Why Don’t Men Slut-Shame Men?
The sexual double standard.
Women are more likely than men to slut-shame women.
Yet men don’t seem to shame men for having sex. Ever.
Instead, the sexual “conqueror” gets high-fives from guys who praise his prowess.
What’s up with that?
Why do women slut-shame more?
Men seem less likely to slut-shame because they get less sex when women are punished.
So why do women so often harass each other?
Keep in mind that slut-shaming increases along with the target’s perceived attractiveness. So clearly, some see “sexy lady” as a threat to their own ability to attract men. And looks are commonly seen as a woman’s only tool of attraction.
But also, in our culture a woman’s worth is based primarily on her looks. So women may feel put down by the mere presence of a hot lady.
Why don’t men slut-shame men?
But why don’t men slut-shame men?
First, men aren’t expected to sit back and passively draw partners through the mere power of their looks. And because men aren’t narrowly objectified they can draw on other resources like personality, humor, status or monetary resources.
Of course, guys can still be disparaged for being “too pretty” — so “they must be gay.” But never slutty.
Proving manhood thru male bonding
While women’s self-esteem is most often grounded in looks, men’s self-esteem is more often based on bedding women.
Meanwhile, men constantly work to prove their manhood and they gain a sense of acceptance into the brotherhood by praising other guys for nailing girls.
Plus, sexual “conquest” helps “prove” male superiority (men conquering women) which bestows higher status on all men in this particular war of the sexes.
Related Posts
- Women Slut-Shame More Than Men?
- Virginity: Double Binds & Double Standards
- How’s The Double Standard Make Sense?
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Posted on January 30, 2017, in men, sex and sexuality, women and tagged proving manhood, sexual double standard, slut shaming, why do women slut-shame, Why don't men slut-shame men?. Bookmark the permalink. 130 Comments.
BroadBlogs 
Yeah, just one fact correction here, most guys don’t congratulate a guy who goes on about his conquests, most guys just think they are bloody idiots
One of my best mates use to sleep around alot, use to brag about it as well,
NONE of us congratulated, we actually told him to keep it in his pants
The guys who do congratulate a guy like that are just as bad as the “conquest” itself
Interesting to hear. Maybe things are changing or things work differently in different subcultures. I know that sometimes men are now called man–whores now, and so that is certainly a different attitude. Of course the fact that you don’t call a woman a woman-whore tells you what’s considered normal and what’s new.
Thanks for this wonderful phrase of this article
You’re welcome.
In todays society slut shaming is a very real thing that occurs quit frequently. Women are often shamed by other women for having sex or getting intimate with other males. In my opinion I believe that women should be encouraging one another rather than tearing each other down. More often then not you see women constantly in competition with one another while on the rare occasion you see women rooting for another women. In the recent years we have seen women start cheering for each other due to feminism being on the rise, thankfully things are starting to change. But I was and still am curious as to why men don’t slut shame other men. Men are usually rewarded with a high five or slap on the back for having intercourse with women. While women on the other hand degrade one another. I think a big contributing factor to the whole “women slut shaming other women” is that a women’s biggest enemy is another women. I feel like men are always looking out for each other, that could be how the whole “wing man” thing started…I might be on to something! I still am curious as to why it is more socially acceptable for men to be with more women then it is women to be with more men. The only thing I came up with is that men root for each other more then women do.
I was always curious as to why men don’t slut shame other men. Ever since I can remember, in my middle where I grew up it was known to be “ghetto” and in middle school were all pre-teens (I suppose) and girls at my middle school were always trying to act older and tougher than everyone else. I remember witnessing girls trash talking and slut shaming each other. Whether it was about what guy they were sneaking around with, to the poor girl’s body image. It’s sad how girls constantly attack other girls on unimportant drama or factors. However, for guys I feel that they have to prove themselves and be a display of a “macho man” they are. Men rarely slut shame other men. Men in today’s society only seek for approval in other men. For example, when a guy hooks up with a girl they often go and tell their guy friends how it was like and how she was because the guy wants to feel like they fit in with their friends. Overall, I think this whole concept of slut shaming is super debatable but should definitely be stopped and come to an end because its a shady way of categorizing women.
There is an inevitable double standard when it comes to shaming women for their sexual experiences. Men are praised left and right for “scoring” on a night out. On the other hand, women are constantly being torn down and have to do what is known as the “walk of shame”. It is rare to see a man called out for doing the exact same thing. I have personally heard one guy call another out, but only because he wanted to “hit it” first. It is only as if calling men out is only okay when it is convenient for the individual doing the calling out.
Yeah, men aren’t really shamed the way women are. And all of this shaming ends up hurting everyone.
Here’s a quiet protest from a student in Amsterdam, she too was accused of being a whore and a slut, and decided to stand up for herself.
https://m.facebook.com/plugins/video.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fmilou.deelen%2Fvideos%2F1243208845726892%2F&show_text=1&width=560
Even in progressive Amsterdam! Sad. Thanks for sharing.
Yes, this girl was in a student fraternity/sorority. They can be quite old-fashioned and sexist. I have studied at the University of Amsterdam in the early nineties, was never a member of any club, not many people studying Russian were, and have never experienced or witnessed what this girl says, luckily. I think it’s particularly a problem with these old student fraternities, that stick to ancient traditions and are sort of exclusive and elitist.
So I guess that at least some parts of Europe have some of the same problems that we have here. Thanks for sharing about this.
The short answer seems to be that the repercussions of isolated sexual experiences (especially pregnancy) can be more evident in women than men, as well as a difference in thought processes between the two genders. Whether or not the realities of long-term consequences are avoidable varies from one sex to the other. Of course there are exceptions to the rules, but generally speaking this appears to be the state of the matter.
Additionally, women tend to be more emotionally involved than men in the sexual experience. Whether societal or biological tendencies are involved, there is typically a difference. Men can more thoroughly enjoy the conquest as a means of physical satisfaction, whereas women often tend to plan ahead for an emotionally stable environment. Women shame women because they are competition in a limited arena of suitable men willing to live outside of a consequence-free life. It makes sense then for women to shame each other for partaking in the casual sex scene, because if she shifts to a relationship focus down the road then she is already labeled and out of the running.
Do you see how things don’t have to be this way. They aren’t always this way in every culture. They are this way and patriarchies.
I’m really curious to why “nailing girls” is male bonding, because it’s hurtful. It’s harmful to guys for not being able to see or use emotions. Emotions are important to tell what is right from wrong, and men who partake in the activities are just seeing this as meaningless. There is no care in if the girl is hurt by it, while it also hurts himself. It’s constricting I feel.
Is it because women are slut shamed by other women because they get jealous if they are getting more attention? Or is it because they’re looking through the prospective of patriarchy by women seeing it normal to slut shame? It’s weird because short skirts aren’t seen as modest and yet it’s an excuse to being a “tease”, even if women just want to be comfortable in their style of wear. I really see the double standard in this, because no matter what women wear it is really prude, like a slob, or slutty. Men don’t get shamed for what they wear unless it’s their jeans hanging low. I think that’s when men try to dress “sexy” in anyway it’s constricted as well. So I believe that is why men aren’t slut shamed as often because they back away from that as soon as possible. It doesn’t show curves like girls either, but it maybe some type of attention to not be labeled as “gay”.
Yeah It’s both crazy and sad, isn’t it? It teaches men to see women as things that they use to gain points with each other. Even if it hurts the woman when they shame her.
And it comes out of patriarchy. Men over women. Men are free, women are not. Men are celebrated, women are humiliated.
What is the evidence for women slut shaming women more than men slut shaming women? I can’t read the comments on this article right now, so I apologize if this was already explained.
The reason I ask is because I’m not sure it’s true. The time I see most guys not happy with slut-shamming is when one is hoping to sleep with a particular woman at that time. Only in individual instances like that, when a man hoping to get laid doesn’t want a particular woman to reject him out of fear of being slutty for hooking up with him, is when he’ll be unhappy about it. It doesn’t go beyond that though. If it did they would want the double standard to end but do we see that? Do the men unhappy about not getting laid due to a woman’s fear of seeming slutty, reject participation in slut shaming of other women? Do they stop high-fiving men who “score” with a lot of women? Do they stop devaluing women for their sexual history and number of partners? If the answer is not, yes, then they aren’t unhappy with the double standard, they’re just unhappy about the double standard backfiring on them. They don’t care to or even don’t want to end the double standard that results in slut-shaming of women, they just want their game to be so strong that women don’t worry about being slutty with them.
Men and women have both internalized a culture where slut-shaming women is normal. And the gap is narrowing. I mentioned before that one of my students was shamed pretty badly, And mostly by women. And that’s probably because men have more incentive to stop it because they lose out more. Their sexuality is less damaged and they want it more.
Sorry I didn’t get back to your original question sooner, But I have answered it by now so take a look at what I wrote there. (I rarely check comments over the weekend and even once the work week starts it can take me a while to catch up.)
Here are a couple paraphrased quotes from the textbook I use:
“In a review of a large number of studies on actual attitudes and behavior, Mary Oliver and Janet Hyde found that women reported much more negative attitudes than men about casual premarital sex. Women were moderately less approving than men of extramarital sex and of premarital sex when couples are committed or engaged. They were somewhat more likely to feel anxious and guilty about sex and to endorse the double standard. No gender differences were found in attitudes toward masturbation.
“In general, gender differences in attitudes narrowed as people got older. Gender differences also diminished from the 1960s through the 1990s. Men around the world are more likely than women to rate sex as important and to report greater physical and emotional pleasure from it.”
Here’s a link http://psycnet.apa.org/index.cfm?fa=buy.optionToBuy&id=1993-41182-001
These two paragraphs are probably related. When you live in a society that punishes women’s sexuality and objectifies women and judges their worth based on their level of attractiveness it’s not surprising that women would actually end up slut-shaming more than men do. Or that the gap would narrow as we become less punishing of women.
As women’s sexual desire and response is harmed by a society that punishes their sexuality (and it has, study after study finds nearly half of women with major sexual dysfunction like low interest, difficulty with orgasm and painful sex), women have less interest in having sex. So they don’t have the countervailing desire to remove shaming that men have. Probably because why make it easier to have sex when you’re not interested? And they don’t understand that their own shaming is part of the reason why they have a hard time enjoying sex. They just seem to think that their level of desire is natural and not affected by society.
So they have less motivation to stop the slut-shaming.
And it can be used as a weapon against women who are perceived as more attractive than themselves — given that women are objectified and judged based on their level of attractiveness. In fact, Women are much more likely to slut-shame women who are attractive than women who have a lot of random sex.
And like they said, as our society grows more sex-positive and women are valued for more than just their looks, the gender gap in slut-shaming narrows.
But women are still more punished for their sexuality. Girls still commit suicide from being shamed. One of my own students was taken out of her middle school and homeschooled due to slut-shaming (because of how she looked not because of how she behaved) and put on 24 hour suicide watch. The slut-shaming came much more strongly from the girls in her school than from the boys.
You see the super bowl or any of the commercials? This is the time of the year that even non sports fans watch the superbowl because of the halftime show or commercials, etc. But if you didn’t, I saw two commercials that I thought you’d like and I would share. This is a long one, but powerful one.
And then this one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6u10YPk_34
It’s amazing though seeing the comments how many men it pissed off. Well split like many being defensive thinking it’s attacking men, which it;s not. But like you’ve said, our culture. But some women have gotten upset too. Saying it’s lies. The men getting upset were saying how it’s feminist propaganda and the wage gap is a myth. But regardless of that, there was more too it with how women are valued that I guess is ignored. I don’t care how this is used to you know sell a care and like being used for corporate gains. But then again all commercial ads, especiially for a superbowl are going to be for you to buy for some product of some company. So i guess in that aspect, atleast it was acknowleding realitty and putting focus on to make things better and showing a strong, independent girl to show that she will be valued as much as boys and will fight for it.
I did go to a Super Bowl party and paid almost no attention to the Super Bowl. So I saw these commercials mostly on other shows that were commenting on them. I guess when they’re controversial they get a lot more eyeballs.
I read somewhere that most Republican men think that women have more rights than they do. Pretty much every other demographic disagreed with that. And most Republican men were unaware of how much sexism women face, since men don’t face it it’s invisible to them. And you are right, men often think this is about hating men when it’s actually about saying the system should be more fair.
This thing about the wall is it seems like people would build ladders — it’s just not that hard to get on the other side of the wall, So it seems like a waste of money. And most of the jobs taken by Mexicans are jobs that no one else will take, like picking strawberries or working in hotel rooms.
But the bigger threat is automation. Companies may not send their jobs to Mexico but they will just figure out a way to automate them. Which is why we will eventually need to figure out how people can survive when most of the jobs are automated. Some think we will need a minimum income for everyone with some incentive to take jobs where you need them. More training for entrepreneurs and things like that.
“I read somewhere that most Republican men think that women have more rights than they do. Pretty much every other demographic disagreed with that. ”
Well, I guess it depends on how you define the word “rights.” I think most Republican men, who are overwhelmingly white men, would define rights in terms of Bill of Rights. That is freedoms of speech….They would also include things such as rights in terms of family law in divorce proceeding where men are rarely even granted joint custody or the general fairness of the family court system.
Also, time and time again we see cases where women are given lighter sentences in criminal proceeding involving rape and/or sexual assault when compared to men who commit the same or similar type crimes.
Yes, I will agree that men in general tend NOT to see the sexism that women face. Just as whites tend NOT to see the racism that blacks see and experience.
So, yes the system needs to be fair for both parties. Which is why as I have long argued that genuine equality means treating both parties similarly. Rather than giving preferences and protected class status to some and not others.
If it is good for the goose, it is also good for the gander. But, if it is bad for the goose, is it not also bad for the gander?
“I have long argued that genuine equality means treating both parties similarly. Rather than giving preferences and protected class status to some and not others.”
I agree.
PS: sometimes women get stronger sentences than men. One woman had been raped soon after giving birth, Which is both painful and dangerous. When her boyfriend was driving away she through a bottle at his car. She got a heavier sentence because she “Used a weapon.” Even though she was harmed much more than he was.
I feel that men aren’t often slut-shamed in our society because the number of women they have sex with is seen as a form of masculinity. It shows that they are dominant and well liked by women. If it were that men were slut-shamed just as women of today are, I feel there would be different views on exactly what constitutes the term “slut”. For women, being a slut could be many things (well-looking, sleeps around, shows off her assets, ect.) but for a man there is no specific way they could be slut shamed. In our society, attractive men are swooned by women, shirtless men are ogled, and when a man is seen taking a woman home, it is the woman that is the immediate target of slut- shaming. Men too often see it as a token to be able to count the number of women they have had sex with twice over on their hand
Yeah, and I didn’t write in this post about the origins of slut-shaming women. You don’t find it in gender-equal societies. It arises in patriarchies as a way to communicate male superiority: men are free and women are not; men are celebrated and women are shamed for doing the same thing.
Funny that you said that men are celebrated and women are shamed for doing the same thing. You are very right.
If women post sexy selfies then they get many positive comments by men and women but if a guy posts a sexy selfie then he is shamed by men and women. Women say they don’t like men who post selfies because that makes them seem vain and selfish. Isn’t that a little bit hypocritical since women themselves post selfies all the time but they don’t see that as vanity?
It’s not uncommon for men to be hurt by patriarchy too.
But there is a huge downside to being objectified.
Want To Be Objectified? Careful What You Wish For
https://broadblogs.com/2015/05/18/want-to-be-objectified-careful-what-you-wish-for/
I have to agree with the statement, “Men are conquerors”. Men will hi-five each other for sleeping with multiple women. Men find it as a turn-off when a woman acts as a male.
Sex is meant to be enjoyed, I don’t understand why the word like “slut” or “whore” is used to shame a woman for enjoying sex. I find it’s incredibly counterproductive. I believe “slut shaming” is all about power and a way for people to peer pressure other individuals into changing their behaviors for the sake of their own insecurities and depravities.
Men see women as individuals who should be innocent and not have multiple sexual partners. If a woman is seen sleeping around with multiple partners, a man would not respect her as much and will even disrespect her freely. On the other hand, women see a men who sleep around with multiple women as a “womanizer” and is a seen as a liar and manipulator for his active appetite.
In the end, it’s all about power. If you can shame someone, it gives you power over the individual and makes the shamer feel better about them self. Also, “slut shaming” is another way to attack women who don’t conform themselves to society’s norms.
Yeah, you don’t find women being shamed in cultures that are not patriarchal.
“On the other hand, women see a men who sleep around with multiple women as a “womanizer” and is a seen as a liar and manipulator for his active appetite.”
Actually, this is not true. More than likely, said man is going to be viewed favorably by most women. Throughout human history women have viewed playboys or Casanovas in a favorable light.
Depends. Where that happens it’s probably because women have internalized sexism. These men gain status from other men, which makes them high status in the community, which the women accept. I don’t know any women who would want to marry a man who was a womanizer. None of my friends anyway.
That may be true or used to be true, but I’ll agree with the OP here. Some of my friends, well they had a womanizing past and one who was with very many women. And he found out and what I’ve seen is a lot of girls are not thrilled or are turned off hearing about a guy being with a ton of girls. It’s one thing with a man having sexual experience. But another thing with guys being with A LOT of women. He told me how if his past is brought up by a gf, he lies about his number as in saying much less than he actually has. Funny as that’s usually what girls do and guy’s usually lie as in adding more. But I know my friend’s not lying and he’s actually been with quite a good number of girls and he actually says much much less. And I’ve heard girls say it, how it’s not attractive and many see it differently than guys do for other guys.
It’s so complicated to understand why it’s so common for women to slut-shame other women, but men don’t slut-shame other men. I believe it is so sexist the fact that a man can have sex multiple times with multiple girls, which is considered to be completely fine, but when it comes to a woman having sex multiple times with multiple people it puts a huge horrible image on them. Men don’t slut-shame men, because for some reason men “nailing a couple of ladies” brings them a whole bunch of praise and it makes them more of a “man” than what they really are. I find it so depressing that women can easily slut-shame other women for what they do in their personal lives. Yes, it is very true, women are other women’s worst enemy. I question why women find other women a threat in this world. Like, why can’t all women love one another and stop the hate? It is known that women can have such a huge judgmental attitude towards another.
I don’t believe that women are their own worst enemy, But sometimes they are.
Disempowered groups are often taught to attack each other instead of those with higher status. So women might attack each other instead of attacking slut shaming, it’s self. The working class attacks one another. White working class men blame women and minorities for their problems. Which makes women and minorities angry at these men. And in some places blacks, Koreans, and Latinos all blame each other. High status groups have more power over ideas and sometimes they deliberately deflect criticism from themselves by blaming other powerless groups.
Men will rarely slut shame men because many of the times it is a competition for them. They are natural very competitive and for the most part they will try to one up each other. Men will make bets to see who can get a girl before the other or who can be with the most girls. They also don’t feel the need to slut shame because that may be a petty argument for them. They also have a tendency to fight, and sometimes physically, and they next few minutes that are over it and go grab something to drink or eat. Woman on the other hand slut shame other woman many times due to insecurities. They can view very attractive woman as being promiscuous because she looks a certain way and they want others to look at her in the same way. In my personal experience I have grown up with three brothers and not once have I heard them slut shame each other or their friends, they congratulate one another, where as with my female friends they will occasionally negatively talk about another girl according to her appearance.
At the same time you don’t find slut-shaming and high-fiving in all cultures. You find it in patriarchal cultures. So it’s not so much natural as cultural.
Even this idea that men are more competitive, Consider that from the time their children in our society they’re taught to be competitive. Boys play baseball, football, basketball, And they race hot wheels. So what do they learn? To be competitive. But girls are encourage to play with dolls and learn nurturing skills.
You should take a look at the last couple of posts I’ve written which show that females are not naturally more nurturing than men. And in some cultures competition is discouraged for men and everyone else. https://broadblogs.com/2016/04/15/once-and-future-gender-equality/
I have an interesting side view of this issue that I would like to share. I agree completely that heterosexual females tend to slut shame heterosexual females, and heterosexual men congratulate heterosexual men for their “sexual conquests.” In my experience, however, this has not been the case for people who identify as homosexual. I myself am not homosexual and do not speak for the homosexual community, but in my interactions with my homosexual friends it seems to be the opposite; gay men slut shame gay men, and gay women congratulate gay women. I’m interested to see if anyone else has had similar experiences and what that might mean in regards to this article. Perhaps no matter the sex you are, going after men is seen as slutty where going after women is seen as admirable? This is one thing that I think should definitely be challenged in our patriarchal society.
Thanks for bringing that up. It’s interesting.
This pattern of slut-shaming was created in straight culture — specifically and patriarchal street culture (non-patriarchies don’t tend to have this). In my classes I talk about how “Sex creates gender,” and I tell them that it applies to straight culture. All of this is creating a sense of male entitlement: who is free, who is not. Who is shamed who is not.
Now gay culture tends to rock the boat in a lot of ways, And it’s one of the reasons that LGBT + people are threatening to patriarchy is like traditional Christianity or traditional Islam. At the same time, LGBT + people are raised within a domination culture mindset (Patriarchy) and so you find men and women shaming each other, Or celebrating each other — basically doing the same thing, But in completely opposite ways.
I have a gay cousin and his partner sometimes jokes that he had thought my cousin was a whore — but then found out that it was just the opposite. So you see a hint of slut-shaming in the gay culture with that banter.
So I’m curious as to why the pattern shifts the way it does. One possibility is that gay men tend to be much more promiscuous than lesbian women. But other studies have found that there is little gender difference in preference for polygamy versus monogamy: About half of men and women prefer to be more polygamous and about half of them prefer to be more monogamous. So in gay culture the half of men that are more monogamous might find the promiscuity threatening? On the other hand, I wonder if lesbians are celebrating promiscuity as a way of continuing to break out of boxes?
I’ll have to write about this sometime.
Thoughts anyone?
It’s because women are considered to be more attractive and desirable than men
a)Straight men have to initiate and approach women because women have higher sexual value. So the few men who can have many women are worthy men.
b) gay men are “slut-shamed” because they desire men. Men have lower sexual value so it’s not consider to be right for anyone to prefer men instead of women.
c) straight women are “slut-shamed” if they are eager to have sex with men because men have lower sexual value than men. Men have to work hard to prove that they are worth of having sex with a woman.
d) lesbians aren’t slut-shamed for desiring women because women have higher sexual value so it makes sense that everyone is attracted to women. That’s why in the movies and media female bisexuality is very common whereas male bisexuality is uncommon.
It all has to do with the sexual vale of each gender.
There are no sexy photos of males because noone wants to see men. There are everywhere photos of sexy women because everyone wants to see women.
Women is believed to have higher sexual value than men.
So people have internalized the notion that everyone (men or women) should desire women but noone (men or women) should desire men.
Why would anyone desire something of a lower sexual value (men) instead of something of higher sexual value (women)
This is how patriarchy backfires on men.
Because women are more objectified and fetishized they become more desirable.
Because women’s sexuality is more punished and repressed they have less desire.
I’ve written about this before:
Disempowerment Gives Women Weird Power Over Men
https://broadblogs.com/2015/02/18/reducing-women-to-objects-that-overpower-men/
Truely agree with the fact
🙂
I understand that you are trying to say that slut shaming women is hurtful and it is. If some guys are talking about bedding women in a disrespectful women it’s of course something that needs to be stopped. My guess is that probably happens in some colleges in the US. In europe there’s really not such thing as slut shaming women.
Apart from that. When it comes to actual dating and asking someone out with good intentions and since you have taken a taste of how hard it is to do so, don’t you think that men deserve high fives for finding the courage to talk to a gal and ask her out on a date?
I’m glad that you’re doesn’t have slut-shaming.
But the high-5 thing is really grounded in the double standard. In America women are often shamed for having casual sex and so getting women to break down the barriers – given the punishment they can face – becomes a big deal.
Let’s leave the sex part as a trophy out for a minute. The guys who mastered their fears and can talk to gals charming and respectful and make them feel comfortable don’t they deserve high fives?
I can tell you that almost all men wish they could be fearless and be able to talk to women, again in a respectful way.
I don’t think that many women would be interested in being able to talk to men. Sure they may want to have a meaningful relationship but they would prefer the guy to take the initiative and talk to them.
So the guys who can take the initiative and all the work don’t deserve high fives?
I don’t know why there is such a strong stereotype about the guys being so disrespectful, it’s probably because of the mainstream Hollywood movies but that’s not really the majority of males. The vast majority of males would be too “scared” to approach any woman and be so forward. That’s why there are so many books on “how to talk to women”.
My point is that women want to be approached so the guys really have to hone their skills talking to women.
My personal experience is that if any guy is bragging about bedding a lot of women is actually laughed at for being a liar.
But if a guy can approach women and talk to them without making them feel uncomfortable that’s something that all guys look up with awe so these guys gets the respect among men and not those who brag about bedding a lot of women.
I’m glad sex and gender relations are a bit healthier in your country. Where do you live by the way? I have no problem with the type of high-5 you’re describing.
Women slut shame each other to feel better about themselves or justify why another women is getting more attention from men than she is. Like BroadBlogs states, “it’s a vicious cycle” because women will go back and forth slut shaming until they are happy and have no regards for other women. Men on the other hand never slut shame each other because it just isn’t in their make up. I believe it’s because they really don’t give a damn about what anyone else is doing if it doesn’t involve them. Men are different than women. They don’t gossip and don’t put down other men just to talk or justify their own actions. They justify their own actions and don’t care to get approval from others. Slut shaming is a cycle that will always surround women and will find its way into women’s lives making them feel superior while making them feel ashamed at the same time.
Women would certainly be better off if they didn’t fuck shame. And so with men, since they would get a lot more sex.
But it’s important to know that you only find Women being slut-shamed in cultures that are patriarchal. It serves the purpose of creating a sense of male superiority by declaring that men are free and women are not. And declaring that women are shameful and shamed, while men are celebrated. And when you shame such a core need for sex, You create low self-esteem in most women. It all works to bolster patriarchy. Keep in mind that patriarchy and men are different things. Plenty of men are against patriarchy, just like plenty of white people are against racism.
I disagree with men not caring. Sure men don’t slut shame men, because our society prizes men being sexually active. So a man even trying to would end up complimenting another guy or not effecting him. It’s like a poor guy saying to a rich guy. “screw you wealthy prick”. sure prick might not be a good word, but it just reminds the wealthy guy of his privilege but the opposite would hurt the poor guy. That’s why on the other hand, a womanizer dissing another guy who is a virgin and teases him, that would hurt the virgin guy, wherease, the virgin dissing the womanizer most often not so much. Because one is in a state of being a “have” (the womanizer, or the wealthy guy) and the other :”the virgin or poor guy” (They are the have nots” Like a totem pole. The have nots usually don’t or have a harder time insulting the top of the totem pole even if they try. I think you can see this in general and why a racist insult from a white person to a black person is stronger than a black person to white person, because of history and status in society. I think same with sexist comments to with men to women and women to men.
But anyway guys do care. To think they don’t, is to not realize the ego, especially male ego. A guy struggling to get girls, but is funny, charming, decent looking and he knows it. But has to hear his friends talk about their success that he hasn’t had? He’s already having a bruised ego not getting laid and then some guys are getting laid, and probably not even as good looking and charming as said struggling guy. So that’s just salt on the wound and a reminder the guy really doesn’t want to know, which he’s already feeling and now compounded. That’s just bound to have a chip on his shoulder now and would love to shove it in those “average joe smucks faces” and get the results he always felt he should have had and much, much better results than those guys.
I agree with this post 100%. Also, I want to add that the main reason men get so much praise for getting with multiple women, is because it is easier for women to get with men and not the other way around. Women ultimately have the say in whether they want to hook up with you or not, so the woman has to fancy you in some way. In a sense, the guy that gets more girls means that he has more qualities that women desire. This is the main reason that I think men don’t get slut-shamed as much as women. It is all about the accessibility. If you take a look at it from the woman’s perspective, an attractive woman that is extremely self-confident probably won’t go around sleeping with a lot of guys because she has a higher standard. She ultimately can pick and choose which men she wants to be with because she is just that good looking/ charming. So for women, I do agree with this post how beauty pretty much equals power on that side of things.
But it’s a vicious cycle. One of the main reasons it’s easier for a woman to get with a man is because Women are shamed so often for having sex.
And you only find slut-shaming in patriarchies. In gender-equal societies it doesn’t happen.
But then, shaming women for having sex helps to create a sense of male dominance by communicating that men are free, And women are not. Men are celebrated, and women are humiliated.
Does that reason play out in reality though? This ignores any woman who’s not seen as conventionally attractive. Men don’t get the same praise if they sleep with women considered unattractive and it’s not so easy for women considered unattractive to find men who desire them. If this truly was the reason for the double standard then shouldn’t it apply to rich and famous men? They can easily get pretty much any woman they want. Women throw themselves at them and they have the ultimate say in whether they want to hook up or not. So shouldn’t rich and famous men be shamed if they sleep with multiple women? How about women considered physically unattractive, since as you acknowledged that equals woman’s power, should she not be considered a stud if she is able to sleeps with multiple men? That doesn’t seem to be the case though. So it’s not so much about who has an easier or more difficult time getting laid.
Isn’t it interesting how the foundation of a man’s perceived masculine worth is still about women?
If women changed their standards for sleeping with men, how much would this affect masculinity and masculine values? Now that’s a fun thought.
Interesting. Something to think about.
One of the conversations I like to take on to my guy friends, why is it that they do not slut shame their friends, why encourage them and parade them when they bang a lot of girls. I think one of the things as you wrote “..men constantly work to prove their manhood..” gives reason for this, men often believe that they always have to prove that they are not some kind of fruity man, a sissy because although the LGBTQ community has a been welcomed and accepted for the mostly, men still find it “scary” to get in tough with their feminine side because they are afraid to be called gay, I’ve had many encounters like this with my own guy friends , one of they other guys kids around and calls him gay and instantly gets defensive it crazy that we still have not advanced in these areas. Thank you for the post! really gives people some insight as why its okay for men to be “sluts” lol.
Thanks. I hope it was helpful.
I agree that men do not slut shame women because they benefit from women having sex. If a man puts down a woman for having sex with them or someone else, or just being sexually active in general, then he definitely won’t be getting any sex anytime soon. It is sad that women slut shame other women, our sisters. We should not feel aggressive and like we are competing with each other for a man’s attention. Personally, things have gotten better for me since I have graduated high school, but I am well aware of the fact that there are grown women out there who still slut shame others. It’s immature and quite frankly a conservative way of thinking to not think it is “okay” for a woman to be free in her sexuality. However it is one thing to disagree with someone’s sexual activity; but to go as far as comment on that woman’s activity, and shame her to try and feel bad about her actions and bad about herself…that’s just cruel.
Well, Men do slut-shame women. But on average they are less likely to do it then women are.
Yes, why not slut shame men?! I grew up with 3 brothers so when I would hear them talking about all their “bitches” I would find it so irritating. Not because I wanted to be with multiple men or have a couple boyfriends but because I feel like it’s almost a sin for a women to have any type of morals similar to a man. But then again I blame society. They made us believe that men have to sweep a women off her feet in order to win her over so they must work to get a girl. I guess that’s why they take pride in how many girls they can get because women always have options. Regardless of how attractive she may be. I can see how men take that as an accomplishment. They got a girl who has other men seeking her attention.
As for us ladies, I have noticed that the women who tend to slut shame are usually the ones who are envious. Like someone had mentioned in the previous comments, they could feel threatened by someone better looking than them. But what I’ve always believed is that women who shame others tend to have a high sex drive but because they are scared to be seen as a “slut” or “whore” they hold back and hate on women who are comfortable with their sexuality.
Some interesting thoughts there. Thanks.
Never understood the whole thing about ‘slut-shaming’ because after all, it take two to tango…
Slut-shaming makes no logical sense. It only makes sense in patriarchies. It helps to create a sense of male dominance when men are free but women are not. Men are celebrated and women are shamed.
Honestly it’s about how many girls a guy can sleep with. It’s like getting an award for every girl they do it with. It gives give a sense of power and makes them feel more masculine. Girls on the other hand are often ashamed of saying how many guys she’s slept with. Why? Well because when a women doesn’t have sex at all, she’s pure. When it comes down to it, a women who’s slept with a lot of men she’s labeled wih basically no value. The way society makes of women disgusts me. I love to have sex and I’m not ashamed of it. Back when I was in middle school and high school, I would have never said that. If they know you have sex they automatically call you a whore. Something I didn’t want to be called . It’s disgusting how men are praised for having sex and enjoy it while women have to be more secretive about it. Women love sex too and there should be no shame behind that! Sex is natural. It’s a part of life. I’d be dammed if I didn’t know a thing about it. Like we discussed in class, some women don’t even know how to orgasm because they’ve been prevented from doing so.
And it’s important to know that women are only slut-shamed in patriarchies. Not in all cultures. So it is clearly tied to trying to create a sense of male dominance.
Men definitely do slut shame. I’ve seen male trolls all over the internet harassing women for the way, they look, dress, or act. It’s quite disturbing the comments they make, especially when they bring up the topic of rape. The internet is by no mean a barrier since many men have no shame to do it in person or in public as well. While some will snicker to their group of friends about “slutty” women, some feel the need to stop that person and express their feelings of disapproval. Here’s an example of that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWvIKyyGbb0
I think women’s tendencies to slut shame more frequently and openly are instilled by the ideas of men and their need for control. It is “OK” for men to have multiple sexual partners but it is not “OK” for women to do the same? Seems pretty like a threatening idea for men, that women don’t need to be dependent on one man for sexual satisfaction. Especially when women are seen as objects, as described above, that are symbols of success. Now that we have found ways do be economically independent, sexuality is becoming more threatening of a topic since it could mean women weaning of the breast of man.
Women slut shaming women in some ways reminds me of black on black crime. Tupac hit the nail on the head of that subject in his song “Only God Can Judge Me Now”. The lyrics that specifically reminded me of this is were,” and they say it’s the white man I should fear, but it’s my own kind doing all the killing here”. Some women never even encounter slut shaming by men because they unfortunately take their own lives due to slut shaming by other girls and bullies in high school and even college. Slut shaming has been deeply embed in the subconscious of women to promote dependency and has portrayed women as competitive, hateful, and envious of each other. I think it is important to understand the root cause of this problem to stop slut shaming coming from anyone, regardless of their gender or background.
Men definitely’s slut-shame. It’s just that on average they are less likely to do it than women are, Studies have found.
On the Internet men are more likely to slut-shame though. Men are much more likely to act in hurtful ways than women are on the Internet.
Slut shaming women or shaming gay men is a kind of bullying. And noone should be bullied about their life and self being. Everyone should mind their own business. Live and let live.
Given that, your question “why men don’t slut shame men” is another thing.
No matter how far feminism and gender equality will go there will never ever be gender equality in dating. Never.
I have never seen feminists trying to set an example by talking to men. Women don’t like that and don’t want that.
Men will always have to work really hard to get dates and a girlfriend so there will always be high fives for that.
A man who masters his fear and finds the courage to talk to a woman will always be looked upon with awe by other men.
Well, we’ll see. I believe that we can achieve gender equality in everything, including dating.
In more gender equal society, one without slut-shaming double standards, you don’t see these inequality in dating that you point out. Men high-fiving men for their “conquest” over women isn’t absolute in every society/culture, so to say it will always be like that is incorrect because it already hasn’t always been like that. These inequalities occur only when women are uniquely devalued and stigmatized for having/practicing sexual agency, while the men are excused or praised.
“I have never seen feminists trying to set an example by talking to men. Women don’t like that and don’t want that.”
Do men want that? Gaining the courage to set yourself up for possible rejection can be tough, no doubt. With that, in our current society, women face an additional challenge though. Not only do women have to face the challenge men do by initiating, women also have to face the possibility of being seen as easy/slutty. So while there’s sometimes hardship in having to pursue the person you desire, that courage is generally viewed as admirable in a man. Where as the same act, with all the same internal hardship, can be viewed as unladylike for a woman. So for that to change, we need more feminist men, who don’t feel uncomfortable or “less manly” by women openly initiating things. I don’t mind talking to men, I just hate having to worry about being devalued or seen as a turnoff for doing that by the man I’m interested in. Though it may help in avoiding straight up misogynists but even feminist men raised in our culture can subconsciously feel that way. So we need feminist men to set an example. That’s not done by just simply saying they’re okay with women going after the men they like but actually showing it in practice.
“Men will always have to work really hard to get dates and a girlfriend so there will always be high fives for that.”
They wouldn’t have to if women weren’t taught to play hard to get even when they too are interested. Also, you’re assuming women in this setup don’t have to work hard to get dates and a boyfriend. If it was easy then there wouldn’t be never ending advice for girls and women on “how to get him to ask you out.” This passive role women are expected to play really isn’t a privilege position for most.
“A man who masters his fear and finds the courage to talk to a woman will always be looked upon with awe by other men.”
How will they perceive a woman who does this? Will they be in awe of a woman who goes after the man she wants? In our current society, she would not only be mastering her fear and gain courage to talk to a man, it would also be a show of strength for her to go against lifetime of conditioning to be passive in dating. She would also be assuming an additional risk of the possibility that men could be turned-off by her directly approaching and/or getting the reputation of being easy/slutty. Lastly, unlike a man in this position, above all she would be valued for her looks. So if/how/when she approaches a man wouldn’t matter unless she has put in the hours of extra work it takes women daily/weekly to shave all their body hair, treat/style the hair on their head, pluck the hair around their eyebrows, learn and apply appropriate makeup or skin treatment and more..
Women and men don’t currently have a level playing field, or even in the same field. It’s not equality if we only avail women to men’s experience and responsibilities. That reduces the burden patriarchy places on men by splitting it with women, in return for little freedom and power for women at the cost of increasing the already greater share of burden placed on women. To achieve equality, we can’t ignore how women experience the world, we need men to also split the burden placed on women.
I must admit, I am a culprit of slut shaming other girls, subconsciously or consciously I think many of my peers could agree with doing the same thing. When I see a scantily clad stranger walk into a bar or a classmate’s provocative shirt at a party, I eye roll at their tight dress or gawk with my friend who is with me. Am I jealous that they look better than me? That a guy might notice them and not me? That I didn’t wear that? Probably.
But I don’t blame this slut shaming on myself, although I do try and make a conscious effort not to, but on the society we live in that objectifies women’s bodies. Instead of my intellectual or character, I am judged by my appearance and that’s the only way I know how to feel worthy. I think slut shaming doesn’t happen to men because although their bodies are subject to social critique, their body isn’t sexualized to the intensity that a women’s body is.
You’ll find that patriarchal societies do things that gender equal societies don’t do, like these:
1. shame women for having sex, But not shame man (in the double standard)
2. reduce women to their sexuality in an act of objectification
Together it helps to create a sense of male superiority.
So the things you’re talking about actually go hand-in-hand.
On men not slut-shaming each other, you mentioned that a man who is “too pretty” is assumed to be gay, which is threatening to masculinity. No doubt that’s because being pretty is viewed as a womanly trait, and how the patriarchy assigns value to women. But I think it’s interesting that you say that men are never slut shamed. I’m just thinking that so many men also find gay men threatening because they assume that they will come on to them in a locker room or bathroom or something. As was mentioned, men are the ones who initiate romantically and sexually. They’re the ones who ask the girl out. However, when men are gay, they still have that manly need to initiate sex, only with other men. So naturally, they’ll do it where they see other men in states of undress, because they’re automatically turned on by the sight of any and all men around them. And want to have sex with all of them. Obviously. (I’m hoping my sarcastic tone is coming through here.)
So men are not slut shamed. I agree with that. I guess I’m just curious if you think homophobia might come from a similar place? That gay men are a threat, not because they’re too pretty, but because they might treat other men as objects just like those men treat women? Because to the male psyche in this society, to be sexually objectified is to be womanly, and to be womanly is demeaning.
You make a really interesting point. I think that gay men are threatening to patriarchal men because they blur the gender lines — which makes patriarchy more difficult, and part of that blur would be objectifying men (Instead of women). Thanks for contributing that idea.
Don’t men and woman slut shame equally? The only way i can see it being different is the reasons as to why women and men slut shame. I think men slut shame when they believe that they can never get with a women, when they have been turned down by a women, or when other men push their opinions about a women on them. Men slut shame women because as long as shes a “slut”, the fact that he didn’t get with her is that he’s now safe from all the supposed stds she has, which lets the man keep his ego and manhood. I think women slut shame other women as a way of ostracising them. If a women feels intimidated by another woman’s shes not going to go fight face to face, shes going to break down that persons reputation and make them undesirable. Both ways of slut shaming is just a way to make the slut shamers look “clean” or to pump up their egos. Its not because the woman is a slut, its because the slutshamers don’t want to be seen as lesser by the women that has either denied their conquest or taken up some of the attention.
Have you ever seen a man slut-shame man? I never have. Usually they are too busy bragging about how many women they have had sex with.
The lack of slut-shaming among men is a symptom of patriarchy. The system of patriarchy suggests and expects men to assume dominance at all costs- thus perpetuating fear, emotional repression and rape culture. Since men are expected to celebrate each notch on the bedpost, slut-shaming among each other would threaten their perceived “manhood.” A strong, assertive, charming man with a healthy sex drive is respected- a woman is not. Under patriarchy, women are expected to remain passive in sexual and romantic relationships- any assertive behavior from them is grounds for humiliation. Due to the passive/submissive gender expectation, women have to rely on appearance and conventional beauty standards to attract men (assuming heterosexuality.) Because of this, women are likely to feel threatened by the mere presence of a more conventionally attractive woman- they are also more likely to slut-shame because their value is inherently tied to the number of men they can attract.
Luckily, we are gradually moving out of rigid patriarchal gender norms- even celebrities are joining the fight against damaging, gendered forms of communication. I happen to respect Emily Ratajkowski & Ariana Grande for protesting sexual double standards- it is beyond inhumane to dehumanize women for their sexuality and sexual expression. I hope the global reach of American media helps people elsewhere unlearn misogyny and its dire consequences for all.
At least we are making progress. Definitely 2 steps forward and then backlash, though, unfortunately.
As a man, I sometimes find myself asking the same question. If I have sex with a bunch of women I’m the Man! If I don’t I’m told that I need to be more of a man. I have friends that fall into this same trap of having to be with a ton of women to validate their manhood. I believe that this double standard is a clear sign of how much power women have in our society. If we base our success on how many women we’ve been with and we base the purity of a woman on how many men she hasn’t been with shows me that we need to step our game up!
I don’t see how the double standard is a clear sign that women have a lot of power in our society.
First, in this scenario you describe: Men gain points by bedding women, so women are reduced to mere pawns in the game. Do you think that women really want to experience themselves as just a game piece with no value other than that? The only way she matters is that having sex with her means a man can raise his status with other guys? I can assure you it’s not pleasant. That feels the exact opposite of empowering
Second, the double standard tells women that they must not be sexual. How empowering is it to be a sexual being who is told you can’t be sexual without being punished? That is extremely limiting.
Not only that, but when women constantly repressed their sexual desire so that they won’t be hurt they move out of touch with their sexuality. How would you like to lose sexual desire and sexual sensation? Do you think that would be empowering?
It’s not very good for man either since most men prefer to be with the woman who enjoys sex. And with all of the punishment women receive, nearly half of women are completely out of touch with their sexuality and sexual desire.
I find this interesting and I understand why. This post and reply is not just to you, but broadblogs poster, you can chime in if you want and what you think too. I guess I’m chiming in my thoughts, because I wonder and think there are more reasons that guys might feel they want to or have to hook up with many attractive women and it not always being due to proving to other guys they are a man or proving it to society or themselves. More of it is probably to themselves. But for me personally. I might have when like 16 or so felt some need to prove myself or to brag to my circle of friends about my times with girls.
But for me, like I guess it’s good it’s not insecurity as I never felt I’m less of a man to not sleep with women or girls or feel I have to, to prove myself. But my thinking was still flawed, because it’s very pride, ego centered. Everyone has flaws, and mine unfortunately can be pride. Caring too much about things that I shouldn’t maybe and take things more seriously than should. But for me, I didn’t need or feel the need to sleep with women to validate from having sex that “hey I’m a stud now” Because that would mean you’d have to not think you are that much if you’re a virgin or not getting laid much. The problem for me was, I’m aware fortunately, unfortunately of my strengths and what I’m good at. I have to warm up sometimes to girls or not one that will just walk across a bar and talk like it’s no big deal. But if in a classroom setting or at work, don’t have a problem talking to a new girl and such. But when I was younger and had a slow start and not having the fun time I thought I should have had like other guys or wasn’t with many girls. It bothered me because of well, as a young guy you have a strong sex drive and it sucks to not have urges met, especially when you feel you could be doing much better, but then it’s like salt to the wound when other guys, seemingly averagoe joes doing alright.
So it’s not about proving other guys, but like you’re not getting the results you want and expect and then other guys doing fine on top of that to remind you of what you’re not doing but want to When you’re a proud person you expect a lot from yourself and it’s one thing to not do great, everybody has down times or off days. But when you’re underachieving consdierably. I mean it’s underrachieving if you’re joe schmoe, but when you’re aware of your traits that you’ve seen girls dig and know capable of. Whether it the combination of things, flirting, charm, humor, wit, looks, body, talent and put that together and know what you’re capable of. Like you;re going to want the results or else it would bother you. Like a guy trying to prove himself to other guys after getting laid with other girls will probably think “yeah i’m stud”. For me it would be more like “that’s more fucking like it” ha. It doesn’t make me a stud, already felt like it, but the results were way off and finally getting results you expect from yourself.
Looks like you have some very interesting thoughts and a lot of self-insight. It’s one of your strengths. And should serve you well.
Yeah, I’ll think about it. And I have your post scheduled for sometime this month.”
Which one is this? The one I just recently was talking about or the role reversal realm I posted about a few weeks ago and have added some stuff recently?
This: 2-6 Richer Than A King, He Put A Bullet through his brain -Bob
Ah, that is the long version of the mike posner one with the poem and other song combined.. Cool.
🙂
All these sex positive societies who don’t slut shame women are very small socities. In matter of fact even in those societies women practically don’t have sex with strangers because they already know everyone. Now take some women from that small socities and take them to a major city, would they be interested in having sex with strangers? Of course not. Women need to feel comfortable with a man before they get intimated with him. In those small socities women are already comfortable with those men because they already know them. Men don’t really care about that. They can ask questions later.
Men spend a lot of time and money on trying to meet and court women. Yet nobody asks why should men be the ones to pay for dinners, gifts and ask for a date and make the arrangements where to go out. It’s a lot of work for men to get a woman to go out on a date, or have sex with, or get a girlfriend.
Women don’t realize how hard is for men to actually take the courage to talk to someone and ask them out because women don’t have to go through this.
That’s why men consider it a success to have many partners. A lot are expected from men. If a man shows any sign of “weakness” while speaking to a woman then he is easily rejected. The bar is set higher for men and that’s why there are high fives.
Women slut shame women, because if a woman is being more proactive then she is ruining the rule of “supply and demand”. Women expect from a man to show what he is willing to do for them. That’s why women set the pace and test men all the time and expect dinners, gifts, etc. And I don’t see that changing any time soon simply because women don’t want it to change. Even feminists women say “when it comes to dating I am traditional”. Not so feminist after all.
Let’s try this experiment. How about women going out and trying to talk to men and get them to go out on a date that they would initiate. How many women have the courage to do that?
That’s why the high fives for men. It takes a lot of courage to talk to women and ask them on a date and go through it.
Ask your male students if they would like it for a change to get asked out on a date. I bet that they would all like that and noone would slut shame women for taking the initiative to talk to them and ask them on a date
Many of those societies that don’t slut-shame women are very small, But not all. Women in Northern Europe aren’t shamed.
And when women are punished so much they start to deny their sexual feelings which leads them less in touch with their sexual feelings overtime. And then they need more to get interested. So they get pickier.
A lot of what you are talking about is how we use sex to create gender. The things you describe make men leaders, makes them tough (Able to withstand rejection)… See this:
How Sex Creates Gender
https://broadblogs.com/2015/10/07/how-sex-creates-gender/
Why Dating Resists Gender Equality
https://broadblogs.com/2014/12/01/why-dating-resists-gender-equality/
And some people do question this, like feminists, who think that Women should be equally able to ask men out. And most of my women students have asked a man out. Maybe you have seen these already but here it is again:
Why Women Don’t Ask Guys Out
https://broadblogs.com/2014/02/03/why-women-dont-ask-guys-out/
Yeah, I’ve Asked Men Out
https://broadblogs.com/2014/02/10/yeah-ive-asked-men-out/
Do Men Want Women To Ask Them Out?
https://broadblogs.com/2014/02/14/do-men-want-women-to-ask-them-out/
That said, I have wondered if it’s less comfortable to have a stranger enter your body than to enter a strangers body.
But also like I said, part of the reason why women are shamed for having sex is precisely to create a sense of accomplishment when a man manages to get sex. And to create a game where men are winners and women are losers.
In the long run it hurts men when they want relationships and their partners get bored with sex quickly. Or when they want sex in some other context and they can’t get it.
Not to mention you have all of these guys having sex more because they want to brag to other guys than because they even enjoy it. They’re really missing out.
You ask why men don’t slut shame men
Instead of talking about players let’s think about the other extreme.
Shy introverted timid men, even if they are good looking won’t get dates or have sex because women don’t like timid men. So men if they want to get a girlfriend they have to work really hard. Hence the high fives.
On the other hand shy timid women can still get boyfriends because some men will take the initiative to talk to them. It’s once again the men’s duty to talk to women. Hence the high fives for men.
Women won’t bother with shy timid men because a man being timid is a major turn off for women.
Think of Rocky and shy Adriana in the first Rocky movie. It was Rocky who did all the work that’s why the high fives for men.
In a gender reversed situation the women would never bother with timid men.
Sure some female students of yours may have asked a guy out once or twice. But they did it only once or twice. It takes a lot of courage and work for men to have to talk to women all the time and say the right things and make them feel comfortable. Men have to deal with rejection and still find the courage to keep talking to women otherwise they will not get a girlfriend. Hence the high fives for men.
I have never heard of feminists talking about women asking men out. All I hear from feminists is “it’s men’s duty to talk to women”, “men have to take women out” and stuff like that.
I was reading an article written by a woman who read books about pick up artists and went out to see how that would work the other way around.
So she tried talking to men and tried to make them like her. But she was disappointed because she realized that she didn’t have to put any effort at all. It was very easy for her to get dates and in matter of fact after the first few seconds of the interaction it was the men who took the lead and tried to flirt with her.
It’s very hard for men to find courage to talk to women and face rejection again and again. Women can not realize the courage that it takes. Hence the high fives for men. If a man goes into the jungle or climbs a mountain and comes back alive then there will be certainly high fives for that brave man and his display of courage.
I didn’t realize how much courage it took for men to ask a woman out until I was in high school and we had a Sadie Hawkins dance where the women had to ask. Suddenly I got it.
I would think so too. But because men get status from proving their manhood, And being accepted by “The brotherhood” helps men feel like they our accepted as men, that proof of manhood is just too valued to risk being not accepted by the group.”
It sounds like you’re talking about college with brotherhood, like as in a fraternity. Or that could relate to high school too. But yes that makes sense, because in that situation the boy is with his “bros” or friends and doesn’t want to alienate himself or risk messing up his social life and ruining friendships that matters a lot to boys in their youth. I’m kind of talking about like friends in your circle, but who have friends that you see every now and then, that you don’t really know. So you’re not really friends with them and they brag about girls or atleast tell stories about their sex-capades with girls. Or guys are your school who you know of, but they are popular and maybe star qb for the university, etc and seemed to have all this fun or just guys who just are extroverted and never had problems getting girls or always seem to have a date. I could see resentment to them and name call as they aren’t actually a boy’s friend and they could give two shits about not having that dude as their friend. Like a boy that’s a virgin or inexperienced and seeing guy’s doing well.
It has to be there. Luckily most guy’s are rational and not psycho about it. But proof of this resentment is, remember Elliot Rodgers? Yes he hated girls, and well it’s been discussed why. He hated college girls for not giving him sex. But he also hated just as much was ‘those guys” as in the popular college guys having fun times and sex with girls. There were male victims from the shooting and not be accident, I believe he wanted to kill me or these men just as much as the women from college. College girls because of feeling entitled to them and college guys because of spite and bitterness of them doing what he’s wanted to and success he didn’t have despite him being better than them.
It’s interesting that he didn’t act envious of other men and blamed women instead of a system that punishes women for having sex.
He hated both. I didn’t read the manifesto, because it’s disgusting, but I read reports that talked about what his muti page manifesto was about. To sum it up. He hated college girls for giving sex to other guys in college, and not him. And he hated those frat guys and popular guys getting the sex and partys he wanted, therefore hated these men too. And supposedly in his manifesto, he wanted to kill not just the girls, but these guys. I guess it was more wide spread for college girls, whereas not just every or any guy. But he did want to kill the popular college guys who were getting said girls he wanted. So yeah, he hated the guys too just as much.
I guess you’re right. He did kill men too. I wonder how many men feel resentment toward other men but don’t speak of it? Maybe because they want to be accepted by the guys– that’s more important.
it’s pure and simple. men don’t slut shame men simply because men aren’t labelled as sluts. this might be sexist and also offencive but it’s just my opinion.
So true. But I like to look at some other factors, too. 🙂
Why is that though? Why are men not labelled as sluts in a society that labels women with these derogatory names for participating in the same behavior? Why are things the way they are?
Take a look at this:
How’s The Double Standard Make Sense?
https://broadblogs.com/2016/04/13/hows-the-double-standard-make-sense/
Once these things are created, like the double standard in our patriarchy, men and women both internalize it so that it too often seems natural and normal. (I was slut-shamed in high school and I accepted it as normal at the time — but I was confused since I hadn’t even had sex, some girls were jealous that boys they liked liked me.)
Said remarks have always been directed at women. You never hear men labelled as “bitch” do you?
I have heard man on man sex shaming, but you’re of course correct that it happens much more frequently in the other direction. I do think that cultural norms\expectations play a big part. It has no business either way.
That’s interesting. I’ve never heard from anyone else who has witnessed it. It’s hard to imagine when men get so many points from “scoring high.” How does a conversation like that go?
I think slut-shaming just proves that society thinks that men can do no wrong and women are the problem. By slut-shaming women we keep track of family eiser then with men. Because we always know who mom is, but we might not know who dad is. Slut-shaming keeps women from having children with every man that fits her fancy. This however does not apply to men, even though it would have the same affect. But because men are supposed to be supirior to women this rule does not apply to them. In a society that blames women for things and not men, we see the women put down by slut-shaming eachother, however men can’t participate in this harassment because it would not benefit men in the least.
Hi, I got a little confused by your comment.
Slut-shaming arises once you get patriarchy. Maybe because in patriarchy people want to trace lineage through the father, pass property through the father, And have men be heads of home. So you need to know who dad is.
In older societies where you didn’t know who dad is women had more power because then property was passed through women, lineage was traced through women, and clans were headed by women. These are societies where the Village raised children. In bigger complex societies like ours, where villages do not raise children, not knowing who daddy is doesn’t end up being so helpful.
I think society and upbringing are the major factors in the different approach that men and women take towards sex, that’s why in liberal societies a certain behaviour is accepted as normal and vice-versa.
Yeah, society and upbringing are surely the main factors. In some societies there is no shaming a women for sex, While in other societies having sex can get you killed.
I wonder, too, how much of this is women keeping each other in place- because society has conditioned us to do that. Hence the slut shaming.
Interesting thought. I can see how that could play a role.
I definitely agree with all this; men tend to applaud each other when they get a woman in bed, whereas women tend to slut-shame other women when they have any sort of physical sexual activity. I feel like it’s completely ridiculous how women are pretty much degraded to their looks, whereas men are held up on a pedestal for basically doing nothing. Women are reduced to how good they are in bed, while men are rated on how many women they’ve lured into their sheets.
And then there is the double bind of being shamed when they are good in bad or when they look really good. (Because you don’t have to actually have sex to be slut-shamed, You just have to be attractive.)
Women are the biggest enemy women have.Women consider other women to be competition and therefore treat them as so. For all the talk of sisterhood, there is no such thing.
When it comes to men it is every woman for herself. Those who have no sexual market value will hate both women who can get a man and men who reject them for not being of value.
You have about 10 seconds to make an impression on other people and it does not matter whether that other person is male or female. Yes, that impression is based solely on looks. It may not seem fair but that is the way it is.
One of the quickest ways to bad mouth a woman with sexual market value is to slut shame her. Because men do take into account a woman’s n-count when looking for a partner, that is another fact of life.
If women spent more time trying to increase their sexual market value and less in trying to reduce the competition they would fair much better. And they would have an easier time finding a man if they keep their n-count low. But both of those things require work and I hate to say it but women are lazy when it comes to that sort of thing.
If you do not present good packaging no one is going to bother to look and see what is inside the package.
Remember the 80/20 rule. There are lots of good men out there but most of them are not in the 20 % group. Women need to start looking realistically at themselves when they are looking for a man. Choose someone who is in the same sexual market value level as themselves. But hypergamy will rule for all women and only very few will win that game.
Men are designed to seek sex as often as possible. Yes, men seek sexual partners first then take care of things themselves if all else fails. Men will also help each other find and secure a sexual partner.There is a brotherhood and men are there for each other. They are willing to teach and learn from each other.
If women truly wish to be equal with men perhaps they should start to emulate men in the way men treat each other.
It is time for women to understand that you need earn respect and stop sitting around waiting for laws and legislation to give it to them.
MGTOW is growing and soon there just will not be any men to choose from. Hope all these women like cats.
Thanks for your thoughts.
But I don’t believe that women are the biggest enemy that women have. (see my Final comments below)
I don’t mean for people to think that all women behave this way (although as far as I can tell men never slut-shame other men).
And to get out of this cycle I believe we need to value women for more than just their looks, and that we need to empower women to not just possibly attract.
And we need to get rid of the double standard that values sex when men have it but sees both sex and women as dirty when they do the same thing.
Hypergamy is a strong with men as women. Because we value men and masculinity over women and femininity men tend to be uncomfortable mast with a woman with higher status and money. See this post:
Man Chops Off Wife’s Fingers Because She’s More Educated Than Him
https://broadblogs.com/2013/08/30/man-chops-off-wifes-fingers-because-shes-more-educated-than-him/
If we valued women and men equally neither women nor men would be attached to hypergamy.
Also, the notion that men are designed to seek sex as often as possible, while women are not, is both wrong and leads to the double standard that leads to slut-shaming women and not men.
In some societies women behave exactly the way men do and they aren’t shamed for it. See these for instance:
Pro-Sex vs Anti-Sex Societies
https://broadblogs.com/2016/06/06/pro-sex-vs-anti-sex-societies/
Are Women Naturally Monogamous?
https://broadblogs.com/2010/08/17/are-women-naturally-monogamous/
Thanks for your comments. I can see that I need to write a follow-up post on this.
Maybe a post in relation to such ideals not being what they seem or a facade. That one I did that tied the mike posner song related to the other songs and poem, kind of relate to this false image or things not being how they seem. There’s much more, but you know what I mean.
Yeah, I’ll think about it. And I have your post scheduled for sometime this month.
“Hypergamy is a strong with men as women. Because we value men and masculinity over women and femininity men tend to be uncomfortable mast with a woman with higher status and money.”
Really? You think so…?
Let me share this with you. In my professional work, I deal with doctors from time to time. Interesting bunch. In the Baltimore – Washington area there a lots of major hospitals..Johns Hopkins Hospital just named it first woman CEO and President (Yeah!!) last summer. In my conversations with some of the female docs, I notice far more of the younger ones are single as opposed to the male docs. Now keep in mind that medical schools today are probably 50/50 in terms of enrollments.
An anesthesiologist, is earning around $400,000-$500,000 a year. A male doctor, if married, is usually married to a woman that is perhaps a Professor or a Psychiatrist or even a Nurse. Rarely have I seen them married to another anesthesiologist or another specialist earning as much.. If so, it is usually a foreign-born doctor. Why? Like most men, they are not driven by a woman’s social or occupational status. Usually, like most men, they want looks and her ability to be a good wife, mother, parent, etc. He wants a wife. He wants feminine energy.
The women doctors express frustration as to why these male doctors are marrying women below them. They on the other hand are looking for men on their level or higher. So, if she is a radiologist earning $400,000. She wants a man earning the same. He need not necessarily be in the medical field. My point is these women are more driven by the social status of the man. The exact opposite is the case for the men. The social status of the women, while important, does not matter nearly as much.
So, if we are using the standard definition of hypergamy, I do not see how you can make this statement. I have observed cases that are contrary. In the case of the new CEO of Johns Hopkins Hospital, her husband while a physician and Department head, is not earning a $1,000,000 a year. There are others I am sure.
A broader perspective…Today we see at the macro level some 45% of women earning MORE than their spouses. This is due to changes in the economy with the massive loss of jobs for blue collar men. If we look at white collar workers and college educated
professional households, we do not see this. Men still earn more. However, I think this will soon change as more women earn higher levels of education….But, we also see that these women are LESS likely to be married. Why? Fewer men to chose. Like my women doctors they are refusing to settle (i.e., marry down). So, they remain single.
I know this is unscientific. I have only seen limited research pertaining to this issue. Clearly, there is data supporting significantly lower marriage rates and reproduction rates for highly educated women. Of course, this is in trend with the decline in marriage rates.
Let’s abstract from gender, race, etc. If highly educated and successful people look down upon those whom they see as beneath them, how is that going to foster equality? Being a snob has nothing to do with equality. Right? A true sense of equality is a state of mind. A sense of mind that embodies a real sense of egalitarianism.
What you just described it is hypergamy being practiced on both sides. Men feel uncomfortable marrying Women who have higher status and $ than them and women feel uncomfortable marrying down — and both because they have internalized sexism.
“What you just described it is hypergamy being practiced on both sides. Men feel uncomfortable marrying Women who have higher status and $ than them and women feel uncomfortable marrying down — and both because they have internalized sexism.”
Sigh…
@ Linny,
Yes, you make some very good points. I would agree that women are indeed their greatest enemies. I have also observed that well educated White women, usually feminists, are some of the worst offenders in terms of their attitudes towards lesser educated and minority women.
“One of the quickest ways to bad mouth a woman with sexual market value is to slut shame her. Because men do take into account a woman’s n-count when looking for a partner, that is another fact of life.”
The irony of this statement is that the most attractive women are going to have the highest SMV. It is also these same women that are also most likely to have the highest ‘n-count'”. But, what is crazy isit is these very women that most men avidly chase and crave. Hence the irony and in my opinion the sheer stupidity of most men. Just saying.
The real problem I see in America is this: most men see most women as attractive enough. Most women find most men as unattractive, period. So, the typical modern American women is NOT going to work on her SMV or “n-count” for the average American male whom she perceives as unattractive. It makes no sense to her to do so.
There is growing research that show that the more educated a woman becomes the GREATER the hypergamy. In other words as a woman achieves a higher level of education. the LESS likely she is the consider dating or marrying down. So, contrary to the feminist dogma, we are not heading towards less gender equality. Rather one can make a very compelling argument that we will see greater gender inequality since women are obtaining higher education at a faster rate than men today.
“If women truly wish to be equal with men perhaps they should start to emulate men in the way men treat each other.”
WRONG!!!
It is we men who should emulate women and learn from women! Why? Women know how to evaluate men. We men are clueless in so many ways. There is only one group of men out here that really know how to deal with women: the players. Notice that women will date them and have sex with them. But, they will avoid them for long term relationships. There is a reason why this group of men are successful with women. It has very little to do with looks. They understand women. They know women. More importantly, they know how to evaluate and “handle” women. My brother (RIP) was such a man.
“MGTOW is growing and soon there just will not be any men to choose from.”
It’s a free country and you can do as you please. But, MGTOW is a defeatist mentality. Frankly, it seems to me to be men who do not know how, for whatever reason(s), to engage women. If you think you are going to have success with women being a feminist man good luck.
It’s not that women are their own greatest enemy, but that people who have internalized patriarchy are. And both women and men have internalized it. And when women are their own enemy it really stands out.
Keep in mind that patriarchy and men are not the same thing. Plenty of men are against sexism just like plenty of white people are against racism.
And I don’t know what you mean by saying that feminist women harm uneducated and minority women. It’s just the opposite. Feminism is focused on inequality of gender, race and class. I teach the subject in college and it’s all about those three things. If you think otherwise, what examples can you provide?
Did you read the articles on hypergamy? Man Chops Off Wife’s Fingers Because She’s More Educated Than Him https://broadblogs.com/2013/08/30/man-chops-off-wifes-fingers-because-shes-more-educated-than-him/
Patriarchy is the culprit here. Men support it as much or more than women. If we had true feminism/gender equality it simply wouldn’t be a problem for anyone. If more educated women are less likely to marry down it’s because they have more options. Including not marrying at all because they’re self-supporting. But I would like to see the data on this.
When it comes to players understanding women, players understand sexist women: Using Insults to Pick Up Women
https://broadblogs.com/2015/09/07/using-insults-to-pick-up-women-2/
All of my friends, and myself, have married feminist men.
And feminists don’t say that we are headed toward less gender equality. My own posts I constantly point out that we are moving toward greater gender equality. Hillary Clinton wouldn’t have gotten more votes that her male counterpart a few years ago. And I see a difference in my students, too, who are much more concerned with equality than generations past.
But I do appreciate your point that both women and men need to get beyond cultural ideals of attractiveness and look for the wonderful people underneath our shells. It’s one of my messages too. And I do appreciate other things you have said which are appreciative of women.
You seem to be using a rather broad brush for painting genders 🙂
I didn’t say that all women behave in one way.
Here’s what I said: “Women are more likely than men to slut-shame women. Yet men don’t seem to shame men for having sex. Ever.”
So I did say that I have never heard a man slut-shame a man. My students haven’t either.
Have you?
My students have told me that when a man calls another man a “man whore” it’s meant as a compliment.
I’m a sociologist. Sociologists look for social patterns and try to figure out why they’re happening.
I have noticed that when I talk about social patterns — which include variations from the general pattern — that people sometimes think I’m saying “All men or women are this way.” And sometimes it actually does seem that all men are a particular way — like not slut-shaming each other.
I did not hear men slut-shaming men until the revelations of Arnold Schwarzenegger’s exploits were publicized. Then we had Bill Clinton’s wayward penis, and now Trump.
The adoration of promiscuous men was slow in coming (no pun intended, heh) but I think we’re finally getting there. At least with men who are seen to have “conquered” unwilling or reluctant partners, or cheated on their wives.
Thinking back on it, I guess I never openly criticized promiscuous men… but then, neither have I openly criticized promiscuous women. As a more-or-less evangelical Christian and as a monogamous husband, the idea seems repulsive to me but it’s not really my job to police the affairs (pun intended, heh) of consenting adults.
Yeah, Arnold and Bill to get a lot of criticism. But I wonder if that’s because they were married + in public office? I’m talking more about single guys. But thanks for chiming in, It’s good to hear from you.
Arnold and Bill’s criticism is much about politics than anything else. Most of the criticism they face/d, when examined is not based in the criticizers concern over some principle of “promiscuous married man being unfaithful to his wife being wrong” but about having ammo to go after the former president and governor, whom they’re politically opposed to.
Also, I hardly, if ever, see them criticized for their promiscuity that leads to them facing societal consequences outside the political sphere/political discourse. Even in that space, I don’t think they faced the consequences a woman doing the same would. Had they been women I don’t think they would enjoy the same respect and adoration these two men do today, or go on to be elected to president like Trump.
True. It’s really just about politics. You are right that that’s about the only time you find any shaming of men. Plus they were married.
Excellent post.
Thank you. 🙂
Men don’t slut shame other men, because of the work it usually takes for most men to have sex or get dates with women. Which is why a man being promiscuous means he’s gotten many women to want sex with him. This means he has something “looks, charm, $, humor, wit, intelligence, talent, swagger, one of these or maybe all combined. To attract women or many women. And the hotter the women, the more he’s seen as successful, as a hot woman one who many guys try to get, but many aren’t attractive enough or are not in her league in some manner or lack something. It’s because of our culture as you say I guess, because women are passive and don’t initiate and are the sex objects. So women are pickier and therefore, it’s harder for a man to get sex.
That’s why it’s seen that way. Women can get sex pretty easily as a result, which is why it’s not seen as an achievement. If women were visual, lustful, sex driven heathens like men, ha…and wanted sex just from a man’s looks and as interested and easily ready for sex like men. Then the high fives would be gone for men getting sex from women and less ego and praise to each other. As well as men and boys most likely wouldn’t think much of it, because then it wouldn’t place value or mean anything on a man’s sex appeal as it would mean women just want sex from various men regardless of their charm, like how men are toward women. But it’s not that way, and it’s a lot or trial and error for men, and therefore, a totem pole based on how some guys have top qualities needed to attracted various women. Women don’t need such top qualities to attract guys for sex right? Thus the difference. If men didn’t need it and could get sex and attract women for sex like women can for men, then this praise would be gone.
And all the work it takes for men to have sex is due to shaming women.
It makes women reluctant to have sex because they fear punishment.
And when women are constantly punished they learn to damp down there desire, Which leads to a loss of sexual interest — meaning it takes more to interest women into having sex.
I suspect you read this before but for anyone reading your comment and my response you might want to check these out:
Sex-Negative Societies & Non-Orgasmic Women
https://broadblogs.com/2016/01/04/sex-negative-societies-non-orgasmic-women/
Repression Shutting Down Sexuality
https://broadblogs.com/2015/12/14/repression-shutting-down-sexuality/
Religion Shutting Down Sexuality
https://broadblogs.com/2016/04/11/religion-shutting-down-sexuality/
Women Are More Responsive To Repression
https://broadblogs.com/2016/04/18/women-are-more-responsive-to-repression/
Repression: Not What You Think It Is
https://broadblogs.com/2014/10/27/repression-not-what-you-think-it-is/
It’s because it creates the divide or bigger divide of “have and have nots” between men. Sure the hotter the woman, the more attention she can get, which is why there is competition, So women can slut shame each other based on looks and because they know it hurts. But even with that said, it’s a smaller divide, because while the hottest women can get dates from high status men or hot guys more so. The average woman can still get sex relatively easily if she wants it. Whereas, there can be a big divide with a small percent of men getting sex somewhat regularly though even these guys probably have pursued many women and had a decent number of rejections too. And then other guys not getting a date or sex in a long time or very sparingly and difficult for them. It’s not an accomplishment if it’s easy or not the big divide. If there was less a divide and many “haves” and sex was easy it would be seen as no big of a deal and therefore, the high fives and brag aspect of getting laid would be gone.
So I don’t know if it would be a negative but it would not be praised anymore, because well any guy can just stand there and get sex right? Like why it’s not praise worthy for women getting laid right? But it isn’t. It’s weird though, I think it’s because there is not an insult that a man could use to another men who is getting laid that would hurt him. But I would have to think there are a decent number of men who envy, and resent these men who are getting all the girls. So they would call these men bad names if they could but because society congratulates such men and a positive thing. It’s like a man who is fat sees a fit handsome, and is like screw you fit guy ha. It doesn’t work because being fit is seen as a positive and it doesn’t hurt said guy. Just like calling a guy a man whore or slut even if meant to name call, doesn’t hurt, because that means the man whore has been successful and would easily turn it on the man about how he can’t get any girls. I think that’s why the word gay is used from men, because it’s a word they feel they can use against good looking guys or guys getting laid that could hurt them, because man whore doesn’t or wouldn’t as explained because of the positive connotation vs the negative connotation with “gay”.
“It’s not an accomplishment if it’s easy or not the big divide. If there was less a divide and many “haves” and sex was easy it would be seen as no big of a deal and therefore, the high fives and brag aspect of getting laid would be gone.”
Right, if you shame women for having sex then when a guy “conquers” a girl it’s more of an “Accomplishment.” That’s likely why slut-shaming is still sustained among many men.
But then it backfires on most men who support it because they are less likely to get sex. And women are less likely to enjoy it when they do have it because of the effects of repression, Which leaves nearly half of American women with sexual dysfunctions like low or no interest in sex, difficulty with orgasm, and painful sex.
“But I would have to think there are a decent number of men who envy, and resent these men who are getting all the girls. So they would call these men bad names if they could but because society congratulates such men and a positive thing.”
I would think so too. But because men get status from proving their manhood, And being accepted by “The brotherhood” helps men feel like they our accepted as men, that proof of manhood is just too valued to risk being not accepted by the group.
And of course, men have to prove they are men, but women don’t have to prove they are women, because we value of men and masculinity more. Women don’t have to prove that they are lower status — and why would you want to?
Every now and then one of my women students tells me that women have to prove their womanhood. But when we start talking about it, what they’re really talking about is proving that they are attractive — which is the primary way we seem to judge a woman’s status in our culture. And that’s a pretty superficial thing to judge by. Plus we’ve set impossible ideals that leave most women feeling inadequate. And if they live long enough — into their 40s or 50s — or particularly 60+ — no women fit it. Often leading to low self-esteem.