She Wants An Abortion. He Doesn’t
A man asked me this question:
If a couple are in a safe, sane, and committed relationship I think that the women should not have all the say in whether or not to have an abortion.
It would be a shame for a guy to have his baby taken away from him because the woman didn’t want to grow the baby inside of her.
I think that entitles him to at least a conversation.
A baby should not be denied a life just because a women doesn’t want to bear a child, I mean after all the point of life is to have offspring.
I just think that a man should be just as entitled to his baby provided he has always treated the woman with respect and is, for lack of a better term, a “good man.” Yes, she bears more costs, but the baby is also the man’s so he should have at least 45% say.
I hope I haven’t caused you any offense with my opinion.
Here’s my response:
I’m not at all offended. And I appreciate your thoughtfulness.
Yes, if the woman and man are in a healthy and committed relationship, I feel they should at least have a conversation.
But here are some of my other thoughts:
Restrictions don’t stop abortion — they kill more women
In some times and places laws have been proposed or enacted saying a woman cannot get an abortion without the consent of the father.
I’m against restrictions on abortion because they don’t affect the level of abortion very much — but they do cause more women to die. Desperate women go out of state, out of the country, find illegal abortionists who are often unqualified and who kill the women, or they try to do it themselves and end up dying.
If the women have to go out of state, and especially if they have a waiting period once they have traveled many miles, they must spend more time raising funds, and then get the abortion at a later stage — which is more dangerous.
I seek to keep abortion to a minimum
I am for policies that keep abortion to a minimum: comprehensive sex education, contraception availability, and not shaming girls for their sexuality. Important because when they are shamed girls don’t use contraception — they don’t want others — or themselves — to think that they are “bad girls.”
Unfortunately, most people who are against abortion are also against the policies that most prevent it. So they shut down Planned Parenthood, which is mostly about providing contraception.
Pro-lifers aren’t really pro-life
In fact, most people who say they are pro-life are against many things that save lives: Obamacare, Medicaid, prenatal care for poor women, and food stamps for: children, the elderly, the disabled, the working poor, and people who can’t find work in a bad economy.
They are also against important things that save lives: environmental regulations, climate change legislation, sensible gun laws that screen for terrorism, mental illness and domestic violence…
They aren’t pro-life so much as wanting to control women. So they make sure that men make decisions about women’s bodies.
Fertilized egg ≠ a person
And a fertilized egg is not equivalent to a person.
What if anti-abortion protesters marched on a stem cell research clinic and a fire broke out. Let’s say someone had to make a choice between saving one 2-year-old or saving vats full of fertilized eggs (people?). Which would you choose to save?
I haven’t met one pro-lifer who would save the thousands of fertilized eggs over the one child.
Can a man have equal say if they disagree?
You say,
I just think that a man should be just as entitled to his baby provided he has always treated the woman in a respectable way and is for lack of a better term a “good man.”
Can you have equal say when you disagree on a matter like this?
Since you can’t have equal say here, she must make the final decision since she bears much higher costs of the pregnancy.
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Posted on September 23, 2019, in reproductive rights and tagged Controlling women, pro choice, pro life, reproductive rights, should men have a say in abortion. Bookmark the permalink. 165 Comments.
BroadBlogs 
The author makes a good point in response to whether one should have abortion. If a couple is in a committed relationship then they should not consider abortion. You should give the baby the option of life. The point of living a good life is to have offspring. You should not kill a baby. It is wrong not to give them the option to live. What if the baby wants to live? I do not feel offended anyone by saying that I am against abortion. I find abortion very cruel because you should give the baby the chance at life. I think abortion is like murder. It is, in my opinion, like you are killing someone just because you feel you are not ready to be a mother. If you feel you need to get an abortion then you should use protection and not get pregnant. I feel men should also have a say in whether to keep the baby because even though the baby is living inside you, it is still the man’s baby.
growing up ive never had a conversation with anyone, like my mom or sister about abortions, until recently when I found out my mom doesn’t believe in it. when in a relationship I agree, yes you should talk to your significant other on whether the choices you believe in or not, i feel that having tough conversations like that are hard because sometimes the significant other has a different opinion. Ive always believed in her body her choice. Abortion can be for many reasons. many times women aren’t ready for a child, whether that be financially or mentally, maybe even physically. some women can’t handle so much. yes, there are many risks with having an abortion but there could be even more having a child.
I was a teen parent at the age of 16. Teens of that age shouldn’t be acting in such a way. As a young adolescent, I didn’t have a development structure. It’s important as a parent to find out your child’s dream, so they can focus on achieving them. Though it is easy to be distracted by beauty around us. Beauty comes in all shapes and forms. Enjoying life slowly instead of taking a leap into parenthood can help you become more successful so your future kids can have a healthy development. I feel morally people should be accepting of having a child. It’s not a bad thing, it’s a blessing. I don’t want to have another child yet to avoid the stressful conversation, you must discuss it with your partner ahead of time in case she ends up pregnant. At the end of the day it’s up to the woman holding the child, if she decides to keep it.
Thanks for sharing about your experience with this.
When it comes to an abortion I feel personally that it’s not always black and white. A woman should have the right to her own body and if she doesn’t want to carry and give birth to a child, that’s her own DNA than she shouldn’t have to. It shouldn’t be frowned upon that a woman makes her own choices for her self. I feel like people always bash women for getting abortions because some people struggle getting pregnant and the ones who are able to pregnant take it for granted. However I feel like when a woman decides she wants to pursue getting an abortion I feel like it’s something that should be done sooner than later I don’t think it’s right to carry to a certain amount of weeks and just change your mind unless there’s like a medical reason behind it. Also sometimes protection isn’t always affective an accident happens. If a woman isn’t Mentally or financially ready to have a baby then that’s their choice if they want to pursue the pregnancy. Also sometimes a woman does not want to have a child from rape although some may argue to give it up for adoption but how is she supposed to live with yourself knowing that there’s a child out in the world that’s hers and she’s giving them away and to know that there’s a constant reminder of what she went through also what happens when the child comes looking for their birth mother and she has to explain I was raped. I feel like a man doesn’t get to say whether on what a female chooses to do because in the end it’s the woman has to go to pregnancy and her body will significantly change and after affects that it was due to her mentally and physically. If a man’s goal is to conceive a child with someone then he should make it clear from the start to her that’s what he wants.
This has always been a topic which I have had internal debate about. I do not find it fair that it is completely up to a woman whether or not a baby is brought into a relationship or not. I would understand if the father was not in the picture, but if the father was expected to do half of the work providing, caring, and raising the child for a majority of their lives, he should have a say whether or not the baby is born. I believe women have a right to choose what happens with their bodies, but this decision impacts both the mother and the father for 18+ years, or it doesn’t. And I think a mans opinion (given they’re in a healthy, functioning relationship) matters.
Yes. I’m wondering what you think if they happen to disagree.
At the end of anything it’s the woman’s choice. I do agree that a conversation between partners should be had. However, pregnancy can be difficult for many women and if she chooses not to, she has every right to do what is best for her. With pregnancy comes a lot for a woman, a change in one’s body, physically, emotionally and mentally, some are just not ready for such change. Pro lifers are not pro life rather just pro birth. The cost of a baby is high. Not everyone is financially stable and able to support a life for a child.
Pregnancy can be difficult for many women. The length of a pregnancy is 9 months, which is a lot of time to be invested in a child. It can also take a dangerous toll on the woman’s body. Complications can arise. For poor women, it is difficult to afford proper prenatal care. The cost of having a baby is also high. I agree that in the case in which a woman becomes pregnant, a conversation should be had between the father and the mother. However, ultimately I believe that it should be the woman who gets to decide. The woman should decide whether she wants to carry the baby to full term or have an abortion. The woman is most likely the one who will be investing most of her time with the baby, so she should decide whether she wants to take that risk. She will also be the one who carries the baby, and after the baby is born she will likely contribute more time caring for the baby than the father would. This is because in the U.S. women are the ones who spend most of the time taking care of the children. From the time the baby is conceived to when the baby has to be breastfed, women are the ones who are most likely going to be spending the most time taking care of the baby. Then there is also the issue of class and race. Women of color, particularly black women, are more at risk for complications during pregnancy. They are also more likely to be paid less, that is they will have more difficulty being able to afford care for the baby. With all the risks women are taking when becoming pregnant, I believe they should have the final say in whether they want an abortion or not.
I agree that it should be a conversation between the two. However, I think the woman should always do what’s best for her. Pregnancy is hard and so is postpartum, some women don’t want kids and that’s fine. I don’t believe that people should have offsprings just because our bodies are made to. When it comes to abortions I like to say I’m pro-choice, I wouldn’t have an abortion but I can understand why others do. My personal beliefs and opinions will not stop others from choosing what is best for them. Both choices are extremely hard for a woman to make. I see pro-lifers in front of planned parenthood all the time calling everyone who walks in “murderers” as if they don’t offer other services. As mentioned they aren’t truly pro-life if they stand against services that help children who don’t have access to health care. All that time and energy should be directed to the kids who are alive and are suffering. It’s shocking to me that we are constantly taking more and more from women. Instead of moving forward, we are constantly taking steps back. It’s surprising to me how they don’t realize that defunding planned parenthood will prevent women from getting birth control, therefore, raising the numbers of unwanted pregnancies.
I do not believe in the idea of any restrictions among the female body, including abortion. In most cases, the wanting of an abortion is due to not being ready for the body changes, the responsibility, the change in lifestyle, and even the health consequences. Men have the decision to want to stay or leave because they are not the ones carrying the fetus and ultimately do not have to deal with the consequences if they choose not to. If the couple is in a healthy relationship, then they wouldn’t be having a fight regarding the decision of freedom of her body. Guys are given the “pass” to not wear a condom because it’s uncomfortable or doesn’t feel good and the idea of men contraception is controversy because they don’t want to go through the side effects and it disallows the freedom of the male body. There is a huge population of orphans and children within foster care, adoption agencies, and on the streets mostly due to not having the access to abortions or feeling sinful if they did go through with it. The idea of female liberation of the bodies is appalling to men – rape happens everyday and there is only small amount of cases that actually go to trial. In the end, no means no and females should have 100% in their own bodies as men have with theirs.
As controversial as this topic is, I strongly believe that it is ultimately the woman’s decision in getting an abortion or not. Assuming that the woman and man are in a healthy relationship together, then yes, the father should be a part of the conversation. However, this doesn’t equate to allowing the man to have the ultimate say. Women should have the right to decide what to do with their body, and if there is a baby growing inside that she does not want, then she should be able to exercise that right and get an abortion if she wishes to do so. Having a conversation to know each other’s stance on this topic is definitely necessary and essential to continuing that healthy relationship, but a man should not force a woman to give birth if she does not want to. To do so would only cause a terrifying and traumatic experience on the woman and lead to negative consequences on the now strained relationship.
In my opinion I think that at the end of the day it’s the woman who chooses what to do with her body. Yeah I believe that the father should have the right to know and share his opinion but at the end of the day the mother will decide what she thinks it’s the best choice. After all, the mother is going to be the one carrying the baby and not the father, so It’s really up to the mother. You also can’t force a woman to keep a baby she’s unsure about having because this could stress her out and could cause her to have a miscarriage. Sometimes the parents situation is tough and may not be able to afford a baby. There is many reasons why some women decide to have abortions, maybe the female isn’t ready to be a mother yet maybe the baby‘s father isn’t in the picture. I feel like it’s really up to the mother and how she feels about it. I have friends who have chosen to have their baby even without the dad in the picture and I have friends who have chosen to not have their baby at the time with their significant other. I’m sure they all have their reasons and I respect that.
I believe that at the end of the day it’s the women’s decision on what she wants to do with HER own body, the guy can probably give his opinion but it’s not his choice what she does with her body. Women have the right to do what they want with their own body and the idea of men being able to control HER choice is absolutely outrageous. If some people think that abortion is wrong then that’s fine then they don’t have to get an abortion, but they shouldn’t push that rule on every women and take their choice away. It’s her body and she is the only one who has a right to say what happens to it, she is the one with the uterus and she chooses if she wants to grow a baby inside of it. If it’s not your uterus, it doesn’t affect you so don’t worry about what other women decide to do with their body.
The idea that a man should have a say in the conception of a child merely because he contributed his sperm has always baffled me. This may be too crass or radical of me to say, but a man’s sperm holds almost no value. While logically it does “require” a man’s sperm to “create” life, this does not mean it equates to a high value. Economically, something is denoted with value by its level of scarcity. A man’s sperm is not a scarce resource. While women have limited amounts of eggs, men are able to ejaculate for their entire lives (whether or not the sperm is capable of producing a child is irrelevant in this case). A woman can be pregnant by an anonymous sperm donor, but you have to aptly compensate a woman if she is to be a surrogate. There is a reason for this: a man can jizz into a cup, get a few hundred dollars, and call it a day in order to play a 50% role in creating a child. A woman has to go through approximately nine months of pregnancy, countless amounts of doctor’s visits, physical and emotional torment we can’t put a number on, and an excruciating labor process. This line of logic is supported by the old saying: a man can father a countless amount of children in a year, but a woman can mother at most 2 individual births. I can’t seem to recall the exact television show, but I remember a scene in which a man was trying to fight for equal visitation rights because he was a sperm donor. The mother’s lawyer argued that this did not constitute anything, because if he held being a sperm donor to equate fatherhood, then he should be sued for reckless abandonment for every single masturbation session he had.
This is such a sensitive subject. I live by a Planned Parenthood and there is almost everyday older people outside protesting. Planned parenthood offers way more resources than just abortions, I hope they know that. I understand the points the guy was making. I can see why he thinks that just because they are in a good place he should have a say. However, the women has the last say, in my opinion. A child is forever, if someone does not feel ready to have one why would they put themselves and the child in such a negative environment. It is physically and mentally not healthy for both. Is the same way if a women told a man to get a vasectomy just because she doesn’t want kids. Deciding on another persons body, and that persons choices is no to me. We have to respect each other and whatever we want to do with our bodies. We only know what is right for us, no one else does.
And you know what? A lot of these same protesters are also against birth control (that planned Parenthood also offers), which is the biggest preventer of abortion! If these folks think abortion is actually murder wouldn’t you think that birth-control would be better than murder?
This was a really interesting subject to read as it touches a few boundaries. I personally think abortion is okay before the first trimester, although after that I would be leaning on the against side. Although, I ultimately believe that the choice is up to a woman because she is the one putting her body through an intense nine month process. Obviously, if a couple is in a healthy relationship, I believe the father is entitled to having a conversation, although nothing more to that extent. Honestly, I think how much input the father can have on the abortion discussion depends on the state of the relationship between the couple. If the couple is married or is planning on getting married, the discussion can be on the more progressive side. Though if there is not a future or healthy relationship, that decision is completely up to the woman and no input is needed. This topic has a large grey area, although it is ultimately up for the mother to decide.
Abortion is a topic that has been discussed for many years. In my opinion I wouldn’t like to have and abortion. However, I respect everyone’s opinions and decisions. I agree with the author because woman should have the right to decide what they want with their bodies. When two individuals are in a a serious relationship, yes they should have a conversation since it is a situation that include both of them. Yet, at the end of the day is her body and she should have the last call. Even though I don’t like abortion I know there are situations that require the use of it. For example, when a woman has been a victim of a rape, when having a baby put her life in risk, when the child won’t have a good quality of life, etc. Woman in these situations shouldn’t have to feel judge when they decide to take an abortion, instead society should accept or respect their decision. Answering the main question of the post, if men have the right to say, I personally fell it depends of the situation that the couple are in. The situation explained in the post is a healthy and serious relationship, hence, she should free safe to discuss this matter with her partner. In this case the Father’s opinion it is important, and should count on the final decision that at the end of the day she should make.
This topic was a very interesting read. I don’t believe in abortion because you are killing a human being but I think that every woman has the choice to keep it or abort it it’s up to them they have the freedom to choose. Reading about this topic it reminds me of a incident. My relative was pregnant but she chose to abort the baby because she was not ready to be a parent. Her husband and her didn’t have enough money to raise the baby.
I just think that a man should be just as entitled to his baby provided he has always treated the woman with respect and is, for lack of a better term, a “good man.”
I agree with this statement because it think that having an abortion is a big decision and a couple should talk about it before going through with it. I believe that men also have an equal say it this situation because he is also the parent to the unborn child. I know that some parents don’t have the financial ability to raise the baby so they go through with the abortion. Women have many reasons for getting an abortion and that’s their freedom of choice. I think that if a couple is in a healthy relationship then the man has the same amount of say in the matter as the woman because they both are parents to the baby.
This was an interesting topic to read about it. I personally do not believe in abortion, but I feel like women should have a choice in what they do with their body. No one should be able to tell a woman what to do with her body. I have had two children and both were different experiences and my second child was even more painful than the first. I had to limit my work because I would start contracting and end up in the hospital. I would get dehydrated and my life had to change during my pregnancy while the babies dad was busy making other babies going to vegas and drinking every weekend. A part of me wants to say the dad should have a say if the couple is married or in a long term relationship, but with an agreement on him providing for the mom and whatever they come to terms with. Men can’t get pregnant and have a baby like we can. My kids don’t have a dad in their life because that was their decision, but I got to keep my babies and I am a happy single mother. What if he wants to be a happy single dad? I think it is a very complicated situation, but a woman goes through so many changes and encounter obstacles and sometimes they have no help which makes matters even harder. A man can never understand what a woman must go through to create a child and bring that child into this world. A discussion would be a courtesy to the dad, but the woman should make the decision.
“Men can’t get pregnant and have a baby like we can. ”
Now that Apple, as global heads of the woke brigade have officially pronounced via their pregnant man emojis that men can get pregnant, I can finally debate people who believe murdering the unborn is okay. Now I’m crushing every debate and all this thanks to woke companies like Apple for insisting that men are capable of getting pregnant too. Way to go, Apple! Men are also finding out other things they are now allowed to have opinions on such as makeup, periods, and breastfeeding in public.
Whether men or women get pregnant, they are human and a collection of cells is not.
If a laboratory that uses stem cells caught on fire would you save thousands of “people“ in the form of vats of embryos or one terrified and screaming two-year-old?
Abortion is a sensitive subject that has been debated about for years. I personally do not think there is much to debate or even talk about for that matter. If a man and woman are in a long term, committed and healthy relationship, I think that a conversation is necessary because there are two people involved in that situation. However, at the end of the day, a woman is carrying the baby, therefore it is her choice. I would feel exactly the same way if roles were reversed and men were the ones who carried the child. On another note, there are other reasons why abortion is necessary and like you said, a lot of pro-lifers do not support all that is pro life. Until pro lifers support everything that is pro life, I will not continue to argue with them.
Abortion is a very touchy subject. Honestly I agree to every point you make in this post. Since society is very controlling over what women should do with their bodies, it makes every situation harder. It’s the woman’s body, so it’s her choice. And there are so many reasons as to why abortion should be okay and why we should do it safely. Going to the main question of the post, though, if men should have a say. I believe that if the father is in a relationship with the mother, he should be able to have a say in whether or not he thinks the baby should live or not. The couple should think it over. If for instance the father is the woman’s rapist, he shouldn’t have a say, he already has no respect for the woman so why would he have respect for the child. It’s not like he can be a part of the child’s life anyway. Overall though, I believe it is important to hear the father’s opinion. Whether the woman decides to get an abortion or not is still fully her decision, but it’s always good to hear a second opinion especially if it’s the father. The couple should work out a decision together.
This was a very interesting blog topic and I fully agree that if a man and woman are in a committed relationship, a conversation is doable. I think most women would want to talk to their partners about a pregnancy planned or not. Whether that man in the relationship has the say as to what happens in that pregnancy is another thing. Men don’t have the obligation of carrying the fetus till its born. Men also don’t have to birth the child and have to take time off from work or school to recover and care for a newborn. I believe that a man should have an opinion, however the decision lies within the woman. Some men, tend to want to have a say over a woman’s body and what she does with it. If the tables were turned would it be the same? I have a friend, who got pregnant and her boyfriend made her feel so guilty about his own beliefs in abortion, that she did have the baby. During the pregnancy, she really wasn’t very happy. The mother of this child sacrificed her needs to accommodate her boyfriend. The mother and child do have a loving relationship, however it was strained for many years from being forced into motherhood at such a young age. Some men do not understand that being forced into motherhood could be detrimental to the child and mother. Anti-abortionist, do not realize the emotional abuse it is to force a women to have an unwanted pregnancy.
Thank you for your thoughts on this.
Everything here rings true to me, honestly this post echoed everything that was already in my head, it was nice to read. I agree with the hypothetical and I think that given those particular parameters yes a conversation is warranted and that both partners should have their opinions at least heard. I also agree that restrictions against abortion do not work and that the end result is dangerous situations for women. I actually think that a sort of parallel can be drawn between the criminalization of abortion and the criminalization of drugs, I believe that people want what they want (for varying reasons) and they will get what they want regardless of legality, so in the end why not legalize in an effort to create the safest possible space for those who seek out these things. Moving on I also agree with keeping abortions to a minimum, areas that lack sexual education for minors tend to have higher teen pregnancy rates, again people want what they want and they will do what they want so our best bet is to simply give them as much knowledge as possible and provide them with the means to go about what they want in the safest way possible. I don’t want to dwell too much on the pro-lifer stuff, suffice to say I agree with the posting.
I believe the man’s feeling about abortion are valid and it is completely understandable why he feels this way however, abortion is something that a woman who is carrying a child should decide on. When he states “I just think that a man should be just as entitled to his baby” He is absolutely correct a man and a woman should both be equally entitled to the baby however in this case there is no baby involved, there is just an embryo. A mother who is a living breathing person’s needs should always come before an unborn baby or an embryo. One statement that caught my eye was ‘I’m against restrictions on abortion because they don’t affect the level of abortion very much — but they do cause more women to die”. There are women who live in certain places in the world who can not have a baby due to laws, and social norms. Places like the middle east women are put to death for having pre marital sex, this forces woman to seek illegal treatment because for them they only have two alternatives; Death or risk death. Even though it seems unfair to some men that they don’t have a say on abortion it is also unfair to a woman, because at the end of the day its her body, her career, her life that has to deal with the consequences.
Abortion has always been a delicate topic to discuss and is certainly not an easy thing to talk about when it comes to decide on the final decision. One thing is for sure though and that is it all comes down to the girl. The girl would have to carry the baby for nine months and she would have go through lots of troubles to deliver the child safely. In this case, if the girl does not want to have the child but the guy does, he must consider everything that comes with the pregnancy. Ultimately, the choice is up to hers because it is her body.
Fortunately, places like Planned Parenthood exists to provide contraceptives, abortions, and more. However, it is unfortunate that some states make abortion illegal which leads to mothers traveling to other places to have a risky abortion. Additionally, there are many cases as to where a lot of people are against abortion but would not provide anything to make sure that child will grow up in a safe environment. They only care about they fact that abortions “kill” a child. However, it is all about making sure that the child would grow up in an appropriate environment.
Finally, I completely disagree when he stated that life is all about having an offspring. I firmly believe you can have a fulfilling life even without starting a family or even falling in love with another person. There are other ways to live a happy life!
I understand that the man questioned this article wants to have an opportunity to meet his future child. However, I don’t think that men should have an equal say in the matter. Do they deserve a conversation? Totally. But ultimately it is the woman who will bear the brunt of the burden and have to sacrifice 9 months of her life for the child so the final say should be hers. As for restrictions, I agree with the article in that there should be fewer restrictions on abortion and more access to preventative measures (such as better sex ed, protection, etc). Abortion should be legal for everyone; whether or not a woman chooses to have an abortion is up to her entirely. If you don’t believe in abortion, you can make the choice not to have one, but taking the choice away from other women who need it is not okay. I also wanted to mention I feel as though the portion of the article that talked about common pro-life beliefs took a detour from the main topic of conversation. While although it is often true that those who don’t support abortion are often conservative, I’m not sure that mentioning all the policies they are often against really added to the content of the article. (I do think that pro-life is definitely about controlling women and their bodies; that part was relevant to the article and well put).
While I agree with the fact that those in a healthy relationship should be at least open to having a conversation, there was something the man asking the question said that particularly caught my eye. In his brief argument for his point of view, he said, “It would be a shame for a guy to have his baby taken away from him because the woman didn’t want to grow the baby inside of her.” But, that’s exactly it. It’s inside her, keyword: her. While, yes, having a conversation with then is important, it is still the woman’s body and if she doesn’t feel right having the baby then she shouldn’t be forced to and she should be allowed the medical care to ensure that and to ensure her safety. This is a topic that is constantly argued about in our country but, if we get rid of the safe abortion options and organizations like planned parenthood then we will be further putting people at risk. Getting rid of places that handle abortions will not make it so that no one gets abortions, it will make it so that they aren’t getting abortions in a safe environment and they could be risking their own health. Because of this, I feel that while the man in the relationship should at least be able to have a civil conversation regarding the topic, it is the women carrying the baby that should make the final decision.
“that’s exactly it. It’s inside her, keyword: her.”
Errm, since when is inside/outside a moral category? Let’s say I’m obese and I get a doctor to liposuction the fat out, and I get him to put my child under the folds of skin. Now it’s “inside” me, I can stab it with moral impunity? Oh you say, but the child can live outside you. OK fine, what if the baby can live outside the woman, it’s old enough now? Will you at least condemn that?
The amazing thing to me is young people are so indoctrinated with the talking points of their tribe, they can’t think through the meaning of the arguments they are making.
If a fire broke out and you were in a position to save thousands of fetuses versus one 2-year-old who would you choose to save?
I believe that if a man and a woman are in a healthy relationship, the man should have an opinion on whether or not the woman should keep the baby. However, in the end, the woman should be able to make the ultimate decision because it is her body that she is putting at risk. Giving birth is something that men do not fully understand. It comes with both emotional and physical pain that sometimes men are not fully aware of. It is a stressful process to go through and that is why I think a woman should have the right to choose what happens to her body on her own. A man can be there to help a woman make the decision, but it should not be his choice in the end, especially when both parties disagree. There are many different factors that come in when a woman makes the decision, and there is a lot to consider. It is not always easy to come to an agreement but if there is no agreement, then maybe the relationship was not a healthy one in the first place.
Women should have the final say. Period.
I can understand how this can be viewed as a complicated situation. Pregnancy and bringing a child into the world is a serious matter and should be taken as such. I do agree that when a woman and a man are in a healthy, consenting, mature relationship and pregnancy becomes a conversation, both partners should be allowed to voice their opinions and concerns. But, as you stated in your article, pregnancy comes at a much higher cost for women. Physically, mentally, emotionally, professionally, and personally – women must sacrifice a lot more when having a baby.
Pregnancy, while innately female, is still controlled under a patriarchal governing. Birth control is only for women’s bodies. The responsibility of not becoming pregnant falls directly to the woman. Men need only be responsible for a condom, and even then some men prefer sex without it because it feels better for them. I also know many women who take on the added responsibility for paying for condoms – since their partners “forget” or “are too busy” to stop at the drug store. Yet, if she becomes pregnant, it automatically becomes a man’s right to intervene and help make the choice. We see this in relationships, laws, and governing entities. If the pregnancy was truly a more equal share, then I’d agree – men should have a vote in if the pregnancy is terminated or not.
Proper sex education is key, absolutely. I agree that it’s not about more abortions, it’s about making sure everyone understands sex, contraception, and proper sexual health. I think that our boys and men should also learn the cycles of the female menstrual period, and the timing of when pregnancy is at a higher probability during a woman’s cycle. It’s not hard to learn this – there are even apps nowadays to track this for women. The key thing is to communicate and to learn.
Don’t get me wrong – I know that there are amazing men in this world: respectful, kind, sensitive, caring, and nurturing. Men who are incredible fathers, wonderful partners, and phenomenal role models to girls and boys. I come from one of these men. Because I know they exist, it makes my stance on a woman’s choice even stronger. Men should be held accountable and expected to be aware of all the sacrifices a woman must go through if/when she becomes pregnant, and that a man’s role in pregnancy – personally and in public view – are skewed unfairly.
Pregnancy isn’t equal. The ways we prevent it, feminine health, and how we decide are all steeped in male dominance. Until that changes, women should always have the final say. Period.
I do agree that the man should have some say in the matter of the pregnancy, only if they are in a healthy relationship. The female ultimately has the final say in the matter, because she is the one that actually carries more of the bore of the pregnancy. I have always believed in being pro-choice. It was astonishing that you brought up the point that those who believe in pro-life would make the choice to save a 2 year-old rather then a thousand fertilized eggs. This article brings to light both sides of the argument. I agree that as a society we should try to keep the numbers of abortions at a minimum, which ultimately pertains to being safe while having intercourse. Abortions are not something that women take lightly, and there is a lot of thought that goes behind the decision.
After reading through the points provided in this post, I would have to say that I completely agree with some of the arguments being made. Abortion can often be a difficult topic to come to a consensus between partners. As you mentioned, if the relationship is healthy and safe these conversations should be held. However, ultimately, I don’t believe that men should have “45%” say.
The argument presented regarding those who are pro-life was one that I hadn’t considered. As mentioned, being pro-life would mean that you support all these other programs, and regulations that save lives. A woman being limited access to having an abortion and having to take other means like going abroad or doing it themselves puts their life in danger. This is where we need to consider what does being pro-life mean, and whose life are we really protecting? The example used about fertilized eggs is a clear depiction that a fertilized egg outside of a woman’s body in a laboratory wouldn’t be seen as holding a person. But when the fertilized egg is inside of a woman’s body it is seen as something more than a fertilized egg.
It is important to discuss these concerns and inform others. This question presented is one that many other men might have as well, and it is important to present information to help them understand why they aren’t entitled to making these decisions. Thank you so much for sharing this discussion and your thoughts on it!
You’re welcome!
I agree that the man should have opinion if they are in a healthy relationship, but I believe ultimately it’s the woman choice if she wants to keep it or not. I don’t think a man fully understands what a woman goes through not just physically, but also mentally when we are pregnant, but some do. For example, when I found out I was pregnant, I was also in healthy relationship, but we have only been dating for a couple of months. We found out together because I took a pregnancy test at his place and while he was happy, I was crying, and afraid. He told me that he wanted to keep it and he will support me on everything and anything, but if I didn’t want to keep it, it was my choice and he will still support me, so it was up to me on what I wanted to do. I wish there were more man like him, because he understood that yes we both created it, but it was MY choice, and that’s the logic I want our son to have when he gets older. I feel that there may be alot of reasons in why woman abort but whatever the reason it is, who are we to judge? We do we even care? When it has nothing to do with us, how is it hurting us?
If two people are in an understanding and committed relationship, they should be able to have the conversation about getting pregnant; without leading to any falling out. Although I am not a woman, It’s still common knowledge that giving birth is a painful experience as well as stressful in the months leading to labor. Men do not have to go through that pain. There are always political debates on whether abortion should be abolished or not. But in retrospect, it is always men pushing towards legislation that centers around a woman’s body. Ultimately it should only be a woman’s choice to choose what she wants to do with her own body. Because if any of my future daughters were in that situation, I would want them to be able to have freedom over their bodies.
A committed relationship involves two people most of the time and a child is something that affects both people in that relationship. However, I think when determining how much weight in a decision each person gets, you have to consider how much either decision will affect each person. In the case of pregnancy and abortion, I think everyone can agree that the greater effect will be on the one that would be carrying the baby. This should give them more weight in the decision. This should not mean the other person gets no say at all. It just means they don’t get the final say. I think another thing that is really important to consider is what kind of environment would that child be brought into? If the decision to keep the baby isn’t fully supported by everyone involved, the child would be subject to a lack of adequate resources and parental support and care. Money, education, health, housing, nurture, time, knowledge, mental stability, physical strength, and many more factors need to be considered when making the decision of bringing a life into the world.
I have always had strong beliefs about reproductive rights, it always made sense to me to be able to allow women’s to have autonomous control over their own bodies because well, it’s their own bodies!
Coming from a household with 7 kids in total, no matter how much I loved my siblings my parents often times wore themselves down thin trying to maintain all of us and at their age now they’re often quick to anger and have little patience. Perhaps because I was less emotionally evolved as a teenager I would often ask my mother “why did you have more kids if you already had 4?” She would cry at this question wondering what I was reading or who I was talking to to have these thoughts.
The man above is quite tame in his approach to the subject of abortion and isn’t all wrong as was mentioned in the response. I also believe that men should at least be part of the conversation, meaning that if a woman gets pregnant she should let him know. That is the end of it though, whether or not that woman wants to carry to term is up to her seeing as it is her body.
Like mentioned above it also wouldn’t be killing a child as much as it is just expelling a few fertilized cells. My family coming from a religious standpoint, like many pro lifers believe that life begins at conception and therefore terminating the pregnancy would be killing a life and therefore sinning. Because of such when my older sister got pregnant at 16, rather than helping her with the abortion process because she was definitely too young to be having a child, they told her that she would have to have the child and they would help her with that instead.
I’m sure that’s the biggest instance that really cemented the idea of not getting pregnant young, but the most of all that abortion is not about sinning rather something used as a last resort for people who really cannot maintain a child.
I agree with the response above that it shouldn’t be about abortion control, but rather comprehensive sex education that way abortion is not even an actual decision that has to be made. A real life example actually happened in Colorado, where they started making birth control and IUDs more accessible and saw teen pregnancies and abortions lower because of such.
I am a strong believer that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but opinions are not applicable to situations that involve trying to tell someone how to run their own body. Our body, our choice.
Abortion is a very delicate topic. If the couple are in a serious committed relationship, I presume in most cases both parents tend to decide mutually whether to go for abortion or not. The problem occurs when women wants an abortion while a man does not – a very tricky scenario. The answer to this question depends on a variety of factors like health of the women, responsibility ownership of the child after birth, support from men in terms of both financial perspective as well as taking care of the child post birth, men’s attitude towards women and may be few others. If the health of the women is not well or the men is not going to support the child both from taking care of the child and financial perspective or the men has an abusive nature, it is a moot point even discussing this since abortion should be the way out whatsoever to fully protect the women. If the above is not the case but the women is not willing to undergo the 9 months of stress and hardship to deliver the child, responsible couple should ensure they don’t end up in such cases forcing them to have to decide this since it’s the women’s body and I believe in most countries, she would have the right to decide in terms of the overall decision making. If both men and women are equally not interested in bringing up the child post birth, while it may not bode well from the pro-life’s perspective, I think it is better for everyone involved to abort the child upfront itself. The mere reason for suggesting this is that uninterested women may not take care of their personal maternity health, which would harm the child. Having a child with defect would result into a painful life for the child eventually – which I believe everyone would agree is not what any of us would prefer.
Having seen a Planned Parenthood right around the corner from where I lived shut down, well it definitely gives perspective to this debate between pro-life and pro-choice. To see the chalk on the ground when walking by spelling out hateful nasty words, well it’s very sad the lengths at which people will go to express their views of hatred. As you talk above the question of if the man should have a say in the abortion, it does extend back to places where the father’s input made the final decision. Knowing this history as you present it women become less of individuals and more so incubators. Like you mentioned above how a fertilized egg versus a two-year-old, that puts into great perspective what pro-life individuals are arguing for. You make one of the biggest points where women die from abortions when self-induced outside of a medical facility. That childbirth can be fatal due to other complications. To say a woman cant have an abortion can mean a multitude of things and this post of yours touched on them greatly. It is so sad to see the way women have been treated. That their voice doesn’t matter when it comes to their body. That they lose their rights as an individual to a few cells inside their body. The toll and various aspects that go not only into childbirth but taking care of a child are not discussed by those who speak so confidently on what women should and shouldn’t be allowed to do. So when it comes down to the question of if a man should have a say in whether or not women can have an abortion in a loving relationship, well yes there should be a conversation but ultimately it is not his body nor is it his risk. He can express his views but that is as far as it may go. Women no undoubtedly should be the only ones to make that decision. If a man has trouble with his wife or significant other not bearing a child .. well that is a different issue between a man and a woman. This post touched on some really important subjects and I enjoyed the way you opened the doors for so many other conversations that add to this larger argument and conversation. Thanks!
You’re welcome.
Discussing this topic is very difficult because of the raw and fundamental emotions associated with it. My initial thought when reading this blog was, of course the man should get a say in determining the future of the baby as long as they are in a committed relationship. But what deems a committed relationship? And who gets to make to make that decision? After thinking about it I realize that ultimately I do feel like the woman should have the final say on what happens to her and her baby. Having a baby is a life altering and life threatening event. I do not feel any woman, or anyone for that matter, should be forced to go through that experience if they don’t want to. No woman should be a mother if she doesn’t feel ready to be a mother. I can see both sides of the argument, I feel compassion for a man who may be put in a difficult situation as a result of my beliefs but in the end the final decision should rest with the woman.
I agree with the author of this comment. It is clear and should be clear that a fertilized egg does not equal a person. Women are incubators for men that decide they want to have a baby. I understand that it takes two to make a baby, but its unrealistic putting telling women that men should have a say in what they do with their bodies. Men are so quick to ask a women to be on birth control but aren’t into seeking options for birth control just because of their gender. If gender roles and statistics weren’t a thing, then I could agree on the Male’s perspective in this post. But honestly, its usually left up to the how the baby is raised and taken care of. Women are usually the ones doing all of the baby work while men continue to live life as if they dont have children. Women are the ones who end up breast feeding and taking time out of their lives to make sure the kids are okay.
This post brought up several interesting points, some of which I never considered before. I have always been pro-choice, but some arguments from the pro-life side left me conflicted. One main point for pro-life is that a fertilized egg is an innocent life that is being taken away. I have always disagreed with this and the part where you mentioned a scenario that a breathing life would be chosen over a thousand fertilized eggs makes complete sense to me. My conflicts with the topic of abortion stemmed from the fact that men should have a say in the decision. It made sense to me that men have equal say, assuming that the man of the relationship has been good and treated the woman well. I know pregnancy is extremely tough on the woman’s body, but I guess I never thought about that much because I am yet to experience it. I am only in high school and the thought of pregnancy and its effect on my body is a far away thought. After reading your article, I now believe women have the final decision in this matter because of everything their body goes through during pregnancy and its effects on their careers. The gender gap for income grows because women have to stay home to take care of their babies in the early years while men go to work and advance in their careers. Women sacrifice a lot more for their babies, which is why they should have the final say.
I do think that in a healthy relationship the man should be able to voice his emotions, he is human after all and has the right to be heard, but in the end, it’s up to the woman to choose what she wants to do with her body. Having a baby is much more than just carrying a child, giving birth, and immediately falling in love. There are hormones, extreme changes in the body, and there could be permanent changes or damage.
I agree that restrictions don’t end abortions. It can lead to more deaths if women look for abortions that aren’t safe. That wouldn’t align with the beliefs of pro-lifers if they allow the mother and fetus to both die by taking away their access to medical attention. I think it is more important to educate people and not shame women for having sex, rather help them have safe sex. If women are safe and have access to affordable contraceptives, there won’t be women having frequent abortions do to be careless and uninformed.
I strongly agree with this post, a man should never have the last say about a woman’s body. I do agree with having a conversation with him but there should be no telling her what she can or can’t do regardless if he’s a “good-man”. It truly shocks me how some people think they can have control over their significant other or whoever’s bodies and decisions on what they do, especially when it comes to having a child. In a committed relationship, I also agree it should be a priority to have a conversation about protecting yourselves if neither of you are ready for a baby, for me personally when I got into my first committed relationship I made sure to have that talk with my significant other just to know where he’d stand if a situation like this ever came up. I started on birth control and was at first hesitant because of the whole “good girl” thing just because I was only 17 so I was a minor having to ask my mom and was worried about what she’d think. I fully support young girls getting on birth control if they are sexually active, again comes back to doing what they want to their own body!!
First off, I love the hypothetical about the Fire in a research clinic. It’s a great example of how the logic these people use doesn’t hold water in the real world.
It’s also a great point to bring up contraception in relation to this issue: In an ideal world, there would NOT be a conversation about the abortion. In an ideal world, both parties would have access to affordable, safe, and effective contraception; with no social stigma attached; preferably available in a yearly supply for $6.99 at Costco next to the gummy vitamins and gender neutral razors. And if somebody dropped the ball and missed a dose, they could always order a Plan-B Boost in their Pumpkin Smash Smoothie at Jamba Juice.
Ideally, you could assume that any accidental pregnancy was unwanted, and terminate freely – Because otherwise, you wouldn’t be taking contraception. The choice to have a child would be a conversation between two people, with the understanding that if one of them did not want to have a child, neither should be forced to conceive.
Unfortunately, that doesn’t seem to be what this man is arguing. Not even a little bit. He claims to simply want “a conversation,” but it appears that he is hiding his true wishes behind passive language, benevolent sexism, and ‘nice guy’ logic. Here are my thoughts on his argument.
Let’s drop out of our egalitarian utopia for a minute, and return to the humdrum, boring, depressingly misogynistic world in which we all have the misfortune to live. Even here, there is potential for a valid argument, a tiny gem of truth, hidden underneath this man’s mountain of deceitful prose. It’s understandable that a man with traditional values would, if his long term partner were to fall unexpectedly pregnant, want to discuss options. He certainly is 100% entitled to ASK if SHE would be interested and willing to go through a pregnancy for him, either to raise a child with him, or to allow him to raise it on his own. That would be a valid and understandable conversation. He is entitled to ASK, but that’s it.
When he says “[Men are] entitled to a conversation,” however, he means that men should be able to dictate what women do with their bodies. He’s looking for a foothold into the discussion; a ledge to stand upon, given to him out of respect for reasonable discourse, from which he can unzip his trousers and unleash a stream of misogyny and faulty logic on the world below. Now there are a few reasons I feel that way, I’ll try to go ahead and try to explain myself.
First off: He says “Men should have AT LEAST 45% say,” emphasis mine. There it is. That’s not a conversation he’s after, is it? That’s not a discussion. That’s aggressive. He’s searching for a power struggle and dictating terms thereof; presumably because he feels he would be able to dominate and assert his will if his opinion were to be weighted as nearly equal to any woman’s. He doesn’t want to listen, he wants to speak and be listened to.
Secondly: I can literally hear the condescension in my head when he says “Provided he has always treated the woman with respect.” Okay, call me crazy, but a man who “treats a woman with respect” doesn’t attempt to FORCE her through an unwanted, painful and potentially life threatening experience, that will at the VERY least disrupt her work, schooling , and social life for months, to satisfy his own desires. Is that what most people think respect is? Am I missing out on something here? I think we can all infer what he means by respect. It’s probably something more along the lines of “Has never physically abused her”, or maybe “Allows her to see her friends unsupervised every so often,” or maybe even “buys her tampons when she’s on her icky-icky girly-whirly no-sex time.”
Finally: “A baby should not be denied life.” Here’s the thing. If a man or woman is too out of touch with reality to understand the difference between a baby and a fetus, he should not be allowed a medium to express an opinion on this issue. ‘Fetus vs Baby’ is not a discussion. There is no room for a dissenting opinion here. It’s the flat-earth equivalent of human biology. There is the truth, and then there is deceitful and malevolent language, designed to manipulate emotions, which has no basis in scientific fact. Pandering to the ignorance of men like this, who let their emotions on these issues cloud their judgement, is insulting to the very fabric of reality. It lowers the level of discourse, distorts the truth, and has led to the horrifyingly dishonest world we live in, where fake news and faulty rhetoric are lauded, and calm rationalization has fallen by the wayside, cold and alone, shivering in the cold.
I hope I haven’t caused anyone any offense with my opinion.
Women have 100% right to do with their body what they wish. I do think that abortion is not birth control. But I do think abortion is a responsible option for those that need it. What is a need? My need is different than your need, it doesn’t have to be your need, it is my reality to the situation. My need may not make sense to you, your need may not make sense to me, but I am here in the moment now, having to make decisions about now, my life and how to survive in it. You are in your moment, in your life, making choices about how you will survive, it is your need alone. My need is mine alone. People do not have the right to tell other people what to do with their bodies. I try to sit on the other side and think about it from the male perspective and I would hope that before two people even commit to each other, they discuss having children. This is the first indicator in a relationship and your values and goals together for the future.
Reading through these comments a few things stand out. 1) Contraceptives, a right which BOTH parties have to use, not just the women’s responsibility but also to protect both from any STDs. It amazes me the amount of men who blame women, she who did use a contraceptive to prevent all the above, when the 1% fails, it is their fault. What about his 1% in the act? If it was his fault, why should the woman have to bare that responsibility if she was taking preparations herself to avoid it? 2) If men were able to give birth, imagine the amount of rights, rules, laws, signatures, witnesses, and blood oaths that women would have to adhere to for the risk of him getting pregnant, and then he would more than likely have all rights to say what happens to the pregnancy regardless of the women’s wishes. Remember, this is a man’s world. In 2014 $84 MILLION dollars was spent by the US Military for 1.87 million prescriptions, most of which were for Viagra. Viagra helps with one thing where as birth control helps multiple issues for women, not just to avoid getting pregnant. Men cannot say Viagra is for reproduction because there are infertility clinic options to assist them with that, let’s level the playing field. 3) Women are not here on Earth to just breed. Women are not mules and this is the problem still today, that women are looked at only to reproduce. I am a firm believer that nature will find a way regardless. There are so many children who are in need of adoption that do not have homes. Lack of population is not a problem.
Common sense is common sense. We as a planet cannot keep reproducing without taking care of our only home, there will not be any resources left. A good amount of people already don’t care to make necessary changes to ensure that Earth life continues, they have what they need now, but are helping destroy the future for the babies they don’t want aborted, for what? It isn’t a thought to make sure that animals don’t go extinct, that water stays plentiful, air is kept clean, but they will bark about abortion. What happens when our planet cannot sustain life? At some point a balance must be made that isn’t religious or political- instead it’s holistic in nature.
I completely disagree with the idea that men should have an equal say on whether the women have a baby or an abortion. I do think that the woman should talk to her partner (if in the picture) about her plans but that does not mean she is asking for permission. we are our own person and can make our own choices, we do not need anybody’s help especially when it comes to our bodies. I am not pro-life I am pro-choice, I believe it is the women’s decision to make whether or not she wants to have a baby. I also believe that many times the woman has really strong reasons why she wants to stop the pregnancy and having laws that make it illegal or people thinking that you are a monster for it just makes it much harder. many times women are looking to end a pregnancy that was the cause of rape and it is not fair that after she was robbed of her dignity she is also denied a choice.
I agree that in many cases women will go to any extent to end the pregnancy if that’s what she wants to do, putting her life at risk in the process. if “pro-lifers” insist on doing what they are doing to close places such as planned parenthood they must know that in their attempts to save a fetus they might be killing a woman. instead, we should be fighting so that women have places where they can go an learn about the options they have once they are ready to be sexually active.
in reality, those who are pro-life are conservatives because I do agree that they all don’t agree with all the same things such as abortion and health care for all.
First impression, given the context of the situation, I do believe that the male partner is entitled to a conversation about abortion. Second, that percentage is a little off in my opinion; I believe that a woman has more than 55% of the decision to carry through with the procedure if she wants to. Sure, the man contributes his sperm and is one half of the relationship, but with the gravity of the decision, the personal health risks involved, and the inherent judgement from the patriarchy, a conversation is all a man should get.
The segment about how “pro-lifers aren’t really pro-life” got my wheels turning, especially given the current state of everything that’s going on right now. The reality is, the people who claim to be “pro-life” tend to be extremely hyprocritical in the sense that “life” very clearly encapsulates our entire ecosystem and all of the indirect causalities and relationships that are embedded within that. Ironically, to be “pro-life” translates into valuing procreation over quality and sustainability of life itself.
Yeah, nowadays we have so called pro lifers wanting to open up all the businesses so that more people will be likely to die from COVID-19 – and notably — risking the lives of our healthcare workers Who keep everyone else alive.
Such hypocrisy!
I don’t believe men should have an equal say in whether a woman has an abortion. Yes, the couple should have an open discussion about it, but at the end of the day her body her choice. Men are not the ones who will have to go through the risks, body changes, and career halts that come from having a baby. People will say that a baby should not be denied its life, but I say that a woman should not be denied the life that she wants for herself and the career she worked hard to build simply because she is expected to reproduce. Women are constantly manipulated into thinking that that they should be or should want to be mothers. Some will even wonder whether something is wrong with them if they don’t want to be. When they should be told that a fulfilling life does not only come from reproducing and it is okay to seek it in other ways. I completely agree that restrictions on abortion only do more harm than good. If a woman is going to have an abortion, we want her to do it in a safe environment with medical professionals. By restricting abortion, we are forcing these women to either live a life that they never wanted or to seek alternate illegal routes that put her life in risk.
Being a single mother that was in a ” Good relationship” from my experience I feel that it is the woman’s choice %100. I thought that way before becoming a mother because the position of a mother for that majority of a woman is a lifetime appointment. They are fully committed and biological committed because they are the food source for the babies and the record keeper for the doctors, dentist, and all the other appointments that the child would have. It also takes a huge toll on the mental health of the woman because of her body, emotions, social life has changed forever and she is responsible to keep this little human alive and healthy while still trying to be a good partner. If a woman tells you that she is not ready to have a baby BELIEVE HER!!
Because she has gone through the pros and cons about a million times in her heard and I am sure it wasn’t an easy decision to make because she will live with it forever.
If the guy would like to be a single father then maybe he could look into a surrogate to carry the egg or find a way to it transfers to a lab. There are so many options today that if he wanted to keep that embryo and the mother agreed to it. But if there were no options, it’s her body and it’s always her decision.
I absolutely agree with this post. I took it beyond my self to actually learn the benefits of stem cells and the research of it. Turns out, using human tissue obtained from an abortion has saved millions of lives. My argument in this area is that a pro lifer is going to disagree regardless. You can offer putting the fertilized egg in the waste….or you can save lives with it. But then I think, many pro lifers wouldn’t acknowledge that statement. When it comes to the mans decision of abortion, its a tug of war with my opinions. I do believe it should be discussed between the partners. I also feel as if you are going to be in a stable relationship, you should have it figured out whether you are ready to have children or not. If the women has made a decision for abortion, the man must understand. If he can not take consideration of something like that, he is no man worth having a child with. Abortion is not an easy thing for a woman to go through, but its due to deeper things then “not being ready to have a baby”. There are underlying health conditions that a woman may have, there are mental conditions and many more. If a woman is unfit for parenthood and she is sure of that, there should be no further discussion.
I agree out of the respect of honesty, if a you and your partner have a healthy & committed relationship there should be honest communication with one another. Only in this circumstance do I agree that a woman should maybe (CONSIDER NOT OBLIGE) to having a conversation with their partner about the situation ( that of being pregnant and/or considering abortion). Now, when it comes to the decision on how to handle such situation and what actions should the woman decide to take, that is on her, unless she asks for her partners OPINION. But, never should a woman feel obligated to consult a decision or a situation like pregnancy or abortion to anyone if they don’t wish to. At the end of the day, women who are found in such situations have so many life factors to consider, and everyone is under completely different circumstances. That means that not every woman who gets pregnant is ready to bring a child into the world or wants to, and that is completely okay! Whatever a woman decides to do with their body should be nobody’s business but their own. It is their bodies we are talking about after all.
There are definitely some valid points here and I appreciate everyone’s perspective. I agree that a woman’s body is her own and she should ultimately have the say, however I don’t agree with women using abortion as a form of contraception. I’m not saying this is the case in all circumstances, but my brother’s old roommate had a girlfriend that had 3 abortions because she was careless and reckless with her life decisions and she didn’t want to be on contraception, like the pill or IUD. She said that she just didn’t like being on them, even though she had the means and the knowledge. I believe once you decide to become sexually active, you have to make responsible decisions and understand the consequences that come with it (both good and bad). I’m strictly referring to consensual sex, not rape or gestational complications. I believe that a fertilized egg, by many, may only be viewed as a zygote, but it’s the beginning of life and if the woman isn’t prepared to either raise the baby or give the baby up for adoption once it’s born, than she shouldn’t be having sex in the first place. I’m not saying never have sex unless you want a baby, however we live in a society in which we have many resources at our disposal for contraception and as women we need to be smart about it. Science has come a long way and contraception is highly effective if used properly. In my opinion there are circumstances that would warrant an abortion such as rape or an unsafe pregnancy, but I think that women tend to use it casually as well. To say that “Pro-lifers aren’t really pro-life” based upon some generalized opinions and not facts, is really just putting pro-lifers in a box and stereotyping. Pro-lifers also have concerns for elderly, poverty, climate change, etc.. To reiterate, I don’t agree that men should have control over a woman’s body, however women shouldn’t be careless with their bodies. People often forget that there are also women in position of power who are responsible for making and/or changing laws regarding abortion, granted it is still very much a patriarchal society.
I completely agree with this post, just because a woman can become pregnant, doesn’t mean she wants to or can even handle the pregnancy. For a man to try to dictate a woman’s life and body is so ludicrous to me. If there’s a committed relationship, sure, a conversation at least would be nice, but at the end of the day, nobody should be forced into carrying and caring for a child that was not wanted in the first place. Why would you want to do that to a child anyway? Everyone has a right to their opinion, but that doesn’t mean it should be forced onto others. There are time limits on abortion services for a reason, that is so the pregnancy can be terminated before the fertilized egg develops enough to become an actual human being. All women deserve the availability of contraceptives and abortion services. Studies have even shown that when there is more availability of birth control, there is a lower rate of abortions. Women should never feel ashamed to take precautionary measures to keep themselves safe.
Every time when I think about abortion, a horrible picture will pop up in my head. Although abortion is not 100% considered as murder, miscarriage is still very harmful to the mother or woman’s body. As mentioned in the article, if you have an abortion in a regular and legal hospital, you can at least ensure that the woman can survive safely without harming the woman’s lower body. Unfortunately, some places are very opposed to abortion, so that some women have to leave their places to go to the black market for abortion surgery. Since it is an illegal method, so it is difficult to ensure the safety of their life. If there is any accident that occurs during the surgery, it will be hard to sue them or ask them for responsibly, because it is so shameful to do miscarriage that you might not even be brave to bring this top upfront. I very much agree that abortion is illegal, because only by enacting the law will make people pay more attention to pregnancy or sex education and learn how to protect themselves. Otherwise, most people will feel that it is fine for them to be pregnant and do abortions to fix the problem. Eventually, they will lose the idea of how important life is. If the family is happy, if there is enough money and time, I believe no one will take away their children for no reason. Unless the timing of the woman’s pregnancy is wrong. For example, the woman is pregnant unexpectedly, is a single mother, does not have enough money, or the man is not sufficiently responsible. But sometimes when both parties are happy, they still have the idea of taking away their children’s life. Then at this time, I think it is not right for the woman to decide to have a miscarriage alone. I understand how hard it is for women to go through the pregnancy, and take the responsibilities after it. I think the woman must tell the man her ideas and negotiate together, and the two should give the same conclusion. Because the man has the right to make choices for his children. Taking care of a child is not one person’s job, but two or more together.
Abortion is such a hard and varied topic. In my honest opinion if you are having sex within a regular relationship then you should have discussed the fact that no contraception is 100% effective and that you both should agree or be aware of the other persons feelings. I personally do not believe that I could ever undergo an abortion due to my own principles, but when I have brought this up before in a long term relationship (before I was ready to raise children and saw adoption as an option) my partner said that he would prefer an abortion as they would not be able to stand knowing that any child running around may be his. We were both very aware of the rigidity of each others stance, but I ultimately saw it as my choice – not his.
To bring a child into the world is to risk your life, your prospects in your job or study, you risk many relationships if others disagree with your choice. No one can look at a man and imediately know that they had sex which resulted in a baby. Their emotions may change, but otherwise nothing for them does. I do not see it as a 45% their choice, they are entitled to an opinion but not a direct choice. In this way it must be awful to be a man and be out of control of your own destiny in this way. However, women often feel that they have no say or control over their bodies and their choices in these situations. Edcuation should be in place to keep people informed that to have sex means there is potential for a baby, EVERYTIME you have sex. Abstaining as a teaching tool is not adequate or realistic, the teenage brain was made to rebel and push boundaries. However, abortion is also not a form of birth control. It is dangerous, expensive and plays a big toll emotionally.
Abortion is not an easy topic for anyone. I believe that based on the circumstances that they are a healthy relationship, a conversation should at least be considered, for the sake of the relationship. Not only is the baby an important factor, but the opinion of the father is important, if not, how could the relationship possibly be healthy? There is a lot more to think about. Did the couple have a conversation over this, about the future if they were sexually active they must have known the outcome. It is so much deeper than opinions or decisions. It is considering your partner’s feelings. At the end of the day, the woman is the one who will go through it emotionally and physically. If the partner is not supportive of this, then I believe it will cause a lot of pain to the relationship. Abortion is a very complex topic for anyone, it is defintietly not easy for anyone. And experience that can either support or hurt the relationship.
It is not rocket science to allow freedom to both the partners in a marriage or a committed relationship whether or not to conceive or abort. Both the female and the male should have an equal say.
Often the society and family elders, driven by patriarchal thoughts, force a woman (and a man as well) to conceive, stop abortions and have babies. This puts tremendous pressure on both the partners, not just the female alone. Patriarchy doesn’t seem to care about the financial implications and the mental pressure the couple has to go through. Even if both the partners want a baby, preventing the abortion of an unhealthy foetus spells catastrophe not just for the family, but also the baby who is about to be born, for the entirety of his/her life.
More than persuasion, I believe legislation is the only way to make sure that abortions are legal and allowed (of course, within the limits of health and safety aspects of the mother)..
And when abortion is illegal desperate girls and women try to do it themselves and too often die. Laws have little effect on the abortion rate.
I meant legislate to make abortion legal.
Ok but laws prohibiting abortion don’t do a very good job of stopping it. Women are just more likely to die trying to do it themselves.
Precisely. They won’t do a good job, because basically, such laws don’t make sense.
If come tomorrow, the Government decides to ban sexual intercourse for all ages of people, do you think they will be able to do a good job?
Thanks for your thoughts on this 🙂
My pleasure Doctor.. ☺️
Speaking as a woman I don’t feel that the man should have equal rights to decide whether or not a woman should or not should not get an abortion. I feel that it should be completely left up to the woman because it is her body. Pregnancy and the act of giving birth is risky and could possibly lead to complications that a woman would have to deal with for the rest of her life. Men on the other hand simply provide sperm and expect to have control over a woman’s body? That doesn’t make sense. A woman is entitled to her body. What she chooses to do with it is no one else’s business because in the end she is the one will have to pay the consequences of that come with pregnancy and giving birth. I also would go as far as to say that a woman doesn’t even need to have a conversation with her partner or anyone about what she chooses to do with her body.
I cannot believe that in Georgia their governor, Kemp, signed into law an abortion ba that forbids abortion from about two weeks after a missed period. The law actually states “recognize unborn children as natural persons.” That is crazy to me. If an ectopic pregnancy occurs, that can mean death for the pregnant woman. It is so obvious that these men in charge do not understand women’s bodies, at ALL, and yet are making laws that take total control over their bodies. They are so ignorant that they do not even care to read up on the topic, do a little quick research, but that’s just me asking too much, isn’t it?
They don’t believe in science, it is incredibly difficult to get it through their thick skulls that this is not only a violation of women’s rights, but you are violating a woman’s own right to her life! Women are the ones who get pregnant, if anything, the scale is tipped to her side to decide. I would say, the man gets a say, but his motive is key: does he want the baby because of religion, long-held beliefs, does he want to have the final say? If any of this is true, the man loses his validity due to ignorance. This ignorance disqualifies him to any say in the matter, unless he is open to listening to new opinions (and facts).
I worry About the misogyny out there.
The topic of abortion becomes so tricky and more complicated than people think. I appreciate the multiple viewpoints that this blog has to offer because it offers a perspective of reality. I agree that a conversation is important between a man in a woman at the expense of a child, however, ultimately I believe that it is the women’s choice. When it comes to laws restricting abortions I believe that this is not the solution to reduce abortion statistics. To reiterate what the blog states that, “ I’m against restrictions on abortion because they don’t affect the level of abortion very much — but they do cause more women to die.” This perspective is so important in understanding the situation as a whole. There’s a cause-effect relationship to everything and a lot of people with strong opinions on this subject forget this aspect entirely. Further education on this is necessary for creating a fair outlook on this topic.
I think the points being made as to why men should have a say in this situation is understandable. I had the exact conversation with a male coworker and I agreed but I told him you cannot pressure your girlfriend into keeping the baby because it is her body, she is the one having to carry the baby and probably doesn’t want to go through that, and that he shouldn’t have to try to change her mind. It’s a gut feeling for her to not go through with having the baby and it’s not fair to be pressured into having a baby or vice versa. I’m kind of in the middle for this situation because if you are in a loving and strong heterosexual relationship, you should both talk over your decisions and both be considerate of each option, but the male should really have in mind that it’s her own reproductive right.
I don’t see anything wrong with the conversation but the ultimate decision needs to be hers, and without pressure.
I believe that each and every person should have the right to decide what they will do with their body, much like people have the right to live free. If a man and women are in a committed and safe relationship I do believe that there should be a conversation but a woman should not be pressured to keep and unborn child. I really loved your example of pro-lifers saving fertilized eggs v a 2 year old. I would like to add to that by saying; since most of the people would say the 2 year old I would ask why? do those eggs no longer matter? they are fertilized, does that make them human? I believe that a the reason they would save the 2 year old is because the child is BORN. So how it the same? why is a 2 year old the same as having a fertilized egg inside of a women body? I’ll tell you, it’s not! The egg is not yet developed, is it just like a chicken egg in a shell.
Yes, fertilized eggs and actual people are not morally equivalent. And a lot of people don’t get that until you ask them these kinds of questions.
How come you refuse to discuss babies about to be born, instead taking the stance of characterising the issue as only about “fertilized eggs”? You still haven’t answered my question, what is the moral difference between a baby 5 minutes prior to birth and 5 minutes after birth?
My point is that between fertilization and birth you don’t have a moral equivalence to an actual born human being.
I’ll give you an example. My sister-in-law ended up in the hospital during a pregnancy and her husband was told he might have to decide whether to abort to save his wife’s life if she ended up in a coma. He had always been against abortion. Until then. And then he decided he would rather abort a baby that was near-term to save his wife’s life. People (including him) loved his wife but no one knew the baby yet. The number of people who would be harmed by her death was much greater than if the fetus were aborted. If they had had children before those children would have lost their mother. And they could always try again for another baby.
Let’s just rip off the band-aid here. Men should have ZERO say in what a woman is to do with her body. Yes, everybody is entitled to their own opinion. But no, men are not entitled to the actions of a womans body. One might say “But it’s his child too.” Okay and? Is it his body? No? Then it doesn’t matter. If a man feels so entitled to his sperm being born then he should be responsible enough to 1. Not get the wrong woman pregnant and 2. Find a partner who is willing to let a male have a say in what should happen to her body. And I completely agree with Jay. Anyone can be anti-choice. Just don’t be irresponsible and impregnate someone with different views. I also must agree that most “pro-lifers” are the same ones who vote to keep refugees out and keep children separated from their families at the border.
I agree if a couple is in a serious, committed relationship the male should have a say in the decision process but I also agree that the woman does hold more responsibility carrying the baby (assuming that is the case). Women face many challenges when they choose to carry a baby. Most women HAVE to change their lifestyle while pregnant and even more so the closer you come to the due date. Women have to take time off of work, change their diet to feed two, and are restricted from doing a list of activities. When a woman is carrying a child, their life is relatively turned upside down for the time being and the main focus is the health of the child.
The part regarding pro-lifers not actually being pro-life is very interesting to me because I have never looked at it that way. Of course, not all pro-lifers think the same way and have the same beliefs but the generalization is relatively valid.
I want to start off by saying that both sides have really good view points and back it up well. I agree that IF and only if the couple is in a healthy relationship there should at least be a conversation because a father cannot have a child without a mother to bear it. However, I do not agree that all fathers get a say, because it can go many ways. For example it can be a rape victim, someone unable to maintain the child, a mother knowing her child will be sick and not wanting it to suffer in life, and many others. At the end women are the ones that are going through so much more with bearing a child. That is why I believe there should be conversations before the situation happens. Men can talk to women before getting into a committed relationship and couples should get to know whether they want to have children in a future or not, which can avoid so many disagreements later on. Regardless, I believe women get the final say. I do not say that because I am a woman myself but because if it was my sister or my niece in the situation I know I would be on their side no matter what they wanted. It is their bodies and at the end of the say they are the ones carrying a child for 9 months.
My friend used to mess around with this guy who absolutely HATED abortion. Like really despised the thought of it. He literally said that if he got a girl pregnant and they were to get an abortion, that he would kill her so she can see how it felt. Like wHAT??? What kind of mentality is that? First of all, why would you want to bring a child into the world If you’re going to have these dumb violent thoughts? Yes, I agree that if you’re in a SAFE, TRUSTFUL, and HEALTHY relationship with your partner, then I think both should come up with the solution, if they can work as a team. But on the other case, if you’re like my friend and the guy where they weren’t even dating at all, or in another situation that may be abusive, then there’s really no point in saying anything. The guy in the post even said that “women bear more costs” when it comes to a baby, so why would a woman want to take that big responsibility when she didn’t even want to, just because the guy wants to see the child on the weekends. I think in both these situations and in every situation possible, the woman who is pregnant should get to decide to what is happening with HER BODY, because it is in fact, HER BODY.
If men were given the amazing power of being able to produce life I wonder how many laws we would have in affect now about protecting their ideas and ideologies, if they were the ones who had the choice of abortion.
During my time as a volunteered translator for Planned Parenthood the idea of a woman having the last say in her body was always there with me and it grew stronger during my short time there. I heard of many cases where some of the women got pressured into not going through with the abortion process by family members, life partners even the shocking greeters of the “pro -lifers” outside of the clinics yelling profanities in the name of God made them feel guilty and pressured.
I saw the fear in their faces when I was talking to many of them fear of knowing that they weren’t ready to raise a child and the guilt of making the wrong choice, many would say why they don’t use contraception if they are not ready well would you be surprised to find out many contraception’s are only 99% accurate its says it on the box usually, But back to my point many of the women who made that difficult decision because In my experience it was difficult, I never saw a woman walking in a saying I want an abortion like it was a, I saw women scared, battling with themselves, feeling like they were the worst thing in the world for not wanting to have a baby at that point in their life , I must mention some of this babies weren’t created in a conceptual way also! You will be surprised if you actually read the stats of how many women end up being raped or molested in the United States and besides that horrible trauma imagine having to go to see a doctor to make a decision about your life and in some states not EVEN HAVING THE OPTION.
If the women aren’t ready to bear a child well I feel the men should listen, all human-beings feelings matter but just like the actual act of sex, the decision of a baby should be consensual.
As women we know our bodies and state of mind more than anyone else we know how impactful this event could be for us so please respect our choices as we are usually deeply in tuned with what is best for us.
Thought experiments that switch gender are always interesting. And thank you for sharing about your experience with this.
” all human-beings feelings matter ”
Except the baby’s, presumably.
Fetuses don’t have feelings. That’s part of the point. Embryos and fetuses don’t have moral equivalence to actual human beings.
“Fetuses don’t have feelings.”
So what are you saying? That 1 minute prior to birth, it doesn’t have feelings, and then magically 1 minute after birth it acquires feelings? How does that work exactly? Or maybe you’re also a supporter of “post birth abortion” too?
You said that I said (or someone said) ”all human-beings feelings matter” And then you added “Except the baby’s, presumably.”
People don’t really get things like hurt feelings until they are a little older. Embryos in fetuses definitely don’t have feelings that can get hurt.
Regarding late term abortion (no one is for killing babies after they are born – that’s a myth created on the right wing), When it’s that late, it is a baby that was very much wanted and those are only done when the mother‘s life or health is at risk.
I do agree a conversation should be had in regards to the future of a pregnancy in which both the man and the woman should express their thoughts and opinions. I also agree that the man should be able to express his opinion and thoughts on the matter considering he is involved in the situation as well. However, in the end it is the woman’s choice because it really affects her the most. I liked the point mentioned about the “equal say”. Unfortunately, it is hard to say that “equal say” exists in these situations since the woman is the one who actually bears the physical effects and dangers in a pregnancy. Many people may argue that this possible child is an equal part of each parent, which is completely true. However, realistically, we must think about who holds the most obligation and responsibility when it comes to the pregnancy and that is the women. So, the final choice should be on her terms.
Wow, another strong blog entry. This one is very personal to me because I’ve thought about having an abortion when I feared I was pregnant by someone who, yes, I like, but didn’t think was “good father” material. As it turns out, I was never pregnant, but for that one month of uncertainty, I debated back and forth whether I should tell him of the possibility that I might be pregnant. I often thought that if my test results came out positive, I would need to go get an abortion and struggled with, “do I tell him or not?” A big part of me thought that I should of course tell him because a) he wanted a child and b) he was the father-to-be (only not really because I wasn’t pregnant). However, I knew that he wasn’t the best person to have a kid with because of his job and his substance abuse issues, so here I was, NOT wanting to bring a baby into this world with someone I knew wouldn’t be a right father.
I think this topic is a very difficult topic, but in the end I do believe it is the woman’s choice, and only the woman’s choice whether she wants to have an abortion or not.
Thank you for sharing about your experience with this.
I believe that the choice to have an abortion belongs to the woman. She is the one who has to face all the pain, consequences and stress of carrying and having the baby. I understand the male perspective that they feel as if they should have the right to the decision as well, but truth be told it’s the woman who has to face the pain and troubles of having the baby. Women are the most at risk. Anything can happen during child birth, and the woman does face the possibility of dying. Many women choose to have abortions because they are not financially, mentally or physically stable to have a baby. This decision should be respected. A man or anyone else should not feel entitled to a woman’s body simply because they were allowed access during sex. Sex was consensual, pregnancy was accidental, and for that reason women should be allowed to make their own decision.
When I think of the word abortion, it makes me think about women and if she is making the decision or is their significant other making it for them? I honestly believe that if a woman is pregnant she should have a conversation with the person who would be the father of the baby. They need to come to an agreement whether they want to abort or not. Both the female and male have a say in this, they just need to figure out a way to agree with each other. There are times where the father is not in the picture and this is where the mother has to make the decision all on her own.f the man doesn’t want the baby but the woman does then they can come to an agreement where he does not have to be in the picture but will have to help out financially. Many people are against abortion but I am not sure whether I agree or disagree with his, the reason why is because many people are not in a great or safe environment so it would probably be better not to bring a baby into it.
I think conversations are good. But if the two can’t come to agreement she needs to make the final decision because she bears the larger burden in undergoing the pregnancy, giving birth, and typically in terms of supporting the baby once it’s born since it’s more common for men to leave their children than for women to do the same thing.
After reading this blog many different thoughts came to mind, especially having people that are very close to me being on each side of the spectrum.I believe that it really depends on the situation of whether a man should have a say or not have any say when it comes to having an abortion. Ultimately my opinion on this matter is that it really is up to the woman, and here is why i believe this: I have one friend who has had an abortion because she felt that she was too young, and she had gotten pregnant by someone who wasn’t “a good man.” In this situation she did what she felt was best for her and because he wasn’t “a good man” she did not want to bring a child into this world having to be around him for the rest of her life or have that be her child’s father. In another instance I have a friend who had gotten pregnant back to back from the age of 18-20 and she doesn’t believe in having an abortion so she did go through with both of these pregnancies, and she would’ve done so even if the “good guy” that she had a healthy relationship didn’t want too. I truly believe that it’s her choice on whether or not she wants to continue with the pregnancy because this baby is going to be growing inside of her, she has to carry it to term and go through labor, and ultimately the mother is doing most of the work through the actions of her body.
when I read this blog a lot of things started flowing through my head. the author had good points, but I was still stuck in the middle of this debate. As of now I feel as though the father should have a say so in whether his future child lives or dies depending on the situation. If he has been supportive and loving and taking good care of his partner than I think he should most definitely have a say in whether or not there is going to be an abortion. Yes women are the ones who have to go through the pains in the pregnancy and the affects after, but a baby is 50% of each person. its part of both people so for a women to make that decision on her own without hearing her partner out is wrong. I feel as though it is hard to come to who is wrong or right. you may have a case where the women wants an abortion but the man doesn’t or the man wants her to have an abortion but she does not want to. I feel as though someone will lose in either scenario. No matter who is the one going through the pain or carrying the child I still feel as though it should be talked about and a conclusion that both people are happy with is made. I feel as though many are stuck on the fact that the women carry the child so they have more say so, but no one takes the time to think about how the father might feel. a child is a part of two people not just one no matter who is carrying the child.
Sure, both partners have 50% in creating the baby. But that’s not all there is to it. One person has to go through all of the burden of carrying and delivering the baby, and encounter the higher chance of death in doing so. Since it’s not equal responsibility, the person who does have higher responsibility and burden, including a higher chance of death, herself, must have final say.
Sometime, abortion will become illegal again, because all the people who think it should be legal are having less children, and we live in a democracy. Conservatives have 41% more children than leftists, so it’s just a matter of time until the math plays out.
Conservatives do have more children but on the plus side most children grow more liberal overtime. Look how liberal the young generation is.
It’s well known that people become more conservative with age. Why you would say something so clearly wrong, is baffling. Also, Gen-Z is more conservative than millenials.
The effect of self-imposed taking yourself out of the gene pool takes time to work through the system.
Nope. Both millennials and gen Z are much more liberal than prior generations: more gender equal, care about racially equality, less homophobic. They increasingly prefer socialism to capitalism too. Look it up.
Boomers are also more of all of these things (or less) compared to older generations.
Men should be allowed to have a say in abortion but only to a certain extent, Even though it is his baby he doesn’t have to go through the painful side of being pregnant. Which in many cases are back pains, migraines, not being able to do daily activities, having to take more cautious, etc. I do agree that the mother needs to have a conversation 0f their situation and should talk about their pros and cons. A man shouldn’t have 45% in the decisions they should have a 20% say in what happens. There shouldn’t be any restriction not even having to have the signature of the father. Having restrictions may lower the percentage of abortions but would rais the percentage of women’s deaths. Also, many people who claim to be pro-life really rent pro-life. When it comes down to actually save someone’s lives. This is ironic because they would go to any length to r prove them being pro-life but in reality, all they wanna do is be in control of women.
The first issue I take with the man’s argument is with the quote “after all the point of life is to have offspring.” I take issue with that as the point of life is what you make of it, not whether to have children or not. What does that say about those that chose to be child free? Does their life lack purpose because they are raising children or having offspring? There is also the argument about overpopulation that implying one’s purpose in life is to procreate. There are too many people in this world as it is. My other argument would be that thinking in that way, if he believes that his life is only given purpose by having offspring, then it ignores the woman’s thoughts on abortion and what her purpose in life is. It is only focusing on what he wants and needs and not on the woman and her wants and needs. There absolutely needs to be a conversation about the fate of their child, but again I take issue with the idea that if a man is a “good man” that he is due 45% of the deciding vote. The idea of a “good man” is very subjective and what one person considers good another might consider a monster. What if he only hits her behind closed doors? Or he isn’t physically abusive but is mentally or verbally? Where does the burden of deciding if he is a good man lie? Is it with him? Or with her?
I agree with the author whole heartedly on the risk of restrictive abortions. It takes away any power women have over their own body. Having a baby isn’t an easy thing and it is mentally and physically taxing. Also, putting the restriction that a woman can only get an abortion with the father’s permission is ludicrous. What if he is abusive? What if he wants her to have a baby so that he can continue to control her? There are numerous factors to consider when denying someone an abortion. A child is a lifelong cost and women deserve the right to decide whether they want to bare that cost.
I also agree with the author about education about pregnancy and abortion. If abortion restrictions are put in place then there must be education to prevent pregnancy and there must be access to birth control. You can’t just tell people not to have sex and turn your back and assume God will tell teens to quick doing what teens will do. You can’t just turn your back and assume everyone will use contraception without education about what contraception is. If you want less abortions than you should educate people about safe sex so that less pregnancies will occur. In the end though it is a woman that bares most of the responsibility if she has a child so it should be up to the woman to determine whether she will carry that child to term or not. It is her body and it should absolutely be her choice.
After reading this article, I still have the same opinion that I did before I started reading, that the woman should have a final say in what she wants to do to her body. I will acknowledge and agree with the guy from the beginning of the article, where the man should be entitled to a conversation. I do believe that out of respect, that a conversation should happen between the couple, but ultimately the woman should have a final say in what she wants to do because she is the one that is going to have to be carrying a baby for around 9 months. I never really thought about the idea that restrictions do not stop abortion until reading this article. After reading, it does make sense how much we as a society are putting woman in danger by not giving them the proper resources due to tight restrictions on abortions. Who should be able to tell someone what they can’t and can do to their body. It just fathoms me that people think that they should be able to stop woman from having an abortion and telling woman what procedures they can do with their bodies when it is none of their business. People are entitled to their opinion, but I feel that we as a society should not even try to ban abortion, but there should always be resources for woman who may want them.
I agree.
I have always thought the the “pro-life” side of things was incredibly lucky in being able to coin their slogan in such a way. As discussed in the blog, being “pro-life” is only about abortions not other things. I have never met a woman who just woke up and decided it would be a fun idea to get an abortion. I think women who decided abortion is the right choice, have gone through a lot and the choice isn’t usually easy. My best friend became pregnant at age 15, even though she was taking a contraceptive pill regularly. Luckily, she easily had access to a Planned Parenthood where she was guided through this tough decision. We were in the first semester of sophomore year, having a baby would have ended many of the possibilities in her life. My friend didn’t “want” an abortion, but it was the only good choice in her situation. I don’t believe the abortion rights debate is “pro-choice vs. pro-life”, I think it’s “pro-choice” and anti-choice. It is possible to believe that having an abortion isn’t the right, and still be “pro-choice”. Anti-abortionists can be pro-choice. But “pro-life” campaigners are really just anti-women’s right to make choices.
“I have never met a woman who just woke up and decided it would be a fun idea to get an abortion.”
Oh they are out there, don’t doubt it.
You left a link that didn’t look legit. The idea that an abortion is no sexual turn on makes no sense. Though some who want to control women’s bodies would try to make you believe it.
“My Body My Choice” is a slogan used for pro-choice advocates, but what some pro-lifers fail to understand is that it does not mean there should not be a conversation between two people in a committed relationship, or even that women LIKE having abortions. It must be unenjoyable because it is a very invasive procedure, though some women do not have any other choice. It’s a last option for most, it is the last option available when contraceptives like birth control or condoms fail, or when there was a lack of contraceptives used. I personally believe there is a huge fallacy within the term “pro-life” because it puts the life of a not-yet-existent being above the life of the woman carrying the unborn child. I also think that there should be no justification needed when it comes to having an abortion. Pro-choice advocates will often ask questions like “what if the child was conceived from rape and she does not want it?” or “what if she was only in middle school and made a mistake?” Questions like these actually insinuate that the case for abortions should be once in a blue moon, an anomaly, when the truth is a woman should be able to terminate the pregnancy as long as one condition is met: she does not want a child. Not just in the case where the health of either the baby or the mother in compromised, not just in the case where a woman does not have the means to support the child, but simply when she does not want to have a child. If pro-life advocates were being honest with themselves, they would realize the only reason they want the woman to keep the child is to see her suffer and be reminded of a mistake they made.
“It would be a shame for a guy to have his baby taken away from him because the woman didn’t want to grow the baby inside of her.” I think this depends on conversations that were had prior to becoming pregnant. There are many factors. Has he considered any health risks, complications that may have been discovered once she found out she was pregnant, etc? It is absolutely his right to discuss and support, even disagree with the decision of having the child. Maybe, I am looking at the emotional aspect of the man losing his child and how heart wrenching that must be if in fact he wanted the child. The thing that is troubling is that sometimes a conversation turns into persuasion. Even the whole “he’s a good guy” comment is evasive because how many times have we witnessed, I thought he was a good guy, or once the baby was here, he didn’t want me anymore because I wasn’t fun… bottomline is childrearing changes the couple, no matter how committed the relationship is. At the end of the day, if the “good guy” that wanted the “say” leaves, she is left to figure it out regardless … ultimately, it’s the woman’s body that has to house the child. So therefore, it’s her decision.
I certainly agree with the idea that Pro-Life is just a blanket term for the continued control over a woman’s body. I am in agreement with the idea that both parties ought to have an extensive discourse over what should be done and that the male at least have his opinions weighed in on, but the final choice would be in the female as she is subject to the physical rigors of childbearing and labor. It’s still a very sensitive subject, but women should have the right to choose. The post acknowledges the potential dangers of childbirth and how abortion may be necessary to save a life. If a pregnancy is the result of a rape or unintentional, then choice is important because the alternative could lead to greater trouble. A child may be brought into a broken home, to those who are unable or unwilling to support them, or simply abandoned. The idea that Abortion rights would lead to promiscuity and unsafe sex is an unfounded one used to twist opinion on the matter. Women should have the right of choice, but should still consider their partners wishes.
Yes, I do believe she should take conderastion of his feelings, but ultimately it’s the woman choice. She is the one who is going to have to deal with the pregnancy and he doesn’t know how her body is going to react to the pregnancy sense everyone is different. I think if he really wants the baby and she agrees to carry it, he should ask himself if he is fully ready to be responsible for it. For example, if she does chose to carry it, but in the agreement, is that he gets full custody and she has nothing to do with the baby (because you can’t force someone to care for a child they told you from the start they didn’t want it) would he able to care for it? I understand that yes, ultimately the guy did help make the child but in the beginning it’s not a baby yet and at the end of the day, women are the one making the sacrifice with our bodies when we get pregnant, they are some women that have died at childbirth? I think when a woman is ready to raise a human she wouldn’t have doubts in her mind, but it’s much easier to say “yes, I want a baby” then to actually be ready for a baby.
First off, I really appreciate how the man asked his question and expressed his opinion. He wasn’t does trying to start an argument on the topic, but rather have a mature and civilized conversation about abortion. I do agree that when it comes to the decision of whether or not to get an abortion the father does have a right to express his feelings and opinions about it. Saying that I don’t think that just being in a healthy relationship is a good enough reason to not have an abortion. You need to consider how financially stable you are if you can afford to have a child. I think that talking about it is the healthiest thing to do, but ultimately it should be the woman’s decision.
This is such a simple concept to me, it’s a woman’s body it’s a woman’s choice. I do agree that if someones a couple is in a relationship then there should be a discussion about whether or not they really want to have a child together, but to for a man to say whether or not she can keep it just because he wants a child isn’t far to the woman. She is the one who has to carry it around in her body for 9 months. She shouldn’t be forced to carry a child she doesn’t want. And women should be able to have the final say in it. There are so many factors that can also make a woman need/want to have an abortion. The pregnancy could be high risk which means both her and the baby can die, she could be in an abusive relationship and not want to have a child with that person, if the baby dies in the womb and it needs to be removed that constitutes as an abortion, she could be unable to care of a child emotionally, financially, mentally, physically. There could be a number of reasons, but at the end of the day, it’s her body so it’s her choice. If people don’t want women to get abortions than like it says in the article than women should get access to birth control, better sex education, and we shouldn’t shame women for wanting to be safe and owning their sexuality. Men shouldn’t make the final decisions about women’s bodies because they aren’t women.
I believe that when a women is pregnant and does hold someone else’s child in them I definitely believe that the man should have somewhat of a say in a conversation whether to keep the baby or not but not the final say. Having a baby is a two person deal, while having sex people especially young adults should understand that there is a huge responsibility that comes with it if the women becomes pregnant. I also believe that abortions should be a thing and shouldn’t be banned nor should . Abortions aren’t a good thing nor are they necessarily a bad thing either under the right circumstances and not handed out like candy for some people to just keep fixing their mistakes. I think people have this idea that women do get abortions to get rid of their mistake and don’t think about anything but themselves and I don’t think thats necessarily the whole case. While making a choice like this it isn’t an easy one. This is making a choice not only for you and your partner but an unborn child and that decision will stick with you for the rest of your life. People are quick to judge especially because they have never been put in that position to make such an important choice that will change a couple peoples lives. Abortion’s save so many women’s lives lots of women are put in danger while being pregnant and have to choose to save themselves or their unborn child and still may have complications and not be super healthy. You also have to look at the environment that the baby will be put into, are the parents ready, will they be able to provide for the baby, and do they understand that their whole entire world will change. I believe that planned parenthood should be available to everyone; and that contraceptions aren’t a bad thing if you’re not ready to become a parent and to not be ashamed of what you’re doing. When it comes down to it I think that the women does have the final say. It is her body, her health, and her future.
It’s easy to be judgmental about what other people should do when you, yourself, don’t pay any of the costs, isn’t it?
I believe there should be conversations throughout the relationship so that when she does get pregnant, the couple knows how they feel on the situation. These conversations are important to have for times like these. However, if for some reason theres a change in feelings, I believe she has the final say in whether or not she gets an abortion. If the woman obeys her partner’s wishes and carries on with the pregnancy, It isn’t fair for her to carry a child for nine months when she doesn’t want the baby in the first place. Yes, the father helped create the baby, but he isn’t the one that’s going to be carrying it. Ultimately, it is a woman’s body so it is a woman’s choice.
I agree that women should be able to have the choice to choose whether they would want to abort the child or not. However, I feel like the father’s choice matters when he wants to have an active role if the child were to be born. He is part of the reason why they may have a child growing. I think they should come to a consensus because he has treated the pregnant woman with respect and did not indicate that he would have mistreated the child. It will take a lot of discussion and understanding to find a consensus. It is understandable if one is not met because it is a very hard life decision. To come to an agreement, they may wish to seek other options than abortion. If the pregant woman reall does not want to have a child, than I believe it is acceptable for her to have a safe abortion. At the end of the day, she is the one who would have a more active role in the pregnancy.
Both in agreement is ideal. But if not, she bears the greater burden and should have the greater say.
It’s hard to believe that anyone would still have an opinion like that but, with no disrespect to men, I’m a firm believer in “no uterus, no opinion”. The relationship between the man doesn’t really matter to me in this situation, its the relationship between a woman and her own body that is being discussed. She should have the right to choose. An abortion is not an easy thing to go through physically or emotionally and I don’t believe women choose to abort easily. When children are born to people who are not ready (financially, emotionally or otherwise) to be parents it is not good for the child in the long run. I think what pro-lifers don’t fully grasp is that they are forcing a life but not caring for that life. What happens to the fetus after the birth?
Too bad that pro-lifers are so often just pro life until birth. Which is really just Pro-birth
Yes, I do agree that if a man and a woman are in a safe and committed relationship there should at least be a discussion about abortion, it’s only fair. But I do not think the man should have any say in what the final decision should be. I think what a lot of men lack to realize is the number of battles and complications that come with pregnancy. A lot of people think that abortions are done out of being selfish, but that is hardly the case. Maybe the woman was not mentally or financially ready to bring another human being into this world. There’s also the thought that once the baby is born the man might walk out of the mother’s and the baby’s life. There is so much more the woman has to think about than the man. Overall, women have to go through so much more when it comes to making the decision of abortion. What a woman does with her body should not be anybody else’s decision but hers.
Yes, I do agree that if a man and a woman are in a safe and committed relationship there should at least be a discussion about abortion, it’s only fair. But I do not think the man should have any say in what the final decision should be. I think what a lot of men lack to realize is the number of battles and complications that come with pregnancy. A lot of people think that abortions are done out of being selfish, but that is hardly the case. Maybe the woman was not mentally or financially ready to bring another human being into this world. There’s also the thought that once the baby is born the man might walk out of the mother’s and the baby’s life. There is so much more the woman has to think about than the man. Overall, women have to go through so much more when it comes to making the deciaion of abortion. What a woman does with her body should not be anybody else’s decision but hers.
This presents an interesting position because while a woman’s body is entirely hers, the fetus growing inside of her is made up of her, and her partner. While in any healthy, committed relationship a conversation about a potential abortion is expected, it is ultimately the woman’s body that will bear the consequences. For this reason, the “’good man’” described in the scenario should respect the woman’s decision. For a woman to choose an abortion is not taken lightly and certainly not equated to a form of birth control, as some policymakers may like to believe. The choice to undergo this procedure has intense emotional and physical consequences, and ultimately affects the woman far more than the man. Alternatively, if a woman chooses to cede to her partner and continue the pregnancy, the partner has the option to change his mind and physically walk away, a choice the woman cannot make. While it may seem “unfair” to a man that their female partner gets to make the ultimate decision as to the existence of their unborn child, I encourage them to recall that the majority of policy in the US concerning a woman’s body is decided on by men- and no one asked a woman.
Yes. And the worst part of it is that those who are most against abortion are often also against that which is most effective at stopping abortion: sex education, access to birth control, and not shaming girls for sex so that they will use the birth control and not avoid it out of fear of being labeled a “bad girl” for being prepared for sex.
Well why does she want the abortion? Maybe she does not see a future with her significant other and does not want to be tied to them for life with a child. It is her body and her decision whether she wants to bear a child or not. The significant other can go impregnate someone else if they want to have a child so badly. He says he should have at least 45% say in the matter but I do not agree because a pregnancy is nine months of the woman being incapacitated, she will not be able to work for at least half of her pregnancy depending on her job, and then when the fetus turns into a baby, the woman will have to breast feed it for at least a year or she will be lactating, another yearly inconvenience. Who will take care of the baby while she goes back to work, if she can due to health and company policy. What if he changes his mind, decides he does not want to be a father and leaves the woman to care for the child on her own, will she just have to take her chances then? Or what if they decide to separate, divorce is so common. Also, how old are they? Because if they are teenagers, the situation is even more dire, the girl will most likely not be able to finish high school. I do not agree with the sentiment that the point of life is to have offspring, what a close minded thing to say.
I agree with all your points. And even if he did get 45% of the say and she got 55% of the say, when it comes to a decision like this whoever has most say actually makes the decision.
I think the woman should have the final say on what to do. The father should have the opportunity to voice his opinions and concerns, if he plans to be part of the child and mother’s life, but he has no right to decide for the mother. I agree that abortions should be kept to a minimum but the more anyone tries to tell women that they can’t get an abortion, the more desperate they will become to find a solution and most of those situations will cost more money and will be more dangerous. For example, self-induced abortions using coat hangers can result in death. A lot of these desperate attempts stem from not having enough money for the real procedure or being scared of the situation getting out to friends/family. Instead of stigmatizing abortion, schools should educate kids on the facts behind it, so that that way people can form opinions for themselves instead of being fed a biased view. Schools should have better and more in depth sex education that should continue into high school and not just taught once in elementary or middle school. I think sex education has more of an impact if taught in high school since that’s when some people will start becoming sexually active.
I think abortion is a very difficult topic to talk about only because there’s not a right response to it from people. We have those who are “pro life” or “pro choice” and I personally don’t think that either exists and are very flawed on their own. I completely support women in terms of making the decision of whether or not to get an abortion but if there is a significant other, I do also believe there should be some form of communication before the decision is made, and even then, women should have the final say because it’s their body and carrying a child for 9 months could be a lot for someone. The process is self changing and based on what I’ve seen from friends, it could be self damaging for your emotional state. There’s a lot more risks that women go through than men do when it comes to pregnancy. The judgement that women face every day for their decision or standpoint on abortion is truly horrifying. Even walking into Planned Parenthood with no intention to get an abortion but just for other needs can be looked over. Planned Parenthood gives women a lot of support with the services they offer an getting rid of that would be a pain and make things more difficult for women to obtain certain things. I think that the conversation between couples should be about supporting one another, and yes, the conversation of abortion is heavy but there are a lot of different points that should be put into consideration.
Different people certainly do have different views. But since there is no clear consensus I believe she should make the decision because the decision affects her much more than her partner or anyone else. Plus, making abortion illegal has almost no effect on women trying to get abortions, since desperate women will do what they need to to deal with a situation like this, and to often end up dying in the process.
I think it’s best to focus on what is most effective in stopping abortion: sex education, access to birth control, and not shaming girls for sex so that they will use the birth control and not avoid being prepared for fear of seeming like a “bad girl” to herself or to others.
“I believe she should make the decision because the decision affects her much more than her partner or anyone else.”
What if you could show with certainty that in certain particular situations, the decision affects HIM more than her, should the equation change? Like for example, he wants to have the child and have custody, and recently had an industrial accident and can’t have any more children, then this is his only chance to have them. What if a dozen of your peers agreed this actually is affecting him more than her. Should this change the outcome? I mean, you set the standard as who it affects more, so shouldn’t a jury of your peers decide if that is the case in individual circumstances?
It affects her body and has no affect on his. Even her risk of death rises. That trumps everything.
“Even her risk of death rises. That trumps everything.”
OK. But the stats say that a man with a family has a 32% higher risk of death across a lifetime than a single man. So by denying a man his own family, you are increasing his risk of death by 32%. By contrast, only 0.00042% of women every year die in childbirth. BTW, women also have a higher mortality rate when single, but only 23% compared to men’s 32%. So abortion kills more men every year and affects their bodies and their death rate more than it does women’s.
This makes no sense. Almost all men marry women who aren’t thinking about getting an abortion.
I agree with the man who asked the question that the conversation should take place. But, in my opinion, the abortion issue is not about a baby being “taken away” from a man or a woman for that matter. I believe abortion is about the woman whose body is involved in continuing to create a baby for 9 months. I think this line of thinking is similar to entitlement. A man nor a baby is entitled to a woman’s body, regardless of the man being in a “safe, sane, and committed relationship” with her or the baby being her child. Nobody is entitled to her body, and she doesn’t owe anybody the use of her uterus for 9 months, regardless of their relationship to her. But, that doesn’t mean the conversation shouldn’t take place. Communication is an integral part of every adult relationship, and both the man’s and the woman’s intentions should be fully understood by the other party. While it should be the woman’s decision, I understand the perspective that a man would want his input taken into consideration when this decision is being made.
How can anyone decide what she should do with her own body.
That’s the crux of the issue isn’t it?
I believe in encouraging abortion so we can have consequence-free sex. But if you choose to keep it you can’t extort money from the guy if he doesn’t want it. In prehistory women raised the kids together and men had no concept of “their” kids.
I actually believe in keeping abortion as rare as possible, but making laws against it has almost no effect because desperate women and girls will do whatever they can to abort, and often end up dying. What works is sex education, access to birth control, and not shaming girls were having sex – so that they will use birth control. (Girls often won’t be prepared if they are worried that they won’t seem like good girls if they are.)
Men who don’t want babies should use birth control themselves and talk with their partners about how they feel about abortion before having sex.
Birth control deadens the sexual experience and can mess up people’s hormones. The best thing to do is just have regular sex and put all the rights and responsibilities on the woman since its her body not the man’s.
Birth control may affect men’s sexual experience negatively (condoms) but improves women’s experience by removing the distraction of worry over pregnancy. Some methods affect hormones more than others. Some methods affect hormones in positive ways, like regulating her period, no more menstrual cramps, less likely to get ovarian cancer.
“Men who don’t want babies should use birth control themselves ”
What if they didn’t because the woman lied and said she was using it? Almost all methods are for the female. Why should the male pay up when the woman used him?
If he doesn’t want an abortion he should use a condom to protect himself, and not rely on her.
I don’t even agree with “the point of life is to have offspring” so the rest is pretty moot.
Anyone can be anti-choice if they like, but if that’s a belief you hold very dearly, then you’d better make sure BEFORE you have sex that your partner feels the same. Under any circumstance. And there are a LOT of circumstances.
That’s a really good point.
“I don’t even agree with “the point of life is to have offspring” so the rest is pretty moot.”
But that is the most objectively true thing you have read in your lifetime. If that is not the point of life, what is? As Richard Dawkins would say, as an objective scientist, life is subservient to the selfish gene.
I know a lot of people who have never reproduced who have fulfilling lives. And I know many people who have reproduced who don’t.
I’ve always wondered what the point of living is if the only point is to reproduce someone else. So what’s the point of bothering? If the only thing our offspring are supposed to do is reproduce? It’s all so meaningless. I believe each of us has great potential to develop.
Look up in the dictionary what distinguishes life from a rock. OK, I’ll do it:
Life: the condition that distinguishes animals and plants from inorganic matter, including the capacity for growth, REPRODUCTION, functional activity, and continual change preceding death.
That is LITERALLY the meaning of life. The dictionary says so.
Not all life is equivalent. I’ll bet plenty of people who are against abortion have swatted a mosquito or squashed a spider. Bug life is not equivalent to human life. A fertilized egg is not equivalent to an actual human being.
“A fertilized egg is not equivalent to an actual human being.”
What distinguishes a fetus from what you call “an actual human being”? Let’s take a look at your principles and see if they are consistent.
If for some reason a scientist had serval fetuses and a fire broke out, would you save a few fetuses or one screaming child?
The theory of sexual socialism holds that your body is not yours, rather it is the property of the community. This means that the government has certain obligations towards you: maintaining your body at a level such that other members of the community will find it desirable. Because of the effort put into the other person’s body by the government you will find them desirable as well and you will engage in a series of sexual transactions for mutual pleasure. Therefore, aborting a future member of the community for your own convenience is simply capitalistic and capitalistic thinking is the reason the world is in the state it is in. ‘the decision on whether or not to abort a future member of the community should hinge on potential defects that person has that cannot be fixed by modern science. A non-seeing or non-mobile person for example who cannot be upgraded beyond their condition will live a horrible life being undesired, especially because everyone else’s desirability has ben upgraded by the government.
These theories don’t exist in the real world. capitalism and socialism are irrelevant to this issue.
I think your answer to the gentleman’s question would have been better without the introduction of leftest politics.
I fully support abortion, at least early in the process; although, I can appreciate the arguments for permitting abortions up to the child’s age of 21, given how so many kids are turning out today 🙂
With that said, I think the woman should be the one to have the final word on whether or not she is going to have a child. If she doesn’t want to have one, end of conversation.
And if she wants to have the child, I think a single parent mom is a bad idea; but I feel it is her right to made a bad decision – at least she in consistent in making bad decisions (i.e.; poor choice of the child’s father)
i’m just pointing out that people who are pro-life don’t tend to be pro life on all issues. And that’s a fact. Pro life when it comes to fertilized eggs but not once people are born. Yes, those of us on the left care about the life of human beings once they are born. And we don’t see fertilized eggs as being equivalent to actual human beings.
“In fact, most people who say they are pro-life are against many things that save lives”
Would you be in favour of something that saves lives, aka a 98% income tax rate, with all the money being sent to overseas aid?
If not, then you’re not arguing a principled position, you’re just quibbling over the exact percentage you want the government to take from people in the name of your pet theories.
“sensible gun laws that screen for terrorism”
I watching the news today about Chinese muslims in “re-education camps”, aka concentration camps, because they dare to have wrong think about religion. If you were Chinese in the Uighur where the government is trying to wipe out your community, would you be glad that the government has disarmed your people? Are you glad the people under Stalin and Mao were disarmed, and do you consider the 10s of millions of defenceless people slaughtered to be a net savings of life?
“And a fertilized egg is not equivalent to a person.”
Of course, the man with the query here isn’t asking about fertiilized eggs. There’s an ancient belief that we should distinguish between a “formed” and “unformed” fetus. In other words acquiring a human shape. In todays scientific terminology, perhaps one might talk in terms of cell specialisation, the fetus is not just a blob of non specific cells frozen in a vat, but has acquiried the various parts that make a person. In ancient reckoning this was around day 40. An example of this is Vindicianus from the 4th century. If your position is so morally clear, why did basically all ancient people have a severe penalty if you caused a woman to lose her unborn baby? After all, it’s just a few cells to you.
A 98% income tax rate would not save lives unless the 98% income tax rate were only on people are making Enormous amounts of money. If you have so much money that no extra income makes a dent in your Ability to live and thrive, or if you still have plenty of money left over after that 98% income tax, then I have no problem with it. I much prefer that some people are able to be saved with medical attention and decent incomes than that other people won’t have money that they will never be able to use anyway. So yeah, that’s fine given the constraints I suggest.
On gun control I don’t think that people with arms are any threat to the government’s Military. If everyone in Hong Kong tried to use their guns against their government they wouldn’t win. But if you look at countries with strong gun control they have hardly any gun killings.
A human being should have more rights than either a fertilized egg or an unformed fetus or a formed fetus.
Reblogged this on Rcooley123's Blog and commented:
Another excellent blog post concerning women’s reproductive rights, along with the rights of male partners when the abortion issue is involved. I agree wholeheartedly with her insights. – rjc
Thank you so much Rick!
I am a man and I decide what happens with my body, nobody else has that right. I have my own beliefs and nobody has the right to impose their beliefs on me. Similarly, I have no right to decide or even have an opinion on what someone else does with their body, male or female.
Yes, I am amazed that some people think that they should have more control over another person’s body than the person themselves. I’m also amazed that some people think that a fertilized egg should have more rights than a human woman.