Homophobic Homosexuals (too unhappy to be gay)

Homophobia 2These homosexuals, they’ll trick ya. They’ll find out what kind of music ya like, what candy ya like, then they’ll invite you down to their house.

That’s what Tina Fey’s high school health teacher had warned her class about.

She continues this tale from Bossypants:

I couldn’t help but picture a young Mr. Garth being lured into a van by Paul Lynde. “Hey there, sonny, my friends and I were just going into the woods to enjoy some Jethro Tull and a Mars bar. Interested?” Oh, the shame that must have washed over Mr. Garth as “Minstrel in the Gallery” came to an end and he realized that there was no Mars bar! But there was no turning back. He had already eaten half of it.

Like Ms. Fey, I can’t help suspecting that Mr. Garth was doing his darndest to hide his sexual orientation from everyone, including himself.

Homophobic hostility convinces everyone that you must be straight, right?

And why else would he think that “gay recruiters” were irresistible?

The most homophobic are most likely homosexual

In fact, the most homophobic among us are most likely to be homosexual. (I hesitate to call them gay because they aren’t too happy.)

That’s right. In one study a group of (allegedly) straight men filled out questionnaires reflecting their levels of homophobia and sheer dread at interacting with gays:

How comfortable are you being alone in a room with a gay man?

And then they were wired up and shown gay porn.

Turned out, guys who were low in homophobia didn’t find the porn too arousing.

But the hostile homophobes sure did!

But why the anger?

A gay student of mine suggests it comes from resentment toward people who are free to be who they are.

Makes sense to me.

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About BroadBlogs

I have a Ph.D. from UCLA in sociology (emphasis: gender, social psych). I currently teach sociology and women's studies at Foothill College in Los Altos Hills, CA. I have also lectured at San Jose State. And I have blogged for Feminispire, Ms. Magazine, The Good Men Project and Daily Kos. Also been picked up by The Alternet.

Posted on May 27, 2016, in LGBTQ+, psychology and tagged , , . Bookmark the permalink. 50 Comments.

  1. Gosh, what a stressful comment section!

    The reality is that attraction and arousal are distinct (though often overlapping) facets of ‘desire’. We can find someone aesthetically attractive without wishing to engage romantically or sexually. We can be aroused, and even enjoy sex, without finding anyone particularly attractive or having desire to be with anyone at all.

    The human imagination is a powerful and flexible thing. We can relax and enjoy scenarios in books or other obviously ‘not real’ media such as anime that are entirely at odds with our sexual and romantic orientations, but once the immediate senses are engaged and the scenarios become ‘real’ we react very differently.

    How much of that difference is down to social conditioning, I don’t know. Much, I suspect, but not all. We do have innate orientations that influence how we respond to people in ‘real’ life. If we are fluid in ‘not real’ life, that is perfectly natural, and should not be used to imply fluidity in ‘real’ life.

    Some people are naturally fluid in ‘real’ life, their orientation(s) shifting over time. Some people, I think, use ‘fluid’ as a label to avoid the negative associations of ‘bisexual’. The idea that ‘straight men can have fluid sexuality’ is just confusing. People can be straight and still enjoy non-straight fantasies. For that matter, people can be straight and enjoy non-straight sex.

    Sexual orientation is not defined by whether and with whom you have sex.
    Sexual orientation is not defined by what arouses you.

  2. Is it homophobic that people don’t accept that straight men can have fluid sexuality?

    There you have it. Straight men admitting that they have fluid sexuality but people don’t accept that they know their sexuality so they call them gay


    • Some people in the gay community feel threatened by people who have flexibility and pressure them to “Admit” that they are really gay. That’s not homophobic so much as biphobic.

  3. It is unfortunate that in this day and age, when we have progressed so far as people, that homophobia still exists. Gay marriage is now legal, and yet this fear of homosexuality still exists in everyday life. I was at a bachelor party for a friend who is gay, and we were at a bar that was not a designated “gay bar”. The theme of the party was BDSM, and his maid of honor had him in a collar. She also had a crop that she would ask random strangers to spank him for luck in his upcoming nuptials. A few girls were more than game to join in on the fun and silliness, but a lot of the crowd, who were straight men, looked really disturbed and offended that we would even suggest something like this. This is at a bar in San Francisco in 2016. There are far more adventurous things that happen at bars in this city. I thought it was crazy that guys were that unwilling and offended by the thought of having a little fun with a bachelor party. Had it been a bachelorette party asking men to give the bride a spanking, I am sure that we would have gotten a very different response. It is just sad that homophobia still exists.

  4. Homophobia is a real fear, that sadly men experience more than women for the socio-historic impacts that have created and regenerate what it is to ‘be a man’. The foundations of gender restrict those outside of the given repertoire that is deemed ‘normal’, and criticize and exile those who are not. Therefore it is not surprising to hear or meet closet-gays because it completely makes sense. It’s sad, and it’s unfair, but it does. Heteronormativity forces ideals such as marriage, reproduction, monogamy into public and private spheres which creates a docile society who doesn’t know any better.
    This conversation can be connected towards exploring many different oppressed groups who feel shame from non-normative frameworks. The ideologies and the rhetoric that is used in queer spaces are important to not only consume but to spread, in order to effectively fight binary standards and categorical defects of our society.

  5. It definitely makes sense to me that homophobic people are the ones who aren’t comfortable being alone in a room with other men and they are also the ones who speak out the most against gays.

    I think being alone in a room with another man can be daunting to someone who doesn’t explore their sexuality (and is afraid to ) because they don’t know how they might react. Meaning they don’t want to know if they would enjoy male company in a intimate/sexual sense. Someone who is confident in their sexuality has no reason to be intimidated or afraid of what might happen if they are in the room with another person.

    • Yeah the personal discomfort with your own sexuality, anger at people who are free to be themselves, or trying to demonstrate to everyone else that you are not gay — because you are afraid they will figure out what you are — I’ll help to explain why homophobes are usually homosexual (but too unhappy to be gay).

      • Why are homophobes homosexual but can not be bisexual?
        So if a man is attracted to men then there is no way that he can also be attracted to women thus being bisexual instead of gay?
        All these reaserchs have done is to exclude the existence of male bisexuality.
        These reaserchs are doing more harm than good. They are dubbing bisexual men as gay, and because bisexual men don’t want to be misunderstood as being gay, they are repressing their bisexuality.
        People can’t tell the difference between bisexual and homosexual men and don’t care so they call them all as gay. It’s easier for them to wrap their heads around.
        Try this: replace the words “homosexual” and “gay” in your post with the word “bisexual”.
        You will see how wrong the conclusion of this study is

      • He could be bisexual

    • “another man can be daunting to someone who doesn’t explore their sexuality”

      I agree with most of what you’re saying and it’s true that people self confident in their sexuality aren’t afraid of what might happen. But why does a man or person have to “explore their sexuality” or why would it be daunting for someone who hasn’t? To me, exploring sounds like “bi-curiosity”, which I hear with women, whether kissing, thoughts, arousal, fantasies and thoughts of such. A person can be secure, be around a gay person or see a nude same sex person and not scared of that person or resent or be homophobic, because they know they aren’t attracted to the same sex.

      They can acknowlege of a person of same sex is good looking or has a good physique, but that;s it. A person can know they aren’t attracted to the same sex without having to explore their sexuality.For some people, their eyes tells them “all the information they need to know”. Some people or many guys don’t have to try or do anything to know they aren’t attracted to men and don’t want anything to do with men sexually because of what they ‘see’ hear, smell.

  6. Jean Claunde

    But what I find unbelievable is that are trying to rationalize this double standard. When you said that you were aroused by the female breasts and some users called you bisexual, you didn’t like it, you said “these men know my sexuality better than me”
    But now just because an odd research found out that some men might be aroused by gay porn (some lesbians are also aroused by gay porn but noone questions their sexuality) then everyone decides they are gay. It doesn’t matter if they actually want to have sex with men or not. The researchers know their sexuality better than them.
    How about men who read Men’s Health which shows photos of male models, are they gay too? Or men who watch bodybuilding contests, are they gay too?
    Any man who might find the male body attractive has to be gay by their logic, right?
    That’s why straight men don’t want to admit that Stallone might have an attractive body. Because someone will decide that they are gay

    • But I’m not hostile towards lesbians or bisexual women. So I don’t fit the study.

      And our culture bombards us with sexualized images of women so that both women and men can internalize the fetish — which is a social construction. Men don’t naturally have it either. Plus, there is evidence that women’s ability to respond to sexual stimulus is more flexible than men’s.

      On the other hand, our society does not bombard us with sexualized images of men’s bodies, leaving men internalizing a sense that men’s bodies are sexual. Although straight men who watch a lot of porn with ejaculation can come to get aroused just by seeing a penis via conditioning. But are these men hostile towards gay and bisexual men? I doubt that they all would be.

      So I’ve just spelled out two variances from the study. So you can’t equalize what you are trying to equalize here.

  7. ” In some ways they could be the most sexually repressed simply because they are punished for both sexual desire and sexual desire for the “wrong” sex. At the same time, there would be no conflict between their interest in women and finding sexualized images of women arousing.”

    I would think so if this was 10 years ago or back in time, or even a few years ago. But with how women to women relations is praised or society is less bothered by lesbian relations and with legalized gay marriages and how things have changed. If there is repression, it’s much less and I don’t think it’s really that much other than ultra conservative areas. Gay men I think have it much worse, whereas, lesbian women, not nearly repressed as far as them dating women and having sex with women. Our male dominated, culture is more accepting, because well, women to women is hot or fine, wheras, that’s gross and wrong coming from straight men about gay men and how society internalizes the straight male perspective like you said. So straight women can internalize that and see lesbian dating and sex as more socially acceptable than gay men sex which is gross. Though more women than before are looking at gay porn and yaoi and stuff so it naturally sounds like men having more of a problem with gay male relations than women and lesbian relations.

    So you add this, lesbians not really being repressed and I think straight women just as or more so repressed because of the slut shaming factor. Lesbians aren’t slut shamed like straight women and their lust and sexuality not shamed, so that’s why it’s weird that lesbians aren’t more visual. You said how repression and lack of images is why straight women are less visual or non fetishsized parts of the male body having to do with that. But yet lesbians I think are less repressed because of not being slut shamed and how society has become much more accepting of women who like women anyways, still work in progress for gay men. And then lesbians, well they have all the sexualized images of women, since it’s from a straight male perspective and you have the fetishsized and sexualized body parts and all that. But yes lesbians not moved or visual like straight men or like I sadi gay men still are more visually interested and lustfut to men’s bodies than lesbians to women’s for the fact or searching for nudity and porn.

    I definitely believe gay porn sites watched by gay men, there just are much more for them and more that gay men look at compared to lesbians looking at nude images of women and porn. More gay men search out men’s bodies than lesbians toward women’s bodies. So it’s interesting. Is there a biological limit? I think women would be more visual if not repressed and more sexualized images for women. But even so, it makes me wonder seeing how it is for lesbians. Everything on paper says they should be as visual as men if there is no biological difference. Don’t forget gay men are repressed too, yet highly visual to men like straight men to women. But lesbian having the visual, sexuaized images, less slut shamed,but still not as visual as men straight or gay and not like you’d think with all things said.

    • Even though we are overcoming homophobia when it comes to lesbians, it’s a recent thing to be more okay with them. And I think the place that lesbians are presented most positively — as if it’s a good thing — is in the porn that is directed toward men, which women often don’t watch. But for sure gay men have it a lot worse.

      Lesbians probably are less slut-shamed, But could still be more shamed another ways. But even if lesbians are not slut-shamed, They still live in a culture that looks down on women’s sexuality. Parents tend to be more silent or negative about sex with their daughters than their sons and words for sexual men are positive whereas words for sexual women are not. There are just a lot of things other than slut-shaming that teach us that women’s sexuality is more negative.

      Both lesbian and straight women do seem to respond to the breast fetish to some degree, So they are both visual. Straight women just have less Visual stimulus that is “okay.” Plus straight women experience the breast fetish differently. If they get into competition mode, Which is common, they are more focused on anger or insecurity or Pride than sexual interest. One is more important than the other in that circumstance. Plus, they could repress it because it’s not okay, And not feel it. Plus, they can just get more used to it because they are around naked breasts more often, Including their own, in situations where they aren’t fetishized. Plus, they aren’t attached to someone who fits there sexual orientation. And they don’t have a whole sub-culture hyping it all. So they can experience it but it is probably less strongly felt.

      Meanwhile we don’t do anything to the male body that creates a fetish: selectively hide and reveal; say “Don’t look” because it’s so sexy; culturally obsess over the body part. So women can certainly appreciate an attractive male body. But they probably won’t fetishize it.

  8. All studies so far have found out that no straight men were aroused by gay porn. I repeat “no straight men were aroused by gay porn”.
    But then all the sudden this study finds out that some straight men are aroused by gay porn!
    Wait a minute. If some straight men are aroused by gay porn then why did all the other researches so far fail to find that out?

    • That is what suggests that they are gay in actuality. Especially combined with the homophobia. When other men are free to do things that you would like to do but feel you cannot, you are likely to be very angry with them. You can also act homophobic in order to cover your homosexuality – hiding the fact from others or even from yourself. It’s the two parts combined that suggest these men are closeted homosexuals — not happy enough to be gay!

  9. Gotta love the Tina Fey story ~ brilliant, however extremely scary that there are still those types of folks out there who cannot come to the simple realization of homosexuality…which does make me wonder just what is it they fear, truth or realization of themselves.

    • Probably the latter.

    • Why do you mention only homosexuality but not bisexuality?
      Why do people always fail to mention that male bisexuality does exist?
      Do people believe that bisexuality is the same as homosexuality? Isn’t that homophobic?
      So you are saying that
      a) all men who are attracted to women are gay so bisexual men do not exist
      b) men who are attracted to men can not possibly attracted to women too so women should avoid bisexual men

      The possibility of male bisexuality wasn’t mentioned not even once in that study or in the comments.
      Why are people so afraid of male bisexuality?
      How many women would date or marry a bisexual man? I bet very few because people have ingrained that when a man is attracted to men then he has to be gay. People are afraid to mention the existence of bisexual men.
      Or how about men being simply “bicurious”? Isn’t that how straight women who like lesbian sex and lesbian porn identify so that to keep claiming that they are still straight?

  10. Jean Claunde

    They claim that straight men who are attracted to the male body are actually gay.
    How did they reach to the conclusion that they weren’t also attracted to women making them bisexual?
    If these reaserchers can’t tell the difference between straight men who are attracted to the male body just like straight women are, and bisexual and gay men then they are homophobic

    How could they explain that in ancient times men were attracted to the male body and considered it to be the epitome of beauty? So much about the myth of men’s rigid sexuality.

    In europe it’s customery for men to kiss other men on the cheeks for greetings. Is that also gay?
    Many straight men also like looking at male body building contests. Are they also gay?

    What is homophobic is all these reaserchs that call out as gay anything that has to do with the male body.
    If a straight man dares to look at another man and admit he is good looking then these researchers will dub him gay. That’s homophobia.
    Everyone ignores and ludicrous the male body because if they hint that they find it attractive then they will be called gay

    • I have no problem with the idea that men might be sexually fluid. In our society they are much less likely to be fluid because we disapprove of gays more than lesbians. And more importantly, we do very little to sexualize the male body in our society. Plus, for biological reasons it may be more difficult for men to be fluid, as I explained earlier. This discussion you linked to is talking about man getting aroused by penises after they have watched many penises ejaculating. I think I have already talk to you about this and said that it’s conditioning — they come to associate penises with orgasm, which makes them exciting. So there is one way in which men could be fluid.

      If these so-called straight guys didn’t have the anger toward gay men — that Straight men didn’t have, your point would make sense.

      But the data I’m talking about in this post is looking at men who claim to be straight, yet who get aroused by gay porn, AND who hate homosexuals. It makes a lot of sense that these guys are secretly gay but angry at men who are free to express their sexuality. Why else are they so hateful toward men who are aroused by men?

      • You wrote ” I have no problem with the idea that men might be sexually fluid. ”
        I am sorry but you just like most women wouldn’t like it if men might be sexually fluid.
        You wrote a post “I don’t want to marry a gay cowboy”. The vast majority of women wouldn’t be able to handle it if their boyfriend or husband had fluid sexuality and was attracted to the male body.
        It doesn’t matter if that guy was bisexual (thus still attracted to women) or straight with some fluid sexuality. If a man is anything less than 110% heterosexual then people dub him gay. Not bisexual. Not bicurious. Just gay. Just like that study mentioned in this post.
        Even if they were attracted to men, how these reaserchers excluded the possibility that they might be bisexual (thus still attracted to men) and they concluded they are gay?

        A straight female friend once told me “it’s ok for women to try other women. But it’s not ok for men to try other men. It compromises their masculinity.”

        Just take a look at the media. Music videos and movies that’s all about bisexual or homosexual women.
        What about men’s sexuality?
        There are some gay male characters in movies but they are portrayed as “weak and funny”.
        How many bisexual men have you seen in the media?
        Probably none because if a man is bisexual then people just dub him gay.
        I am not bisexual but I don’t like double standards. And it’s obvious that male bisexuality is the most ignored sexuality. Noone accepts the possibility that men can be bisexual.
        Just take a look of the title of this post. Why isn’t “too unhappy to be bisexual”? I will tell you why. It’s because people and even scientists can’t deal with male bisexuality. So if a man is attracted to the male body (regardless of actually having sex with men or not) they conclude that he is gay. People can’t accept male bisexuality. Women don’t want to date and marry bisexual men. So bisexual men repress their attraction to men and just date women

      • I can’t imagine that these men would be any more happy at the notion of being bisexual.

        Straight men are the only “real men” in the mind of a homophobe.

        And we live in a culture that is more accepting of bisexuality in women than in men, For sure. And that is oppressive for bisexual men.

  11. You may not post this because it disproves what that study concludes but here it is

    Straight men can get aroused to gay porn and still be straight

  12. In my country, gays is still in a weak position in China, in order to strive for the relatively loose living environment, most gay or conceal their sexual orientation. This makes them very unhappy. By study, 95.24% of gay said face of the real pressure is ever bother to even 33.33% of the people had thought of suicide. The difficulties they face that have great influence to their own psychological health. Because of the special groups, in exchanges with others, they will care about others’ opinion, usually will not disclose their sexual orientation.

    In most gay psychological, they are eager to be understood and identity, but there will be a variety of worries and considerations, the various aspects of psychological pressure deliberately disguise or conceal their sexual orientation.

  13. I think part of the problem is that previous studies measured women’s “arousal” in terms of vaginal lubrication and it turns out that lubrication does NOT necessarily indicate arousal at all. There is a theory that women will lubricate at any suggestion of sex in the vicinity, even when looking at videos of gorillas having sex, as an evolutionary defense against injury in case of rape. So claims that large numbers of straight women become “aroused” when looking at videos of lesbian porn are probably exaggerated. Measuring arousal in women is a whole lot more complicated than measuring it in men.

  14. I find it so ironic that these men that are homophobic and homosexual are a huge part of the reason that it’s so difficult for men to be open and out. Men are taught that it is manly and “correct” to be attracted to women, more over, to desire to be dominant of women. When men for any reason display disinterest in domination of or attraction to women they are considered lesser than men that do. Unfortunately a large portion of the male population that treats these men as lesser is in fact covering for the fact that they themselves hold the same disinterest in women and their domination. It’s a vicious cycle specifically involving any perceived lack of sexual attraction to women (this applies not only to gay men but to bisexual, pansexual, asexual men and so on). When men are perceived to lack sexual interest in women, by being attracted to men or not attracted to women, men treat them as inferior, but it is often men in the same camps with the same orientations that are doing the mistreating which is toxic to the gay community. This same attitude is perpetuated in the straight community in the mistreatment of men who don’t aspire to dominate or mistreat women. In our culture it’s considered admirable and ideal for men to sexually use and dispose of women frequently. When we live in a culture where disinterest in this “ideal” is punished even for straight men, how can we expect gay men to feel any safer in our society? How can we ever advance the treatment of women with this systematic punishment of those who treat us with respect and systematic reward to those who don’t?

  15. “In terms of bodily sensations past studies suggest that homophobic and non-homophobic women would both be aroused my lesbian porn. But that’s not what you find in terms of gay and straight men responding to gay porn. Partly because men’s sexuality is less flexible in terms of arousal. And partly because the context of our world does not sexualize the male body in the way that it eroticizes the female body.”

    You said to jean claude that you believe it’s because women’s sexuality is repressed and lower that women are senstive to context more, because not in a constant state of arousal like men. But I believe I saw a study how the women on the bell curve who are more visual and horny than average, often tend to have a bi curious or bi sexual tendency. Women with higher sex drives more likely bisexual attraction, even if most or more of it is to men, women more likely to be attracted to women with the higher sex drives. So that says something or against the theory about women being more responsive to context or sex situations because of a lower sex drive and more sensitive. If that was the case, then women with higher sex drives would have increased attraction visually and ONLY to men, but it doesn’t seem to work that way. Tendencies that maybe be dormant otherwise are energized for women with high sex drives and goes to women.


    “In contrast, among heterosexual female participants, high sex drive was correlated with increased attraction to both men and women. Thus, whereas a higher sex drive appears to energize only men’s dominant sexual tendencies, it appears to energize all sexual tendencies in women. There is one exception to this, however, which is that lesbians’ pattern of responses looked more like the typical male pattern than the typical female pattern. That is, among lesbian participants, high sex drive was only linked to increased attraction to women, but not men.”


    • Maybe bisexual women are just less repressed? And as such, more in tune with all of the possible things that could turn them on. And that’s what you get these patterns.

      • Ok, you mention female bisexuality. Are bisexual women the same as homosexual women?
        Why the title of the article states “homophobic homosexuals” but not “homophobic bisexuals”?
        Then they could still be attracted to women too
        You say that bisexual women may be more repressed.
        Perhaps it’s bisexual males who are more repressed.
        The media portrays gay male characters but never bisexual men

      • No, you misunderstood what I said. See my response to Bob.

      • If that’s the case about repression. Shouldn’t lesbians be the least repressed, but yet lesbians seem just as visual or unvisual with women’s bodies as straight women are to men’s. Maybe they are more visual than straight women, but not to the level gay men seem to be toward men’s bodies. Why would bisexual women have higher sex drives or possibly be more visual than lesbians? Is it a boosted sex drive that energizes and turns on something dormant from straight women to have bi tendencies? But I find it interesting though. Because it’s really about women having sex or lusting MEN that’s punished, or where women are seen as sluts and such. Lesbians aren’t seen as sluts. They might be seen by some ultra conservative people as “wrong”. But something fasciniating and what doesn’t seem to be talked about is how, in a male run society its about MEN that makes women be judged as sluts and such. I’ve noticed this, whether dressing provacative to attractive men, behavior, and promiscuity. This is judged upon women’s relation to men,

        I don’t know if it’s because sex with men is seen as more as “sex” because there’s penetration and such or it’s taken more seriously or the fact of the aspect of pregnancy from having sex with a man. But women are slutty if having sex with a lot of MEN, but less people seem to care or notice for bisexual women if they sleep with a lot of women. Bisexual women can be seen as slutty or bi curious straight girls seen a slutty if making out with another girl, because it’s the thought that is’ done to attract guys. But here’s an example. Say you have two bisexual girls and for whatever reason, their sexual past is out in the open and men and women learn of their partners and numbers. Say girl one is 27 years old and has had sex with 30 people. Say it’s 25 men she’s had sex with and 5 women to make it 30 people. Say girl two is 27 years old as well. She’s had 30 partners, but the difference is she’s had sex with 25 women, but only 5 men. I would bet 100 dollars girl one is much much more likely to be seen as the “slut” or sluttier than girl two, because of it being with men and how society perceives girls fooling with a lot of boys vs girls. Think about it. A college girl that guys and girls learn basically slept with the whole frat house would most likely be seen as a slut and much more likely compared to a college girl that slept with the whole sorority house, and no men involved with that. I’d like to gauge into that more and the psychology to that, but I find it interesting. If it’s about sex and numbers you’d think views would be treated equally. For whatever reason, probably patriarchy, men are the slut makers apparently. Meaning being promiscuous with men or for men’s atractions and attentions whether, clothe etc is seen as slutty in relation to men. If it’s about women to women it’s not as much.

        I wonder if it’s because of this ultra alpha male competition men have or society where it;s a control thing. Guys aren’t competing with women or egos and sexual conquest geared toward that, plus the wanting to make sure the kid is yours aspect. A man isn’t going to be afraid a women will be pregnant from another woman obviously Or that he has to worry if the baby is his if she’s only had sex with women before him right?

      • I suspect that all of us have some capacity for flexible sexual interest, and if a woman were especially on repressed, she would be more sexually interested and more aware of her capacity for sexual interest in both men and women. Lesbians are different story. In some ways they could be the most sexually repressed simply because they are punished for both sexual desire and sexual desire for the “wrong” sex. At the same time, there would be no conflict between their interest in women and finding sexualized images of women arousing.

        Wouldn’t surprise me if heterosexual women are more slut-shamed. For the reason you describe. We are becoming more sensitive to lesbians and homophobia, which could actually protect the lesbian. But also women often slut-shame out of jealousy, and they don’t need to be jealous of lesbians. And men who slut-shame would probably be more focused on women who sleep with men, too.

        While slut-shaming is only found in patriarchies, women actually do it more than men these days. That said, slut- shaming is a sensual for the games that frat boys and others play, whereby they score points by getting women to sleep with them – and losing (women losing). If women are free to have sex just like men, this game wouldn’t work.

  16. Jean Claunde

    I am sorry but this is irrelevant. If they did get aroused by gay porn does that prove that they aren’t actually straight but gay in denial?
    Then all those straight women who are sexually aroused by lesbian porn and naked women are bisexual or lesbians in denial.
    So does sexual arousal indicates sexual orientation only for men but not for women?

    • Actually, your comment is irrelevant to this study.

      The study you are citing, and this study, are measuring two different things.

      This study was looking for a correlation between homophobia and arousal. The other study didn’t separate women who are homophobic from those who weren’t and check to see if the more homophobic women were more aroused.

      The other study found that man’s arousal matched their orientation. This study shows that that is true unless the men are homophobic. Which suggests that they are trying to hide something.

      And women’s sexuality in terms of arousal versus orientation seems to be more flexible than men’s, for reasons I have discussed before. In other words, they could find the images arousing and yet have no desire to have sex with the women. Meaning that their sexual orientation hadn’t changed.

      Researchers think that women’s sexuality may be more flexible in terms of stimulation/arousal because while men’s sex drive is constantly high, so that they are constantly aroused by the things that naturally arouse them, women’s sex drive is lower much of the time, and then rises at ovulation. So when it is lower it is piqued by context. And:

      Our society bombards everyone, women and men alike, with sexualized images of women. We all aren’t bombarded constantly by sexualized images of men.

      Given the difference in social context and biology you can’t make the claim you are making.

      But thanks for your comment, it helps to clarify things for everyone. 😊

      • Jean Claunde

        These men identify as straight. But it was found out that they were aroused by gay porn. So the article concluded that these men are gay in denial because of that arousal. Should I quote the article where it concludes that these men who self identify as straight are actually gay in denial because of the arousal pattern?

        So my question is: does sexual arousal indicate sexual orientation?
        If not, then why does that article concludes that “In one study a group of (allegedly) straight men”
        Why does this article call these men “allegedly” straight men and go on concluding that they are homosexual?

        Then you wrote that you were sexually aroused by the female breasts and some people concluded that you were bisexual you said that these people can’t possibly know your sexuality better than you.
        But yet here we are where some article writer knows the sexuality of these men and identifies them as homosexual even though they identify as straight.

        I don’t really like double standards.

        There is a book “men are from mars, women are from venus” and you said that we aren’t very different from each other. Yet here we are saying that men’s sexuality is different than women’s.

        If you really think about it this kind of articles add up to homophobia. Because it teaches us that if straight men are aroused/attracted/admire the male body then they can’t be straight.
        This article warns straight men “don’t you dare to find the male body attractive because I will conclude that you are homosexual in denial”

      • I think his point is that, the study seems to draw the conclusion that the homophobic men are ‘secretly gay or bi” based on their arousal from gay porn, when no such conclusion comes from straight women aroused by lesbian porn. Yes I know there isn’t a study for homophobic women and women are less homophobic and probably because it doesn’t make a difference for women. I personally think, from my view that, a man would most likely have to have some bi tendencies atleast to be aroused by gay porn, because of how I see visual arousal, lust and attraction connected, just like the body response of hunger for a particular food and desire to eat that food correlarted to hunger and connected.

      • Right. But there is 1) a different social contextand The female body is more sexualized than the male body in our culture, and we are much more bombarded by sexualized images of women. 2) Women and men have a different biology, with women’s Arousal, but not orientation, more flexible.

        In terms of bodily sensations past studies suggest that homophobic and non-homophobic women would both be aroused my lesbian porn. But that’s not what you find in terms of gay and straight men responding to gay porn. Partly because men’s sexuality is less flexible in terms of arousal. And partly because the context of our world does not sexualize the male body in the way that it eroticizes the female body.

        When both biology and culture are so different in terms of women and men, you can’t make a direct comparison. It’s apples and oranges.

  17. Society raises boys to be ‘men’ and encourages aggression and discourages introspection. Couple that pressure with the fear of weakness and loneliness in being different, and it’s easier to ‘belong’ with those who actively deny… It’s as much about convincing yourself that you aren’t gay, as it is about convincing others.

    • Yes, I’m sure that most of them are also trying to convince themselves that they are not gay. but I read an article by one guy who knew he was gay but was busy trying to convince everyone else that he wasn’t via homophobia, so sometimes it works that way, too.

      • Jean Claunde

        If a straight man is aroused by the male body and gay porn then you conclude that he has to be gay in denial even though he self identifies as straight?

        When some users concluded that you are bisexual because you were aroused by the female body were they right?

        See the double standard here?

        So all these men who read Men’s Health and like the male body have to be gay then?

        Let me ask you this
        Can straight men be attracted/aroused/admire the male body and still be straight?

      • It’s apples and oranges as I just explained to Bob. Take a look at what I wrote to him.

  18. Well… statistically speaking it is a fact that homosexual men are 20 times as likely to abuse children than heterosexual men[1], so giving such a warning to school children is not that ridiculous.

    [1] Freund, “Heterosexuality, Homosexuality, and Erotic Age Preference,” p. 107.

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