very few words but, precisely. That introspection is very much needed that whether the love is hurting or giving pleasure. But, sometimes, it becomes difficult for people to ‘rise’ once they ‘fall’ in love…. that is where the conundrum starts…
You are right. The rise back up can seem near impossible.
What great advice, there is the question that you have to ask yourself, does love need to hurt? My opinion is no it shouldn’t hurt, but relationships are not always peaches and cream they do require work. I truly don’t believe you need to sacrifice your happiness just to pleasure your other half. I have been in a monogamous relationship for 11 years and I speak for the both of us that we are truly and happily in love. I do spice things up in the bedroom, but there are boundaries I set up and do not cross, and my partner respects that.The person that you are with should be able to love you for you, flaws in all, and if they are constantly throwing the other sex in your face you have to ask yourself why you allow someone to speak and treat you in such a negative way. You must first love and respect yourself first before you can truly find love and happiness.
It’s fine to be as spicy as you like, so long as everyone is into it. But it’s so important to realize that we don’t have to stay in relationships that are emotionally wounding.
I find it amazing how in my culture people don’t even know or at least pretend not to know about these things. I personally the first time heard about threesome was few months ago from one of my house mates. Other than that, I would have never guessed that something like that happen. Which, I prefer not to judge something I have no experience/ or more details about it. But yeah, I am very glad that I got the chance to learn these things. At least, I would be able to talk to my children one day about it, by the time my peers are dealing with other trends that I have no interest in, like fashion lol. Thank you very much professor, indeed, I have learned way more from those two classes than any of my business classes 🙂
You’re welcome. I was in business major once. Don’t know that I would do it again.
I think that sometime we are so in to someone that we put are feelings to the side. Most of the time that causes more problem in the long run. We need to bee able to express are feelings to the other person and them to respect them and if the scafires is great that we need to reevaluate. after while if you keep putting your feeling or morals to the side you’ll be in flicking more pain. This will cause self-worth and self esteem issue that may lead to more problems in the relationship. I do feel Ashely right that you need to speak up and if you is supposed to Monogamous relationship that he should be more sensitive to her feelings and to know that she only has eyes for her. I learned from experience that most man don’t have the same sense of feeling that we do and usually see the wrong in reckless eye balling, fantasizing. best advice I have is to tell that person how you feel and if your meant that person wont act on impulse and take your in account an respect your wishes. If not the person wasn’t for you and their true will shine through to know then later and have deal with much married with children and theirs more to lose.
Thanks for your input. Communication is a wonderful thing.
It seems pretty normal and common for guys to entertain the thought of a threesome, and many guys will bring it up just to test the waters. I do think it was a bit distasteful of him to comment on other women’s bodies while camping, but maybe he didn’t know that made her uncomfortable, but she could have spoke up about it. I just don’t think a threesome is a good idea when two people are in a committed relationship. There’s a lot of risks involved with hurt feelings and jealousy. If it were me, I would ask him how he feels about also having a threesome with another guy. If he protested against it as I suspect most guys would, then you automatically set it up so he thinks about how it’s kind of unfair for him to ask about a threesome with another woman if he’s unwilling to have one with another guy.
And I wasn’t sure if Drew is a guy or girl, because it could be either.
For sure this couple is mismatched because the behavior of one of them is wounding.
And yeah, I like the idea of turning things around — see how YOU like it.
That guy is a jerk and it’s too bad she feels like he’s the one for her, when it’s obvious he’s not. It should be a good indicator to her that they are not a match and she should leave him behind and find a man that loves and appreciates her, but for whatever reason she refuses to look for a better man.
And as far as threesomes go. If threesomes are very, very important to a man for whatever reason. He should do it or have that done when single and meeting women more open to casual fun too. I don’t get why some guys decide to be in a committed, serous relationship and then decide to pressure their gf, fiance or wife to have a threesome, when something like that most often will cause problems and risk something special, as far as marriage or a serious relationship. It seems stupid to risk that for something like that. From what I’ve seen and how I saw it is most men when they get in a serious relationship, committ or married, they are done with the fooling around and are ready to settle down. So they are ready for something, deep and more meaningful, so threesomes are not important or they are past that. Whether them not being interested in it, because they are serious now, or like I said they did that stuff already when single and done with that and ready for something serious and not have another woman involved with his SO.
I think about these guys married and serious, that maybe they should have declined on getting serious if they still have these things they want to do. If you want to have threesomes, why did you get serious with this woman or married? If that’s a high priority, get that fantasy done when single, not when in a relationship, especially a serious relationship with a woman you love.
What you say makes a lot of sense to me.
I think that if people are nonmonogamous they should get together with nonmonogamous people. Otherwise you end up with a mismatch that is painful for everyone, probably. I’m so important to realize that you don’t have to combine pleasure with wounding.
I used to take it very personally when someone couldn’t or wouldn’t love me. And then at some point realized not everyone is a right match- and also – that in certain cases I should actually be very grateful that someone wasn’t feeling the love because it also meant our issues were probably not a match too. Harville Hendrix in his books about how we are drawn to people subconsciously and consciously (for the positives and the compatible wounds). So as we heal, we tend to draw in people who are more healed as well and that can make life and love easier.
Wise words.
What’s the old saw? Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.
That’s a really helpful perspective.
But we don’t have to accept everything.
I love the serenity prayer.
Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference.
I have been proposed a three-some in many of my past relationships. Perhaps because I am nice or God knows why… (hahaha). Notice the word “past” relationships.
Threesome seems to be an ok thing to do these days and I know from people who have done it, the pain and jealousy or even anomosity grows and stays after the ‘fun’ is over. Very interesting post, and I agree – love should lead you in your choices. Causing discomfort and hurt is not love.
Yeah, seems like really good advice to me. Let love lead you.