How Does A Man Ask A Woman Out Post-Weinstein?
One of my male Facebook friends wondered: how does a man ask a woman out post-Weinstein?
He’s not the only one who wonders. A New York Times headline blared “Deep Confusion of the Post-Weinstein Moment.”
It doesn’t some so complicated to me. Like this:
- Don’t meet a woman while wearing an open bathrobe — or anything like that, a la Harvey Weinstein.
- Don’t grab a woman’s breasts or rub your erection up against her, a la Mark Halperin.
- No crotch-groping, a la Kevin Spacey and Donald Trump
- Don’t proposition 14-year-olds, a la Roy Moore
- Don’t ask a woman to watch you masturbate, a la Louis C.K.
- Don’t keep pushing for sex when she says she’s not interested.
- Don’t suggest her career will be ruined if she doesn’t have sex with you.
- Be aware of power differentials that can leave women fearing retribution if they refuse or if they complain about sexual harassment.
Still, some men like Woody Allen fear a “witch hunt.” Woody Allen… that reminds me: don’t sleep with your step-daughter.
Common courtesy and common sense.
Posted on November 16, 2017, in rape and sexual assault and tagged dating in an era of sexual harassment, Harvey Weinstein, Mark Halperin, sexual harassment, Woody Allen. Bookmark the permalink. 99 Comments.
My favorite way that I’ve heard explained to men how to ‘steer clear’ of sexual harassment is to imagine their gestures and words as if being said or done to them from a homosexual man. Would they then understand when a friendly pat on the shoulder or back can be differentiated from an inappropriate, lingering touch? Would they then understand the harassment of an unprovoked sexual advance, attempted forced kiss or grope?
There is a common lack of respect for women’s ability to refuse advances. Uninvited sexual advances are not methods of seduction, it is sexual harassment.
Men who fear this “witch hunt” and potentially facing claims of their own fail to recognize the fear women daily: the fear women feel walking alone at night, the fear women feel riding in taxis/Ubers alone, etc.
The fears men feel of facing false or unrealized claims does not even somewhat parallel the fears women feel every single day. This is why this “me too” movement is so very necessary. There is a need for exposure on this topic that has gone unspoken for far too long.
Not quite same story, but has relation in regards to women. You hear this? This is not new and disturbing. Yes luckily it’s not most men or boys , but still troubling amount. You hear of the incel movement? Wasn’t there women target and ten shot and killed in canada last month and then this. I don’t think this was the first sniper shooting I’ve heard before and directed at women.
It makes me think of Elliot Rodger a couple years ago. Said he had a very bad view of women. “The man charged with shooting at least two women during separate road rage incidents allegedly believed women were only on Earth to give birth to men.”
But you know what’s also connected to this. Not just the culture where men are taught to bottle up their emotions or show their strong, anger like emotions instead and women as sex objects. But what’s also troubling and what I notice different from women. And it might be because of the burden men feel, but men not right in the head only make this internalization extreme. Is this “me against society mindset” “I’ve been wronged, so now everybody, especially women are going to pay for my suffering”. This nihilism. There are many differences between many criminal men of different types.
But man, a common thing whether terrorist, mass shooter or serial abusers targeting people, especially women. Is nihilistic view of life and humanity and women. I read something how depressed or sad or troubled women turn this feeling on to themselves, whereas men, perhaps because of how society makes it hard for men to handle their emotions or cope. They externalize it and instead of taking their failures out on themselves, they put the blame on others for their perceived failures on life and as a result creates great anger and hatred, that can come to a boiling point. What’s going on with are troubled youth? Young boys/men to feel such depressive, angry, nothing matters in life point of view. There’s something going on, because women and girls may be depressed too, but don’t often seem quite nihilistic like men or young boys. I know you post similar stuff and don’t post as much, but this seems like an interesting talking point from the nihilism point of view.
Jesus, here I write about that last night and then the sad news today. It’s still related I feel, lack of coping and nihilism. God people can’t even play video games and escape real life without some guys wanting to take out their depression, nihilism and non care of life and everything and just want to see the world burn and people pay for their perceived failure in life. What I’m talking about is a shooting that killed two people, and 9 badly injured from a suspect opening fire at a madden football video game tournament. Believed to be a guy, a disgruntled player who lost in it. He opened fire on people and gamers there. The tournament was live steamed and just disturbing. The game is going on and the cuts out and you hear gun shots and people yelling. A red dot lined up on a boys head having fun not realizing, because he’s playing the game, that someone is aiming at his head.His poor family. God there are many dangerous places, like living in a bad neighborhood you could be fearful of such stuff. But other places you’d think you would feel safe or be safe. A video game tournament shouldd be one, but not even that. It’s like a people getting shot at Toy’s R Us for crying out loud. Have you heard of it or learned of that news? 😦
These incidents are so sad. Sad for everyone who is harmed, for everyone who hears about it, and certainly for the mind of the person who perpetrate such carnage.
I’d like to write about this but I’m on vacation for the next couple of weeks. Maybe I can still make it relevant when I get back. And unfortunately it probably will be relevant in the not too distant future After I get back.
(By the way, your writing is getting a lot better. Much more focused. Maybe put you as the author or co-author.)
The fact that men are unsure about how to talk to women post-#MeToo is a clear reflection that there are issues with the way men interact with women as a whole. If men are worried about being accused of sexual assault, that’s a red flag on the men who can’t understand consent, not on the women who are victims of sexual assault. I saw a post on social media that joked that men didn’t really know if they could even hug female co-workers anymore. I don’t see what all the confusion is about. There is no gray area with consent and making a woman fear that she will be a victim of sexual violence. If a woman looks uncomfortable or is making it clear she doesn’t want to be touched, don’t touch her! The idea that the #MeToo movement is a witch-hunt is a way for people who don’t understand the trauma that comes with sexual assault to point fingers and call someone a liar. Why would someone want to lie about that? A lot of women who are victims don’t have the platform to share their story because their perpetrators are still in their lives, they fear they may lose their job, or that their families will turn their backs on them. Sexual assault is a taboo subject and most women are shamed for being victims. The idea that women accuse famous men of sexual assault just to get fame or money is flawed because no woman is put up on a pedestal after coming out with her story. She may be encouraged by others, if she has the right platform, but that privilege is usually only reserved for celebrities with fans to support them. A low 4% of accusations are false in the #MeToo movement, so I think we need to move past the idea that this is a witch-hunt and really start deconstructing the system of power that allows sexual assault to happen in the first place.
I can understand why a man may be apprehensive or may fear being rejected when asking a woman out. However, I would hope that if woman is not interested, surely one can pick up on it. I think a flat out no may be spared if the gentleman would take the hint that a woman is not interested in furthering the relationship. I don’t have much experience in dating, (because I am married) but I would think a woman can enjoy a man’s company without him thinking she might want more. Take the cues a woman gives you, and if she says no, it means no. The workplace protocol should be easier to understand. I remember at my first job, we had workplace sexual harassment training. I was eighteen and didn’t really understand why we had to spend time on a subject that to me was common sense. Soon, I understood after hearing all the inter-relationships of the employees, managers, and bosses. When you have a person in a position of authority, who is interested in a subordinate, it gets very difficult to determine if they are reciprocating the interest or they fear the rejection may backfire on them so they just go along. In the workplace environment, it is best to keep a professional relationship anyway for everyone sake.
And really, the things that have been publicized are things that should be obvious – that men should obviously know not to do.
The Me-Too Movement has blown up in full force not only in the United States but on an international level. Survivors of sexual assault all over the world are gaining momentum and courage from other survivors to raise their voice and be heard too. I believe this is a truly amazing phenomenon; I love that it really goes to show that, in this fight towards eliminating gender inequality, women are stronger when we stand together, and united as one united force not to be reckoned with. Harvey Weinstein was one of the most notorious names in the Me-Too Movement history thus far, with at least 8 different women with sexual harassment allegations against him. While most mainstream media outlets have been supports and allies to the Me-Too Movement, some certainly have taken a different narrative. With headlines such as, “In Wake of Weinstein, Men Wonder if Hugging Women Still OK.” The bottom-line of articles like these is that it’s so hard to be a man in this world with the uproar of the Me-Too Movement because men don’t know how to act around women anymore. This, to me, is absolutely absurd. The way that men like Weinstein, have treated women was never okay, to begin with. I actually think it’s disrespectful to the survivors that finally spoke out to say things like this. It is as if the media is turning the narrative as if to say that the problem wasn’t with the disgusting behaviors of these men but women somehow just misinterpreted their actions?! My point is this, there should be absolutely no confusion about how you should treat another human being, let alone a woman, with dignity and respect.
This post outlines a lot of the major effects from the aftermath of high profile celebrities being caught in sexual assault scandals. For men, it does not have to be like stepping on thin ice to ask a women out. As a matter of fact, it should be a simple yes or no question, but dominant males in society have deemed it a sort of demeaning thing for a woman to reject a courtship from a man. Sadly, a lot of men will not take no for an answer and have to resort to evil options to get what he wants. It should not be like this. Women are allowed entitlement to what they want, and they are allowed to be with who they want if they want. Sex, love and friendship are not forced upon but rather built upon trust and consent. Anyone who discards another humans interests, feelings and emotions for their own selfish needs is not a functioning member of society and need to educated with the proper common sense: if she says no, it means no!
Sexual harassment has always been hidden and buried. It’s not a topic one brings up during a gathering – it could be a sensitive matter for that person. It can make the individual insecure after such a traumatic event. Most times, when people hear that you’ve gone through something as traumatic as Weinstein, people overthink how to approach that person. People deal with it in many ways, and it’s important to know your boundaries. It’s also really just common sense.
How to ask a woman out post-Weinstein:
– Don’t suffocate her: While she is recovering from any kind of sexual assault or sexual harassment, do not expect or force her to tell you about the events. It’s not the same as her stubbing her toe at the corner of the table leg. Give her the time and space she needs to be comfortable again.
– Don’t feel offended if she rejects you. She’s probably still trying to be comfortable with herself.
– Don’t be insensitive if she’s comfortable with opening up about it – it can take a lot of courage to speak up about it to someone. It can’t be decided on how it can have affected them by someone else.
– Be respectful: Respect her decision if she’s not ready for relationships or dating after such incident. Self-recovery and support is the most important step for that person. If that person is really into her and cared for her AND wants to date her, he’ll respect her decisions.
Which brings me to my next point:
– Don’t be offensive: If the pursuer knows that that individual has been sexually assaulted or sexually harassed AND they’re being insensitive about it – they have no place in asking that women or person out. PERIOD. They don’t need to be dating, they need to work on their people skills.
Sexual harassment shouldn’t be hidden and buried. Don’t be afraid to call that person out because it can escalate from catcalling to sexual assault.
I think men have always had a fear of coming across as creepy when trying to approach women. They have to say exactly the right tings so they will not come across as a creep and present themselves so they genuinely seem interested in getting to know her. I think the whole metoo movement has made men realize how much their actions hurt women and how they destroy lives. I have noticed a change in the way women and men interact, but when it comes to approaching a woman, I believe little has changed. Men are still nervous in the same way as they were before about approaching a woman, and this is because those who have sincere intentions are the ones most worried about how hey present themselves. I believe those who approach women as if they are objects will continue to do so because they want to exert their power over women and I think what happened with Weinstein had little effect on that. I think the only major impact that the metoo movement had on men was that they realized sexual misconduct victims will no longer be silent, so they better not do it. But as far as daring goes, sleezebags will always approach women in an unrespectful manner and men with good intentions will always be the only ones worried of how they present themselves.
I just think it’s strange that many men are wondering how they should behave when the behavior the #metoo movement brings out is so obviously not what they should do.
I think that communication is key. A good relationship is based on not only the physical but truly communication between two souls. Whether it is in the workplace between co-workers, or two friends. There is a code of ethics that says no dating in the work place especially between employers and your boss. Its prohibited in many workplaces as it should be, however some sadly break the rules or/and are lead by poor judgment. Some of the things I heard recently are just so sad that some think this sort of unwelcomed advances and behavior are ok. I believe dialogue is not only useful for communicating, but truly a necessary for ones journey. To presume that one can be sexual without the others concent or “come on” to another without their consent and no dialogue seems so primitive to me. Women are much more then a wife and those that bare children as highlighted in the 1950’s. In the 1970’s and 1980’s women became much more sexualized in the media, commercials, movies, ads, and other places as well and grew to what it is today. Thus, why certain issues are arising of the unwelcome advances that have been going on for years, that have been shown in the news and other media outlets. Communication is key. In cases of unwelcome advaces, no means no. Women want to treated with respect and validation.
Great post! As a male that is interested in women, I would have to agree with you. I have heard many men in the workplace as well as a few friends ask similar questions, but even more of them believe a lot of these harassment claims are false allegations used to get money. I tend to not involve myself in such conversations, but when I do my response is similar to yours. First of all, it has nothing to do with them or their attempts to meet a woman unless they plan on using some of these awful power plays to force a woman to be involved with them. These things are terrible and in no way something anyone should do. It seems to me that men who take advantage of women like this have their own issues with gender and power, and unfortunately other people suffer from their problems. As you said, it’s simple. Be nice. Be respectful. Be aware of their feelings. Most importantly, be yourself (unless you like meeting women with an open bathrobe).
Wow! This is a straight to the point list. The only thing missing is to make sure you don’t give anyone any drugs without their consent. No making drinks and slipping something in. In light of all that’s going on and women and men telling their stories I can see how people would be cautious about approaching someone they may be interested in. I think the best way to do it is to be a little old fashioned in your approach by being respectful and honest. Although most of these persons who were accused of inappropriateness and actual crimes are persons in a ‘power’ position there probably are many other instances where these situations happen. Lets spread respect and love for one another!
People who consider the #MeToo movement a crisis NOT because it reveals a systematic and horrifying disregard for women and their bodies, but a crisis because their favorite actor or politician has been outed as a slob, are gross people. I’m sorry, but this is not a witch hunt on men–this era is a call-to-action to simply not be an abhorrent human and to not take advantage of individuals. What Weinstein, Louis CK, Kevin Spacey, Matt Lauer, and all the other men like them have in common is that they violated women within their ring of influence and power. They rendered their victims speechless for years because of the stigma attached to those who have been sexually assaulted or harassed. So if you think these victims speaking out against the monsters who took their voice away for so long is some sort of disservice to men everywhere…aka, if you’re more concerned about how you’ll get the next notch on your bedpost than women who have literally been raped by these high-status cowards, you are most DEFINITELY going to have a hard time asking a woman out post-Weinstein.
Men should not think it is difficult to ask a woman out post-Weinstein. It’s sad to think that some men are actually fearful of talking to or approaching women because they’re scared of the repercussions. Come on. A simple phrase that one would easily think would solve this is “we’re all adults here.” Are we though? If we we’re all adults, Woody Allen wouldn’t call this post-Weinstein era a “witch hunt.” There’s a reason women walk home at night with their keys in hand, try to not walk alone, and always have their guard up. This isn’t just a post-Weinstein problem. Yes, sexual harassment is more out in the open than it was before but those men who are scared to ask women out… are probably the ones sexually harassing women. It’s not complicated to be kind, respectful, or courteous towards a woman. Asking a woman if they feel comfortable even goes a long way.
I think it is wonderful to point out how far outside normal behavior these sexual harassers behaviors are and part of me thinks it’s silly or maybe concerning for men to be worried that asking somebody out could ever somehow look like this. Part of me is pissed off that in the light of such serious events some men will come out of the woodwork to make it about them with veiled requests for reassurance that of course they have permission from women to not worry about this being them. I think instead it is more productive to take this as an opportunity to say “No, you know what? You’re probably not doing enough to not be like Weinstein.”
It is a chance to say that efforts should not stop at ensuring you aren’t a sexual harasser, but at furthering consent culture. Make sure that you are not asking out women who are your employees, or are on the job and will have to risk their livelihoods if they need to make a scene or give a harder no. Make sure you are listening to body language, that if a woman feels pressured to make a soft rejection that you are hearing it. Make sure that you are behaving in a way that makes women and people around you feel that if they came to you with concerns of harassment or assault, that you would listen to them and be on their side. That is how a man makes sure he is not like Harvey Weinstein: by being the kind of man that helps building the ground to make sure that the kind of people and men like Weinstein will die out.
It was very frustrating to see this type of reaction coming from men post-Weinstein and many other sexual harassment allegations that had gone viral — it showed that, rather than sympathize with the victims and condemn the harassers, men were instead “restricted” from being more forceful in their dating game out of fear of being seen as “sexual harassers”. There’s a very simple solution to asking a woman out post-Weinstein, and that’s: respectfully asking someone if she wants to go on a date, and not forcing the issue if she tells you no. This should be the default action all men should have adhered to even before the sexual harassment allegations begun. To associate asking a woman out with sexual harassment raises major red flags in how men generally behave when it comes to pursuing romantic interest, as sexual harassment is defined as “making unwanted sexual advances and/or obscene remarks”. In no way should any man considering asking someone out on a date think, “is it sexual harassment if I do this/that?”
just on my previous comment here there’s one thing I did forget. now it seems we live in an age where people are quick to play the harassment card. how do we really know what constitutes harassment when there are some behaviours that a person can exhibit that are sometimes in their nature? for example, there are people out there who don’t like hugs while other people don’t mind them and what a person may not think is inappropriate might be inappropriate to somebody else but this could be because it’s in that person’s nature. some people are naturally affectionate while others aren’t so.
Ask. And notice what their responses when you do ask.
I am also a big hugger and I am a mentor for a high school girl. When we go on pair expeditions and I say goodbye afterwords I feel like it’s kind of cold just to say goodbye and I want to give her a hug. So I’ve asked if I could give her a hug and she says yes. But I notice that she seems pretty stiff despite saying yes. So I stopped giving her hugs. In our case the mentor program had encouraged each pair to create their own greeting handshake, so now I just use it for both greetings and goodbyes– Like aloha. It puts a little more energy and personality into the goodbye and seems less cold.
If someone is left uncomfortable a gesture doesn’t create what you want it to create, does it?
I don’t think there should be any confusion on how to ask a girl out even with the passed events concerning Weinstein. Men should have always known that it is not okay to grab a woman’s crotch or to force her to have sex with you in order to further her career. The fact that men are confused on how they should now act is insane. It’s pretty simple: be respectful of a woman. It is not that hard. Men need to learn to value women for things other than sex. Women have always been individuals who deserve respect regardless of their gender. Women have just as much to offer to the world as men and as soon as men start to realize that women aren’t just good for having sex and making babies they sooner they will earn the respect of women. So how exactly do you ask out a woman post Weinstein? You ask her first of all and you do not force yourself upon her.
I can see why some men are confused about how to ask a girl out, some women like it when men are bold when asking them out and if they don’t they are considered wimps or “too soft” for them or too shy. And then there are the brutes that come on too confident and grab you and even when you push them away they still don’t get the message and you have to cuss them out for them to back off. In my opinion, both genders are to blame for this, some men for being too dumb and not having common sense and some women for not setting men an example of what is right or wrong.
There have been so many charges coming out i wonder if men are also going to come out with cases where they have been harassed by women. I have not seen any yet, but i imagine some will eventually pop up. There is a double standard where men would look unmanly if he complained about a woman touching him, i remember watching a commercial as a child it was a woman grabbing a random guy’s behind while walking by him, they would not show it the other way around.
OK, but the things that Harvey Weinstein and the others are accused of seem pretty self evident to me that no one should do.
I have a deep love/hate relationship with this post. Yes, it’s becoming obvious that these things need to be said, and I appreciate your concise list, complete with examples, but why? Why does it need to be explained that “do you want to go get coffee with me?” is different from “do you want to watch me touch myself?” That “you look beautiful” or “that’s a nice dress” is different from “show me your tits?”
I personally feel as though all of those bullet points are common sense, and it surprises me that to some people they aren’t. Somehow, to some men (and women) these things are acceptable? I also feel as though if, as a society, we’re asking if it’s even okay to ask a woman out anymore, something’s been lost. It’s not as though there’s a fine line between interest and harassment.
I love this post so much. There are so many men today who are confused about how to approach women with all these sexual allegations coming out. You said it best “common courtesy and common sense”, it shouldn’t be difficult at all. It’s also laughable how men are fearing this is a “witch hunt” because if you’re scared you might get accused of something, then you probably did something wrong, otherwise there should be no fear of a “witch hunt”. No should always mean no and consent should be given, these are simple things that many people seem to forget. There shouldn’t have to be a set of rules or a handbook on how to ask women out, just as there isn’t one to just be a decent human being. The simplest thing a man can to when approaching a woman is to just respect her and her boundaries and to not make a scene, put her down, or become forceful upon her if you get rejected.
My first reaction was that this question was laughable, but it only shows that a large part of our population is inherently sexist. That being said, I recognize the deep rooted problems in our society, that do produce men that are egotistical, sexist, narcissistic, etc. That being said, we have a larger problem at hand to deal with, that would arguably take care of this issue and others, if addressed. I understand that as a general public we need to be sensitive to the fact that so many women have been objectified and sexually harassed, if not assaulted, but in our more intimate lives, a simple question of “Would you like to have dinner with me?” should suffice. It’s ridiculous that we have to make a list of ways “not to” ask a women out, I think it’s
safe bet that the men that would need to read this list, are not interested in what women think, and that’s the larger issue. Treat women like you’d want the other women in your life to be treated!
These sorts of questions pop up because, in spite of all the advancements towards gender equality American society has made over the past half century, women are seen to fulfill man’s sexual desires, be it for pleasure or procreation. These ingrained cultural notions do not just fall away because of equality under the law. Consent and other forms of social training have to take place at the home and school.
Tangential to this question, mens inability to view woman as fully realized and complex people not only puts women in physical danger but negatively impacts their social and professional latitude. As a testament to his morality, Vice President Pence said that he would not meet with a woman without his wife present. Are men such dogs or are women so wanton that a man could not even have a one on one meeting without sexual conduct taking place? If this moral code was followed, door after door of opportunity would be closed to over half of the population.
One of my favorite quotes is from the movie Casino. “Look, why take a chance. At least that’s the way I feel about it.” Link below
Vice President Pence is protecting himself. What does he have to gain by meeting with women without his wife compared to what he could lose? I’m not saying that everyone should adopt this practice but I don’t fault people for taking a stance like his. “Why take a chance” on he said she said? All it takes is an accusation to ruin a person’s career. Allegations are front page news, acquittals are not. I think most allegations are true but “why take a chance” on that one false allegation.
Ok. But the things these men were accused of seem to be pretty obviously things no one should do.
I find it interesting and very concerning that these questions about men approaching women post-Weinstein are circulating and I too have heard and seen people on social media ask the same questions. Though I have little understanding on why a man would wonder how they could approach women now that sexual harassment issues have come to light more than ever, I do however have my own interpretation on the matter. I believe that most of the time, if not all, a person who asks such question is at least a little bit aware that some of their behavior cross boundaries, whether or not they admit it to themselves. Men who are aware of personal spaces and respectful of boundaries would not need to wonder whether his approach to women is threatening or strange. So how does a man ask a woman out post-Weinstein? I suppose, by not taking advances and treating them like a normal human being that they are?
This succinct article is perfect in responding to the question of “how does a man ask out a woman post-Weinstein?” Sexual harassment is entirely easy to spot and it shouldn’t be that difficult for a man to understand when he might be crossing the line, especially if the woman he means to flirt with is telling him so. I also think a good amount of the men asking how to approach women without being called out for sexual harassment are defensive because of their own past actions that may have been inappropriate, and that they may not want to stop doing. These men may be trying to shut down women wanting reasonable boundaries by asking this question with the intent of accusing them of overreacting. Respecting women doesn’t mean following a set of complicated rules, so the men presenting this question to pretend not to know better have no excuse. As said in this article, “common courtesy and common sense” are all that’s needed in order to have conversations with women. A few men understand this already, and as long as we out those who indisputably harass and assault, the definition of proper behavior should become more unavoidable for those men still feigning confusion.
In a businessplace the boss can fire you. In politics you’re hired and fired by the people who elect you. So I think the culture needs to change, but that all this publicity is helping in that regard. Otherwise, they can get pressure from party leadership.”
As you know despite most americans not wanting changes to net neutrality and congress not wanting the changes either. That dick head Pai, whom Trump set as FCC chairman when he became president. I’m trying to tell my trump friends of how something almost everybody can agree on that’s bad, that trump is part to due with it because if it’s not trump directly, he assigns people who are messing things up. Pai has the nerve to post a video gloating about this being pushed and mocking people in it. And then I’ve read that FCC being corrupt now have used comments on twitter or something from people not even alive, pushing for the changes to spread some propaganda that’s fake.Luckily though, it seems like some politicians and legislators are fighting back. One Pa attorney is suing and noticed the fake comments and others are trying to fight back. It’s happened before where there were back and forth legal battles. I told others that I’m surprised though you might see it soon, which people like Mark Zuckerberg not being happy about net netrualtiy changes. Perhaps amazon too.
The reason is because this could cause Mark losing millions, maybe multi millions of people on facebook. Facebook is one of the sites where if verizon had it’s way, it would be one of the specific sites where people would have to pay extra on their internet package for it. Many people I know who are on facebook, myself included, are on it but we’re not that gung ho on it that we’ll stay. I’ll sign off in a hot second that minute that happens and I can see millions doing so that. Yes people don’t pay to sign up on facebook but people being signed up and staying signed up creates the revenue because of ads and money from that. Less people using it means less ad revenue for Facebook and Mark. So yes I don’t believe these Ceos would fight for our good, but sometimes there can be a bi product that helps you, since I wonder if Ceos like Mark from Facebook, Twitter and Amazon will sue and this could help because even though they aren’t politicians, they are filthy rich, billionaires, and well billionaires have a lot of power and influence, not to mention powerful attorneys to match FCC’s powerful attorneys.
It’s a shame they changed the rules on net neutrality.
hopefully, like what’s happening, the fight doesn’t end.
I expect the fight to continue! Frankly, getting Democrats elected would help. They wrote the original rule to protect net neutrality that the Republicans voted against.
I am very happy that this unspoken rule is exposed, and many brave women are willing to say what happened to them.I think this is a very significant progress, so that workplace sexual harassment is once again widely discussed.How Does A Man Ask A Woman Out Post-Weinstein?In my opinion, the most important point to invite a woman to go out is to respect their feelings. First, find out the commonalities between you and then use that to attract each other. Do not think of sex as the ultimate goal of this appointment, but with a relaxed and pleasant mood, I think it would be better.
I totally agree with this article. Use common sense and courtesy when you want to ask a female out. You shouldn’t be doing any of the things listed. You also have to know if you want to ask this person out because you truly like them and want to know or you just want a fling.
What about a non-seeing person who wants to ask a woman out but needs to feel her face first to know what she looks like?
Why is it important to know what she looks like? That’s the outer shell and really doesn’t mean anything.
Well the rest of the seeing world cares about it a lot.
Yes. And so superficial.
I wrote that short post, but I don’t know if you’re just answering really short posts, but I think it;s important. Keeping net neutrality, it’s so much more than internet costs, speed and such. Censoring the internet is a dangerous game. Portugal and other countries are an example.
That’ really how fake news and propaganda can start and the ridiculous monopoly verizon and comcast already have even more amped up. Will that be something you might at-least add to the bottom of your next blog post? The importance of this, as many people might know of it, but not how it works and how important it is to vote against the changes the republicans off the FCC are trying to vote in on December 14th I think.
Net neutrality is so important. Elites are trying to take over everything. Including the Internet.
I think it’s good to further awareness though. The more people make the public aware of this and maybe through blogposts the more people can take it serious and learn and protest.
You know politics and work with congress so are you trying to do something about this and is there are better course of action for me And others to simply call our congressman/woman?
I’m specialized on poverty issues. I do things to help people get out of poverty like having a living wage (earned income tax credit), infrastructure jobs, children getting proper education/healthcare/food, childcare so that mom can work, savings incentives for poor people…
Having a heckuva time with this with the current crop of Republicans. Much of this used to be bi-partisan until billionaire libertarians commandeered the Republican party.
What can we do? The general public other than call our representatives? Is there anything else additionally to it that can be done?
In a businessplace the boss can fire you. In politics you’re hired and fired by the people who elect you. So I think the culture needs to change, but that all this publicity is helping in that regard. Otherwise, they can get pressure from party leadership.
This reminds me of an episode of a talk show on YouTube that I watched the other day about Charlie Rose being fired after sexual harassment allegations. The male host asked whether interpersonal communication between two coworkers (i.e. a text message asking to hang out) could now be interpreted as sexual misconduct. His co-host immediately responded saying that that’s just not a fair statement. It’s like saying white people are afraid to talk to black people because it’s even more pronounced now that racism exists and it’s bad. It’s just a cop-out. It’s really very simple – don’t be racist. Don’t be a sexual harasser!
As far as a “witch hunt,” I sure hope we clean house in the film industry, and in every industry. I could care less if sexual assault perpetrators are fearful. Stay fearful, the truth will always find a way of revealing itself, and now, there’s no more hiding. In clearing out these predators, I hope the culture changes as well, and that Hollywood isn’t just firing people just to make the drama and negative publicity go away. I think it’s important to stay passionate and listen to victims as they come forward, and actively working towards equal, professional, and comfortable environments in the workplace.
It’s amazing to me that a lot of men can’t figure out that inviting someone to hang out is different from the bullet points above. Golden rule: how would you like to be treated?
Yeah, I don’t see what is so hard about understanding what these men did to women and how id DOESN’T affect you at all. What they did was extremely gross and inappropriate. You shouldn’t be afraid to approach someone because you think your actions might come off as you sexually assaulting them. As long as you aren’t doing what the article lists you should be fine. Like everyone who commented before me just have respect for women and people in general.
I wonder how someone in a higher position would actually approach someone that works with him or her. I feel like now it would be a much tougher on a guy approaching a female co-worker than a female approaching a male co-worker. I guess it kind of makes sense to why people are asking questions about how to ask someone out now. People probably see asking someone out now as almost some kind of ultimatum. At least with people who have some kind of power.
Sometimes there are things that might be mistaken for sexual
Sure. But not the things I listed. Should be pretty obvious.
If I ask a girl out and we are suddenly on a date, how am I supposed to make a move on her post-Weinstein? Just asking for all the socially awkward people out there.
The things some men worry about seem so obvious. The bullet points I list are just obvious, right? I’m guessing you have enough sense to not do any of those things.
So you go on a date and maybe hold her hand. She accepted the date so that’s probably a safe move. If she rejects you hand, don’t hold it (and it’s probably not a good match). When you say goodbye you can say something like, “I would really like to kiss you,” And see what her reaction is. Does she smile, seem pleased…
Otherwise, see this article:
Yes means Yes: Consent is Sexy
Unbelievable…. that this guys had the courage to do such stupidity….
The fact that this guy is asking how he is supposed to court women post all of these accusations of sexual assault in Hollywood and most corporations demonstrates the deep gap of mistrust which has formed itself between men and women in today’s society. It seems to me that many men need to understand that this distrust was not created by women, for a majority of women have formed an ill opinion and sense of wariness around most men and for good reason. Men have always mistreated women and so now, the punishment for such cruelty and disrespect is itself harshly punished. All that men need to do is treat women in the dating seen with consensual respect; always asking for permission instead of asking for forgiveness later. At the same time however, some women have taken this current switch in cultural dominance to punish men.
Not longer than 4 weeks ago, a woman I was speaking to at a bar became very upset with me when I refused to buy her and her friend a drink because I wasn’t going to be drinking myself. She called me a selfish, sexist individual for the refusal and assumed that I thought I was better than her. I kept a level head and walked away from the encounter. I think that’s the trick here, sticking up for women’s rights and walking away from those who would frame you with lies. If men did just that, there wouldn’t be cause to accuse them of much.
Thanks for making these important points. It makes no sense that you should have to pay for someone’s drink if you believe in equality. Equality would be men and women equally purchasing drinks for each other.
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Here is my takeaway on this piece. Once again, your narrative is clearly anti male. But, as you are a modern feminist, that is to be expected,
Let’s look at the men who have been accused of sexual misconduct. I want to focus exclusively on those men whom I regard as heterosexual. If you look at these men, they are all what I consider to be unattractive (though high status) men. Further, a few of them are actually male feminist. Whether it is Louis CK, Al Franken, Roy Moore, etc. Most of these men are unattractive. As such, most women do not want to be with them. They will gladly use them for their own purposes. But, sex is NOT one of them.
What this really says is that women do NOT want this kind of attention from weak, unattractive, “beta male” type men. So, it is really not so much about their behavior per se. Rather, it is the type of man exhibiting this sort of behavior. If David Beckham were in a room with a woman then suddenly took out his cock and started masturbating, the vast majority of women would NOT find HIS behavior offensive.
This sort of logic and thinking on the part of women is seriously flawed. It is akin to a good looking woman breaking the law versus a not so good looking woman breaking the law. They both are law breakers. So, you cannot give a pass to one because she is good looking. But, today women are doing exactly this silly thing. While simultaneously yelling at the top of their lungs about “equality.” Really. How about treating all men equally? Maybe that would give your argument some moral credibility.
Most men are deemed unattractive and hence creeps. As such, any action by your typical man is now viewed as “creepy” by most women. I have never seen a woman refer to a good looking man as “creepy.” He could be a criminal and most women would still give him a free pass. Why look at how criminal defense attorneys seek to stack their jury with as many women as possible, especially if the defendant is an attractive man.
My point is women cannot and must not be the sole arbiters of what is good and bad behavior. Nor should women solely determine what is offensive behavior by men. Why? Because, there is a clear bias on the part of women towards attractive men. Bill Clinton is a prime example. Even with evidence and large settlements paid to his accusers, most women flatly refuse to think he is a pig. This is how women would apply things based on their thinking.
This is the fundamental difference between men and women. As I have stated on many occasions, women are not nearly as concerned about matters such as equality (only as it pertains to THEM), justice, morality, liberty, etc. You are just not. If I am wrong, please prove me wrong. Leaving this solely up to women is unfair and unequal to not just men but to society. Our laws and moral codes cannot be based upon attraction. All men (and women) are equal before the law. Men believe this to be true. Most women do not.
Really?! You think this advice is anti-male. Then you have a warped notion of what a good man is.
It doesn’t some so complicated to me. Like this:
Don’t meet a woman while wearing an open bathrobe — or anything like that, a la Harvey Weinstein.
Don’t grab a woman’s breasts or rub your erection up against her, a la Mark Halperin.
No crotch-groping, a la Kevin Spacey and Donald Trump
Don’t proposition 14-year-olds, a la Roy Moore
Don’t ask a woman to watch you masturbate, a la Louis C.K.
Don’t keep pushing for sex when she says she’s not interested.
Don’t suggest her career will be ruined if she doesn’t have sex with you.
Be aware of power differentials that can leave women fearing retribution if they refuse or if they complain about sexual harassment.
Don’t sleep with your step-daughter.
Otherwise, attractive powerful men have been accused of sexual harassment too, including Donald Trump, Bill Clinton, Charlie Rose…
It’s a question of being treated respectfully.
“Then you have a warped notion of what a good man is.”
I beg to differ. I can assure you that my standards of decency, respectability, and morality are far higher than most men and certainly most women.
Then how are the bullet points anti-male? Anyone should know not to behave that way.
“how does a man ask a woman out post-Weinstein?”
Really? I would think that all the scandals have made it very clear that that is not how women like to be treated. But apparently men are victims too here, poor guys, they’re afraid of women now.
Yeah. When they actually only need common courtesy.
The fact that this is even an article, is pretty disgusting. What has happened to our society that we have to put in structure rules about how to properly conduct one’s self when it comes to interacting with females. One would think that these rules would be common sense, but to the perverted and those with every disregard for women, these rules have to be explicitly defined. Never in my life that I think it was acceptable to even touch someone without their consent let alone grab their genitals or other private parts! As a society, I think it is important for us to maintain safe spaces and report any and everyone that has defied and intentionally overstepped such laws and personal spaces before we lose all sense of ourselves in terms on respect for one another in our society.
Yeah, pretty amazing — and horrifying — that some people wonder about this, isn’t it?
it seems crazy but also don’t trick fans into threesome’s ala Sly Stallone style. my advice to anyone who are confused how to ask a women out now is “best you don’t ” ☺😎☺
Good advice. If you can’t figure it out, don’t.
How Does A Man Ask Out A Woman Post-Weinstein
This in fact shouldn’t even be a question. Men should always respect a woman and her beliefs and values. Many men are belittled when they are turned down after they ask a woman out. A woman doesn’t have to always say yes to a man just to be nice. If a woman is not interested, she is simply not interested. Respectfully declining a date is more than sufficient. When men are in a powerful position they very often see themselves as more than other men which automatically gets to their head suggesting that anyone would be lucky to go on a date with them. When a woman with a less powerful position declines a man of this type this is where very often the abusive pressure comes about. Very often men are super obsessed and over pressure woman on going out with them. Constantly pressuring woman for sex is only going to push them further away. The only way to gain a woman’s interest and respect is by not pressuring and letting everything go at it’s own pace.
Really, what’s so hard?
How does a man ask a woman out post-Weinstein? That is not a hard question, the answer is to ask with respect and consideration for the woman and situation. By respect for the situation I mean if you are in a position of power, for example all of these Hollywood stars being outed as predators, wait until the woman is in an equal position or until they are not working for/with you so then power doesn’t influence their response. By being respectful and treating women as humans, there won’t be the “witch hunt” Woody Allen suggests will happen. The only reason why there will be a “witch hunt” is that those “witches” are actually sex offenders, rapists, molester’s, pedophiles, or any other predator. There should be a “witch hunt” to free Hollywood from the exploitation of power causing sexual abuse. This wave of outcry is bringing justice to the all of the victims, it does not affect how men are supposed to ask out women, asking out a woman never involved physically, visually, verbally, or implicitly harassing them. If not doing any of these actions hinder’s asking someone out, then you aren’t asking them out, you’re harassing and/or assaulting them.
Yes, exactly. It’s really not that hard.
Yeah seems or you’d think should be pretty obvious. Let’s add Steven Seagal to that list. That guy is such a piece of shit. I’m not surprised about the allegations on him with multiple sexual harassments considering this dirt bag in know to have beat up his ex wives or girl friends. Basically a serial woman beater, so if a man doesn’t give a shit about women, you think he cares if he sexually harasses her or assaults her. He’s also known to be very difficult on the set and just an asshole. The dude works for Russia now or something….why am I not surprised about that either now.
Yeeesh! Someone to stay away from.
Damn, and I used to find his movies such a guilty pleasure too! That said, he wouldn’t be the first actor I liked who’s disappointed me through his off-screen actions – there’s also Mel Gibson (religious nutjob, as well as raving anti-Semite, misogynist, racist, and just generally all-round unpleasant guy), Chuck Norris (total wingnut), and Tom Cruise (public face of the dangerous cult that is Scientology), just to name a few.
Here’s a link http://mashable.com/2017/11/09/portia-de-rossi-steven-seagal-sexual-harassment/#5YrczzNqA5qM
Portia de Rossi ✔@portiaderossi
My final audition for a Steven Segal movie took place in his office. He told me how important it was to have chemistry off-screen as he sat me down and unzipped his leather pants. I ran out and called my agent. Unfazed, she replied, “well, I didn’t know if he was your type.”
Julianna Margulies recounted to Sirius XM’s “Just Jenny” her experience with Seagal, who she met in a hotel room after a casting director told her he wanted to rehearse a scene:
“He made sure that I saw his gun, which I had never seen a gun in real life,” she said. “I got out of there unscathed. I never was raped, and I never was harmed. I don’t know how I got out of that hotel room.”
Lisa Guerrero 💃🏽 ✔@4lisaguerrero
Aaaand another one.
More actresses join me in publicly sharing our horrible and humiliating experiences with Steven Seagal. Thank you Jenny McCarthy, Rae Dawn Chong, Julianna Margulies & now Portia de Rossi. #MeToo #Enough #NoMore http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/amp/news/steven-seagal-a-silk-kimono-a-private-rehearsal-one-actress-remembers-her-nightmare-audition-1048828 … https://twitter.com/variety/status/928416091054862337 …
Amongst all the bad events from the male actors and while Seagal is getting attention. I don’t think many realize what a horrible person, disgusting human being he is. This all shows that and the link below. He’s one of the worst of the worst as far as hollywood men when you see all this shit from him through many many years.
Don’t tell her it’s a business meeting, that can only be her and you. In a hotel. Late in the evening.
Don’t have pimps tell the same thing. And bring her to the “meeting”. And get pissed off when the Victim. I mean date, refuses to have the “meeting” alone.
It’s all summed up in the Wil Wheaton Rule: Don’t be a dick.
Love the summation 🙂
“So how do you explain Paula Jones? Women don’t like jerks any more than men like jerks.”
I don’t need to explain it. You were the one who argued that the behavior of Harvey Weinstein if done by Bill Clinton to woman would most likely be consensual. Right?
So, what you were really saying was that it really is not the specific action of the man. Rather it is the man behind the action. If Harvey Weinstein it is bad. If it is Bill Clinton or George Clooney then it is acceptable.
No. I said it as easier for men like Clinton to get consensual sex because he fits what our society says is attractive in a man. Good looking and powerful. That doesn’t mean he can behave in an offensive manner and that’s ok. Even if you’re attractive and powerful there are disrespectful ways of behaving that are offensive. See list above. That includes Clinton, Clooney, Spacey, Trump etc.
Women love dicks. You just have to be a William Jefferson Clinton dick or perhaps a Tom Brady dick. Hey, then it is ALL consensual.
So how do you explain Paula Jones? Women don’t like jerks any more than men like jerks.
You’re getting too hostile so I only approved one of your comments and I edited this one.
Don’t really understand how any of this would change how a man would ask a woman out, or vice versa. For most of us your bullet points are common sense.
My first thought upon seeing that title was “just ask”. It’s not very difficult. You open your mouth, use your vocal chords and form words that go something like “Would you like to go on a date/have dinner with me/see a movie/grab a coffee with me?” Then the person you want to go out with you usually says either “yes” or “no”.
If you are in a position of power over the person you are interested in, don’t. The reason the military has strict rules against dating between officers and non-officers is because they know it is easy to abuse such power.
Yes, as you say, a lot of this stuff is just common courtesy and common sense. It reminds me of something ironic I’ve noticed quite a bit online over the last few years: guys who’re convinced there’s an epidemic of “false rape accusations” ruining men’s lives nowadays, yet who also preach that “a real man never takes ‘No’ for an answer”[*]. Geez, I wonder where all those “false” rape accusations are coming from? Truly a mystery for the ages!
Re your point about power differentials making many women too scared to report sexual harassment in the workplace, some years ago I used to lurk on a blog called “Roissy in DC”, whose creator had, in hindsight, some pretty skeevy views on women (though he often came across as more of a lovable rogue than an actual predator). Anyway, his blog attracted a lot of individuals with some decidedly retrograde views towards women as well, though there was one guy who used to comment on it whose views were too extreme even for most of the other regulars. Some Norwegian guy called Eivind Berge, he believed that any woman working for a male boss should understand and accept that one of the conditions of her job (unless her contract specifically stated otherwise) would be having sex with her employer whenever he demanded it. Anyway, as I said, this was going a bit too far even for many of the other regular commenters, who promptly called him out on his BS (that said, given what a sewer said blog has since degenerated into, his ideas would probably get a much warmer reception there today!).
Re Roy Moore, I’ve sort of been following his story with morbid fascination. Thankfully, where I live (Australia), our elected representatives aren’t *quite* as unhinged as a lot of the ones in your part of the world seem to be (thankfully, any politician seeking election here doesn’t have to reassure voters how much he loves JEEEEEZUS to have a hope of being voted into office); that said, some of them are starting to show disturbing theocratic tendencies. I saw an item on Roy Moore on the news here tonight, and I was stunned by how many Alabamians said they were still going to vote for him, despite the revelations he’s pretty much a child molester. Freaking hell! Some people are beyond help!
[*]Many of these same individuals also seem to be paranoid about something called “creep-shaming”, which, to hear them talk about it, is some gross violation of men’s human rights that Amnesty International really ought to look into one of these days. Yet – surprise, surprise – many of those that go on about this supposed great evil admit to acting in a decidedly stalkerish and creepy manner themselves!
“I’ve noticed quite a bit online over the last few years: guys who’re convinced there’s an epidemic of “false rape accusations” ruining men’s lives nowadays, yet who also preach that “a real man never takes ‘No’ for an answer””
And the Alabamans make you wonder what’s wrong with them.
Yes, exactly. It is not that complicated.
sexual harassment is somewhat of a broad term. lately I’ve been a stickler for trying to avoid even getting too close even if consent is given. Consent being the operative word. You hear stories where women are raped and the perpetrator maintains that the contact was consentual when in reality it wasn’t I know for a fact that the minute I meet a woman I’m not just going to ask to feel her face to see what she looked like although admittedly I have done that with consent of course but ordinarily I wouldn’t I would most certainly wait until enough trust has been built up. But as we all know sexual harassment isn’t just about touching or groping it’s words too in the way of jybes and sexually explicit comments and images displayed along with text messages If I was going to ask a girl out, being that I can’t see and going on the voice. Some women can sound extremely young by their voice even if they’re in their 20’s or 30’s but it’s said that to ask a woman’s age is considered rude. I’m going off topic here but there are elements here that do fit.
Yeah, just use common sense. How would you like to be treated, right?