Men Seeking Women For Self-esteem
By “Bob”
It’s sad that some women may rely on men for their self-esteem due to harmful messages about being an inferior gender.
But I think it goes both ways. I think just as many men seek women for self-esteem, though for different reasons.
I started thinking about this after reading these words from Maria Infante on your blog:
For as long as I can remember I looked to men for approval. Why? Maybe it was my absent father who was only around for dinner and bed. He paid the rent but didn’t show me much interest. And he favored cousin Daniel over me. So I made it my mission to become his favorite child.
I sought his love and attention by cutting my hair to look more like Daniel, and I wore clothes that looked like my cousin’s. But instead of being invited to join dad and Daniel, I was scorned and left behind.
Always longing for men’s approval I became promiscuous in my teens. I guess I had “daddy issues.”
I’m sorry that Maria has suffered from low self-esteem and has made harmful choices due to a society that looks down on being female. But at the same time, boys’ self-esteem is so often based on women’s response and attraction to them that guys can also put unwarranted stress on themselves as they seek validation from women, and lose peace of mind in the process.
Some boys listen to other boys brag about getting hot girls, and they see other boys doing what they desire. And these other, more sexually successful boys may even be less attractive, or even downright douche bags, yet they still get laid. So the rest of us get the feeling of missing out, and feel a sense of failure or undesirability. Now add a sense of competition with other men — feeling we don’t measure up — and that just adds salt to the wound.
It’s weird how much joy, pride and anger, for boys, is actually based on female desire or lack of desire for them. It’s just amazing how boys’ happiness and self-esteem is based on all this.
Just speaking as a man and observing how — god! — men do so much for female approval. The middle aged guy with the Porsche? You think it’s just because he likes flashy cars? Hmm, most likely it’s “peacocking” to show off to women. Now think about all their work moving up the golden chains to have money, and then spending it to look better than other men in order to impress women.
Boys and men feel so dependent on women for validation, leading them to feel happy or depressed.
You know how with rich and poor we talk of the “haves” and the “have nots”? It seems that as far as dating there are a few men who get all the pleasure and ego strokes while other guys are like paupers, just getting crumbs. And in terms of ego strokes its the reverse — ha!
And then women get blamed, and that’s wrong, as more often than not it’s the guys’ faults holding them back. But it’s very hard to swallow your pride and admit your faults.
In fact, I think it sucks for women because they are often the losers in this, being the pawns of men’s egos competing with each other. So men are unhappy too, because all the competition is f*cking stressful!
It’s hard because our society — not just men, but society — shapes people to be so competitive with each other. When you compare yourself to others, you’re bound to be unhappy, because someone is always more talented, better looking, smarter and more successful. So it’s just a set up to being dissatisfied. I’m saying that as a man who struggles with this problem, because I’m such a competitive person in just about every way.
But in my opinion dudes are selling themselves short. But why are we selling ourselves short?
So many of us compare ourselves to other men and base our self-esteem on women’s approval, which just leads to unhappiness. Instead, we should stop worrying about how we compare with others and shift our focus to see that there really is so much to be thankful for and to be happy about.
***
Hi Bob. BroadBlogs here.
I think this is the first time I have responded to a post from an author.
I appreciate your articulating what I’m sure many men feel (I’ve heard their complaints), while noting how commonly we unconsciously get caught up in competition and feel bad about ourselves. I also appreciate your pointing out that women end up getting hurt by being pawns in this made up male competition. And how it’s important to base your self-esteem on something other than a stupid competition that society sets up and that we unconsciously internalize. So I appreciate your articulating an experience that many men complain about while actually taking the time to stand apart to question the whole thing.
BTW, Michael Kimmel, who studies men, says that men frequently overestimate how much sex other men get. Partly because most of the stories you hear from other guys are made up and partly because things like pornography make men think that other men are having much more sex than they actually are.
And then of course, women who have a lot of sex are often shamed and yet men get angry that they can’t easily get sex. These are two dynamics, created by our culture, that work against each other.
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Posted on May 24, 2022, in men, psychology and tagged INCEL, men, self-esteem. Bookmark the permalink. 126 Comments.
BroadBlogs 
What are your thoughts on things going on politically, I’m afraid Trump will look like a warrior to american public from him surviving the assassination attempt. I obviously don’t wish that trump died. But I feel the pics and optics might’ve sold to middle voters to vote for him, hopefully not. As much of an issue trump winning will be, I also have to blame the democrats. They did a bad job procrastinating and planning. They haven’t done enough to reach out to middle voters. As dumb as the convention looked, I’ve seen form outlets the republicans have put effort trying to sell the good to middle voters.
Biden is just having a hard time talking now and 2/3 democrats I read hope he steps down, it’s such a mess. But the fact is, it’s been so many months prior, yet they never had back up plan and Biden’s mental acuity all this time they had to be aware of. And it just shows the problem with politics here, the two parties but $ to one or the other, but often young upcomers don’t get the donors or funds to come on,let alone if there was every the $ and strong build with a third party. That was always just an extra or doesn’t help it has someone cooky like rfk jr
Man I wish there was a strong president that was like more moderate. It’s the darn far right and left too messing things up but especially far right. They’ve taken over what used to be moderate republicans in white house to ultra right christian conservatives who want to mess with peoples rights and help the elite. But there are parts of both sides that are appealing with republican and democrats that aren’t far right or far left. I do feel democrats are a bit too lenient often times with policies regarding criminals and bail reform. I’ve seen too much of it in my state of damn criminals assaulting someone or breaking in in cities, same damn person despite convicted multiple times and in jail, they are let out soon. Or worse like catch and release.
I mean california had a string of break in, smash and grab groups or criminals stealing left and right and the business owners distraught from not getting help or seeing the same criminal the next damn week that broke in their place because of liberal policies. But then you have far right conservatives that have to try to go ultra strict with women’s reproductive health regarding abortion and some denying climate change or global warming so helping big oil business and not caring about destroying this planet. Neither side anymore like back in the day can see the benefit of some parts of one side policies and bad and good of the other and bad.
But then again i’m an independent so I can easily play devil’s advocate for democrats and republicans based on the policies and politicians
Things are pretty topsy-turvy in politics. It plays like a movie or TV show. Except I wouldn’t find it believable if it were on TV.
I’m not sure how much the assassination attempt will help Trump, though, because it was a very macho, strong stance, and I think the people who are drawn to that are already with him. It didn’t make me like him any more. And I think the polling bore that out. I was actually surprised that some people thought it would help him swing voters. I mean he’s still a threat to democracy. He still seems super racist and sexist. Nothing that swing voters worry about him changed.
When I first heard that Biden wanted to have an early debate, I thought it was so that just in case he blew it, they could get a new candidate in. And then he blew it, and he still wanted to stay in, which I couldn’t believe! I was praying he would leave. Finally happened!
I had hoped we would have an open convention, and that we would end up with Shapiro/Whitmer because, due to the electoral college, all of the blue states will vote Democratic and all of the red states will vote Republican, and the swing states most likely to be picked up by Democrats are Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin. And Shapiro is a popular governor of Pennsylvania and Whitmer is a popular governor of Michigan, so I thought the two of them could get those two states, and then easily pick up Wisconsin, partly because they could both focus on it, and partly because Wisconsin was the only swing state that was largely in the Biden camp, despite all his shortcomings.
Instead, everyone quickly got on the Harris bandwagon. I was worried at first, but now I am hopeful about all the excitement she has created. And she seems to be energizing and uniting people who were either against Biden, or just not excited. At the same time, we will see how far the country has come in terms of overcoming racism and sexism.
I agree that Democrats have gone too far in terms of being easy on criminals. But most Democrats are coming to the same conclusion, as you can see voters in San Francisco and Portland voting out the crazy. Haven’t been to Portland down San Francisco I will also say that reports of their demise are wildly exaggerated. Particularly San Francisco. San Francisco is lovely, I go there all the time. So long as you avoid the tenderloin and a bit of overflow into the Civic Center and theater district. I was in Portland about a year ago and didn’t see quite a bit of homelessness, but from what I have heard they now have a new mayor and governor who are big dealing with a problem. I’m interested to visit in about a year and see how things look. Smash and grab seems to be down in CA — I haven’t heard too many reports of it in the last year and a half. At least when the Left sees that things aren’t working, they’re willing to try something else.
Biden wasn’t very good at selling Democratic ideas. I’m hoping Kamala will be better.
One thing I will say for Trump is he is very good at selling himself.
And, of course, moneyed interests I’ve been pretty successful at getting politicians and right wing media to deny the reality of climate change. Meanwhile, the religious right is hell-bent on limiting women and their rights.
About half of humans seem to be born with a conservative mindset, while the other half of a liberal mindset, and all of them existing on, continuing from far left and far right. I think the Christian nationalism largely because so much change has been happening, both technological and social (race and gender) and more conservative people feel great discomfort with change. So I think we would have less backlash if the left would lighten up a bit, looking down the road and seeing what’s possible, but considering how so much change can lead to backlash, making things worse. Maybe much worse with a loss of democracy and self rule in favor of authoritarianism.
You do make a good point, I think there are definitely things the left could do to calm things down. I feel a lot is good intention but sometimes it’s over correcting which feels like it’s forced down ppls throats. Or like I said regarding criminal handling and too lenient. There are things messed up in ny that have not been good that still need to be fixed. I’m not crazy about Kamala because I’ve heard ppl not crazy about her, but then again ppl can learn and get better. Some thought she wasn’t likeable, but I’m hearing she’s been more endearing than before. Let’s not forget, she’s been vp for 4 years now, so I’m sure just like ppl have growth in any career or with experience, maybe this has helped her get ready. I think Buttigieg could have been good, my mom likes him too. He doesn’t actually sound like super liberal to me and he’s very smart and a good debater with personality too. But yet in america even in 2024 I feel he never went further and he never was seen as presidential because he’s gay and not enough ppl in america would vote for him just because of that.
But I get why kamala was chosen, there isn’t much time to go through this process when just a few months away. She has experience being in the white house as vp and seeing what it’s like and duties of a president working with Biden. She’s definitely quite a bit younger than Biden and she has an energy to her that;s needed. They also need a known person whereas other governors might take more time and effort to get public aware and for them. I’ve heard some of her stuff lately and she actually seems to be better talking. Some said she used to not always have the personality or where she was like super liberal. But i’ve seen stuff at her recent rallies and she actually showerd charisma and seemed to do well. The rallies were rocking actually, 10,000 ppl and other one’s were packed and filled up. She was getting big crowds at her rallies and big reactions. I thought she might be too lenient with criminals or border stuff, but I think she might be more balanced and tough when she needs to be than some may think. She was a former prosecutor.
What is funny is Trump has dodged debating her, he plays the macho tough guy card, yet he’s scared of debating her. I think it’s because deep down he knows she will call out his bs, she’s smart and she has some sass too which I think is big. Biden almost seemed too nice toward trump. I’m not saying Harris to stoop to trumps level. But she will get him on his bs where Biden has the chances and just didn’t do it and part to do with his age too and how hard it was for him to talk.
I broke this up because I didn’t want to write all this and something happens where I lose connection and effort goes to waste and to not make paragraphs too long. So like I said how hard it was for Biden to talk. If a debate happens, I hope Kamala hits trump hard with project 2025 and what’s that all about? I mean the liar he is says he has no idea what that is and would not go along with said policies. Despite most of the ppl behind it have worked with him, know him and he’s praised. She doesn’t have to go to his level to hit him as she’s a professionl, she doesn’t need to go low because he does. That would make ppl not look at kamala as highly either. All she has to do, is lightly interrogate and question his denials. Like when he said christians won’t have to vote again because he’ll have things fixed. That sure sounded corrupt to me, like he wants to be a dictator and have limitless terms. Fox news who kiss his ass, actually questioned him in the interview since they are worried about trumps antics. They literally brought up with trump one of the main women on it. She literally was setting up trump an out to reassure his comments did not mean what ppl thought, and yet he get side stepping it lol, It’;s because he meant it.
I think trump is scared of kamala too because she’s smart, smarter than him. And being a former attorney, she can see through bs easily. She can cut right through the denials and use his words against him. He;s emotional and an ego maniac so just going at his ego can get him flustered especially when facts are brought. She can use her attorney skills and ability to interrogate to make trump look as a bumbling fool. Biden couldn’t do that, trump knew it, trump had biden’s age and things to pick on and divert. She doesn’t have any scandals too for him to focus on where Trump would focus on Biden’s son Hunter. I also feel what hurt Hillary is many ppl didn’t like her, even independents and Trump as the time even tho he still talked like an idiot. There was novelty, he was new, ppl were tired of politicians. They felt he was speaking for the common man, when we know he’s not. Plus the email thing also hurt hillary which is ironic because that was seemingly a small thing, especially considering what trumps been involved with and all that.
But now, things are not new with trump. That novelty has worn off. And lately he’s been going on ramblings which has even got the attention of republicans who don’t want to do with trump. There are too many gop loving on trump, but 44 republicans and many politicians and ppl who worked with trump don’t want to do with trump. The problem is ppl who are for trump, they just watch their fox news and just obvlious and don’t see this stuff. Like these are huge red flags. So I hope ppl especially young ppl go out to vote so trump does not win and get many democrats in congress and house. Need to get blue wave on top of that. The way I look at it, even if kamala doesn;t do well, it doesn;t kill our country. Inflation is bad and it’s shitty with how its affecting ppl paying for food and things. But it has come in waves throughout american history. There was strong inflation I thought in the 70s during Carters time. But what doesn’t rebound is if a dictator like trump messes with our democracy. I think and hope the one thing kamala doesn;t go hard at and careful with her comments is gun control. That has hurt democrats and the ones who lost in the past are one’s who said things or vehement with saying stuff about strict gun laws. I think it’s good to not be easy on things even tho I feel many criminals get guns through the dark market.
This is important, but for now, it’s big to see the real big picture. Something to really focus on at a later time, but whats most important is for kamala to win the election. If it means not going too strong about her talks about guns, then so be it. There;s a real threat of democracy. Get in then she can handle things regarding guns or the next democrat if trump is done for, and maybe some gop ousted with kamala in and a blue wave.
I love Pete Buttigieg. He was my top choice in 2020 until I saw polling in swing states — where Biden had the best shot. I was worried about homophobia, but anyone that homophobic is probably voting for Trump already. I suspect America will become less homophobic overtime, too. I’m hoping he will be president one day.
But gosh, Kamala has been so much better the second time around. I’ve been surprised at how good she is at campaigning, and amazed at the positive energy coming her way. It’s giving me hope. She’s actually got a pretty moderate record. But because she’s from the Bay Area people assume she’s liberal. I think with her presidential aspirations she probably knew she needed to be moderate from the start. Typically prosecutors aren’t super liberal, which was hurting her in the 2020 Dem primary, where liberals are most active.
But a lot of liberal proposals are actually pretty popular. Here’s what Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz had to say (excerpts):
Kids are eating and having full bellies, so they can go learn, and women are making their own health-care decisions. And we’re a top five business state, and we also rank in the top three of happiness… (Liberals are) reducing carbon emissions (so less fires/smoke, hurricanes, tornadoes, less drought — and less costs to deal w/all those). You’re going to have health insurance.
I’ll add: tax the rich, not the middle-class. Conservatives want tax breaks for the wealthy paid for by cutting Social Security and Medicare.
The only major legislation Trump got passed while he was in office was tax cuts where 80% of it benefited the wealthy and corporations. And then he gave out a little bit out for everyone else so they’d think they got something.
So many people I know only watch Fox News and they don’t get full information. It’s easy to manipulate people when they only have one news source and they don’t get a variety of perspectives.
Meanwhile, Trump complains about her on immigration, but there was a really tough immigration bill crafted by some pretty conservative Republicans, along with some Democrats — and much better than Republicans ever thought they could get in a by Pardison Congress ready to be signed by President Biden, but Trump told members of Congress not to vote for it because he wanted the issue to run on. He only cares about winning, not actually fixing problems.
Another problem is that people think the president has a lot of control over inflation when the inflation we have been facing was global and caused by the end of Covid. I’m not from the US has fared better than most countries. During Covid people saved a lot of money because they weren’t going out, plus there were supports to help keep the economy from collapsing. There wasn’t time to figure exactly how much to give to everyone or the economy will collapse by the time it was figured out. So there was a lot of money and then Covid ended in people could get out and spend and they were so anxious to spend that there was too much money chasing too little product. And then the types of product people were buying Shifted. So supply chains had to retool to meet demand, and that took some time. And meanwhile, while people were anxious to start traveling, which made gas prices, go up, OPEC decided to raise prices too. Biden didn’t have control over any of that.
But if Trump gets in, things would likely be inflationary in that he wants to raise tariffs, which are taxes that get passed to the consumer. He also wants to take charge of the federal reserve, rather than have it be independent, which would likely be inflationary, because he would want to stoke the economy. And cutting immigration too much wood also caused inflation because there wouldn’t be enough workers. So immigrants are willing to pick crops very low wages, and that would stop. So either you would have to pay people more money to pick crops or there would just be less food. I have family in Utah, and there aren’t enough people to work as waiters. The governor of Utah actually said he needed more immigrants to go to that state. Well, that would become a problem, nationwide.
On gun control I think you can pick your battles. Even gun owners tend to favor things like red flag laws, which alert gun sellers to people who have mental illness, or a criminal background.
Yeah, Trump seems to be scared of a girl. Doesn’t want to debate her. Like she says, he talks behind her back, but he won’t say it to her face. As a former prosecutor, I think she would be pretty good at debating him. He always acts like women and people of color are less intelligent than white men, and he is terrified of her turning the tables on him.
I know a lot of Republicans or conservatives who figure, like you, that Kamala can’t do that much damage in four years. But Trump taking away American’s self-rule would do a huge amount of damage. And then, if they find they don’t like him because he just does what the wealthy want, they can’t vote him out.
And then Trump telling Christians that if they vote for him, they will never have to vote again because he will fix things? The “reasoning” I’ve heard suggesting he doesn’t mean turning the US into a dictatorship doesn’t make any sense. And he has said before that he wanted to be dictator. When Sean Hannity questioned him on that, it took quite a bit of prodding for Trump to get it down to, “Well, I will be dictator on day one.”
But a lot of people also don’t realize how our democracy doesn’t just self-perpetuate. Modern democracies, usually die first with a vote, and then the president taking over things like the Supreme Court. Which he seems to have done with the Supreme Court giving him full immunity in anticipation of him coming to power. Full immunity os scary power right there. Jailing or killing off his political enemies and that’s OK?
I was worried that young people wouldn’t bother to go out and vote when Biden was the candidate. They are the ones who will be hurt the most. At least they are getting excited with Kamala.
So those are my thoughts. What are yours?”
My thoughts are that, while there are good points of masculinity. I do feel the author had a good point, this is a woman mind you too that is the author. I do think, while conservative or views can be toxic from the right being overly aggressive and macho, Democrats often denounce toxic masculinity which makes sense, but don’t provide young boys an idea of a model of masculinity that’s masculine without it going almost feminine. I believe a man can be strong but also gentle and have this good blend. I mentioned how a show character represented that, but I don’t think you watched all of it ha. I also feel she made a good point about how boys can feel isolated because like she noted. Obama had a good program to help young boys in troubled areas without fathers or to help them bounce back but it became “well what about girls or women?” thing from democrats and like a competition of women or girls needing it more or have it worse. It seems easy for boys to get lost in the shuffle because of many things, lack of support and pulled in opposite directions. You need to be assertive, but not too assertive. It can feel like a balancing act for boys with no direction. Seems like a lot of young boys especially boys who don’t have fathers, don’t always have direction especially from society.
And then I’ve seen many men say, they feel they can’t even be vulnerable despite women saying men should open up and not always have to be macho. But I’ve seen men say women say that, but women they’ve been in relationships lose respect or attraction or worse use it against the man when he shares his problems. Its true that are probably with the wrong women, but goes to show that despite thinking something like vulnerability is good ideally, it might be culture internalizing for women, but they may say something but feel a different way when it comes to love and attraction when men open up
Hi Bob, sorry I haven’t gotten back to you in a while. I have been traveling.
I agree that it would be a good idea to not just condemn toxic masculinity, but also talk about the good points masculinity can hold, for everyone. And I agree that every time you do something for boys you don’t necessarily have to think well. What are we doing for girls? Just like when we do some thing for girls we don’t automatically have to think well. What are we doing for boys? Like boys, have a particular problem with school in general, wow girls have more of a problem with STEM in particular. So deal with the problems that they have without having to go OK let’s steal with the other gender on this same thing where they already have an advantage.
I guess men can feel torn between showing their vulnerability, and not. On the one hand that’s a tough one, but I also feel like if a woman has a problem with it she’s not the best partner. But as you say the reality is she’s probably internalized it. Because both women and men need support. We should support one another. And I know a lot of women who appreciate men showing vulnerability to. But still, not all do, leaving it a conundrum.
I actually found it now, yeah it’s weird, I’m not subscribed to washington post, but some reason I could see the article from my phone. But if I tried to see the article from my laptop, it had a paywall. Idk how or why my phone got through the pay wall despite not being subscribed. But I’ll copy and paste from my phone some parts and show excerpts from it. It’s a long article but interesting. So it’s tough to narrow certain parts that are good because they are many.
Oh well, I’ll see what I can do. It’s not unique in the sense you’ve seen and I’ve sent stuff before regarding men and society. But this one is different because it talks about similar stuff before but specifies role models and like the political party aspect of reaching out to young men or not reaching out. What I liked about it, is that even tho washington post is known to be a liberal or politically left journalist site imo. The writer first off is a woman, but she was fairly unbiased. She talked about the problems of conservative influence with youn men, but the democratic party not really doing much to help men either. So leaving many young men lost looking for identify and direction, when both parties aren’t either given men healthy advice like conservatives, but others like democratic party that’s about inclusion often leaving men for themselves. Not only is the writer a woman but I saw a clip of her speaking in an interview and she’s a woman of color too, she;s a black woman.
So it kind of helps because it helps avoid maybe a male bias that one might think if it’s male writer, and but someone’s observation who is the opposite sex and she’s not conservative so it;s not some blind bias. Makes me wonder since she pointed out both sides if she might be more politically toward the middle or independent. Or atleast not far left. I think society can gain insight or use more perspective from people more in the middle or maybe a little to the left or right, but not far right or far left. It’s hard to reason or have a healthy discussion when ppl are so tribalistc of their “side” or the overt favoritism of politicians or policies of their party.
Seems healthy to be able to play devil’s advocate sometimes
Is this the link https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/07/10/christine-emba-masculinity-new-model/
“Men are lost. Here’s a map out of the wilderness.”
A few excerpts:
“And the first question this kid asked me is just … ‘What the heck does good masculinity look like?’”
“And I’ll be honest with you: I did not have an answer for that.”
…
Worrying about the state of our men is an American tradition. But today’s problems are real and well documented. Deindustrialization, automation, free trade and peacetime have shifted the labor market dramatically, and not in men’s favor — the need for physical labor has declined, while soft skills and academic credentials are increasingly rewarded. Growing numbers of working-age men have detached from the labor market, with the biggest drop in employment among men ages 25 to 34. For those in a job, wages have stagnated everywhere except the top.
Meanwhile, women are surging ahead in school and in the workplace, putting a further dent in the “provider” model that has long been ingrained in our conception of masculinity. Men now receive about 74 bachelor’s degrees for every 100 awarded to women, and men account for more than 70 percent of the decline in college enrollment overall. In 2020, nearly half of women reported in a TD Ameritrade survey that they out-earn or make the same amount as their husbands or partners — a huge jump from fewer than 4 percent of women in 1960.
Yep that’s it. That’s a good excerpt you put but there’s more that I thought was good. I’ll see if I can try to copy more sometime. It let’s me get on the website briefly on my phone before paywall blocks me.
I feel like a lot of the early part doesn’t say much, so I got to the first meaty thing and copied and pasted.
I saw the article a while back and filed it away. What you said reminded me of it.
I can take more of a look if you can’t be on the site long enough to get an expert.
Here’s some that I noticed from article I’ll quote.
“Women are still dealing with historical discrimination and centuries of male domination that haven’t been fully accounted for or rectified. Are we really worrying that men feel a little emasculated because their female classmates are doing well?
But millions of men lack access to that kind of power and success — and, downstream, cut loose from a stable identity as patriarchs deserving of respect, they feel demoralized and adrift. The data show it, but so does the general mood: Men find themselves lonely, depressed, anxious and directionless.”
“They have no idea what it means to be a man.”
Past models of masculinity feel unreachable or socially unacceptable; new ones have yet to crystallize. What are men for in the modern world? What do they look like? Where do they fit? These are social questions but also ones with major political ramifications. Whatever self-definition men settle on will have an enormous impact on society. Yet many people, like Reynolds, hesitate to be the one to try to outline a new standard of manliness. Who are they to set the rules?
Only one group seems to have no such doubts about offering men a plan.”
I didn’t want to put too much on one post, so I’m separating the posts
“What’s notable, first, is their empathy. For all Peterson’s barking and, lately, unhinged tweeting, he’s clearly on young men’s side. He validates his followers’ struggles and confusion. He also tells them why they’re still needed and why they matter. No, it’s not just you — school is tailored to girls. Yes, it does suck that a house and a family feel so out of reach! You’re right: It is harder to be a man today.
This is especially compelling in a moment when many young men feel their difficulties are often dismissed out of hand as whining from a patriarchy that they don’t feel part of. For young men in particular, the assumption of a world built to serve their sex doesn’t align with their lived experience, where girls out-achieve them from pre-K to post-graduate studies and “men are trash” is an acceptable joke.”
“Much of the content in the online men’s space is misogyny masquerading as being simply pro-male, advocating a return to a strict hierarchy in which a particular kind of man deserves to rule over everyone else. Decent advice becomes an on-ramp to darker viewpoints: You can get from Tate urging his followers to work hard to his announcing that women are property within seconds.
Meanwhile, politicians such as Hawley are eager to ascribe men’s increasing dysfunction to malice on the part of women, progressives and “elites,” instead of the true cause: major social, economic and cultural changes that in some cases (North American Free Trade Agreement, anyone?) began with conservatives and in others (the Equal Pay Act) were long-overdue moves toward justice. And for all the overheated rhetoric deployed to engage men’s sympathies, what’s mainly on offer is the impossible suggestion that they reenact the lives their grandfathers led, followed by encouragement to blame society when that inevitably fails.”
A baby-faced, 19-year-old University of Florida freshman with short, white-blond hair, Bray was wearing a hoodie despite the heat. (He grew up in Sarasota, so he was used to it.) He had agreed to talk to me about how he saw uncertainties about masculinity playing out on his campus.
First, he laid out his liberal, Gen Z bona fides — he’s in a fraternity, but many of his close friends are LGBTQ+. He feels that old versions of masculinity might be dissolving for the better. “There’s a lot more of an effort now to broaden the idea of what masculinity really can be,” he said, “and how there can be strength in doing some things that ordinarily would be considered feminine — like talking about your feelings or crying in front of others.”
But then he got candid. He doesn’t really identify with the manosphere, he told me, but can understand why others might. “I feel like there’s a lot of room to be proudly feminine, but there’s not, in my opinion, the same room to be proudly masculine.”
Sorry there was just a bunch of good stuff after going further down. The last post here I feel had the most interesting part or stuck out to me more which I wanted to bring this article up to you.
“Men were constantly told to be “better” and less “toxic,” he said, but what that “better” might look like seemed hard to pin down. “You pretty much have to figure it out yourself. But yet society still has the expectation that, you know, you have to be a certain way.”
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Then he turned wistful. “I don’t feel like men in general have the same types of role models that women do, even in their own personal lives. … Just because you’re in the majority doesn’t mean you don’t need support.”
Technically, men are slightly in the minority in the United States. But apart from that, Bray had a point — and what he said explained a lot about why the left and the mainstream are losing men.”
That last line stuck out to me.
“Conservatives raged. But progressives mainly shrugged. That’s because the mid-2010s were the high-water mark of anti-male sentiment in progressive spaces. As the #MeToo movement rose, with its tales of horrendous male behavior and ensuing corporate coverups, “ban men” became a rallying cry. The word “masculinity” seemed to rarely appear without the descriptor “toxic” accompanying it, blamed for everything from rape culture to climate change.
Even today, some progressives react touchily to any efforts to help men as a group.”
“In 2014, President Barack Obama announced the My Brother’s Keeper initiative, a $200 million program meant to improve the lives of at-risk boys and men of color. The pushback came immediately: More than 1,000 women signed an open letter criticizing the program for not including girls. More recently, when news circulated in 2022 that President Biden’s $1.2 trillion infrastructure act would likely create thousands of jobs for working-class men, MSNBC pundit Joy Reid dismissively called it a “White guy employment act.”
One Democratic strategist told me about how specific references to men in political speeches are often stripped out for fear of offense or to signal broader “inclusivity.” A father staying up late worrying about losing his job, for instance, used as an illustrative example in a speech about health care, is turned into a nonspecific “parent.”
The strategist described his party as having almost an allergy to admitting that some men might, in fact, be struggling in a unique way and could benefit from their own tailored attention and aid.”
As soon as you start articulating virtues, advantages, good things about being male … then you’ve just dialed up the risk factor of the conversation,” he said. “But I’m also acutely aware that the risk of not doing it is much greater. Because without it, there’s a vacuum. And along comes Andrew Tate to make Jordan Peterson look like a cuddly old uncle.”
His recipe for masculine success echoed Galloway’s: proactiveness, agency, risk-taking and courage, but with a pro-social cast.
This tracked with my intuitions about what “good masculinity” might look like — the sort that I actually admire, the sort that women I know find attractive but often can’t seem to find at all. It also aligns with what the many young men I spoke with would describe as aspirational, once they finally felt safe enough to admit they did in fact carry an ideal of manhood with its own particular features.
Physical strength came up frequently, as did a desire for personal mastery. They cited adventurousness, leadership, problem-solving, dignity and sexual drive. None of these are negative traits, but many men I spoke with felt that these archetypes were unfairly stigmatized: Men were too assertive, too boisterous, too horny.
But, in fact, most of these features are scaffolded by biology — all are associated with testosterone, the male sex hormone. It’s not an excuse for “boys will be boys”-style bad behavior, but, realistically, these traits would be better acknowledged and harnessed for pro-social aims than stifled or downplayed. Ignoring obvious truths about human nature, even general ones, fosters the idea that progressives are out of touch with reality.
There’s more from there, but I found these parts interesting, you can check beyond this part in the article if you want, but it’s a long article so I had to stop. I could just keep going
Hi Bob, I hope you had a nice July 4th. I must admit I was hoping it wouldn’t be the last one in which we still have democracy. So I tried to enjoy it, and in moments of forgetfulness I did, but it was a bit stressful. But I took a long four-day weekend, so sorry for the delay.
I’ll answer all three of your comments here:
I agree with that it’s not a simple dichotomy of men as oppressor and women as oppressed — although women do face more more structural and psychological barriers to what western society calls “success,” which helps explain why we haven’t had a woman US president yet, and why there are far more male CEOs. But it’s more like a pyramid with a few powerful players at the top — more men than women, but some women too, and increasingly more people as you go down below, of both genders.
But men also face structural and psychological barriers — and often of a damaging sort that actually stem from patriarchy. For instance, men are more likely to commit suicide BECAUSE males-at-large are favored, creating higher expectations for them. But not all men can get to the top of a heirarchal pyramid. So a lot of men are left feeling bad about themselves. Most women can’t get to the top of the pyramid either, but if women just raise children they are thought to have been perfectly successful in their lives.
Here’s another way men are hurt by patriarchy: while women are free to express every emotion, including those that are thought of as “weak,” like sadness and fear, men are expected to suppress those emotions and do “emotion work” to turn them into a “strong” emotion like anger. So men can spend a lot of time feeling angry, which isn’t pleasant, while failing to get to the root of the problem. And making a lot of people miserable around them, which adds to their own misery. Because men aren’t supposed to be weak they even avoid going to therapists, and even medical doctors, compared with women.
Men are more likely to feel lonely, and again, you can point to patriarchy. Because women are considered the nurturers they are given toys like baby dolls and Barbie dolls and tea sets which help them to develop social skills. Boys are under constant pressure to compete with football, baseball, basketball, hotwheels, GI Joe, etc. Which is good for them in some ways (healthy bodies, teamwork, a can-do attitude). But that’s a lot of competition to constantly be undergoing. And especially difficult if you aren’t good at it.
I think a lot of the identity crises men are facing comes from a restructuring work that benefits the top. Because CEOs make so much more money if they replace workers with technology, move jobs overseas, or turn work into part time or gig work instead of good paying jobs with benefits, men increasingly aren’t able to find good-paying jobs. And then the powers that benefit from this blame other people so that they won’t be blamed. So women and people of color get blamed. And immigrants, even though they take the lowest-paid jobs that no one else will do. So I think this restructuring of work goes a long way toward explaining male depression and directionlessness.
As artificial intelligence increasingly take jobs, I think feeling depressed and directionless will become more widespread.
Jobs that have historically been associated with men have often been more affected by this job restructuring, so it makes sense that attempts to rectify the problem would help men more. But that’s no reason to complain about creating those types of jobs – which women can do too! So I agree with you on that. And I think that it should be fine to talk about fathers and mothers, and not only parents. That sort of language makes women invisible too.
I think both the left and the right have crazies who are too extreme.
Interestingly, the right tends to favor a domination society, in terms of both its aims and means. But while the Left’s goal is a partnership society of equality, too many on the Left try to achieve their partnership goal via a domination/bullying means — maybe because we live in a domination culture of patriarchy so that a dominatin mentality sinks into everyone. But you can’t achieve a partnership goal by using a bullying domination means.
Meanwhile, it’s interesting that education was never actually tailored to girls, yet benefits them over boys. For most of our patriarchal history, girls simply weren’t allowed to get an education, so we never realized until more recently that the way schools are tailored suits girls better. One of the few differences you find in infants is that boys move around more. And when they’re older it’s harder for boys to sit still in school. Now that both boys and girls go to school you can see how school structure ends up favoring girls. But there’s certainly no reason not to have more recess so boys can get the jiggles out. And incorporate more hands-on learning to also accommodate those jiggles.
What do you think of this quote you included:
“Much of the content in online men’s spaces is misogyny masquerading as being pro-male, advocating the return to a strict hierarchy, in which a particular kind of man deserves to rule over everyone else.”
To me, that sort of content sounds like a way to justify a hierarchy that advantages men who are already powerful, at the top, to everyone else’s detriment. Sounds like the type of message a lot of powerful men would be happy to fund.
And then teaching men that women are their property might make all the underdog men feels that they are superior to at least SOMEONE. But I don’t know how men would have happy relationships with discontent, angry women. Women under the Taliban have high rates of suicide, for instance. So you would have a shortage of women, too.
I certainly don’t think that sexist jokes and comments should be directed at either men or women. I can see why the #metoo movement might make men feel like they are under attack, even though it’s a minority of men who behave that way. The #metoo point should probably be accompanied by an acknowledgment that it’s a minority of men. And, violence against women is rooted in patriarchy. Non-patriarchal cultures like the Iroquois had virtually no violence against women. Patriarchies do because part of the way you create a sense of male superiority is by putting women down, and one way of doing that is committing violence against them. But, of course, men and patriarchy are two different things. Some women and men have a patriarchal mindset while other men and women have a partnership mindset.
I’m curious about this quote: “I feel like there’s a lot of room to be proudly feminine, but not to be proudly masculine.” What does that mean? What do you think it means to be proudly feminine? Why can’t a man be proudly masculine?
The reason why the word masculinity tends to have “toxic” attached to it is because the toxic parts of masculinity are hurtful, so the attention goes there in an attempt to bring attention and rid ourselves of it. What’s considered mascline v fem varies from culture to culture, but here, anger and violence are signified “masculine,” and also hurt everyone involved. We probably need to look more at the positive side of masculinity, too.
And of course, all humans have both masculine and feminine within them, but men are encouraged to suppress their feminine side (expressing emotions, being nurturing, being empathetic and gentle), while until recently women were discouraged from expressing masculine traits, like leadership, assertiveness and independence. But all humans need both sides of themselves to be healthy and to create a healthy world.
Here are my thoughts on this (paraphrased) quote, “men are told to be better and less toxic. What does that look like?”
To me:
Less toxic: Less anger and the things anger leads to. So end domestic battery and child abuse, end sexual assault. Stop putting women down in an attempt to raise men up.
Men being better: Strong, supportive, confident, can-do, courageous, personally empowered. So helping others and not letting others put you down, for instance.
I do think that all this would be good advice for women too. So I disagree with the author that masculine traits are biologically based, since I know so many women who are strong, supportive, confident, can-do, courageous, and personally empowered.
I don’t think that receiving respect needs to be based on an identity as a patriarch. Women also deserve respect, and they are never going to get it from being respected as patriarchs. What makes men respect women? What makes women feel like men need them? I think the same things that would be true of men feeling needed and respected. Love and support, emotional or otherwise. The fact of our humanity. And perhaps for being interesting and growing humans — people who helps others, and helps other to grow, too.
So those are my thoughts. What are yours?
Hey I happened to come across this article I saw on my phone today. I thought it was interesting so I’m sending like for you to read if you want.
My computer wouldn’t let me access it. Maybe you can give me a summary.
Hope all is well.
crap I don’t see the link. I thought I sent it to you, now I can’t open the link to try to copy and paste. Hmm, now I don’t know how I’ll find it. It was an interesting read. If I do. I’ll try to copy and paste parts for you
No problem. Since you liked it so much just tell me the main point or points.
“I finally found some time to catch Night Agent. Yes, it has strong women characters in important roles, which is really good to see! And it is very good at keeping you wondering and capturing your attention. Good first episode. Hopefully it won’t take such a long time for me to get to the second episode.”
I’m glad you liked the first episode. Yeah even with good shows, I’ll often scan my phone time to time or laptop but this show captured my attention the whole time. The questions and suspense only cranks up more each episode going forward. I don’t think you saw the president yet, like I said the president of the united states is a woman on this show. That further brings the point of strong women in important roles. She won’t be on the show a ton, but she’s involved in important parts of the series. Idk if you caught on or not. You obviously saw the ending of the first episode where the assassins killed the woman at her home. Before that happened, I just had a feel they were the people who showed up and broke into’s Rose’s aunt and uncles house and killed them.
The reason I had this feeling, it was subtle but during fighting scene. Even tho they had masks on and all black. I thought I heard sounds when the aunt and assassin were fighting that the groans or grunts from the fighting sounded like a woman’s voice from the assassin. The build or something made me think the one assassin was a woman too. So when I saw this suspicious looking couple come up to the house at the end of the episode. I remembered thinking “hmm, I wondered if they are the assassins that killed Rose’s aunt and uncle earlier” for the very fact it was a man and woman together there.
You see a blend too, Rose is the co protagonist along with Peter, Dianne Farr is chief of staff so very high position, So not just female heros in big roles or power position like Dianne Farr, but also balanced with good women, one of the assassins is a big time enemy in a big role as a woman on the evil part too. So not only are the women playing big roles, but they play various sides of the good and bad and power or character spectrum. And not only this, but some ethnic and racial diversity too. The female president is a white woman and I think the assassin is white, though I’m not sure her ethnicity, but Dianne Farr is an asian woman and Rose is of Tongan and Scottish descent from what I read, so she’s half polynesian. I thought she looked it or made me wonder. It’s good for diversity but some shows it feels forced or like a token quota with not having the best actors chosen or for the roles. But they had good actors who happened to be diverse in race or ethnicity at the same time for the women too.
I’ve been traveling and haven’t seen this show past the first episode. I’m glad to hear that the President is a woman. It sounds like there are a lot of women and ethnic diversity in strong and pivotal roles on the show, which is great! The Tongan/Scottish ancestry is interesting because people who are racially ambiguous are often cast (I think women, especially, and especially in advertising), so that people of all races can more easily identify with them. And I didn’t catch that the people who killed the woman at the end of episode 1 also killed Rose’s aunt and uncle. Thanks for cluing me in. You have a good ear!
Oh my bad, I thought you figured it was the same ppl who killed roses aunt and uncle that killed the woman at the end of the episode. It had to cross your mind tho or be suspicious it might’ve been them right?
I’m gonna shut up after this, I don’t need to spoil any more accidentally ha. Yeah if you were to rewatch the fight scene with roses aunt and uncle, you might catch the sounds. It was subtle tho, but I swore I heard a female sounding groan or grunt from the fighting from one of the masked assassins. And it’s dark and the clothes covered up their builds, but one assassin seemed more like smaller slender framed if that makes sense compared to the bigger framed assassin. The the slender framed assassin looked shorter too than bigger assassin and seemed more the body frame and height like the aunt which made me think the assassin the aunt was fighting was a woman.
Yes there are tall women, taller than men. There are some muscular women too. But guys on average are taller. I’ve also noticed on average, even for skinny framed men, the shoulders are still like broader or just sloped differently than women. Granted both had masks and dark clothes and dark lighting so purpose was to Make it tough for viewers to make out what the assassins looked like. But that’s why I felt one asssasin was female. And then the ending scene I was able to put 2+2 together. And was like they have to be assassins who killed roses aunt and uncle.
Yeah whenever you catch next episode, leave a recap of your thoughts on that episode too if you want
Ugh! I’ve been waiting to write back until I’ve seen the next episode, and I’m realizing that when I watch TV I am also multitasking, and that it’s a lot easier to multitask with the news in the background than a program that I actually need to focus on. (And I am a news junkie.) I am still hoping to sit down and view the show in the near future. But figured I should get back to you.
I hope you are doing well! And enjoying the summer.
This is again a well researched post and has hit the nail on the head.. Many men and women seem to seek validation and for men, validation from the opposite gender seems to act as an “ego boost”.. I believe women are now breaking free of this game of validation and seeking the path of happiness.. My two cents.. Great article once again..
(PS: Thank you for your visit.. )
Thanks. I tried replying on your blog, but it wouldn’t accept it. Not sure why. I’ll try again.
Oh, that’s sad.. Let me take the issue up with WP, but I am glad you took the time to revisit and go through the posts.. Much appreciated.. 🙂
You can reply with your comments over here too, till the time the issue is resolved..
OK, thank you. I haven’t been too active in blogging lately. Hoping to get back to it sometime in the near future.
“Now, I’m wondering if my TV is connected to Netflix but not my iPad. Because I can’t find it on my iPad. I hate to be all gender stereotypical, but I suck at technology. I’ll have to try to figure this out.“
I think it’s a generation thing. Id often show my parents how to do things regarding smart tvs, phones apps etc. i thought I was good at this stuff, yet my 10 year old niece seems to know more with technology and teaching me like I would my parents ha. But yeah your iPad should be set up with Netflix if your tv is. It’s based on your account and Wi-Fi, ip address. If you don’t watch Netflix on a particular device it kicks you off some reason even you are signed up with Netflix still. I think it’s a matter of signing up the account using your email and password you have for Netflix that is saved and remembered on your tv.
Once it recognizes your iPad as another device from your household , you should be good hopefully. There’s no reason you shouldn’t be able to watch Netflix on all your devices at your home tho. Netflix was only blocking or stopping password sharing from ppl of differing households which it can tell from the different ip address from the Wi-Fi’s. Hope you can figure it out tho.
Thanks for your thoughts on what might be wrong. I found I can access Netflix and the TV show now. I was hoping to wait until I’d actually seen it to respond to you, but I haven’t had time to watch anything in the last few days. I’ll let you know when I seen the show. 🙂
Ok cool. Hope you like the show after all this. Glad you figured things out and you’re welcome. Yeah it’s not a big deal, no rush to watch it. Yeah if you want, you can write back and chime in your thoughts and questions on the first episode when you see it.
I finally found some time to catch Night Agent. Yes, it has strong women characters in important roles, which is really good to see! And it is very good at keeping you wondering and capturing your attention. Good first episode. Hopefully it won’t take such a long time for me to get to the second episode.
I just checked and I don’t think I have Netflix at the moment and will have to subscribe. I put the show on my “to watch” list. (I was looking for it and couldn’t find it on my list“
Did you unsubscribe Netflix? If not, I’m wondering if it kicked you off for a moment in their effort to clear house. It’s annoying as I’m the main account, I know they’ve checked ppl sharing passwords. But I randomly couldn’t sign in last week. The dumb Netflix didn’t recognize my device which I’ve been watching Netflix on my tv in my room for awhile now. I had to change the password and use my phone to scan QR code on my tv to sync things so it Could remember the tv I’m watching from with my account which idk why it forgot in the first place.
But yeah if you get set up with Netflix and start the night agent let me know your thoughts for first episode. Hope you had a nice 4th too
I had a nice fourth. I hope you had a good one.
I’ve been trying to find it on my iPad and I haven’t been able to. My iPad bothers me less than regular TV so I thought I’d try that. Can’t find it there. I figured I could start it sooner than waiting until I was done with Ted Lasso. Looks like I’ll try to finish Ted Lasso and then see if I can find it on a regular TV.
It’s this right: night agent on Netflix?
You’re able to watch or see shows on Netflix tho on your iPad right now right? If you are, then you’re still subscribed to Netflix. I’m not sure why it got lost or didn’t save it if it was on your watch list. But you could just go to search part on Netflix and type the night agent and it should show up then you can watch it. I guess it depends if you’re able to even sign in on Netflix in first place to watch any shows on it right now.
Now, I’m wondering if my TV is connected to Netflix but not my iPad. Because I can’t find it on my iPad. I hate to be all gender stereotypical, but I suck at technology. I’ll have to try to figure this out.
I just saw something on youtube how actresses jenny ortega who played Wednesday on the netflix series Wednesday and Elle Fanning had an interview. They talked about many things, but they brought up briefly kind of what I was talking about with how holly wood often writes strong female characters. This was why I liked the night agent like I said with how Rose was written and played out. But they talked about, it;s like a weird idea that since male characters can be written overly strong, which gets boring too.
They basically write female characters like they are all ronda rousey. I’ve watched some movies where a woman is a master fighter and they can be good, but sometimes trying too hard to show “women are equal to men” if that makes sense. Like a competition. Elle Fanning talks about her character based on the ruler katherine but it was a comedy spin off but things she learned of the progressiveness but also complicated part of her. And she takes that to talk about women characters written by hollywood and how it’s annoying how so many female strong leads are written. It’s a long interview, but the part I’m talking about is at about 29:40, so if you just drag there it goes right to it and goes to like 31:30. Here;s the clip https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Q51N0yG3Ow
What I’m talking about is how hollywood writes women in action movies. There’s more balance for like drams or emotional story line ones, but the action female main characrer often is written like she;s ronda rousey even if the woman is thin framed, modelsque like charlize theron, but she can round house kick and flip 200 lb men. I get it when is built or like an athlete, but it seems forced where its done just for the hell of it. I think characters would be better when writers focused on making a complete female character then almost making female characters be like men or compete with men. But the male character was written to not be like invincible either like john wick, but had softness in his character too. It further proved how criticizing toxic masculinity is not criticizing masculinity. He was a gentleman, he was patient with Rose, but he was tough. Despite the softer side of his character, it didn’t make him feminine or less masculine, he still seemed masculine to me. Actually it made him more masculine because tehre was a confidence to him which I feel toxic masculinity is over compensating for something missing. And no surprise many women who watched the show loved Peter’s character and found him sexy. I Guess a lot found their new celebrity crush ha. To be fair, I did take a liking to Rose ha
I agree. I also prefer well, rounded characters or a one-dimensional action figures.
Women and men have different types of physical superiorities. Men’s mostly involves physical strength. Women’s involves an ability to survive, better balance, and flexibility. Less likely to be colorblind. The height issue depends on the sport. Helps men in basketball and helps women in gymnastics. Part of the reason women survive better is because they are smaller and store more fat, which helps them to survive famine and cold. While more calories turn to fat in women and more calories turn to muscle in men, as I said, women survive, better, and men have more physical strength. Maybe that’s mother nature’s way of keeping the race alive by preserving women and having men do the more dangerous work of hunting and warring.
BTW, can you remind me of the name of the show you were talking about that had a good female characters? I would like to check it out but I forgot the name.
It’s called the night agent on Netflix. You said you were finishing up last season of Ted lasso then you’d check this show out. Hopefully you’ll like it as the characters are well rounded. It’s not the most original plot but idc as often a good show to me Is the dialogue, the characters and the storytelling being well set up to capture your attention and create intrigue from things that come up. I found it quite suspenseful I’ll say. There are two main characters along with the rest of the cast who were prominent roles. A man and woman were both co main characters .
The guy was cool because he was well rounded. He has softer qualities with his patience and empathy but it didn’t take away from his badassery. He just was human and not a machine like other action stars like John wick and Jason statham. But it didn’t take away from him being tough, he was tough. And it didn’t take away from his masculinity either. It just showed what conservatives don’t get when ppl have criticized toxic masculinity, they weren’t criticizing masculinity but the hyper toxic macho part that can come which I think is fueled by insecurities. The male character in a way projected confidence because he valued the female leads thoughts or her role with things. That must’ve done something right because it’d funny how many women had a crush on male lead character because of his balance he portrayed. He’s a fairly handsome guy so that adds a touch too. I think you’d like some of the male characters because of this balance for men too. Well obviously not for the male villains but then again they are supposed to have bad qualities.
Interesting what you say about the uproar over toxic masculinity among many on the right. Yes, I actually think men often need more courage to reject the negative side, due to peer pressure.
The TV show sounds like it gets into some complexities and rounded characters. So that sounds good. I just checked and I don’t think I have Netflix at the moment and will have to subscribe. I put the show on my “to watch” list. (I was looking for it and couldn’t find it on my list.)
But yes women characters kicked butt. It was refreshing tho that it was done right tho. Like the actresses in my link said with their criticism of strong female leads in Hollywood. Hollywood often does it too much the other way with strong female leads. There’s a term for that, it’s called trying too hard. A strong female character does NOT have to compete with male characters to make a woman character empowered or strong. She doesn’t need to literally be able to fight off men like she’d Ronda rousey. I can enjoy those movies but it feels over done sometimes. That’s why I like the female characters particularly rose who was the co main character. She was tough, brave, assertive, very smart, but also showed emotion, vulnerability. She wasn’t competing with Peter the main guy. Too many Hollywood movies have strong female lead almost be combative or like her having a chip on her shoulder .
It gets tiresome to watch. That sassy “I’m a girl boss” I can do Anything a man can do Schtick gets tiring when done so much. Like I get it seeing that or from that view seeing how women characters have been marginalized in the past. But you don’t need to compete or be above one group to be equal. Both men and women can uplift each other and compliment each other. Peter and rose complimented each other. I liked rose character a lot. I haven’t had an almost celebrity movie character crush since I was a kid toward Kelly kapowskj on saved by the bell. But I remember jokingly thinking where’s rose in my life ha. Then again it seems like many women felt that way about Peter
It kind of sounds like the problem with many female kick-butt characters is writing them as expressing toxic masculinity, too. It sounds like both the female and male characters are written in a very human way.
Sorry I repeated myself about something’s like Peters character. I wrote a lot and I didn’t re read what I wrote that you responded to. But yeah I like rose tho ha
Thanks 🙂
I’m just sharing this because it came to my mind. It’s the power of music as far as conjuring up thoughts and feelings in people. I used to never like country music, I’m still a bit selective, but I’ve liked more than I have before. I think it’s because it’s more blended now with country being more country rock, country pop. I’ve liked some jason aldean songs, brantley gilbert, some Kane Brown. But because I don’t listen to much country I heard songs from google home that I’ve never heard before and like. Turns out the song is 6 years old ha. I’m still working on things, and while I don’t want a gf yet, this song makes me think of a fun night, taking a gf out dancing or a fun night out. It also makes me think of going out with gf and my buddy and his gf and friends out and playing this song on the juke box and having fun, etc. I like the original but picked a remix because there’s more umph to it with the effects.
I found it interesting and I wonder the reason, I’m not saying every country song has songs about hooking up. But I’ve noticed even in modern times, the country music genre always had a story telling part of it. And it may talk about different things, but I’ve noticed in regards to dating. Country seems to usually be romantic or like about courtship, relationships and like monogamy if that makes sense. It’s about a woman usually that has the man’s heart, or his gf or wife. Yes other genres do as well. But like rap and hip hop have often had stuff about banging women or like hooking up, same for dance music, certain pop music, club music. And like the glam, hair rock like motley crue, van halen, etc remember would be about like casual sex stuff and party. I mean these bands for instance often had strippers in their music videos or the band would be at strip clubs in the music video ha.
This is a very popular song, but of the many country songs that’s like what I was saying. I already said kane brown. You’ve probably heard it but the song What IF by Kane Brown https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fM8V1XOI-14
“What if I was made for you
And you were made for me
What if this is it
What if it’s meant to be
What if I ain’t one of them
Fools just Playin’ some game
What if I just pulled you close
What if I leaned in
And the stars line up
And it’s our last first kiss
What if one of these days baby
I’d go and change your name
What if
I loved all these what ifs away”
I don’t really like country music myself. But the lyrics can be clever and insightful. I didn’t like the Eagles for a long time because they sounded too country to me, but then I got used to them because I had to hear the music to get to Don Henley’s lyrics. Hotel California is a thoughtful song about the golden handcuffs, gilded cage. Questioning materialism, for example.
I find Jon Pardi’s voice, particularly grating, but I like the lyrics to both of the songs you linked to. Except “him changing her name”. Clever, but the feminist in me is less enamored.
This also makes me think of something Bruce Springsteen said about how poetry gets beneath the surface and gets to what is really going on. It gets into the unconscious needs and desires. He said that at one point his life was that of a single guy who got lots of women, but what came up in his writing was all about relationship and family. That made him rethink his life and what he really wanted or needed, or would find satisfying. Makes me wonder if the appeal of the songs for you might be along these lines?
I found the music very catchy tho. Yeah I do want a relationship when ready, I’m still working on things so hope things continue progressing for me. But I hope things go well so I can be ready sooner than later. But I think the mistake ppl make or can’t do is settling because they are lonely or want a relationship or companionship. It can be tough if older and feeling to hurry up and stuff
Yeah, the music was catchy. But that one guy’s voice kind of grated on me.
I can see your point. That makes sense Bob.
“It’s great when television shows can invoke such enthusiasm. I will probably wait till I’m done with Ted Lasso to start a new series, and I’m just starting the third and final season of Ted Lasso.
Hope you are well.”
Thank you, hope you are good as well. So how’s Ted Lasso show? I’ve seen previews, but I haven’t watched it. I don’t have apple tv which I think that show is on. It seems like a comedy based show, is it funny? I know who that actor is, I’ve seen him do many comedy movies and such. How many episodes does that series have? Yeah, no problem I figure you’d want to finish a series you’re watching first, I’m like that also and so are my friends. Leave a message if you want, when you start watching the night agent show whenever that is to let me know what your thoughts were so far. Yeah I liked the men and women actors and characters for the show and depth to them. But yet the women actors kicked butt in imo and a lot to do with the success as well as good writing. The men also kicked butt too but also for the same reason. The main guy was tough, but he had like softer gentleman qualities with his bad ass way. The co main actress was bad ass too. I think you’ll like it tho. It’s a political thriller
Ted Lasso is a comedy with thoughtfulness and a big heart and a crique of toxic masculinity. You may not be surprised that much of my draw to the show is encapsulated in moments like when soccer coach Ted Lasso tells the team to “woman up!” The team corrects him: “You mean, man up!” But Lasso responds, “No, we’ve been trying that quite a while, and look where that got us.”
There are 12 episodes in season 3 of Ted Lasso. And I sometimes miss a week here and there of TV-watching, so I’m thinking roughly 3-4 months? Like I haven’t even started watching season 3 yet.
I saw this article in the New York Times, called, “Ted Lasso, holy fool” and had to send a few excerpts:
The holy fool is a well-known, though controversial, character in Russian Orthodox spirituality. … The holy fool is a person who flouts social conventions to demonstrate allegiance to God. Holy fools dwell in ordinary, secular life, but they approach it with completely different values. Rejecting respectability and embracing humility and love, holy fools are so profoundly out of step with the broader world that they appear to be ridiculous or even insane and often invite ridicule. And yet, they teach the rest of us how to live.
Lasso, an American football coach hired to coach soccer — a sport he knows little about — for the English football club AFC Richmond is often derided by the public and the press. Ted takes it all in stride, angering fans with his apparent lack of concern with winning. Early in the series, Ted tells a reporter named Trent Crimm: “For me, success is not about the wins and losses. It’s about helping these young fellas be the best versions of themselves on and off the field.” It’s a cliché, of course, the kind of thing uttered as a sound bite in high school sports. But Ted seems to really mean it. And the team’s fans find this horrifying, not heartwarming. Crimm calls Ted “irresponsible.”
From a religious perspective, a rejection of the trappings of success, of whatever the mainstream culture values most deeply, can be a prophetic act — one that, as Lasso shows, rarely gets applause. The so-called foolishness of holy fools is tethered to their spiritual insight. They offer a change in perspective. What appears “normal” and “successful” in the world is revealed by the fool to be hollow, vain and pointless. What appears foolish, it turns out, is the true path of flourishing. Above all, a holy fool is an icon for radical humility. And this is where Lasso most clearly embodies this persona.
Lasso is not a perfect man, and he knows it. When his not-exactly-love-interest Sassy rejects him as a “mess,” he embraces it (he calls himself, in a delightfully terrible pun, “a work in prog-mess”). He is not guilt-ridden, sullen or perfectionistic. He’s just Ted. He struggles with panic attacks and normalizes our nearly universal need for therapy, so much so that President Biden hosted the cast of the show at the White House last month to promote mental health awareness.
I know you don’t watch much stuff because of your eyes. I don’t know if you have netflix or not. But there’s this show that I found really good. A thriller, just good acting, characters and like just written well imo with the plot. Just different twists and stuff. I liked it for that reason, and it wasn’t because of the diversity, but after thinking about it. The diversity wasn’t necessary to make it good, but they utilized the characters in their roles really well and it wasn’t “I’m putting a woman here just because, but they were great in their role and perfect for the power playing high position characters. It’s series about a central intelligence guy that gets caught up in a terrorist attack on a subway that he thwarts.
The clues he sees that night, they tie to things later on, but not right away. A ton happens and going back in time and years forward that tells the story of a big thing that happened related to the white house. But they did it right. Hollywood will often do what I call affirmative action sometimes whether it’s black actors where it feels just put in a roles to fit a quota and maybe women in action roles even if they weren’t really the best actors or best suited. All of the actors were great, but the women actors did really well imo. And the cool thing was a lot of the women actors played high positions in the show. A woman was president of the united states in this show, Another one a head position in central intelligence, another a co star along with main guy but she held her own and just as much involved with taking on the challenges in the show as the male star hero. There’s more too, but I don’t want to spoil the show by talking about the other characters as some you see unfold as you got through the episodes.
One episode is 50 minutes, maybe check one episode here or there. There are 10 episodes total for the series. This is just the first season as it just debut on netflix in march. The show is called The night agent. All I know is I haven;t seen a thriller where I’m hooked or trying to find out what’s next or to unfold but so invested in the characters. I haven’t watched one so suspenseful in a while that I was on the edge of my seat. Apparently many have found it really good too as it’s very popular with ppl I know and it’s like top 10 shows or moved to 9 for top 10 of all time and it’s only been a month in since it’s debut.
I only watch one hour of television a week, but maybe I’ll have to check it out.
Got ya. An episode is 56 minutes. Ten episodes. Maybe 1 a week. It’s no 6 now on Netflix as far as most watched series all Time for Netflix in English language . Shows what a big draw it was. I never expected to like it as much as I did
Thanks. I’ll have to check it out. I’m finishing up Ted Lasso right now.
Yeah, I’d say catch the first episode and see how you feel. If it draws you in, it’s something to check out. I found it interesting first episode. Some shows take a few episodes to get going. It gets better of course and move involved each episode, but the first one had a lot going on. I want to say this tho, what you see, don’t assume the show is based on how it starts. There’s so much more, but there’s a reason for what you saw. The plot is not like super original, but it doesn’t matter because there’s so much that happens which gets you invested and layers. My opinion is even if a show doesnt have an amazingly original plot, I don’t care as long as the show has good characters, stories and development for it.
There’s a lot to figure out and get involved with, without being overly complicated. I don’t like when a show is overly complicated. I’m pretty smart so I can figure out complicated stories, but I don’t like where it’s like overthining and I’m trying to enjoy a show, but not get confused or lost in all the shuffling. This has a nice balance imo. I liked the show because it was simply good imo, but it was a cool bonus after thinking about it how like the dialogue between male main character and female character was like “real”. I felt and ppl comment how it felt natural and it wasn’t over done or dramatic the convo. The details too between the characters and everyone was very human in such. I noticed reviews for show to where other women stated how an organic way the writers did a great job and the women characters were so refreshingly real and tough and emotional which is so rare in such kind of shows or in general. And It’s true. Other shows will have strong female characters but almost like lopsided the other way where the woman is “I’m woman hear me roar, doing a triple axle round house kick, flipping guys left and right”That’s fine but it feels forced in a lot of hollywood shows. So it feels like it’s one or the other with female characters, either very emotional in some or where stoic and like stereotype male characters.
The women were well balanced like actual ppl are. Strong, but vulnerable, tough, but flawed and you saw the male characters well rounded too. I have to look at the production crew and see if the writers were women as, I hate to stereotype, but it does seem like women pay more attention better then men to little details that mean a lot whether dialogue or like little social cues or mannerisms and how the other character picks up on it. There’s more I could say, but I don’t want to spoil things as there are characters that show up later on that would be seen that I don’t want to let on
Sorry about my recent comment talking more about the show. I didn’t see your recent comment back to me until I already sent my comment. Btw, my instincts about women writers was right. The main writer Is a guy but they write more of the main overview part. But executive story editor is a woman and staff writer was a woman too. They both wrote for all 10 episodes too and I believe this part was subtle expressions and dialogue or character depth stuff for staff writer and editor checks off on the detail. There were male writers too but the few only wrote for an episode or two. The main writers were split tho with two men and two women as I said.
I do believe you would have made a good sociologist, between your inquiring mind and notice of social patterns.
Interesting that the show is written with a pretty good balance of writers, gender-wise. Sounds like this may contribute to the “women characters … so refreshingly real and tough and emotional,” plus the dialogue sounding so real. Women and men are socialized differently, with women being allowed to be more emotional. Yet during a more feminist time, also socialized to be strong. And it sounds like both are coming through in this show.
It’s great when television shows can invoke such enthusiasm. I will probably wait till I’m done with Ted Lasso to start a new series, and I’m just starting the third and final season of Ted Lasso.
Hope you are well.
Well it was on twitter, well I don’t know if that’s gonna happen but be more symbolic for women because of the anger. Going full Lysistrata and a sex strike apparently. Obviously women can do what they want and have the right to be upset. I just think it won’t work and worse it almost reward the asshole conservatives because it’s not punishing the gop or men taking these rights away. The sex strike isn’t coming from conservative women or women these men are with. So the conservative men will just be laughing at this and seeing liberal men suffer sexually and probably gloat over it. And these jerks actually like this, they blame women’s sexuality and women keeping their legs shut. With conservative, puritan views, such ppl view sex almost to be just for couples and almost solely for procreation. It’s weird, it’s like 1800s repressed shit. I”m pretty sure even married couples have sex not just to make babies but for intimacy otherwise there’d be 20 kids.
That’s why I think things would blow up on the supreme court tried to take away contraceptives that would effect even republican couples sex lives. And while there is racism in america, I believe a ban on interracial marriage would cause riots. That’s damn jim crow bull shit. I also think this sex strike wouldn’t help because I don’t believe most women will just stop dating even if they do less hookups. So if there’s still dating, there’s the chance they will have men now. If men feel the only way for sex now is through a relationship will just get in multiple ones to increase their chance of sex with different women and then break up or other woman. And whatever there is less off from hook ups will be more cheating probably in relationships. Good or bad, if men aren’t getting sex or not happy with amount they are having prior to a relationship, it will probably be hard for them to committ and like I said look elsewhere or break it off to have more. Men will just be more creative in finding a way around it. It’s good to be smarter about casual sex and more away but I don’t believe this will prevent the issue unless most go abstinent and not even date anyone for a whole year or something. I don’t believe that would even make many women happy. Like I said, conservative me who have wives or gfs won’t be suffering and it would just actually make them happy. I think more protesting and makijng sure to vote in mid terms and maybe have petitions for judges to be impeached or so may be more productive.
This damn year has been a damn nightmare. I feel for women, I feel for ukranian ppl, I feel for all this shit ppl are going through. This year has not been good for my mental health either. Every time I feel hopeful things shut back. My buddy wonders why I stay up late or don’t always get up early. It’s me being restless thinking about if things will go as I hope the regrets which creates the insomnia
Well, if women are going to be forced to endure a pregnancy you can see why they would want to stop having sex. And it is easier for women because they have such high rates of sexual dysfunction, lack of sexual enjoyment. Largely because of the shame. And also because of objectification that makes them hyper aware of their bodies and critical. Or wondering if they are being sexy enough. Who can focus on pleasure when you’re worried about how you look or how you are acting? In a way I don’t see that there’s a lot of choice, really. I’m wondering what you would recommend they do to ensure that they don’t get pregnant and have to be forced to carry a pregnancy. Or risk their lives trying to terminate one.
On another matter, I hope you have a nice Fourth of July weekend. A little harder for me to celebrate the last few years because of threats to our democracy from the judiciary, executive and legislative branches of our government. I’ll try to block that from my brain for the next few days. At least it should be Covid free for both of us.
They can do what they want. I wonder if there’s a big difference of opinion between red states and blue states tho. I’m from ny and luckily the governor here not only is for abortion rights, but she’s setting up things to protect. I think she has a good shot, not only because nyc is quite liberal, but this federal ruling just pissed off not just liberals but independents, republicans etc. I wasn’t saying they shouldn’t but I saw women comment and others how this is exactly what conservatives want. I don’t know what’s going to happen with couples if women cut off sex with their bfs even tho usually liberal women I think date liberal men so these men are supportive. Meanwhile this move doesn’t even effect conservative men who are the one’s that you want to take notice. Looks like courts are fighting things in the red states, hopefully it can fight out these damn trigger laws. And the ppl fight this. It would be hard to do, but I think a work strike would speak louder. Yes it’s a risk with money. It would be nice of employers supported it. So many women are part of the work force. Think of the impact it would make on the city, state of these red states or economy if one day thousands of women didn’t go to work so essential businesses or shops had to shut down. Maybe government or federal company that happens. Or all across US. There would have to be a major coordination obviously and all do it. Yeah it’s not realistic, but just something I thought about. That would send a big ass message to the corrupt conservatives.
I would think that a sex strike would be more likely in the states that are actually affected. Since big-money plays such a role in government I think that getting businesses to speak out could be helpful. There are some powerful big money interests that want an authoritarian government. They don’t trust democracy because they fear that the people will vote to take their money away, so they are actively trying to end our democracy. And they likely support ending Rovy way because one of the first things authoritarian systems do is start controlling women’s reproductive lives. Start by controlling women then move onto controlling everyone else. You may have heard certain Republicans talk about how we don’t have a democracy we are a republic. Sen. Mike Lee in Utah and Liz Cheney’s number one primary opponent have both said this. That comes from those moneyed interests who want to end democracy.
Hopefully the people will figure out that they need to stop electing these crazies, and realize that Republicans have no secret plan to fight global inflation that has arisen due to changes in spending patterns as people shift to buying products over services, and companies/supply chains haven’t yet caught up with a new demand pattern, so way more demand than supply. And of course the Ukrainian war is raising oil prices (we need to move quickly to renewables, solar, wind, geothermal, maybe nuclear). Those are the main two culprits.
Thanks you too. I think my 4th will be good, I have so much anxiety from all angles. Threats on democracy but also my own life. idk
Yeah, I am also prone to anxiety. So I do volunteer work that has me working with members of Congress so I don’t feel so helpless. In my personal life just trying to think through how to make things better and work toward it, like you do. And every morning I do an ode to joy, so that I never lose touch with joy.
I feel like you might beat yourself up a bit because you let opportunities pass. But that’s part of living, growing and learning, right? And I think part of it is forgiving yourself and looking to the past for lessons and to the future for opportunity.”
Yeah I hope so. But it;s hard to not feel depressed sometimes because of how much time I wasted. This is why social media can be bad though. I feel down, because I’m in my late 30s now and think of where I’d be in life now like others had I done the things I wished I did. I know ppl paint pictures that might not be true. Like many ppl my age are married or have kids and neither for me. And some I know on facebook I went to school with, these guys sowed their oats and well are married and settled. None of that feels great to me even though I’d want it too. They have these family pictures of their low key moments and it’s easy to like that because the guys got to want that stage of their life because they did stuff in the previous stage. I feel like I skipped the important stage before settling and I’m very unhappy about it and I just can’t move past it. It’s also why I desire on doing things socially which I have from friends with work and looking forward to that and with kickball crew. But it sucks I feel a lot of stress to kick things in gear fast as window is closing and this is why pandemic caused so much anxiety becase I lost two years of crucial time.
If I dated, partied, had sex the past 2 years, I’d god damn be ready to be in a serious relationship now, but I’m not. If I want kids,well I’d end up being an old father, just great. My friends happen to be tho so whatever. And that’s assuming I meet someone great within the year too. But yet I don’t want too, my pride and lust is too strong that will override whatever deeper feelings I have for meaningful stuff. I need excitiment, that just feels missing and this just sucks. My friend and family tell me, which is true to stop putting a time line on things and that is true as we don’t have control of that. I have to put my best effort and let it be and keep trying. Focusing too much will just cause anxiety and to back fire. I realize that’s not new though, I believe a lot of ppl fall in the trap of putting a ‘timeline ” on their life. I want to be here at this age, or accomplish this and this by this month or summer or year etc. But then creates more disappointment when you don’t get there even if you were making progress but just at a slower rate. You can lose focus of your small increments of progress when you get ahead of yourself because of timelines you place on yourself. Well one good thing is,I don’t know if it really counts as I didn’t exactly approach. But got a number from somebody when out, when meeting a friend at work at a bar with music. The woman he was with and her friend, but I took the initiative getting her attention and talking and went well. I guess I have to try to focus on the baby steps
Social media seems to get people depressed. Probably because they always show the best selves. And it’s interesting that pictures can look more exciting than the reality. I’ve noticed this lately because living in California I’m worried about fires destroying my photo albums so I’m digitalizing them. And when I look at old pics it looks like I had way more fun then I remembered having. I saved pictures of my best self. And even then, during the time of the pictures, I don’t remember having as much fun as it makes it seem I had. So there’s a possibility that people are getting depressed over something that’s more fantasy than reality.
Yeah it sucks tho. You know all these people who did things in their past and the family life. You feel so behind and I could have fixed that. I guess it’s important to realize you’re not alone tho. I know people my age or older who aren’t married or don’t have kids either and might want that too. I just have to stay focused. I can do a lot of stuff just in this year if I just keep taking chances and being more social like I’m trying. It’s hard to not think back on my past because of my age and this pressure I feel. I had all this time before and let it pass by and now the window feels like it’s closing and I have to hurry up and the stress with that
Yeah, I definitely don’t know anyone who doesn’t have regrets about missed opportunities. But all you can do is look ahead. And I think that we were doing the best we could at the time. So recognize that and forgive ourselves. We were learning a lot during that period of time when we were apparently doing nothing.
I know I’m responding back to your previous comment or one that I already did reply to, but now specifying another part of your response.
“When I first started teaching I realized that public speaking made me a bit nervous, but I had no choice but to keep facing my fears over and over again, and then I became comfortable with it. I so maybe grow with it but stay tune to how others feel, social cues?”
This is the ironic thing and why my issue feels like such a mystery. Well I guess not because I’ve had times as a child where I was sheltered a little because of medical stuff and was bullied in middle school. That might be why there was more sensitivity to rejection, even though my self esteem was only effected during those times. I say once I was an adult and hung with friends from my friend and did some stuff. Not as much as I wanted or should have done, because I shyed away from big social stuff perhaps because of my past. Things progressed over time tho. But my self esteem was strong after I was out of my teens tho, one might say mine could be too strong sometimes ha (pride), I don’t brag, but I’m “aware” when I’m good at things or stuff and will have high expectations in that area. I think people who are cocky or brag are insecure, but I can kind of acknowledge what I’m good at and how I compare to others over time if I keep doing well and know I’m good at something. But anyways. It’s so specified tho. I was shy as a kid for reasons probably as explained. The thing is, even then as a kid in middle school or when I progressed but has some in highschool. There were kids much more than me. Like I wasn’t quiet which many who were shy were. I’ve always had a ton of personality but one who had to warm up to people first.
Normally people with social anxiety have a hard time just in regular social situations or freeze up or aloof or akward, etc. Or multiple ways. Like you said public speaking was tough for you. I did a course in college. That’s the weird thing though. Even though I have to warm up to ppl. It wasn’t that tough for me, Yeah I was a little nervous, but it was not tough for me. The ironic thing is I knew some people in my class who I’ve known pretty well from outside of class. And some were otherwise extroverts. They could talk to ppl they don’t know at parties and it’s easy. But they said how the public speaking made the nervous. Here at the time it was tough for me to ask a girl out but public speaking was not tough. My buddy even now, said it;’s good to go on dates so it’s not tough for you, should you meet someone you like. I went on dates last summer. But first dates don’t make me nervous and yet I heard all these people say it can be nerve wracking who might otherwise be very social and not seem to have social anxiety. I guess my social anxiety is due to not having control of the situation. When I’m public speaking, I could fumble my words, say something wrong, so all these possible embarrassing situations.
But I have it written, I have it practiced and planned, so I feel confident it will go well because I’m prepared. When I’m on a first date, I don’t know if the woman will be attracted to me, like me or I like her. But I feel she wants to talk or she obviously won’t take her time to meet me. That invitation itself makes conversation easier for me. Walking across a room at a bar and normally women aren’t by themselves and it’s atleast two. And just not just saying hi, but have a good opening convo, but then carrying the conversation. That can feel stressful and create social anxiety. You know it’s not a big deal, but some reason anxiety can not always be rational. So you freeze every time you go out in which you promised yourself you were going to approach but same story. For someone that has to warm up to ppl, it can feel daunting to “wing it” in convo with a woman or women you don’t know or are in an environment we have nothing in common with. Trying to find interesting questions, find something in common, make it fun. It feels like too much thinking. I can small talk but I don’t like topics often with that so I’m picky. My friend just seems to not have to think in that regard I guess. The ironic thing is I am interesting tho I just like have to get in a “flow” first. Once I am, then my charming, funny, witty personality shows. Did I tell you I’m humble? lol. It doesn’t make sense, so my social anxiety is so specific when it can be stronger or broader for many people. It’s really such specific situation. Like I’m quite sociable when a lot of people aren’t to baristas, or people working out and about every day. I mean I will say somethings here and there if I’m near someone shopping. But I try not to bother ppl too much, that can be tricky.
Some of this might be biological. I did 23 and me and it said that I have about an average likelihood of fear of public speaking. But most people fear death and then public speaking next. Maybe your biology is low on public speaking. And maybe biologically you are more shy with asking people out but I think that’s also common. It’s a constant risk of rejection, which understandably many people want to avoid. Of course social experiences affect all this too. So it’s complicated. And most people have been bullied at some point. And it’s interesting that even bullies were bullied. They have felt powerless and want to feel powerful. The most confident people are the least likely to bully because there’s simply no reason to. They don’t need to put someone else down to raise themselves up… But yeah, just keep facing your fear makes the fear diminish.
It’s not asking out. I can ask out a girl I’m working with or talking in a sports league. It’s coming up to someone, a stranger without anything to seemindly talk about. Make it interesting without it ackward and carry the conversation. Not just for a little bit, but to continue it for a good period of time. You want to be able to have good prolonged conversation, that’s how chemistry builds and things can go well with setting up a date or hooking up, etc. I just need to do it, and not think. That’s why it’s been tough because I have tendency to over think things in general. That same brain function I have that allows me to problem solve at a high level or break things down academically or other situations, is the curse regarding a social situation. I unintentionally put too much pressure on myself sometimes from thinking about or trying to figure things out before talking to someone instead of just taking the chance and let the chips fall where they fall. This is only when approaching a woman in a situation like a bar. It’s not like that talking to someone in a mutual setting who I don’t know but find it less pressure or easier to talk in
I know people who can seem to just easily talk, and a lot of them talk about the most boring things you just want to escape. So it sounds like you want to talk about non-boring things and that can take effort for most people. I find myself in the same situation but not for the same motivation as you. Friendships are important to me and I was not blessed with the gift of gab. So I don’t think people realize how much effort it takes for me to think of interesting conversational topics and keep the conversation going. Virginia Woolf has a book called Mrs. Dalloway. Truth be told I hate reading Virginia Woolf, but I know the main character in this book comes across as effortlessly creating social gatherings but in your head you see how much work she is going through to do it. So I think you and I are not alone. And I tell myself that it’s a good growing experience.
Hi Bob, thanks for your article. I think you made an interesting point with recognizing that men are usually in competition with other men- so as far as men feeling like they are seeking approval of women in a similar vain as the reverse seems a little off based on that observation you had earlier.
I feel like everyone is seeking approval of men: men from other men, and women from men. This is because of the patriarchy pushing the narrative that a man’s validation is the most important validation. This validation is important because of the role of the provider that men are forced to fall into. Therefore, whoever is the most financially secure is the one that men and women are seeking approval from since they are the ones that are providing security. But I think that you actually said this in other words when you touched on the competition that we are in with each other (mostly for resources). I appreciate the point of positivity you leave off on, that we should be content as people in general. However, I think it’s hard to expect men to change this behavior as well because they are responding to the roles that are placed on them. What we really need as a society is an entire socio-political and economic shift but that’s a tall order!
No you definitely aren’t seeing my point . Sure there are insecure men who bass their worth on approval from other men. But there’s the other part. The part is purely internal and not about other Mens approval. This is about the significance women have on mens mental health and happiness . The original post by the girl was about how much Women do for Mens approval. When I’m showing it’s Just as much. How much an impact a woman being attracted or not being attested to a man has on Mens efforts, emotional and mental well being .
I say even more so for men, because a woman’s sexual attention to a man is so important to men and how much their energy and happiness revolves around that which women aren’t so governed by that. Men can desire sex and it have nothing to do with bragging or telling other men for approval believe it or not. It can be strictly womens bodies are sexualized And men are so lustful to women as a result. So a great desire to get laid. Getting laid or not can have a huge impact on a man being happy or satisfied, or unsatisfied and upset or depressed. Thus me exemplifying how women have more of an impact on Mens happiness than Mens impact on womens happiness or in different ways but just as strong for men. And men can want to get laid purely for internal reasons and not not for approval of men. But internal validation of one’s own ego. If a man feels he’s more attractive than other men but other men are getting sex, he may feel sad and upset that he’s not having those great satisfactions those guys have had. And if it’s because of getting in his own way but feeling he has better traits than the other Guys but squandered them.
So he finally gets laid a bunch of times and now is internally Happy and validated because he’s not missing out on the satisfaction that other guys have had but he missed despite being more attractive. If you know you have better traits than other guys but don’t utilize them because of anxiety, that’s such a waste. To finally utilize those traits and do well, is very satisfying for a Mens pride and lust. As it confirms what he already knew and that he’s more attractive than a lot of guys on basis of various traits women commonly find sexually attractive. Such traits as confidence, sense of humor, kind, good personality, intelligent, witty, charming, good looks can definitely be a plus combo with personality. So think if you’re a guy with a bunch of these traits but just overthink to not take the chances so unmet desires. That’s like a tall athletic, strong armed, accurate qb, not showing up to football games. But average athletic , armed qbs showing up, taking losses but still getting some wins. So a womens “approval” or attention of Mens courting has a great impact on Mens happiness.
But I’m wondering whether such a low viral load would help confer any immunity. If not I still might get it 😦 At least it seems to have peaked in the bay area.”
That’;s the crazy thing and why it’s a mystery why I got it now compared to the spring when it was surging in my state and area. My area was actually the first area where it surged first in US. So right now it’s at it’s lowest infections it’s been since last early summer. It’s peaked and declined. I somehow didn’t get it when I went to florida in April and was a around a ton of people when went to universal studio etc. Yet I got it just before memorial weekened when cases were on the decline ha.
Pretty much no one I know in the Bay Area got Covid until this last round. It must be super contagious.
A good point made from Bob’s post was that comparing yourself to others can be very harmful to your happiness. Although there can be something you’re good at, there’s always going to be someone better in a different aspect. As hard as it is, I think it’s just more important to focus on your own self and identify the things you’re good at and appreciate that. A sentence from the actual blog that also points out a good idea is the contradiction of society’s expectations for different genders, “women who have a lot of sex are often shamed and yet men get angry that they can’t easily get sex.” It’s crazy and unfortunate how true this is.
Yes, but how do you know what you’re good at without comparing? That’s why I and others compare. We like to be good at things and do well and accomplish things. It’s hard to know or feel you;re good at something without seeing how your compare or rank compared to others. Without seeing how you perform vs others, you;re only speculation on your own skills. But yes it;s true, but very difficult to not compare if you;re a competitive person
Hope you had a nice Memorial Day btw
I was nice. The weather was in the mid 70s, which was pleasant. About half the time the weather is in the 60s so I’m always happy when it’s sunny and warm for Memorial Weekend. I hope you had a nice memorial weekend too!
That’s good you had a nice memorial day. Mine was less exciting. I had covid lol. I got it Thursday before memorial day. But the positive thing is it was very mild for me. I felt a little sick, so called out from work thursday morning and glad I did as I didn’t know I had it. But felt it’s best I don;t come in to work in case it was it, but I would have never thought I had it. I ended up testing with home kit later that day and was positive. I ended up getting a pcr test the next day to confirm it and I had it. But I guess my experience brings home the importance of being vaccinated. I ended up being boosted back in early January and I feel that had a lot to do with it being very mild and I think omicron is much more transmissible but not as strong as the previous variants. It’s not something to scoff about but from what I’ve read, it’s luckily not as pathogenic as previous. The first one, alpha was brutal.
I never got it, but I know some who had it and said it knocked them out for 2 weeks so I’m glad I never got that back in 2020 especially since the vaccine wasn’t out yet and seeing I could have a chance of having an auto immune response. That’s why I got boosted, not because I have bad health. I’m relatively young in my 30s and my immune system is pretty good, it’s just a bit wacky. So my primary doctor though it would be best to take booster, so I did. My parents who are in late 60s, early 70 got it too because of their age, tho they are healthy for their age. My mom got it, and luckily it was mild for he too and probably because of her booster shot. Yeah all I had was some coughing, a sore throat early morning thursday. Had a lozenge and literally but noon my throat wasn’t sore anymore, coughing stopped. I didn’;t have a headache. I only had a very brief fever, low one late thursday night, but like just for an hour. Sweated it out Friday morning. And it was basically just mild congestion from mid friday through Tuesday which was my last day or quarantine. I had a mask one wherever I want 5 additional days which youre supposed to do. But yeah it was boring, but positive thing is if I was going to get it. I’d rather it be early summer so I got rest of summer to enjoy ha. Since I’m boosted and now have natural immunity. I got that so called “super immunity” now right? Turbo, super, nitro charged, immunity. I got the Fast and Furious immunity now 😉
Yeah, not so many people are dying anymore. I think between people getting the virus and getting the vaccine our bodies are learning to respond to it.
Although I guess at the older ages they are dying at a higher rate actually. But I think it’s because with the first round everyone was so careful that older people were really isolated from the virus whereas now people are more casual, so the older people are more likely to get it and then die, even if it’s a milder form.
I kind of lucked out in that my husband came home from out of town thinking he had a cold so I started staying away from him right away. His was like a bad cold.
I’m not sure whether I ever got Covid.
I started taking zinc as soon as he thought he had a cold — just the throat lozenges and I never had any symptoms in my throat.
Two days after he got home I started having a hugely runny nose so I decided to swab my nose w/zinc and it went away. Came back five hours later. I swabbed again. It went away and never came back.
Was that Covid? I don’t know. Maybe I had such a small viral load that I easily fought it off because I was taking zinc, venrtilating the house and staying away from my husband (he spent most his time in the master bedroom and the bonus room while I spent most my time in the guest room and the office. And then we both masked in common areas — where we avoided being together at the same time).
But apparently the Covid test only shows whether your viral load is large enough to be contagious.
But I’m wondering whether such a low viral load would help confer any immunity. If not I still might get it 😦 At least it seems to have peaked in the bay area.
“I feel like you might beat yourself up a bit because you let opportunities pass. But that’s part of living, growing and learning, right? And I think part of it is forgiving yourself and looking to the past for lessons and to the future for opportunity.”
Thanks. I can be tough on myself and part of that though is because I have high expectations of myself. So I feel I can do well and a lot so I not going ahead and doing what I hoped. I have learned a lot, and this probably wouldn’t have bothered me so much if I didn’t let so much time pass. What does the past lesson’s help when it feels like the future will be as exciting as the past? I try not to think that way, because things can still be fun. I want to feel there isn’t a big drop off in fun that I didn’t take advantage of more when I was younger back then. I mean I’ve pushed myself a lot, like doing co ed kickball, plan to play some more in summer too. Went out a few times, meeting some cool ppl on team I got picked up. There’s a bar nearby that has cover bands play live and nice outdoor venue and they are good as well as its fun. I’m initiating more with like making new friends and some guys from work I’m talking about coming out with.
I look back, because I’m not even shy, but in past some reason just wasn’t always assertive enough with like initiating as far as setting up plans with ppl as far as making new friends and stuff. I joked with my best friend how one of the guys I worked with, great dude. Young guy only 23, but I miss working with him already, but we said we’ll catch up soon again. He left the company I work with because of a new career. So I set up a place to go out to, to celebrate his new career and like good bye for one’s he’s leaving. No one really planned it which I was surprised and that happens with managers who leave if ppl like them etc. But it was me asking him if he wanted to go to so and so next saturday and the other guy in our department I asked and such they’ll come too.
On that last day I saw some of the ppl he knows and I know and like and told them,we’re going out to this place at 9 when we’re out and come out if they want. It was a good turn out. Actually not too big of a crowd but like 10 or 11 of us. At end of night, the friend from work I set it up for thanked me. I hope I can get him to join the kickball as he likes playing sports, I think he’ll be good too as I think he’s a fast runner ha. But I was joking with my best friend who didn’t do much but asked me what I did the other night. I joked with best friend who I was the initiator for a social situation for once, how about that lol. I was being funny about that, because my best friend I was telling this. I’ve referenced about him before I think. The extrovert, risk taker, sociable guy who in his young days slept with multiple women. That was a long time ago, he also had many relationships too and is basically married to the woman he’s been with for many years now. So he’s monogamous and committed. That was a long time ago. But I joked, because he’s always been the initiator with things, since I’ve been friends with him since 3rd grade. Hell, he’s the one that reached to me for the basketball league we were in. I was quite shy then and I didn’t even talk to him and surprised he noticed me, He one day was like, hey want to come over to my parents and play so and so game?” lol
So like I’m taking more initiative after my later years which he did ever since he was a kid and no biggie for him ha. Shows what the opposite we are but maybe good because he’s helped me a lot come out of my shell. We have some similiarities with big egos and strong minded. We don’t do it now, but we used to fight like brothers growing up ha. I wish I went faster with somethings, but I guess it’s better late than never. So now I’m like ready to do more stuff and going out and stuff and anxious but excited to. It feels different before, I feel in a better state of mind to initiate and approach women than before.
It’s great to see how you are growing, and interesting to me and that I seem to be becoming an extrovert, too. So some parallels there between the two of us. I’ve got a dinner group going and a friend group where we get together on a regular basis and it’s all because of me. I’ve been nicknamed “the gatherer.”
Another thing to consider is whether the goals you feel you pass by are possibly based more on fantasy than reality and whether they would actually make you happy.
On that first part, I read a book called “Guyland” by Michael Kimmel who studies men and masculinity, and he talks about how guys bragging (and, frankly, making stuff up) and porn lead other men to think that they are missing out, when it’s actually all fantasy in the first place.
On that second part, I have been putting off watching “secrets of playboy” A&E oh and was struck by how Hefner would seem to have it all and yet seemed unfulfilled and frustrated. When he got everything he wanted it all seems so blasé and then he had to go weirder and naughtier too get aroused, while hurting many people in the process. His life didn’t actually seem to be satisfying for him. So that’s something to think about.
And all of this discussion is getting me thinking about another blog post. Stay tuned! And thanks for being my muse.
But in saying that, you;re right about what you showed about hefner saying he hurt ppl. I don’t think I’m always being true to myself as I probably am suppressing things because of my big ego. I’m very thoughtful and have a lot of feelings, which is like opposite for someone that can just bang a bunch of women without having a relationship. But I’ve realized I have to be careful,and maybe it’s good I haven’t been promiscious because I feel compared a lot of men, I could hurt womens feelings more than other men. I know that can be tough for women in general because of it being hard for women to have sex without feelings or connection and being hurt just from that and nothing more, But I feel it would add more hurt from me, because (it sounds like I’m bragging, but not trying to). From my experience girls in school and women later on that were attracted to me. They weren’t just simply attracted to me, that often really, really liked me. It sounds funny, because it seems like a word to mean like school girl as in crush.
But not just school but like even as an adult though my 20s and such, I’ve had a decent number of women having crushes on me ha. Yes there are others who were attracted but not like that. I feel you can be attracted without having strong feelings of attraction toward someone. I can be attracted to women, without too much feelings whereas others I feel more. I must be lovable or something lol, but yeah I’ve had plenty that were attracted to me but just adored me too to go with that. So it feels like I have to be careful, because it feels like compared to other guys as a result I could hurt women’s feelings even more than other guys because of how manage to spur women to really like me when attracted to me. I had one that was kind of obsessed who I worked with, She was funny and I had fun talking with her, but I wasn’t into her. We were friends, though she didn’t hide that she liked me a lot and attracted to me. I was kind of messed up what she did though.
I used to walk with her from my previous work place when working and talking and I noticed for a few weeks. The other women that I knew, that I worked there would be looking at us, smiling and talking, like they are trying to figure something out between me and the other woman. Well one day I was working and the other woman was off that day. The two women who were looking at us, who I knew. They came up to me with this smirk on their face, which made me curious what the heck was on their mind or what they seemingly wanted to ask me. They both smiled and laughed, and said they didn;t believe it, but had to ask. They asked if I had sex with that woman. I was shocked, and said no. They laughed and didn’t believe I did, but that woman told them and others I had sex with her. I think my expression was “wtf”. It was pretty messed up to do that tho. I wasn’t mad because they didn’t believe it, and even tho I don’t like false rumors, in a way it was a little flattering. It was amusing because it was like a role reverse.
If that’s done, that’s normally dudes making up such stuff to other dudes. I remember amusingly question to myself…” so does that mean, I’m the hot guy from work?” lol for a woman to tell others that? That’s a “peer” thing to do. You don’t say that unless you’re feeling others around you find such person attractive or atleast find person physically attractive. I would never lie about something like that. But If I found a girl cute from work and said to the guy’s “yo, you see what’s her name, isn’t she hot”” But the dudes were like “meh”. Even if I wanted to make up something, I wouldn’t, because there would be nothing for me to brag about considering the other guys feelings about same girl. It’s only if they are also like “yeah she’s cute too”, that I would feel compelled to lie about something to boost myself. Tho it was still pretty messed up she did that. Like I only went to applebees or whatever here and there. I never even kissed her or anything. I wasn’t attracted to her, but she was fun to be around.
Well, I think it’s cool to have friends of the opposite sex. You can learn a lot from each other too.
And yeah, maybe in some ways it’s best how things turned out — even if in surprising ways.
I also wanted to add. I appreciate you not judging me with my posts. I realize or felt, you might say or thing I’m full of myself with my positive, non humble views of my positive traits lol. I don’t say such stuff to brag, but it’s how I feel based on my abilities and potential. I point it out to show how much I felt I’ve underutilized myself as a result and why its bothered me so much.
Hey, everyone’s human. I just see you as being very human. So I can appreciate that.
“So it sounds like the general population needs healthy ways to build their self-esteem. And that is more matter of psychology than sociology, and could be interesting to explore.”
If you think about it, our culture is set for people to be competitive though. I mean isn’t capitalism kind of “dog eat dog”. The top dog or the best performer is the one who gets the top promotion, the top position, the top career, the most wealth and success in whatever they are going for right? You have to beat out and leap frog the many others vying for that spot? So much is “ranked” right? Grades. You get A’s you’re very smart right, smarter than rest right? You get C’s are you smart or just simply average intelligence? What about gps, or SATs? How about IQ test to measure one’s intelligence. I don’t believe in participation trophies, but first place, second place, third place? Every since you grow up as a kid, you internalize this. You aim to be the top position, because that’s an accomplishment so in a way out performing or being better than others is the accomplishment because it means you’re very good at something and doing well in that area.
I think you nailed it on the head. It is cultural. So it’s seeps in unconsciously. The only way out is to become conscious of it and to consider whether you might take a different track.
I think back to an Eagles song, “so often times it happens that we live our lives in chains and we never even know we have the key.”
Ah, another blog post idea.
I think that it’s frightening how the patriarchy influences such strict gender binaries and gender performances that can lead us to dark and scary places. I do agree with Bob about the ways we are socialized into gender, we do learn early on how to perform our gender however men and women both receive really harmful messages about their gender throughout their life. I think on one end, because of how mainstream feminism has become with movements like body positivity, we’ve seen a shift in these messages. However, I feel like the attitude about this conversation for men is completely different! I hope that it changes soon and we can create gender equity for everyone.
It’s so disheartening to hear about rape and how terrible schools can handle it, especially all the Trumpian Title XI changes (I believe they have been repealed but I’m not sure). I am always so in awe of the bravery of survivors who share their stories, it’s people like that who really open doors and create safer spaces for people who’ve survived the assault. I often wonder what it means to protect victims but also what does it means to create justice? How do we ensure that we create a culture of consent?
Raising women’s equality helps a lot. When women are seen as people and not objects they are treated much better. And hopefully raising awareness will also help. It looks like there is much work still to do.
I think that it’s so interesting the ways that patriarchy functions to both harm men and women. While women are often bombarded with various harmful messages about their body, sexuality, and age–there have been loud, productive movements in response. For example, the body-positive movement focuses on self-acceptance and was championed by fat women of color, the repercussions of this radical movement are seen in the changes in the way we now talk about bodies and even size inclusion in department stores. However, there is still a lack of this type of discussion or action for men who face the same issues surrounding sexuality and body image as women.
I really appreciated this point of view. It’s not often we get to see the male perspective on self esteem issues. I find it unfair how women get the negativity from the competition between men. The double standards formed by the pressures on either gender. I also agree it’s a set up because you can’t ever win when comparing to others. Plus what one person considers to be sufficient can be different to another so the winning choice might not even be the same.
Yes, I really appreciate being able to get a male perspective on my blog from time to time. Thanks Bob!
I really appreciated this point of view. It’s not often we get to see the male perspective on self esteem issues. I find it unfair how women get the negativity from the competition between men. The double standards formed by the pressures on either gender. I also agree it’s a set up because you can’t ever win when comparing to others. Plus what one person considers to be sufficient can be different to another so the winning choice might not even be the same.
This article headline caught my attention immediately. I think it is 100% true how “much joy, pride and anger, for boys, is actually based on female desire or lack of desire for them.” By being in my early 20s and thinking back to high school and even boys my age, they obsess over the attractiveness of the women they are involved with. There are some men that do not care but for most of the ones I’ve encountered/ seen in society, they do care. They are competitive and they like to feel like winners amongst their friends, the win being how attractive their partner is. I really enjoyed reading this post because it is true that validation leads to men feeling happy or depressed and then it leads to women being used as pawns of men’s egos competing with each other.
Before reading this blog posting about men, I didn’t know that they seek so much validation from us women. I knew they wanted validation from us women, but I didn’t know the extent to which it affects them. Most men I’ve met make it seem like they don’t care about women’s validation and that women aren’t important to them. Personally, I’ve seen a lot of men in my life treat the women like an option and like they aren’t important. However, now that I’ve read this post, I think that could be due to those men having low self-esteem. This post has opened my eyes to how men really feel about women’s opinions. I feel like it’s true that men who are unhappy use women as pawns to boost their egos. I agree that society does shape people to be competitive with each other causing people to compare themselves to others often which can lead them to becoming unhappy with themselves. Society needs to stop encouraging people to be competitive with each other and teach people to be kind and supportive instead. There is enough room for everyone. I hope that people will stop comparing themselves to others and realize that being different from everyone else is a blessing. If we were all the same life would be so boring.
Were those men getting laid tho who weren’t treating women as important tho? It’s easier to have that off your mind when you’re content. If you’re horny and not getting laid, you’ll more likely not be content and be very focused on sex thus women’s desires. Plus a man that doesn’t feel women aren’t important to him, may be a bit self absorbed. It seems almost overly or over confident to not care about the opposite sex. It seems one would be too consumed in themselves as well. Like in life, it’s a balance. You don’t want to be too consumed with others, but you still want to care about the ppl around you and how your relation to them is. You also don’t want to be overly consumed in yourself either as your thoughts may be more selfish and less selfless, because you are the top of your concerns and thoughts. But it’s good to think of yourself. Moderation. Plus men aren’t often going to want to make it seem women mean too much, it’s often something guys will do to try to look cool or show they got the power to not care, but still get women. They may care, but they will hide it.
This post truly conveys the validation we all seek as humans. While many over-sexualized women classify hypersexuality as daddy issues men have similar emotions that go unnoticed. The high standard society has on physical appreciation is toxic. The competitive environment it creates is harmful to all gender who base their self-esteem on the thought of others, which is a majority of people since that is what they grow up believing. It’s important to remember that we are all struggling and self-validation is just sensible.
It’s not about the thoughts of others so much to do with one’s own ego. Everybody wants to feel desired and most men desire sex. If you feel you’re desirable as a man but have a hard time approaching because of anxiety but feel you’re handsome and really funny. It really stings to not get dates like you wished you would or sex and then seeing others getting greatly desired satisfaction that you’re craving and missing out on. It’s hard for that to not not affect your ego and to not be sad, upset and greatly frustrated as a man. And this is in relation to women. A man’s happiness and ego being tied to being desirable and sex and how he compares to women is kind. For instance, I’m not happy right now. I got a good job, good family, friends, that should be enough, but I’m not happy with my sex life and greatly desire to pick things up. But the desire is to get with multiple attractive women, not to brag about as I don’t care what men think.
But because I feel I’m funny, more charming and have had plenty find me handsome, but I squandered because of social anxiety at like bars as far as approaching women. I’m doing more, but it sucks, because I want to be committal, but can’t until I’m satisfied with dating life first. Only when my ego is content, can I fully commit otherwise I’m afriad, I might carry possibly resentment to a relationship I’m in. Knowing this woman didn’t starve of sex and now she wants to be with her and only her? It’s easy to be cute about sexuality and sensuality and play with it when you’re content and don’t know what it’s like to starve of it.
It’s another to be high frustrated and filled with regret and unhappy about it therefore, desire to heal your ego that’s on life support and fulfill the desire not satisfied, knowing others have had theirs satisfied. And some more likely not as funny, charming and witty as you. But you fucking wasted because it was so hard taking the chances thus regrets. So wasted your potential. I know it’s my fault but it sucks. It’s like a talented baseball batter, having few homeruns because it was difficult for him to step up to plate and seeing others less talented get the homeruns because they did. So now your’re ready to fix that issue, and you’re not going to stop going to plate just because you finally hit a homerun. As you know there’s many more that you would have had if you tried more and others who got some. You want to fulfill your potential even more because of how much you squandered it and desire those homeruns
I really like what was said here and I agree with everything being said here because this is our reality. Social media builds this standard on how men and women should look like dress etc. and the reality of this is that it affects everyone and creates insecurity and depression. Friends are a big part of this as well, in high school, it was just a big thing basically something to celebrate that a boy slept with the “hottest girl” and I would see and hear about how other boys at school felt insecure and did not like how they looked or dressed or acted because girls wouldn’t look at them it was that girls looked for the “perfect boy” and paid attention to whoever it was and this is nowhere the women’s fault but social media and the people around us is what affect this a lot. We seem to ignore that men/boys also go through this and it isn’t talked about as much but this is the reality and I’ve seen it a lot all my high school and how much it affected my friends. I have seen where social media and the people around us put everything like a competition, about looks, what clothes you wear and what brand you have, what car you drive, what phone you have, and where you live. I have seen when people don’t meet the standard or what is expected from the things I’ve listed then there is so much backlash and people talking bad about you.
Thank you for this thoughtful reply.
This is the predatory nature of sexual capitalism, leaving it to each person to manage their place in the sexual marketplace. Just as in the rest of life, capitalism creates alienation, insecurity and eventual chaos. Sexual socialism is the answer. Let those lacking sexual capital get government sponsored upgrades to be better equipped to compete in the sexual marketplace.
I don’t understand this. Socialism involves the state owning the means of production. So you want the state to own and control prostitution and pornography? And how is that helpful?
Btw, I have a feeling I might have a journey self reflection post based on if things go I hope this summer..
Looking forward!
After just having read the negative effects that come from seeking validation in men for self-esteem, it was interesting to notice the way that they are similar in severity but in different ways. By this I mean, in regard to women, it seems the main source of which women seek validation from men for self esteem stems from the gendered, societal norm that women are lesser than men and that men and masculinity are valued over women and femininity. One of the main differences I notice comes from the fact that women’s need for validation of men for self esteem stems from physical features while it seems, based on this article, that, for men, validation from women for self-esteem comes in the form of materiality. What is more detrimental is the lengths they will go to, to achieve these materialistic things in order to impress a woman. Similarly detrimental is the competitive aspect of men’s gendered, societal role as not only must they worry about the approval and validation of women, they have the additional stressor of needing to be better than other men. And finally, I found great joy in reading your analogical comparison to rich and poor to describe the detrimental effects that such stressors to impress women and compete with men as a result of gendered, societal norms, can have on an individual and agree that there is no need to base our happiness on the other gender’s validation.
Thanks for adding to the conversation by teasing some of the differences and similarities out.
I’m writing to you but it’s also based on the poster your responding to as well and his take. I tell this because it’s something that’s weighed on my mind. Not the perspective of guys who feel they aren’t desirable or lacking something and envious of others. The truth is some of that issue can be because of dudes being creepy or having toxic traits that just shine right through. They think they are hiding it well or can fake it, but women see right through it. But there are also guys who struggle because they are very shy, maybe not physically attractive, were akward, or eccentric, not much personality, but decent guys.
Maybe were bullied in school and left their self esteem in shambles. Who knows. But I do feel some guys blame women, when it’s their fault especially if toxic traits. I do agree their is a lot of insecurity with men wanting sex with women to show off to men and get validation through women that way. I don’t feel mine is societal compared to men the poster was saying as far as “men feeling the need to be better than men”. That sounds it’s societal to me. Because my question about that part that I quoted is. Why would men in general feel the need to be better than men? I get it if you are naturally good at something or have potential, but to me, it feels like men feel they should get with many women, just because. Like a blind self bias. So does “Jake” feel he should be better than other men with women just because he’s jake?……Like what traits do you have? More often than not, some of these guys I don’t feel have stand apart traits to feel such away other than a blind self bias. What are your strengths and weaknesses? If you’re not athletic and don’t have good eye hand coordination, you shouldn’t have high expectations of doing well in sports. That sounds mean, but it’s true. However, same person could be very smart in mathematics and succeed in that area that the athletic person doesn’t.
I broke this up to try to help. For me, I don’t want to be a manwhore, but I wasn’t happy with what I felt was a lacking amount of sex. It’s not because of others, but because I knew I let things pass me by because of anxiety and regrets suck, let me tell you. It’s because it’s what I actually desired, but the amount was so low imo just based on a not so attractive guy let alone me. Yes I’m not humble, but I’m not cocky either. You’ll rarely hear me brag, that feels like insecurity and trying to prove something to others. So It really stung, and I think of how much time I wasted and I’d be probably married by now if I sowed oats long time ago or ready to get serious. As a result this eats away at me and I’m not happy. I know it’s not a sign of me not being desirable. My best friend is brutally honest so when he says something positive, it’s how he actually feels. He told me I can get any woman I want, so I shouldn’t let this bother my ego. But I said that’s true but then that only causes regret for me. Here comes my humility btw, I already knew that lol. The one good thing is I have taken much more initiate in social things with making friends and trying different things that will help me meet ppl. I did dating apps last year when things weren’t opened as much.
I took it positive for dating experience, as I went on 4 dates through the summer last year. But I’m over that and going out and stuff. It sucks tho because I have a lot of feelings. I have like two sides to me. The romantic, emotional loving side, and the big ego where I might suppress those feelings to feed my pride. Not because I aim for other’s approval, but because I feel strongly about myself and hate, I hate what I call underutilizing myself. If I feel I have good potential in an area and I fail to take the chances, I know it’s my fault, but I think ppl don’t realize how difficult anxiety can be for ppl to overcome when you know it’s not a big deal. But you still some reason freeze approaching women at a bar even if It’s not you lacking believe in yourself, but I think not having control in how things go down if that makes sense. But anyway I’ve done a lot of positive things now with pushing myself, but sometimes I look back thinking “I should’ve done this,
I should’ve done that” “I wasted so much time”. It sucks because I’m stressed out in meeting a woman that’s great, because whether I should committ or not. I feel it’s a waste, because if a relationship goes a year or 2, this stuff eats at me and won’t go away. It will just go dormant, but pop up and I just feel I’ll end up being irritable and it would just ruin the relationship. I know I have attractive traits and the question might be how do you know? Because when I’m comfortable, I for whatever reason have an ability to draw women’s attention toward me even when guys are around at work or class. Some, yes it just simply liking, and friendship but other’s were crushes or signs of attraction that I didn’t always jump on or didn’t want to because of other reasons. It’s not an act, but it seems like women like playfulness or like witty quips and all that stuff. I don’t do it to be liked, that happens genuinely when things pop up in my head. When I’m comfortable, I can work a room. But yet I squandered it from not taking enough shots “sigh”.
re: “But I do feel some guys blame women, when it’s their fault especially if toxic traits.”
Here are a couple of my thoughts. I do think that a women can be at fault is she is cruel in the way she rejects. And because we are still more accustomed to men asking women out, women can also feel rejected by not being asked out. And then these women can’t blame men, just as some men blame women.
But as you suggest there is also something for both women and men who feel rejected to learn. Maybe it has to do with gaining confidence through things other than self-esteem through gaining approval of the opposite sex. Give me also involve how you see others. Some of the happiest couples I know are not very attractive by conventional standards. And they just let that go and love each other. I’m sure there are many other things to learn from these trials. I even wrote a post about how if you believe you are beautiful others seem to see you that way, too. https://broadblogs.com/2012/06/04/believe-youre-beautiful-others-will-too/
Another problem is that we shame women sexuality which represses it. And then women lose interest in sex. More here: https://broadblogs.com/2016/04/18/women-are-more-responsive-to-repression/ And that makes it more difficult for men to get sex. And some think that women’s sexuality is deliberately shamed so that men can have their game about who can “conquer” women, with some men winning and gaining self-esteem that way. Of course all of this reeks of insecurity. If men felt more secure in the first place they wouldn’t feel any need to play that game.
So it sounds like the general population needs healthy ways to build their self-esteem. And that is more matter of psychology than sociology, and could be interesting to explore. Interestingly, despite the fact that blacks are put down by society, as individuals they have among the highest self-esteem because their parents teach them to get their self-esteem from inside, not based on others judgments. And like you said, different people have different strengths, so they can focus on the strengths they have and build on those. Interestingly, body posture seems to build our self-esteem. https://blog.ted.com/10-examples-of-how-power-posing-can-work-to-boost-your-confidence/
I feel like you might beat yourself up a bit because you let opportunities pass. But that’s part of living, growing and learning, right? And I think part of it is forgiving yourself and looking to the past for lessons and to the future for opportunity.
And research suggests that the main thing that separates men who get a lot of sex partners from those who don’t is that the former don’t seem to mind rejection, and they get rejected a lot! And there are different ways to look at that. Maybe it’s not entirely a bad thing if rejection bothers you. At least you can read some social cues. But when it stops you from doing things that important to you, well, they say the way to get over fear is to face it. When I first started teaching I realized that public speaking made me a bit nervous, but I had no choice but to keep facing my fears over and over again, and then I became comfortable with it. I so maybe grow with it but stay tune to how others feel, social cues?
By the way, you’re becoming a much better writer overtime. And I always appreciate your thoughts because they make me think hard about things, too.
I really enjoyed this post because it highlighted a struggle for men that is not normally acknowledged. It is so prevalent in society that individuals base their self worth on how successful they can be in a certain aspects of their life. This can be through partying, sex, or other proclaimed fulfilling things. As society has progressed issues that seemed to be issues just for women are not exclusively gendered issues. Raising awareness of these issues and how prevalent they are for all people can help people be aware of their actions and motives. Being confident will lead to people being happier and treating others better. Women have long dealt with self-esteem issue but our competitive nature is destroying the possibility of being content. Hopefully more awareness can be brought to this topic.
Thank you for your comment. I always appreciate when my readers have such interesting perspectives to present.
Beautiful article yes you are right we often see women are the losers and of course we should not compare with others. Well shared thanks 👍👍
Yes, I appreciate Bob’s introspective struggle. And well put, at that.
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Women get blamed because yes… it’s
I edited to where I stopped reading.
If you want me to post your comments you need to read and adhere to the comment policy:
You often sound like troll, just trying to create more heat than light. You actually can make some interesting points from time to time. And I respond to those.
If you say something snarky or insulting I stop reading. And if you have a long post and I know you’re likely to eventually say something snarky or insulting I’m not going to read it at all.
I will post comments that disagree with me but they need to be short, sweet (or at least neutral) and cogent.
People who are envious of what other people are, or what they are getting, will never find contentment, no matter what they have.
Wise words.
Yeah that’s true. But it can be understandable to some extent. If someone is doing better or getting what you desire. Even if you are doing ok, it’s good to not get wrapped up about them doing better or else you’ll never be happy. But, if someone hasn’t enjoyed anything, I don’t see how they could be happy. We’re talking about basic human enjoyments that are unmet. Let’s go with a food analogy, if someone is starving and super hungry and just having bread crumbs. You know that’s hardly any eating pleasure and then knowing and seeing others are satisfying there’s.
Steaks, pizza etc just indulging in such enjoyments. So then think of a boy whose a virgin, horny AF, maybe still one out of highschool while other boys have had “satisfaction “ and still. I don’t know how you could spin it for a male to be happy or emotionally fine being unsatisfied especially if he hasn’t been before. The mental anguish and emotional toll that would be on his mental health would be huge if he’s an ordinary man with a health sex drive.
What I appreciate about your piece is that you bring up both sides of it. On the one hand it’s pretty common, pretty human, to feel like you’re missing out on things. But you also bring awareness to how that may not be the best approach, that there is a wise path — as you raise in your last paragraph.
Nice post, it’s always good to talk about gender issues, to bring understanding.
Thank you. And since I had one article on women seeking men for self-esteem I thought it was good to get the other side.
Please note that this was written as a comment by one of my readers, “Bob” and edited by me.
Thanks Bob!