Bucket Lists and F*ck It Lists
By Pamela Robinson
The internet has “disrupted” courting.
Couples sit side by side, not talking, computers or phones on their laps.
The events of courting, including breaking up, are delivered via text message.
Pornography in all forms is easy to access on the Internet.
How will relationships survive through the twenty-first century?
We’ve all heard of the bucket list. Mine has such items as travel to Machu Picchu, Greece, the Galapagos, Panama, Cuba. Have great grandchildren. Outlive my mother, who lived to be 98 taking only two regular prescription medicines. Experience a great and lasting love.
But lately I have overheard conversations that lead me to believe that many men have a different sort of list; I call it a f*ckit list.
Items on the f*ck it list
Items on the f*ck it list include elaborate blow jobs (plain oral sex is probably too mundane (the operative word is “swallows”), anal sex, group sex (threesomes, foursomes, all sorts), bondage, sex in public places, voyeuristic sex, and no doubt many other experiences.
Sometimes it’s combinations of things like watching someone else have sex with animals. Does that count as two items on the list?
The predominate feature of these sexual adventures seems to be that women are reduced to objects, degraded and depersonalized. Participants, perhaps, but being passive is not a negative outcome for these guys.
What we used to call making love, is now called casual sex, a f*ck.
When my first husband and I were dating, an old high school friend told us he had a girlfriend who belonged to the Sigma Kappa sorority. My ex was disgusted when someone inquired, “Are you getting any sticking off that SK?” I’m not sure what today’s young men would think about a question like that.
One of my friends said that young men don’t even talk to women anymore when they are in bed because in internet porn, women don’t talk.
Do these young men have a f*ckit list?
Two souls bonding
In the movie “Our Souls at Night” two senior citizens have a different sort of relationship. They sleep in the same bed together, share intimate thoughts, but don’t have sex. Louis (Robert Redford) meets with his men friends only to be teased and tormented about his “stamina” and “energy.” Even though they have all known Louis and Addie (Jane Fonda) for many years, they make assumptions about their relationship as if Louis had a f*ckit list.
Addie’s reputation is also in question. In the book, even Addie’s son makes that assumption and demands that his mother never see Louis again, threatening her with no contact with her beloved grandson if she doesn’t comply. When I read the book, I concluded that the author disliked women, especially strong women. I felt that a strong woman like Addie would not kowtow to her son’s unfair demands, yet she did. I was relieved that Jane Fonda or the screen writer chose to alter the ending of the movie, retaining Addie’s dignity and independence.
What is the significance of the f*ckit list?
Do men really see women as objects for sexual use and possibly abuse? President Trump is charged with sexual abuse by many women, but he is not damaged by this fact. Neither was Harvey Weinstein for many years. Even President Clinton didn’t show very good judgement, but is still widely admired.
Do the items on “the list” contribute to a relationship, or are they just proof of male dominance and power?
Perhaps some men would interpret the list as proof of a woman’s love and affection if they are extremely insecure. Perhaps they show a desperate need to find intimacy between the sexes yet a failure to do so.
Conquering and being conquered is not caring. Demeaning the opposite sex is not a sign of affection. And I cannot accept this list without knowing why. Why would men in good conscience check off these boxes?
Posted on August 13, 2018, in relationships, sex and sexuality and tagged casual sex, Internet porn and sex, men's sexuality, the "Porn-Star Experience". Bookmark the permalink. 63 Comments.
I started a bucket list about 5 years ago including things such as climbing a water tower or biking across the golden gate. This started because I was listening to a podcast and they were talking about theirs. I like bucket lists in the sense that they are goal. I try to keep then fun but also realistic and possible.
On the other hand I have not started a f*ck it list, but I can also see how it is important. Especially when you get older with your partner. I remember watching Our Souls at Night for the first time and finding it so good because while i don’t fully understand how they feel , I still get it. I remember showing it my grandma because her husband died 10 years prior and I asked her opinion about if she would ever want something like that. And her response was short and sweet that she is doing just fine and misses him but could never deal with another man again.
Reading this post was really interesting to me, I have thought about this plenty of times. I am more of what people call nowadays an “old school” person when it comes to dating, my goal when it comes to dating is to be long-term, not just a casual f*ck for a night. As I thought it is rare to find guys that meet up to those standards in college right now, and it makes me question if I ever will find a guy, which is something I’m okay with to be honest! I have a few guy friends who I can definitely confirm hearing them speak about their casual meetups with a girl and never talk to them after, and I always ask them how they can do that but of course never get an answer that helps me understand. When hearing about my parent’s relationship, who have been together for 25 years, it makes me realize that mostly society and the internet has completely changed the concept of a relationship.
As a young woman growing up in the 21st century, I think the rules in relationships have become extremely difficult to attain and the lines are oftentimes blurred. It seems as though most people (in reference to “men”), look for casual dates and hookups as opposed to long-term monogamous relationships. Fifty or so years ago, it was relatively normal for a man to court a woman, buy her chocolate and flowers and take her out on a date, in hopes to one day become soul mates and live a long and happy life of marriage. Unfortunately, those days are long gone. Couples in today’s society hardly communicate as much and/ or share a mental connection with the person they’re physically attracted to. We live in a society where social media controls our every move and dictates every critical aspect of our lives. This is due to the advancements of technology and Internet services. I can’t emphasize how many dating apps that are being promoted daily, which includes apps like Tinder, Grinder, Bumble, Match.com, E-Harmony, (the list goes on). Ask any young person between the ages of 18 through 35, and you’ll get an astounding number of both men and women who casually date online in hopes of finding their perfect match. From personal experience, I can say, that if you have a specific list in what you’re looking for in a partner, you must be direct and be completely clear and convey that information to the person you’re interested in getting to know. These days, it’s very common for people to date more than one person at the same time until they can narrow it down to a specific person of their choosing, which forces them to claim the term “being exclusive”.
So from reading this blog post, in regards to women creating bucket lists towards substantial goals and places they would like to travel, compared to men who create “f*ck it lists which entails to sexual desires they would like to accomplish, doesn’t surprise me the least bit. I think both men and women are on two completely different pages in how they view the world around them. Women oftentimes seek for love and affection and men just want casual sex. Intimacy is a term that is defined differently between men and women. Ultimately, it takes men a few years to mature and catch up to the mental maturity of a woman. I don’t necessarily think it’s wrong for a guy to have an f*ck it list, but I do believe that physical attraction usually fades and building a mental connection is something that will never fade or go away.
After reading this article and found out about the men’s F*ck list, I think that is crazy the way men see sex. Worse that they are self- fish because they only care about their own satisfaction, and never bother to ask their partner for their approval. As this article shows, men can be insatiable when it comes to sex because they are constantly looking for crazy things to do to satisfied their self. What bother me the most is that they even think about sex with animals, which I found very disturbing, I think that is insane the way men’ brain work, they have no moral. About casual sex is something more noticeable in people now a day, and I think that this has to do cultural or the century we are living in. I now a few of people that likes to go to night clubs so they can have a casual sex, I think this is kind of unsafe but as the author of this article mentioned above, is personal choice.
I found this article particularly interesting, as it is something I think about often. When you ask a woman what her goals in life are, she will start giving you a detailed list of things she wants to accomplish, places she wants to visit, etc. However when you pose that same question to a man he might mention travel goals or things he wants to accomplish, but most of the time his response will revolve around sex. I find this particularly upsetting, since most of the things they are talking about put women in vulnerable and degrading positions. However, I want to believe that men don’t mean to do this. I personally believe that most men think this way only because society has programmed them to think that way. I also think its sad, that men can not talk about wanting serious and romantic relationships with women or they will be seen as “weak” or “girly”, similar to how Louis friends treat him in “Our Souls at Night.”
In this article, the author shows us how the twenty-first century has troubles with relationships due to all the advancements we have such as technology, internet, new slang terms, etc. Pornography is also brought to our attention because it apparently has been changing the meaning of how sexual intercourse should be viewed. Nowadays, instead of calling sex “making love”, people have been calling it f**k. I think this completely changes everyone’s perspective on the real interaction and affection of sexual intercourse because one, it disrespects the actions itself, and two, pornography is all acting and made up stuff, therefore allowing the viewers to think of sex differently. Another thing that has changed was the way people concieve sex. There are typically two partners in sex and one or the other takes the role of “dominance, and due to society, typically the men are the dominant ones. People think this because men tend to have more testerone and hormones, making them occasionally more aggressive than women. This defeats the whole purpose of love making because it is supposed to be a equally powerful experience for people but when there is role making and dominance involved, it can make one or the other not feel the actual emotions that sex causes in one’s self.
For your post I noticed how today’s society is sadly compared to how it used to be back 50 years ago. Where the guy would formally ask us out on a date and buy us flowers and chocolates. What ever changed? What changed was the fact that the internet had changed so much of how we see a relationship and sex and how it’s supposed to be. I personally believe that you should only have sex with someone you are in a relationship with and who one day you could potentially see yourself marrying. I would not want to give have sex with any guy that I would meet, especially nowadays I see guys all the time wanting to just have sex and not have a relationship and then there are the guys who want a relationship with no strings attached to the relationship. It’s so hard for me to believe that our world has changed but in certain ascents it’s good but when it comes to stuff like this the. It’s not so good.
After I read the article Bucket Lists and F*ck It Lists I realized that women seem to always have the same question when regarding this subject. Since to women intimacy should be a way to express love with a moment of sharing between their partners. In the same form, women feel the need that making love should feel comfortable in a desire of love. However, it seems that men find this subject a way to recreate fantasies that might have arose from television shows or magazines leaving aside the spark of love. In a likely matter, men seem to think that it is very unnecessary to have a conversation after intimacy since to them the most important thing is to have their desires granted. After all, it is clearly seen that both genders have a completely different idea and meaning when it comes to intimacy. Since their form of communication to women is love and to men is just sex.
Given how modern and how open to new things this generation is, I really do not find it surprising that ‘fuck it’ lists are a thing but I definitely agree that social media has greatly influenced such ideologies. I am 23 and I am very much surrounded by individuals who truly in their hearts believe that sex is not a big deal. Some of my own friends encourage or have encouraged either myself or those around me to just “live a little.” Although I have no issues with people who choose to treat sex as a meaningless action, that is not the case for me.
The media and how easily obtainable porn is these days has helped create this idea that sex is all fun and games when to some of us it isn’t. It really bothers me knowing that women are almost expected to fulfill fantasies that mean create in their heads after watching porn stars do their thing. Sex then becomes almost like a job that a women must make sure she gets done correctly when it should be a pleasurable experience for the both of them and not just for his satisfaction.
A couple months ago I read an article by Susan Krauss, where she was writing about a research study in New Zealand. Well Krauss mentioned that peopled tend to have sex with multiple partners as a way to cope with their emotional pain, such a depression or anxiety. Sex is known to reduce stress, anxiety and had many health benifits.
Since almost everyone now a days is open to talk about their sex life, people find sex as more of a hobby rather than the act of making love. I believe that If less people talked about their sex life and stopped encouraging their friends to have sex, people would actually consider sex to be a big deal.
It’s not just men who have a sex list. Women do too. Both men and females have their own sexual fantasies. Living their own fantasies gives them their own satisfaction. I honestly don’t see this as a bad thing aslong as both partners are open and honest to eachother .
If women and men want to have sex then let it be. The amount of partners that men and women have don’t define them. Women shouldn’t be considered any less, but sadly our generation is so quick to degrade women and praise men.
I agree and disagree, not all men are like this. But in these times it seems like most men have fuckit lists and tend to think of women as disposable. It is very unfortunate that in todays times but, I think that social media does play a huge role in all of this. Nowadays porn is posted all over social media and people are very open about their likes and dislikes when it comes to women and sex. All of this is being seen by men who are easily influenced ( and I am not saying ALL men are easily influenced) but to those who are they pass it on to the rest and so on. In a lot of situations, the way women are put out in social media and how they should be in bed, what they should be open to doing, down to what they “should be” saying during sex is crazy to me. I think that it is sad because now men believe their next gf or partner should do all those exact things. And what if that next gf or partner isn’t open to some of those things? That is when the problems start because the man is trying to have that person perform those acts and it does end a lot of relationships. I’m saying this because I know 2 people who went through it and unfortunately it was social media as the influencer.
I think there is something to be said about how women are looked at as disposable sexual objects in the 21st century. I remember a time when women were adored by their significant other and one woman was enough to fulfill his desires and fantasies she was called his wife/ girlfriend. Porn, prostitution, and the internet have definitely played a vital part in the f*uck it list in modern society. I believe that men and women nowadays with so much exposure to the internet adhere to beliefs and behaviors that in my opinion show a lack of respect for traditional lovemaking and magnanimous relationships. Our society is inundated with adulters, swingers, and men and women that don’t see the value in old fashion relationships built on friendship, love, connection, and trust. I am going to use Kim Kardashian as an example even though she is married with kids now she got famous based on a sex video. It still amazes me that her video went viral because people were so fascinated by watching other people have sex. I feel this video encouraged social justification for f*uck it lists. I feel that female demoralization is celebrated in this day and age by some men as a result of their fantasies that can only be fulfilled by multiple women performing sexual acts.
I find this comment to be somewhat… judgemental of a lifestyle you may have limited exposure in? It has been my experience that those who do not practice monogamy, and are in relationships, have a wealth of friendship, love, connection, and trust. In fact, being polyamorous in any form and not having those things is a recipe for disaster and you wouldn’t have a relationship for long. Having other relationships, and sleeping with other people, isn’t inherently mutually exclusive with having a wonderful relationship built on love and trust. Those who practice nonmonogamy don’t necessarily have a lack of respect for monogamy, they just found that it didn’t work for them. Considering divorce rates and infidelity rates are so high, I think it might be the case that monogamy doesn’t work for a lot of people in it’s current form.
So..I find this post interesting. I’m a pretty sex positive person, and I’m unsure if anyone doesn’t have a fuck it list in some form? I mean everyone has fantasies they’d liked to see realized, is that any different than having a fuck it list?
Also, I don’t see anything inherently demeaning about the forms of sex you listed. As a polyamorous person in the kink community, I have done most of the things listed…and there was no demeaning the women involved. So long as they are interested and agreed to the act too, it’s pretty wonderful to have fulfillment of both parties fantasies. Doing sex correctly involves respecting all parties in the act. It is my stance that there is not sex act that is inherently demeaning…but the individual people involved can make it so. So, while I think this article is describing a particular type of guy and a particular kind of sex, it came off as incredibly negative about alternative types of sex.
I also find it interesting that there’s a focus on men. I REALLY hate this argument because men seem to throw it out all the time…and it’s really likely I live in a bubble of some pretty powerful sex positive women, I emcee for a burlesque troupe that focuses on sex positivity, but I know many women who enjoy the same. I know a girl who kept a list and talked about it with pride about having over 50 people on it. I know many women who’d love to do all of the things mentioned in this post…and I don’t find anything wrong with that…I also don’t know any man who has professed having a fuck it list…so, at least in the context of my world, I found this post to be pretty off beat?
I think a lot of people are decoupling sex and exclusivity and shame. The effect that has is it opens up people to have experiences they have wished for, but never could. There are others who take advantage of this and abuse it…maybe those are who you’re talking about, but I have limited experience with those men. My experience with the poly community and the kink community is that respect of your partners is paramount…because it’s very difficult to trust someone with such things if you don’t feel like they respect you.
There are more and more people that are having open relationships nowadays and that’s not surprising to me. Our society is getting more and more open to accepting new ideas. I personally do not feel comfortable with the idea of an open relationship. I feel very lucky and thankful to have a partner that feels the same way that I do and believes in a monogamous relationship. I do not know anyone that is in an open relationship but I have heard about many relationships that are open or have more than two people that are part of the same relationship. I do however know many friends that have a f*ck list and would not care if they were in a relationship or not and they would take the chance to have sex with the person they wish. I do not see any problems with a f*ck list but I do not like the idea that people will take the chance to have sex despite being in a relationship. I think people need to respect their relationship and have respect for their problem.
I think taking a chance to fulfill your fuck it list while being in a relationship, and not having the permission of your partner, is pretty disrespectful. That being said, I agree, I don’t see much issue with people having a fuck it list… I’m confused why people have issue with people wanting to fulfill certain sexual fantasies. So long as it’s between consenting adults, I don’t understand the problem? In fact, I could see it as an interesting bonding idea to express you fuck it list with a partner and work on knocking them out together…much like two partners may try and accomplish a bucket list together.
I am in a polyamorous relationship, and while this is distinct from being open, I have experienced greater intimacy, support, love, and acceptance than any other relationship I’ve ever had of the monogamous sort. It has been my experience that this is true of most in open/poly relationships. I say this because many of the comments on this thread seem to think that multiple partners inherently means a lack of commitment. In fact, one person said they believe these lifestyles are likely to end in divorce/separation. I think it’s true that most relationships end in separation, monogamous or not. that aside, open/poly relationships, when done healthily, require a large amount of emotional intelligence, open communication, and trust. All of which are wonderful foundations to incredibly strong relationships…no matter the form.
I know you have an emotional side but some people can do that and still have other partners (From what I’ve heard). I don’t know how they accomplish it though.”
It seems like a lot of guys can do that anyway. You’ve heard of compartmentalize. Society or whatever, it seems like guys are able to do that better than women. I can do that, you kind of place feelings or thoughts aside or not aside but for other times and context. Prioritize what you want or focus on your feeling for specific topic or context. A guy simply want to just bang one woman, may care about her personality a little, but really it be the physical and just sex and the dude not seem too emotional or romantic. And it’s based on what he wanted that moment, the woman herself, how he felt about her or it was really just her physical features that were only thing great about her, thus sex on fore front. Can see another woman the next week and do a 360 and want an emotional relationship, crush hard on her, her personality be a huge deciding factor with the physical.
He’s affectionate, loving to her, and she conjures up these romantic, emotional feelings, because she had qualities that stuck out or a match to him in many ways and more than physical. Maybe he’s ready for something more at that time, but held it off because he wasn’t ready for the previous woman, which caused him to suppress his emotional feelings and push forward his lust feelings. It seems like guys are often split or like internal between their heart and small head. Both strong affects and some can be more on the fore front depending the woman and context of the situation. It can be that way for me, even though I’m very strong in feelings. I unfortunately have a big ego and let it control me sometimes too. That’s like almost polar opposites right.there. I’ve never played a girl or lied, but I’ve noticed ego can often make people have more selfish desires and thoughts vs the heart which is more selfless, and compassionate.
I’m glad you have so much insight into yourself. That’s always a positive thing.
I agree that men are better able to compartmentalize. With sex maybe that’s because men are taught that it’s always good whereas women are taught that they need to have emotional attachment. And most people, men and women, prefer sex with emotional attachment but when you are taught from a young age that that is the only way to go it’s harder to compartmentalize.
But me and also seem to i’m glad you have so much insight into yourself. That’s always a positive thing.
I agree that men are better able to compartmentalize. With sex maybe that’s because men are taught that it’s always good for us women are taught that they need to have emotional attachment. And most people, men and women, prefer sex with emotional attachment but when you’re taught from a young age that that is the only way to go it’s harder to compartmentalize.
But, men also seem to be able to compartmentalized and let go of the feelings that are bothering them, whereas women are more likely to ruminate. That might be because men are taught they shouldn’t have feelings. Each way of “doing emotion” has negatives and positives to it.
I’ve seen research suggesting that about half of Americans, both men and women, prefer multiple partners. So maybe you can find someone who wants an open marriage.”
Well you’re talking about people who want to be polygamous and others who want to be monogamous. Many guys have had non monogamous sex and then settled down and monagamous from there. Why do I have to have an open marriage. I do want to commit and be in a serious relationship, I just desire to have what others have had and sow oats first and then settle down. I have it planned out, it’s annoying if told you shouldn’t or can when others have an enjoyed it. I actually sounds ideal, have some fun and then get serious. One transitions well to the other.
Well your comments confuse me. I thought you would like an open relationship. But what you say here makes sense.
No, I want to do what a lot of guys have done or seemingly done. Sowed their oats , then settled down. I’m not skipping steps, I’m unfortunately very stubborn about that. You’ve seen me explain my romantic, emotional side which is what I’d want with monogamy.
I know you have an emotional side but some people can do that and still have other partners (From what I’ve heard). I don’t know how they accomplish it though.
The idea of men having a f’ck it list is a bit gross but honestly very believable but I think both men and women have a list but men are simply more open about it. Social media has certainly played a part in these lists everyone is way more open than they were a few years ago about there sexuality. Pornographic videos and photos are a lot more easier to come by. Not only that but people often share there stories online. The main problem I see with the list is that men are objectifying there sexual partners. Simply seeing them as a new check mark on there f’uck it list. I do think that our president has played a role in this new way to objectify women, he has been openly objectified women on national television countless times. Rating us based on our looks not intelligence simply treating women as things he can use for hos own personal pleasure much like the list.
And not all men. Or all women.
I definitely believe some men have a f*ck it list, but not all men. Those that do must have high expectations for their partner. It must be difficult to create such a list! It’s ironic because I had a conversation about this topic with a couple friends over the past weekend. I believe expectations such as threesomes or open relationships will eventually lead to breaking up or even divorce. It would seem odd for a women to ask a guy for a threesome but why is it okay for men to do so? It relates to what men and women can or cannot do. For example, some men believe their wife should stay home with the kids doing chores. While, the men go to work and provide for their family. It’s sad to see women like my mom develop this mindset because of the era she grew up in. Currently, the divorce and single parent rate is extremely high. I believe these f*ck it lists are partially accountable for broken homes. Expectations are off the chart on what’s hot or what’s not. Women are constantly belittled and criticized on their appearance, weight, and how we dress. If you don’t dress cute enough your ugly. We seriously are judged for everything we do. Even for speaking up about our opinions. It’s disgusting to see what this generation has come to. I’ve seen men devour women by staring at them like a piece of “snack”. Specially, when we wears dresses or shorts. It’s really sad how men really see us as objects. We are all beautiful human beings whom deserve to be respected equally.
As divorce rates are at an all-time high at around 40%, the need for meaningful relationships something many Americans strive for. One of the possible reasons for the decline in meaningful relationships is the growing culture of casual sex. Before the creation of contraceptives, people were not able to have sex as often as people are today. Contraceptives themselves are not bad, but because of the availability of it and because the costs of contraceptives are very low, people are able to have sex now more than ever. Dating websites have evolved into websites that are used to have sex with people rather than creating long-term relationships. These interactions among people who just want to have sex rather than talk grow more and more common so people become used to it. As people become used to casual sex because of its speed and lack of communication, people will naturally not have meaningful sex as often.
“Hey guys, I have a question that I’ve been thinking for my entire life”. I asked my American friends after drinking in a bar. “Since I just came to US and I don’t know how people usually think about relationships here, so, can you guys have sex with a girl whom you don’t love?”. Three friends out of three simultaneously answered. “Hey, dude, it’s natural and it is what it is and what it should be!”
Before I came to US last March, I’ve never been to outside of Korea and when I was younger, my friends used to put much more value on relationships and we enjoyed it. But, around the time when I entered high school, some of my friends started to have sex with girls without dating and even without knowing who the girl is. They were reluctant to reveal their heroic exploits (having sex at young age with girls who they don’t love) in public area, thought, because it wasn’t socially or ethically allowed back then. I said, “I don’t want to have sex with a girl whom I don’t love because if I do, I could forget how to put value on relationship with my loved one”. My friends just kept blaming me and I gave up on arguing. Moreover, as time went on, people started not to care about revealing who they had sex with last night. Many of my friends were like, “Hey, I want to have sex tonight. Let’s go to a bar and hook up with girls”. Back then, I thought it would not happen but my friends successfully made it for that night. I realized that many girls also enjoy hooking up with guys for one night. That’s why I asked my American friends what they think about what I’ve been experiencing. Surprisingly enough, they were just like my friends in Korea.
Many of my friends said, “You should meet as many girls as possible to get experienced for building up relationships and you should have sex as much as possible because that’s what you can enjoy before you get married”. I know what my friends meant but like I mentioned above, too many people seem to be forgetting how to put value on relationships. Later, most of them started to show off what kinds of sex they had last night (I know this sounds bad.. but sometimes or often, it is just a part of guys conversation.. I think). Most of my friends already seem to have made their own f*ck-it lists. I felt they often treat some girls like an object to satisfy themselves for the night. For these reasons and with my not-man-like personality, I agree that casual sex can block you from finding meaningful sex. Personally, I REALLY don’t know why this phenomenon is happening. By getting educated and talking to more people to share thoughts, I wish I could figure out so that I can find a way to live a life which is filled with meanings both for myself and my partner.
Right now for people your age in college (but not high school where there is still a double standard) it’s common for both men and women to engage in hookup culture where people have sex with people they barely know. The problem is that about half of Americans seem to like a variety of partners (Although hardly anyone actually likes hook up culture because most people prefer sex with some sort of emotion, even if it is serial monogamy) and about half seem to prefer more monogamous relationships. But everyone gets pressured to do hookup culture.
I think you should do whatever feels authentic to you, and so should everyone else.
And I think from guy conversations, that’s why so many boys and men feel they have missed out if they haven’t been with many girls. Sowing one’s oats. It can suck, because if you don’t do so, you could come across a great girl, but instead of being happy and that being awesome and ready to commit. A guy can be very conflicted. And why it seems that while it seems wrong as far as promoting casual sex and sowing one’s oats. I’ve seen plenty of dudes who did sow their oats, and then are married and seem happily married and like able to compartmentalize. It’s not that they were never interested in a relationship, but they desired sex like most guys, but were able to go to the next chapter from there. It’s easier to commit when your ego and lustful curiosities have been satisfied and gotten out of the way or out of your system so you can now push that side of you out of the way.
And get that emotional part that you’ve always wanted in the forefront since the horny part that fogged your mind up, got in the way. Last think you want when meeting your potential life long partner is to be with them for years and should be ready to marry them, but get cold feet, because of having a grass in greener syndrome because you didn’t sow your oats. I don’t ever want to have that come up, so I’m trying to sow my oats, because when I meet someone great, I don’t want any second guesses and want to be full on ready to commit. I get it also to what that person’s friends said. It’s crude and not the best view to have, but when you’re married and you know want to be faithful for like. Obviously it’s so much more than sex and shouldn’t be, it should be many emotional things and love. But you are having sex with the same person, same body for the rest of your life from that point. So like if you’re a visual person, I can see how one would want to have had sex with different people, because everybody is built differently. And that can go for women too, though women feel that way less because less visual than men. I personally feel women have less reason to feel that way too, because men have less variety in their bodies than women do. Theres a build difference, but women actually have different body shapes, men are just skinny, chubby or muscular or in between, but women can have same skinnyness or not skinny, but different bodies as a result because of their structure and curves and sizes within that.
Thanks for your thoughts on this.
I wonder how much of this is natural and how much is socialized: man expecting two so they’re wild oats and women not so much. Especially until recently.
I’ve seen research suggesting that about half of Americans, both men and women, prefer multiple partners. So maybe you can find someone who wants an open marriage.
I thought that this blog was very interesting. However, I believe that all men are not like this. Although there are men who see sex as just “f*cking,” there are plenty of men in the world who share a tight bond with a female, and express their love in sex. Aside from men, there are also some females that could as well have a f*ck it list. Although men have been seen to treat females like objects and abuse them, it does not mean that females are not capable of doing the same to men. I do agree that sex is becoming less meaningful as time goes on, and especially recently with how women are coming out with their stories of abuse. In my personal experience I have seen a numerous amount of males who are with a girl just to fulfill their f*ck it list, but it is the woman’s responsibility to know who these men are and to stay away from them. I have also met very genuine men who have the desire of making their girl happy, and although they might have a list of what they would like from her, he knows his boundaries and respects them. I hope that people begin to realize that meaningful sex is much better than casual sex.
I agree. Not all men.
Sex is supposed to be not only be a physical sensation, but a spiritual sensation as well. You are not only satisfy your partner physically, but also satisfy them emotionally. Many religious texts such as the Quran say that sex cannot be plainly the action of satisfying one’s physical needs. In the current age, many men have access to pornography, media and songs that describe women as purely a sex object. This view of women being seen as sexual objects rather than people is called sexualization and it can have damaging effects. Apps such as tinder allow men and women to have sexual intercourse without having the two people truly connecting. One who has become infatuated with the sexualization in the world would think to themselves, “Why would I go through all this extra effort that doesn’t satisfy me now when I can just perform sex without saying or doing anything else”. Pornographic sites show people having sex without talking to one another and songs like “I love it” by Kanye West, portray women as just sexual beings. This negative influence along with the availability of sex causes men to get too used to casual sex rather than meaningful sex and ultimately causes an emotional disconnect between two partners.
I believe if you posed the question to men if about a fuck it lists you would probably get a lot that would say yes (you probably need to rephrase it). Instant access to essentially a wild west of porn that caters to basically any vice no matter how contentious has reshaped are perception of sex. We have been re-wired to only see what we want to see out of sex whether that is what we actually want out of a relationship is questionable (which tends to reflect the sex negative). It’s funny to me as a man of my generation hearing older men talk about the time, they found porn in the woods because it seems innocent. While subject matter (well not all of it) has not changed, the access to instant gratification over a healthy notion of sex has changed. In the past I might have said that mild regulation of the sex industry combined with mass access to sexual education might be a way to stem the tide of fuck it lists. The former seems nightmarish with the landscape of American politics currently and the latter an equal impossibility.
This idea of men having a sex list, like a bucket list, is very disgusting and yet sadly true. Lately, there are many books and TV shows and movies and even real life situation, where men are manipulating women into fulfilling something on their list, and then afterwards, just forgetting about them. This is just morally unacceptable, while the men are portrayed as a cool player, a popular dude, while the women are called sluts, whores, and other nasty words. How can we allow something like this to occur in our modern day society. Another thing is that, in these stories, the women is always portrayed as weak, dependent and ultimately the one who is shown to be the cause for that. Why is it in our society, we praise women for being strong and courageous, but in these stories, there are still many who showcase women to be not the victims, but the cause for it. Another point addressed, is that now a days, many young men are going to sites of pornography, instead of trying to find another companion, this should be just unaccepted in our society, us as human beings should not rely on the internet to fill our needs, it is just unhealthy for us, instead the more healthier option is to go out and look for a partner, not just for sexual activities, but to have someone to go along with you in your journey through life.
First of all, I think that dating is becoming ever more of a “to each their own” part of life that any of us would care to admit and this does absolutely have all kinds of ramifications. I am somebody that might be able to speak to some kinds of those ramifications. After leaving high school and moving out into the world (mostly outside the US,) I’ve only had 2 relationships and have spent the rest of the time fully immersed in the international millennial hook-up culture. I also will admit that I probably watched more than a healthy dose of pornography. I was rather successful in that hookup culture and sex lost every sense of intimacy. Now, in the second of those two relationships, on the day of our 6-month anniversary, I am working as hard as I can to make sex an intimate thing again. That being said, I love this woman more than I have ever loved anyone or anything and express it, mostly, asexually. I believe that you are right, Tinder and Bumble and binge drinking and pornography are completely changing the dating landscape. But, I think that it is past the point of no return and we will have a future of redefining intimacy to look forward to.
Very interesting blog post. I personally believe that dating during this age in time is completely different than dating was a few years ago. Now a days many things have been normalized for both men and women because of the way the internet heavily influences peoples opinions/decisions. Before social media became such an important part of peoples life’s pornography was RARELY spoken about, almost as if it was a sin. Especially when Women watched it. Ultimately at the end of the day (not all) both men AND women watch pornogrpahy and have created their own “fantasies” that could also be known as a “buck it list” or “fu*k it list”. I think the movie “Our Souls At Night” is a perfect example of how not all couples are sexually active but still have an extremely intement relationship. Once again, because of the way social media glorifies sex many people believe that if you “sex life” isn’t regular the relationship is spoiled. In the movie it is portrayed to ultimately be the woman’s decision for not having a sex life rather than taking into consideration all the other factors. While equality between men and woman are being improved there’s always the little things that still separate both genders.
My opinion on this bucket and f@#$it lists seems to be ambiguous and lacking facts? What comes to mind is two types, a feminist and a “macho man” both, lacking respect for either one. I had the opportunity to gather information from both, men and women-mostly all friends, this helped me understand both point of views on this matter.
Most of the men agreed they’re visual creatures who enjoy gawking at women and it might come off as disrespectful and demeaning towards women, making men “perverts”. These men are stimulated by the view and this can cause an urge or impulsiveness to fulfill the stimulation because men need to conquer to feed their ego. Same goes with women! When women have an ambition, are career driven, strongly opinionated and challenging towards men, they’re considered “men haters” “crazy feminist”. Women fill motivated, proud and valued when they achieve outside of the house.
Because of traditional gender roles it’s caused conflict and disrespect among men and women choices. Men shouldn’t feel threaten by a strong women and women shouldn’t have to prove themselves to men. Men and Women are NO different when using negative language to voice their opinions about each other. Rather it’s a bucket list or fu%k it lists, men and women can have the same list but one will be judged more because of the reputation the gender has been stereotyped into.
I agree and don’t agree. I agree that there are probably a lot of men that have a f*ck it list, but there are also a lot that don’t. It does seem at times like there are more that do than more that don’t. I work in a kitchen and have been in the restaurant business for almost 25 years, so in my experience, most of the men I came in contact with openly discussed or were observed trying to fulfill their f*ck it lists. It is quite nauseating. I also know some not so savory girls with lists of their own.There are men out there who aren’t trying to conquer the world in bed, but I feel there are not as many of them…or, to be honest, women aren’t giving them a chance because the guys are not as attractive as we’d like…I think some men really do see women as objects for sexual use and possibly abuse, which is sad and gross. I still am shocked Trump was elected to the presidency. My boss voted for him and had/has nothing but good things to say about him…still…he defends the allegations and says they’re false! OMG! My boss is also what would be considered not a catch. I feel many men, like my boss are living out their fantasys through Trump. They see him as the alpha they are not. Trump doesn’t let people bully them. Certain men (not all) like that about Trump, because they may have been (or are currently being) bullied or not popular and they like that Trump pushes people out of the way, with the guise that he won’t let people push us Americans around, or that he will stand up for us. Who is this us he is talking about, because he seems like a big bully to me.
I have enjoyed both casual and ‘meaningful’ sex, although I hate to use that word since really good casual sex feels great and feels quite meaningful at the time. I am not the “making love” type, those words give me the heebie jeebies and they’re forbidden at my house, where we f**k, and if we’re tired, we just have sex. Which doesn’t mean I don’t have a deep and loving connection with my partner.
I think if you’re in a committed, not to mention monogamous, relationship with someone, an F list is disrespectful. Fantasies should be shared with partners and whatever both agree on is fair game. But having a list of demands, or specific, performative expectations is troublesome as far as consent goes, and doesn’t feel loving, or even very sexy.
Thanks for adding your perspective to this.
As I have been saying to you, there are LOTS of women out here like Joy. More than you really think. Such women obviously do NOT suffer from sexual repression.
Well my belief about how women and men feel is based on data that show that basically half of both women and men prefer many partners and about half of women and men prefer monogamy.
Data also shows that nearly half of American women experience major sexual dysfunctions like no to low interest in sex, painful sex, difficulty well my belief about how women and men feel is based on data that show that basically half of both women and men prefer many partners and about half of women and men prefer monogamy.
Data also shows that nearly half of American women experience major sexual dysfunctions like no to low interest in sex, painful sex, difficulty with orgasm. I have had a great deal of experience living in this category.
That’s not natural. And my own experience is not natural. I was much more interested in sexuality at age 10 then at age 25. There is something wrong with that.
And I know that my lack of interest came when I felt guilty because of my church, my friends, my mom. I damped down every sexual urge I had until it went away. I have students who have written about the same phenomenon. I have seen writings from other women who talk about the same phenomenon. I written about this all on my blog.
Even among women who enjoy sex a large percentage of them need a vibrator. That’s also not natural.
So why is it that half of American women experience major sexual dysfunctions and half don’t (they can have an orgasm, enjoy sex, but many of them still need a vibrator — not natural and also a sign of sexual dysfunction )?
We are not socially determined by our society. We are all a mix of the culture we live in, the interactions we have, and the personality we are born with. So someone could grow up in the culture we live in which slut-shames girls but maybe she has a personality that is less affected by that, maybe she has parents who are more sex-positive.
In my case Not only did I have a society that slut-shames girls, not only did I grow up in a church that taught us we would go to hell if we were sexual, and most of my friends were from my church, and so was my mom. I also had a personality that strives to be a good girl. So I took it all to heart. I had also a internalized the beauty standard and felt that I came up short, which was a huge distraction. Put it all together and I ended up with virtually no interest in sex.
Women who feel good about their bodies are less likely to be affected negatively. But large numbers of women do feel bad about their bodies. Some of my students say that they deal with it OK because their boyfriends tell them they are beautiful and so that helps them. Others say their boyfriends tell them they’re beautiful but they don’t know if they are just saying that so there still distracted.
Anyway, you look behind the root cause of all of this: both slut-shaming women and Objectification and patriarchy lies behind it. I will be writing more about how, But in a nutshell, patriarchal society is that passed the name through the male, past property through the male, and have male-headed clans need to know who daddy is. So you restrict women sexuality but not men’s. You stone women to death but not men. You slut-shame women in high school but not men. You also reduce women to their body parts and judge them away on their sexual allure.
I’ve never heard of such men…maybe I have kept healthy company. I just wish the relations mean to people what they (ideally) stand for.
I’m glad that a number of men have shared that they find the phenomenon unrelatable. It’s not everyone. Whereas some women seem interested in engaging just f*ing too.
Hopefully the f*ers will find each other and so will the love makers.
“Hopefully the f*ers will find each other and so will the love makers.”
Well, what is truly ironic about the f**%#ers is that they really do not want one another when it comes to relationships. They only desire one another for casual sex, only.
As I have written on many occasions: promiscuous men do not want promiscuous women as their girlfriend. They only want such women strictly for sex. The same goes for promiscuous women. . Promiscuous women eschew promiscuous men for relationships. You would think they would “naturally” be made for one another.
I’d like to see some data on that. I wouldn’t be surprised if people have a double standard for themselves and others. And I know that open marriages are often difficult because of the jealousy issue — even where both partners subscribe to the idea.
What’s wrong with a sex bucket list as long as men aren’t asking women to do things they don’t want like in porn such as anal sex or stuff?
Maybe she will write in and say. I think her concern is that from what she’s heard things are changing too much in the direction she described. Some women might have their own F*ck it lists too, But one would hope that there are many ways of having a relationship that are not objectifying.
Because of social media, things are more open and known. But I think there’s always been sex bucket lists. I believe there are plenty of women who have them too, but in different ways. Guys are more about hot women and different women and sex stuff like that and such. But women have things I believe they’ve wanted to try sexually, that they’d hope to do. They are called “fantasies” basically. To me a sex bucket list is fantasy but what a person wants to do in real life instead of just having it in their thoghts. Why does wanting a relationship have to always be seen as the virtuous desire over others? Like that’s better than wanting casual sex.
A person wanting just a relationship might not necessarily be because of supposed emotional, high character reasons. But many people who are clingy or can’t stand being alone so have to have a companion and want someone long term for such reasons or because they feel they should be married by so and so time. And also perhaps for some, because they aren’t really thart visual, sexual or don’t have a high sex drive. So it’s easier for the emotion to be on the forefront and not see the appeal or care for casual sex, but not because of higher maturity reasons, but aren’t visual, thus not as sex driven. If a person has a high sex drive and visual, it’s easier to understand how they could desire casual sex at times or put more emphasis on sex or even sex bucket lists. You’re more energized if you are visual and have a high sex drive and as a result, more lusty and hornier based on physical qualities.
First, a survey showed that about half of Americans, both women and men, prefer multiple partners and the other half – Again pretty much equal numbers of women and men, prefer monogamy.
Scientists can see how that could work for evolutionary purposes on each side. You will probably have more children if you sleep around but the children will be more likely to survive if both parents are there to take care of them.
So I don’t think that one side needs to put the other down. If it’s in your genes, it’s in your genes. I just hope that the monogamous find each other and the polyamorous find each other. And that if you are polyamorous you make sure to care for any children that are yours, which I understand is common in polyamorous relationships these days.
Otherwise, I don’t know that a f*ck it list is horrible so long as no one is left feeling used and abused. And I think that Pamela’s concern was that one side of that equation might be taking over the society. But maybe they are just the louder side.
“But one would hope that there are many ways of having a relationship that are not objectifying.”
Just because you have a f**^k list does not equate to objectification.
There are men and women alike who engage in non-relationship sex (casual/f*$k buddy). Women are more likely to have f%&k buddies than men.
Sure. One woman wrote on this blog about how in her relationship it’s a f*ck they want, not lovemaking. But no one is getting hurt. And for that reason I don’t call it objectifying sex.
Objectification happens when other’s feelings don’t matter. They are just seen as objects to be used. Which is what Pamela seems to be describing. “OK I can check that off my list. Who cares how you feel.“
I wonder where we are heading! Of course, there are men with an F it list but fortunately, there are also men who still believe in a healthy relationship and friendship. We can just hope that their number keeps increasing…
Yes, I agree!
Lots of men I know have a bucket list (including myself) and they do NOT revolve around sex or even women.
When it comes to relationships (that are not casual), men tend to value a woman’s sexual companionship far greater than women. It is not that we do not value non sexual companionship. I just think it is probably 60/40 or maybe even 50/50. This is just who we are as men. Women need to understand this and accept it. Stop badgering us for who we are as men.
Women, when it comes to relationships, tend to value a man’s non-sexual companionship more so than the sexual companionship. Surveys and studies reveal that most women do NOT even have sex in the top 5 things they want or desire or feel important in a relationship. Obviously if men think differently, this is going to cause a problem.
The hypocrisy of this is that women do value sexual companionship with men who they do NOT want relationships. But then turn around and try to impose a largely non-sexual companionship on the men whom they want a long term relationship. This is just plain silly. The only way this will work is if the said man allows himself to be emasculated. Just what man wants this?
A suggestion for women: How about treating both groups of men the same in terms of sexual desirability? After all, you claim you want “equality.” Right?
The idea that we men can ONLY make “fucklists” as opposed to bucket lists is just plain asinine.
I am so tired of reading these pieces online written largely by women and their male feminist knuckleheads berating men for who we are as men. These pieces really echo misandry.
PS: What about all the women out here who have their own fucklists? I guess they have a free pass as usual.
Well, she didn’t say all men. I read her a piece as saying that this behavior seem to be increasingly common. Not that all men do it.
And she was asking men to give their opinions about all of this. And I will have to say that I think your opinion is quite thoughtful, although it would be easy for people to read both Pamela’s post and your comment as meaning “all women” or “all men.”
What’s interesting to me is seeing how all of our limited experiences create a sense of male or female behavior as being “everyone” of that sex. And how what is described by both of you doesn’t fit my experience. But it must be out there on some level because people are experiencing it.
It seems to me that you are around the wrong type of guys. I wouldn’t even want to be around those types of guys.
I think you are right.
But she’s also asking men their thoughts on this. So I am sure she will appreciate yours.
I always think it’s kind of odd that when women (well… feminists to be precise) discover something about “men”, their first thought is not to take in knowledge about reality, using it like a scientist to better mold their understanding of reality. No, instead their first thought is to compare reality to their utopia, and assume any differences are due to there being something wrong with men. This is of course couched in the language of shaming. So if men have some sexual fantasy, that is to be interpreted as “seeing women as objects for sexual use”. Never mind that many many women share the exact same fantasies. Nobody, or at least not feminists ever shame women for having the wrong fantasies. No, that’s empowering when women do it.
Yes, I would say men have what you call a f*ckit list. Here’s another little secret for you. When they are f*cking you, they are not thinking about you. They are thinking about f*cking your neighbour in an orgy with his former school teacher, and some Hollywood star, in some weird bondage scene. Why? 1) because men have good visual imagination and therefore 2) he can, so why not, 3) after he’s done it with you 20+ times, it’s just not that exciting anymore.
At some point in your relationship your man will become aware that at least some of these fantasies are achievable. And especially if the relationship sex is less than wonderful, then he’ll go and try to fulfill that fantasy. It’s just something he’s compelled to do. After running that scene in his head for the 50th time, he wants to… No he has to.. try it for real. Doesn’t mean he doesn’t love you.
If at this point you can’t accept it, or even support it, that’s where the relationship dies. For swinging couples it’s no harm done because there was no secrecy. The tighter you want to hold him to stop him fulfilling his list, the more likely you will lose him. Do you want to keep your man in reality or lose him in utopian feminist thinking?
What’s interesting to me is that I just approved two comments written by men and that how differently people can see things.
I’m not sure why you said that when a man is having sex with a woman he is really thinking about other women. I’m sure that does happen, but surely not all the time. And maybe it depends on the whether it is F*ck it sex or bonded sex. The latter is a meeting of souls and more what Pamela is seeking as opposed to disliking the type of sex you describe, and that she describes in this post.