Charlie Sheen: Celebrating a Bad-Boy Who Abuses Women

Charlie Sheen got fired. Until now he seemed to be rewarded more than punished for bad behavior, including a history of violence against women: He shot a fiancée in the arm, he hit a woman who wouldn’t have sex with him, he was arrested for beating a girlfriend, a porn star locked herself in a hotel bathroom as he went berserk, two of the women he married filed restraining orders against him after he issued death threats.

But right now I’m less concerned with Charlie’s behavior than with our own. Why did this abuse bring him greater celebrity than shame?

As Jezebel founder Anna Holmes pointed out in a New York Times piece, offense at abuse depends on the sort of women abused. Porn stars, prostitutes and suspected gold digging wives aren’t sympathetic. 

But sometimes violence against women just doesn’t seem like a big deal. Eminem had a huge hit and huge accolades for “Love the Way You Lie,” which highlighted Rihanna singing “I like the way it hurts” as Eminem chanted, “It’s like I’m in flight, High of a love, Drunk from the hate,” while Megan Fox got beaten up in the accompanying video. The song garnered critical acclaim, including Grammy nominations for Song of the Year and Record of the Year. In fact, going into Grammy night, he led with ten nominations, including Album of the Year. No one seemed too bothered about eroticized abuse.

Oscar felt pretty hip awarding “It’s Hard Out Here For A Pimp” a few years back. Isn’t “owning,” degrading and beating women all part of the pimping life? But hey, it’s all good, as they say.

Or, Super Bowl audiences sat shocked when Justin Timberlake ripped off Janet Jackson’s bodice, revealing a bare nipple. Few cared that choreographed “slapping around” led to the grabbing and ripping. Abusing women is acceptable. But nudity is horrifying.

Then there’s Smack a Slut Week which runs October 3rd – 7th, and can be celebrated “anywhere you like, by, you guessed it, smackin’ sluts,” as The F-Bomb put it. Just a joke? One study found that men discriminated against women more after hearing sexist jokes.

Even the red hat from Devo’s “Whip It” video, depicting a man whipping the clothes off a female mannequin, is now a part of the Smithsonian collection. Accepted, mainstream stuff.

I won’t even get into the eroticized violence so often depicting women freshly killed in high fashion ads.

My first cue that Charlie had a sadistic streak was a news report that he alerted police to a “snuff” film in which a killing that followed sex looked a bit too real to him. Now, he seems to get off on harming women in real life.

Meanwhile, the rest of us stand by, barely noticing. Or celebrating Sheen’s behavior. He’s a bad boy. It’s a lot of fun, and no big deal.

Georgia Platts

Related Posts on BroadBlogs
Charlie Sheen: Winning. But Is He Happy?
Women Seeing Women as Sexier than Men
What Happens When You Beat A Sex Object?
Rape Epidemic in South Africa. Why?

About BroadBlogs

I have a Ph.D. from UCLA in sociology (emphasis: gender, social psych). I currently teach sociology and women's studies at Foothill College in Los Altos Hills, CA. I have also lectured at San Jose State. And I have blogged for Feminispire, Ms. Magazine, The Good Men Project and Daily Kos. Also been picked up by The Alternet.

Posted on March 9, 2011, in feminism, gender, objectification, psychology, sexism, violence against women, women and tagged , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 32 Comments.

  1. “But sometimes violence against women just doesn’t seem like a big deal. Eminem had a huge hit and huge accolades for “Love the Way You Lie,” which highlighted Rihanna singing “I like the way it hurts” as Eminem chanted, “It’s like I’m in flight, High of a love, Drunk from the hate,” while Megan Fox got beaten up in the accompanying video.” I feel the same as freemenow since the society and the media seems do not think spreading the idea of violence against women is a big issue, and therefore they keep spreading this kind of messages to the public through music and video. I believe the media play an important role to the problem of violence and abuse problems. However, we also need to take the responsibility to learn judging the right and wrong on things happen around us and the message we receive from the media. Moreover, I agree with freemenow that women are responsible for the abuse and violence issue. They should have the responsibility to protect themselves from being hurt by the other. Also, women in nowadays should no longer be stereotyped as the weak little women who have no rights or power to say “NO!”.

    • EXACTLY!
      Half the women hide their heads and blame it on the loose ones as if if they ignore it – it will just go away – hey after all they teach their kids right – and it will never happen to them or their kids! Right? Wrong!
      And the other half say stupid things like— THIS IS THE 21ST CENTURY – GET WITH IT – THAT’S THE WAY IT IS.

      Well it sure is since women from neither side are stopping it! And why noy?
      The right will be called prudes or worse and the left asked for it in the first place so we all sit and take it as if it will stop itself!
      Damned fools!

      belhong – I don’t know who you are but I know you are the first to agree with me on this site – in — well since it has been up! I was sure at least one soul out there had to agree someday!
      Thanks !

  2. I think that just as there are violent men, there are violent women, BUT often times the reason these women are violent is because they are with someone who abuses them. It’s almost ignorant to hold on to the fact that women are violent too, so it’s no big deal.

    I was watching an interview with Charlie Sheen the other day and all his responses seemed so out of place and immature. But I was with some obviously immature guys, who were glorifying him and saying things like “he’s so boss”. I laughed at them… why is he so glorified when all he does is do drugs, and have sex? What if it was a celebrity woman in this case? I don’t think it would be as prettily painted. People are failing to look beyond the obvious, he has a psychological problem caused by all the drugs he did. The personality he portrays now isn’t exactly who he is… I’d think… it’s just the effects of what he’s done.

    There’s this great but sad movie called “The Stoning of Soraya”, based on a true story. It takes place in Iran and is about this woman who is physically and emotionally abused by her husband, yet she serves to his every need because that is what is expected. Because her husband wants to remarry, he decides to start a rumor that she is unfaithful. As a result, it is decided by her community that she should be stoned to death. And so she is. Her husband uses this as an excuse to be with someone else and even goes as far as turning her two sons against her (they stone her too). This movie sheds light on the reality of violence against women in more conservative countries.

  3. Like many, I have been hearing great deals about Charlie Sheen. The gist of it having to deal with how he is a “drug addict” and a “wife beater”, and how he has recently done more downhill than where he ever seems to have been before. Up until now, though, I honestly didn’t realize he had such a bad history with his significant others. It didn’t seem as though he had received the full punishment that he should have deserved, especially for being in denial for believing that anything he does is perfectly fine. He doesn’t even look like himself anymore, and it saddens me that he has gotten this way when he had a lot going for him. I really hope that he can start to change his paths and better himself as a person.

  4. Over the past month I have also been wondering why so many people have been celebrating Charlie Sheen when he has had so many physical altercations with women. I actually was only aware of a few of the incidents but now that I know how many there have been, I am even more puzzled. I find that I hear the name Charlie Sheen several times throughout the course of a day, or one of his many catchphrases; frankly at this point I find it annoying. I don’t think that people are celebrating him for his abuse of women, but instead they choose to ignore that factor. Most people know that Charlie Sheen has had these issues with women but choose to glorify his bad boy behavior, and give him more attention which is exactly what he wants. Instead of giving him more and more popularity, people should acknowledge the fact that he is a very violent man who is out of control, and should not be idolized for this kind of behavior. This is just one of the many ways the media gives men the wrong idea that objectifying women is cool.

    • I’d guess that people aren’t celebrating his abusing women, they celebrate the bad-boy, and the fact that this includes harming women isn’t given much thought. The invisibility, itself, seems troubling.

  5. wow! I cant believe this guy committed so many crimes. How can a person be like that? it is very creepy. I think that if we want to gain respect from others first we have to start with us. We should respect ourselves and respect others. We still have a lot of racism going on against women. Men still make bad comments against women and that happens because we hear them and we don’t say something about it. Hopefully in the future society notices that we are both equal.

  6. I completely understand what you’re saying about Charlie Sheen. I do have my own opinion on the matter though. Everywhere I go weather its online or into a store with a newspaper I see Charlie Sheen. In my own perspective it seems as if the magazines or article men normally view see him more praiseworthy and give him celebrity status for doing what he’s done. On a second note it seems woman’s material all show him as a bad person for what he’s done with women. I think the topics matter is at a completely different view from the women and male perspective. It seems most men find him praiseworthy while women will always see what he’s done as degrading. The men find that abusing certain women is okay, while women will always defend their gender. Although it is morally wrong certain men think they are more dominant over certain women. The issue about the music about abuse I think otherwise. I believe most of the song are listened to because they’re catchy. The lyrics have very foul meaning but I believe most people don’t even notice how much more of a meaning they have.

  7. Darlene Pizzitolo student

    I think it sad how socity feeds on what Charlie Sheen is doing when there are more important events happen in the world like Libya and the Middle East. But the media is more interested in bad boy Charlie Sheen, if the world was falling apart like it is now the media would still be interested in Sheen.

  8. Darlene Pizzitolo student

    I believe Charlie Sheen will eventually kill one if the women hes with because he has a sadistic side. He likes to abuse women because this abusive act on women makes him feel powerful an makes him feel like a real man in his mind, and he knows that he can get away with anything because he has money and star power. For some reason people in this country love to watch anything celebrates do because they have money.

  9. snowisfun,
    I could not agree with you more on the statutory rape of boys by adult females!

    The only think equally disgusting is the way the male attorneys giggle about it and find it sad that they did not themselves have such an opportunity !
    Boys deserve to be raped by older women because that is not rape when males enjoy sex so much!

    Never mind that their youth is stolen and they are not afforded a normal sexual awakening – whatever that might be for boys- never mind that they are not offered the opportunity to remain celebate until marriage or that they are grabbed and seduced before they understand the consequences and while they are raging with hormones.

    If women are truly to be equal they should be punished for pedophilia which is a crime!

  10. I was responding to the idea that women are equally responsible and not held accountable as was posed by an erlier poster.

    Allen Silveira says:
    March 9, 2011 at 11:29 pm
    First off, no one is celebrating the fact that Charlie Sheen is cool because he beats women. Violence against women is a huge deal in our society. In fact courts go out of their way to protect women against violence and are more prone to convict men of physical abuse. Women have been shown to be the initiator in over half of domestic violence encounters. We as a society accept this form of violence that women commit, but as soon as a man lays a hand on a women he goes to jail.

    Allen posited that women initiated OVER 50% of the DV! I was initially answering his follish comment when you became involved into our debate. Quite possibly I either got the idea you were in league with his ideology or simply continued on the same thought pattern.

    Lest I forget, I want to clarify this: I do not assume that in all domestic violence the man must be guilty of abuse & battery.

    I can assure you, I am fully aware of abusive, violent women and their numbers are on the rise but at this time the numbers are still 87% male dominated and that is a fact that just sets me off when I hear an abuser belly-ache ” there are women abusers too.” The comparison galls me.

    Its really like comparing a common cold to typhoid fever. Women are dying at the rate of 4/5 a day- men are not being strangled and bludgeoned at that rate in a month!

    My tone was of disbelief that we can make such a callous comparison. I had 2 sons and 2 daughters now deceased. I now have 3 grandsons only.

    I can assure you that if any female ever raises her hands to my guys – she will Rue the day she met me — but it won’t be because I will strike her!

    I hope I cleared up my position- guilty deserves punishment regardless of the sex of the perp!

    Have a good evening!

  11. Excuse me but I stopped reading anything you had to say as soon as I got to the part that YOU SAID “but why he did it remains the same. The punishment must be based on why it happened”

  12. Some thoughts on domestic violence. 1st, they must make the laws simple-abuse or assault&battery. The punishment must be based on the why it happened, injuries inflicted & does the suspect have past convictions regardless of relationship between perpetrator & victim.

    2nd, other than size don’t view men hitting women as much different as a man hitting a man, woman hitting a man or woman hitting a woman. For eg. let’s say that a woman tells a man that his mom is a slut & the man reacts by hitting her. To me that’s the same as a man hitting another man after he tells him that his mom is a slut. Yes, in both cases, the man must be punished, but why he did it remains the same. The punishment must be based on why it happened, injuries inflicted & does the man have past convictions for assault&battery.

    3rd, if my #s are right, with domestic violence esp. women make up 15-20% of battery arrests, so there are violent women. As known, what typically happens in domestic violence calls is that the police 1st go to the scene & look @ both the man & the woman. They’ll then get both the man & woman’s stories to decide whose story is believable. If they conclude that domestic violence happened, then they’ll arrest 1 or in some cases both for assault&battery. Cops sometimes reach the wrong conclusion in domestic violence cases-there are cases where men have been arrested for battery when in fact it was the wife or girlfriend who hit them.

    4th. My belief with regard to punishment for crimes is that they must be based again on why it happened, injuries inflicted & does the suspect have a past record. It must not be based on the victim’s sex. In addition to domestic violence another crime would be statutory rape. If a 34 year old woman has sex with a 16 year old boy, then she must get = jail time as if a 34 year old man has sex with a 16 year old girl. Yet adult women who have sex with teenage boys often get less jail time for statutory rape than adult men get for having sex with teenage girls. They again must make the punishment =.

  13. allen silveira

    What bothers me about this situation lies within the gender roles of our society. Men are constantly told to be tough, strong, and sometimes even violent. I am not trying to shift blame away from Charlie Sheen, but I think he is a byproduct of our very own culture and society.

    • Re: ” Charlie Sheen, I think, is a byproduct of our very own culture and society.”

      That’s one of the points I was making in my post. And as I said, in this particular post I’m primarily addressing a society that sometimes acts as though abuse toward women isn’t a big deal. We are all products of our culture.

    • Men are constantly told to be tough, strong, and sometimes even violent.
      Women are expected to be subservient either as hommaker welcome mats or as sex objects — on this we can all agree — we have all become byproducts of our very own culture and society.

      What we are not agreeing on is why and i contend we ourselves have happily created our own beds and now as we lie in them we want to place blame on others!

      Place the blame right where it belongs- no one can make you behave as you do – you must be a willing participant or you are a slave.
      So which are you?

  14. allen silveira

    Broad blogs, yes women are more likely to be killed by their partners than men are. But also women are more likely to kill their children. Over 200 children are murdered each year by their mothers. Why is it in our Society specially in the media we tend to not see all of the facts about domestic violence? When has a women been under the spot light like Charlie Sheen is for so much abuse?

    Patricia Blackmon was 29 years old when she killed her 2-year-old adopted daughter in Dothan, AL in May 1999.
    Kenisha Berry at age 20, covered her 4-day-old son with duct tape resulting in his death.

    Debra Jean Milke was 25 when she killed her 4-year-old son in Arizona in 1989.

    Dora Luz Durenrostro killed her two daughters, age 4 and 9, and her son, age 8, when she was 34 years old in San Jacinto, California in 1994.

    Caro Socorro was 42 years old when she killed her three sons, ages 5, 8 and 11, in Santa Rosa Valley, California in 1999.

    Susan Eubanks murdered her four sons, ages 4, 6, 7 and 14, in San Marcos, California, in 1996 when she was 33.

    Caroline Young was 49 in Haywood, California when she killed her 4-year-old granddaughter and 6-year-old grandson.

    Robin Lee Row was 35 years old when she killed her husband, her 10-year-old son and her 8-year-old daughter in Boise, Idaho in 1992.
    Michelle Sue Tharp was 29 years old in Burgettstown, Pennsylvania when she killed her 7-year-old daughter.

    Frances Elaine Newton was 21 when she murdered her husband, 7-year-old son and 2-year-old daughter in Houston, Texas. Update: Frances Elaine Newton was executed on September 14, 2005.

    Darlie Lynn Routier was 26 in Rowlett, Texas when she was convicted of killing her 5-year-old son.

    Teresa Michelle Lewis killer her 51-year-old husband and 26-year-old step son in Keeling, Virgina when she was 33 years old.

    • Yes, women do sometimes kill their children, though this is much more rare than men killing their partners. So why do they? We live in a society that lends little support to mothers, as compared with societies like France. Some women are overburdened and we need to help them. Some women are mentally ill, and we need to help them, too.

      • And this is supported by my comments above. Statics shows women are so much less violent even under reporting can not make up that difference however a common theme among abusers is first denial and them the claims seen here!

    • You are obviously biased against women so let me set you straight: Instead of rattling off the names of fem murders use sound figures please. hewre are some and astoundingly — Women—who commit less than 13 percent of all violent crimes in the United States—commit about 50 percent of all parental murders. Why do so many women direct their most violent impulses toward their own children? While it may once have been true that women were the sole—and often frustrated—caregivers of small children, mothers now work, yet they don’t kill their colleagues; they kill their babies, and while studies still are not perfect- clearly giving birth sometimes results in mental illness to say the least.

      According to a recent article by Elizabeth Fernandez in the San Francisco Chronicle, studies further reveal that fathers are far more likely to commit suicide after killing their children. Mothers attempt post-filicide suicide but rarely succeed. Some scholars suggest this is because mothers tend to view their children as mere extensions of themselves and that these homicides are in fact suicidal.

      “The Murders
      Perhaps more revealing than the differences in why they kill their offspring are the differences between how fathers and mothers do so. For one thing, parental murderers tend to be highly physical. According to a 1988 survey done by the U.S. Justice Department, while 61 percent of all murder defendants used a gun in 1988, only 20 percent of the parents who killed their children used one. Children were drowned and shaken, beaten, poisoned, stabbed, and suffocated. These methods betray a certain “craziness” in both genders—they betray an intense passion and a lack of planning. But a study by the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children shows that fathers are far more violent. And mothers frequently dispose of the corpses in what researchers call a “womblike” fashion. Bodies are swaddled, submerged in water, or wrapped in plastic. Moreover, the NCMEC study showed that while the victims of maternal killings are almost always found either in or close to the home, fathers will, on average, dispose of the bodies hundreds of miles away. All these behaviors suggest that women associate these murders with themselves, their homes, and their bodies

      None of the arguments here assumes that there is no such thing as postpartum depression or, in rarer cases, postpartum psychosis—a deep break from reality that affects less than one in 500 new mothers. Andrea Yates is actually a good example of someone who was overdetermined to experience some kind of psychotic break that would end tragically. But Yates is only one of hundreds of mothers who kill every year, and while complete psychotic breaks explain why some of this homicidal rage and violence is turned upon one’s own children, it doesn’t account for either the staggering numbers of maternal homicides or for society’s leniency toward women in these cases. The property theory does provide these answers. Women still believe that they have sole dominion over so little property that arson and armed robbery and rape make no intuitive sense to them. But the destruction and control of something deemed to be a woman’s sole property sends a powerful message about who’s really in charge, and this message hasn’t changed since the time of Jason and Medea.”

  15. OK nothing- Huffington Post my foot that Lib rag doesn’t even stand up and fight against stoning and beheading women let alone battery. Women who raise their hands to men or tossing plates etc are most likely defending themselves. AND defending themselves now lands them in jail for battery – in other words she has to stand there and get beat because if she self defends – she gets arrested too.

    Its all rigged against women and anyone who knows a good court watcher knows that. Also check your damned statistics.
    4 women a day are murdered by the hand of their intimate partner- how many men show up dead? a woman is raped every 6 minutes – how many men every how often? How many men are battered unreported compared to unreported femaled battered?

    Cut me a break- spin it any way you like — women under report because they fear for their lives and the livlihood of their children. A man who has a job can walk out anytime. next you are going to try to tell me men are left home alone with the kids and that is unreported! ARe they maritaqlly raped and under reporting that too?

  16. Allen Silveira

    Here is another interesting perspective. As a general rule, men tend to underreport both their violence against their female partners and their female partners’ violence against them. By contrast, women tend to over-report both the men’s violence against them and their own violence. Check out this website for some more information from Dr. Capaldi.

  17. Allen Silveira

    First off, no one is celebrating the fact that Charlie Sheen is cool because he beats women. Violence against women is a huge deal in our society. In fact courts go out of their way to protect women against violence and are more prone to convict men of physical abuse. Women have been shown to be the initiator in over half of domestic violence encounters. We as a society accept this form of violence that women commit, but as soon as a man lays a hand on a women he goes to jail.

    • Where do you get “Women have been shown to be the initiator in over half of domestic violence encounters”? That is the cry of most abuser in fact, Mo Hassan tried to tell the court that his wife initiated the abuse too and he just got 25 to life for beheading her.

      Sometimes I wonder how we all survive being ‘female in America’. First, we have the story of an eleven year old girl being gang raped by countless thugs (28 and counting) who fortunately for the prosecution were stupid enough to make movies of the crime and show it at school. A defense attorney made sure to note that the victim was “willing”. I see it a ‘willing’ 11 year old.
      Of course, in America girls even younger than 11 can be deemed as ‘willing’. has the following lead up:
      Unapologetic for Affair With Pedophile
      “Tiger, Tiger” Author Margaux Fragoso describes man who abused her from age 7
      Then only 25 years for hacking off your third wife’s head- even after knowing how horrific a crime it is!
      (Reuters) – The founder of a Muslim TV network who was convicted of beheading his wife was sentenced on Wednesday to 25 years to life in prison, the maximum penalty under the law for the charge against him.
      “I deeply regret that things came down to what they came down to,” he said. “I truly wish there would have been some sort of alternate mechanism.”
      I only wish this had happened in Texas instead, because his cockroach ass would fry and American women could cheer–and I suspect, so could a fair number of captive women who worry for their lives daily at the hands of creatures like Mo. Unfortunately, he will get a chance to appeal. So we will have to wait a bit longer for Muzzammil Mo Hassan to get what’s coming to him. If you ask me, his conviction wasn’t quite right. It should have been for First-Degree murder. But 25-life should be plenty of time for the disgusted prisoners around him to work their magic

      And there you are telling us trying to sell us more than half of the women initiate it- How sad that you expect anyone to believe you!

    • Sheen abuses women, which gets a lot of publicity, along with his rants, and his TV ratings go up something like 30%, and he’s record-setting in Twitter followers. The more bad publicity he gets, and the more his bad behavior mirrors his TV character, the more popular he seems to become. I’ve been disgusted with him for quite some time, and have wondered why others don’t have similar feelings. Instead, he’s the talk of the town, with violence dismissed as “boys will be boys.” I also found it interesting that when asked about abuse of women he said he was exposing the women to magic. In the “top 10 quotes” of his, I couldn’t find that quote. Nothing apparently remarkable about that statement. Could only find it on a feminist site. Not to mention all the other examples of society being fine with Eminem and pimps, etc.

      Sometimes women are punished more than men for domestic violence. Because they’re on average smaller and have less muscle mass, they’re more likely to use a “weapon” like throwing a plate. And “weapon” use can get her in bigger trouble. When men do get greater punishment, it’s because they inflict more damage due to average bigger size and greater upper body strength.

  18. Emma Betancourt

    Professor Platts,
    Can’t agree more! What’s sad is that ever since his rant he describes himself as “winning”, now everywhere I go all I see is “winning” everywhere. Now winning doesn’t mean anything bad.. but to me, it means that we have paid SO MUCH attention (and the wrong type of attention) to this.. Jerk that he’s becoming part of everyday!

  19. Well, I cannot argue with that- look at Islamic cultures, just today we saw the sentencing of the guy who beheaded his wife in Buffalo and can’t understand why he is guilty but that was not what you were addressing- so neither was I.

    I was addressing exactly that which you outlined so perfectly and that is where we American women find ourselves and how I believe we got to this place.

  20. Women are getting exactly what Liberal women asked for!
    Oh it started out innocuous enough but little by little we got to the point, that all women are treated shabbily and worse, women attack each other! The media treats us with disrespect. TV, movies and music berates us and vilifies and calls us the bitches, witches, cunts and ho’s– and God forbid we complain or whine! Only the minorities are allowed to do complain- the majority on the other hand can just suck it up!
    SHAME on those of us who stood by and let this happen all in the name of liberation! To quote the words from ‘Me and Bobby McGee’- Freedom’s just another word for nothin left to lose! We went from aprons and pill box hats to stripper poles- how’s that working out for us?
    I have been shaking my head for 35 — make that almost 40 years now trying to figure out how women could be this gullible and go from one extreme to another and think they weren’t just as used and abused and enslaved at either extreme. Stupid, stupid, stupid, women! One bunch walks ten steps behind, keeping a perfect hearth and home having babies, adoringly catering to every household need while the other are on their knees in men’s crotches or near naked prancing their wares veing for a chance to play baby momma or temporary goddess to any prick who needs a place to park.
    There is such a thing as bending too far – and a mighty Oak that does not bend also breaks.
    A real woman is enslaved neither left nor right but stands solidly independent as she is born to be! Only when she bows right or bends over left is she subservient to those who would use and abuse her… .
    Anyone who believes that the way we treat women today is acceptable is sick and in need of treatment.

    • Thanks, freemenow. But I must note that abuse of women is even higher overall, and more accepted, in non-liberal cultures. The more patriarchal, the higher the abuse. In non-patriarchal cultures abuse is pretty much non-existent (see American Indians of the East Coast before contact w/Europeans). I’ll write more about this later.

      Though, if liberal is defined as “anything goes” that is a downside. Perhaps this aspect of liberalism is what you point to.

      But I wouldn’t paint all liberals or conservatives as promoting or tolerating violence against women.

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