Sex Is The Key

Here’s one man’s perspective on female and male sexuality. What do you think?

About BroadBlogs

I have a Ph.D. from UCLA in sociology (emphasis: gender, social psych). I currently teach sociology and women's studies at Foothill College in Los Altos Hills, CA. I have also lectured at San Jose State. And I have blogged for Feminispire, Ms. Magazine, The Good Men Project and Daily Kos. Also been picked up by The Alternet.

Posted on August 18, 2014, in women. Bookmark the permalink. 51 Comments.

  1. “Nevertheless, a key that opens many locks is called a master key, a lock that can be opened by many keys is considered a bad lock.”

    Not sure if that ending statement was simply stating the way things are right now or whether he was confirming that he thought that way as well. I hope the former because if it’s the latter, he’s just perpetuating the very attitude he’s complaining about.

    Women are not locks, or gatekeepers, virginity is not a thing to be given away or “lost,” and sex is not something to be “given up” by women. That’s why I don’t use those phrases anymore – if you want sex, have sex (male or female). If you don’t want sex, then don’t do it.

    • Well, he prefaces with this:

      “Being labelled as a male slag or man whore, is a badge of pride for most men. I am convinced that this is perhaps one of the biggest factors as to why girls don’t treat sex as freely as men do. It’s a shame that women are not as free as they could be.”

      And this

      “Men and women need to make a truce. For too long has the guilt of enjoying sex hung over women. They need to embrace it, be proud and enjoy it. I think that in time they will discover an aspect of themselves that will set them free from the male dominance, that plagues them.”

      So I suspect he’s mourning the “as is-ness” of the predicament.

  2. As a man, I pretty much feel the same way as the author.

    Women (American women) are extremely discriminating in whom they have sex with. I do not mean this in a “good” way. Everything is based on attraction. The guy could be a bum living in a homeless shelter….but, if he is viewed as attractive many women will have sex with him. Also, the men women consort with for FWB, Flings, LTR or whatever other purposes are all different. The one fundamental truth remains: if you are a husband then you are going to get the worst of the deal. Sex with your wife is going to be hard to get on a regular basis.

    As the author noted, a single and good looking man usually has enjoyed a lot of sex with a lot of different women. What this really says is many women are having sex with the same single good looking men. It’s like the 20/80 rule. But, I think it is closer to maybe 30/70…Most men do not share the ease of sex as women. Hence, when it comes to dating and sex, women clearly enjoy female privilege. Just a fact. What this has done to many men, myself included, is we have decided to simply opt out.

    I know women hate when men such as myself assert this. But, if as a woman you could only stand back and observe what you do, then it would be self evident. Even dating sites such as OK Cupid and Match.com have done research and surveys that show a small percentage of men are contacted by a majority of women for dates. This where men outnumber women by 3 to 1! Such is life

    After nearly 15 plus years in a sexless marriage, little sexual experience before marriage (two other women), and some casual sex (two partners) after marriage, I concluded it was best for me to opt out. I discovered I had no desire for casual sex. I am not a womanizer or man whore so that is not an option.

    Women really do like me! Not all of course. Nor do they all want to have sex with me. I like most women too. I enjoy their company, their views on life, and their intellect, and perspectives. Sex feels great and is pleasurable. I love sex with women. However, I must have a connection. That is critical to me. I found women to be too unreliable as partners. I want lots of sex but with just one woman. I guess I just never found the right one.

    When we look at the world at large, the 5 countries where the majority of women AND men are sexually satisfied we find they are: Italy, France, Spain, Brasil, and ? (cant remember). What the study showed was that nearly 75% of men and women in those countries were satisfied with their sex lives. America was 18th and under 50%. What is wrong here?

    So, I agree that we men love sex. But, so do women here in America too. It’s just that here in America, women seem to be overly selective in whom they desire to have sex with compared to women in France, Spain, Italy, Brasil….Here in America most men are viewed as unattractive. That might explain the high number of men who are involuntarily celibate as well as the growth in porn and prostitution. Don’t know.

    Anyhow, just my opinion.

    • The problem is rooted in women’s sexual repression.

      I’ll send more links shortly. And I’ll write on this more, too.

    • That was kind of a broad statement. If my husband wants to have sex we have sex. If I want to have sex we have sex. I really like having sex with him.
      For a very long time that was not so. I had/have some issues from the past that made sex a terrifying experience for me. Once my drs and I found the right cocktail of medication life has turned around and I want to have sex as much as possible before I die.
      He is the only person I have ever had sex with (unless you count my abusers) so I really don’t know how I would do in another sexual relationship. I don’t even know if I am capable of casual sex. Probably not.
      I liked the article. I’m not sure if I agree with everything, but it was a pretty decent look at the problems women face in being out on the sexual market.

      • Thanks for sharing.

        I agree that it’s overly broad. But it seems to largely reflect what is typical.

      • “That was kind of a broad statement. If my husband wants to have sex we have sex. If I want to have sex we have sex. I really like having sex with him.”

        Well, that is truly great to hear from a married woman. I certainly think you are in a minority of such women. My ex wife also said she loved having sex with me as well. But, our marriage was sexless for over 15 years. Obviously, she was not being truthful.

        There is such an over emphasis on female sexuality and all the negatives that can go along with an openly sexual woman. Yes, these are real issues that women face.

        However, MOST men face the opposite issue : a lack of sex. Women tend to believe that most men have the same opportunities as they do for sex. It simply is NOT true. Yes, it does take two to tango. But, often women are doing the tango with a lot of the same men!!!!

        I think the author is simply saying to women, “Just Do It!!!!” Young women who have embraced the hookup culture are clearly doing it. The long-term emotional consequences are unknown.

        One thing I have observed with many young people and the hookup culture is the use of alcohol during these hookups. It would appear, though I am not sure, that a lot of young women must be intoxicated to go through with these hookups. Also, very few report experiencing sexual satisfaction. Which begs the question: why do it?

      • I think that alcohol is used to relax. Women need to be relaxed to enjoy sex. I think the reason I enjoy sex so much with my husband have to do with several things.

        1. I feel safe around him.
        2. Medication relieves my fear (PTSD).
        3. Maybe my autism plays a role
        4. I KNOW that he really likes me for who and what I am. Bizarre, but there is no accounting for taste.
        5. He is my best friend and I REALLY like him and accept him for who and what he is.
        6. I see sex for the ridiculous and funny thing it is.

        We were both each other’s first sexual partners. My husband was 31 and I was 24/5. I doubt that matters at all and we sure were clumsy to begin with. Who knows if my sons will ever experience sex with another person. If they don’t they are going to have to realize that either they will have to buy it (but you don’t get a relationship that way) or find a way to be happy without a sexual partner. I hope they get to have lots of sex with someone, but life guarantees nothing.

      • Safety, love, an ability to focus on sex and not distracting thoughts (autism-ish?). Thanks for your thoughts. Might help others.

      • One of my brothers went through much the same as you. He thought they had married because they loved each other. Thankfully, they split up. Some time later he re-married and NOW he is having the time of his life.

      • Thank God for second chances.

    • “Everything is based on attraction. The guy could be a bum living in a homeless shelter….but, if he is viewed as attractive many women will have sex with him.”

      What is wrong with that? Men have always based who they want to have sex with on how physically attractive the woman is so why do you want to make women feel guilty for the same thing? A man you’re attracted to would mean you’re going to have better sex with him because it would make that woman more aroused. So a sexy bum would be a better lay than a wealthy fat smelly dude.

      “if you are a husband then you are going to get the worst of the deal. Sex with your wife is going to be hard to get on a regular basis.”

      There have actually been studies that show that married people more sex than single people. So I don’t know how accurate your statement is but either way you need to think about why you see sex as something you “get” from your wife. How about see it as an activity both mutually take part in and if one becomes less interested then figure out why that may be. If sex isn’t happening then see it as a failure on both your part not one person and take equal responsibility.

      “Hence, when it comes to dating and sex, women clearly enjoy female privilege. Just a fact. What this has done to many men, myself included, is we have decided to simply opt out.”

      Umm what you’re talking about is privilege enjoyed by good looking people. Men are actually luckier when it comes to this. For a woman to get attention you have to be good looking and still that only lasts while you’re considered “youthful.” For a man you can either be good looking or you can be rich or talented. Men are admired for a lot more qualities than women, who are only valued for their physical appearance. Have you thought about what this has done to many women?

      You are right about one thing. Women are very selective about who they have sex with here but that’s not because of the reasoning you assumed. Women are selective because they get judged negatively for having sex purely for their enjoyment. So many women have to say no to sex when they want it because that one lay could mean being labeled a slut for a lifetime. So the solution is for women to have sex with who they want to and when they want to, not to have sex with whoever wants to have sex with them like you seem to suggest.

      • Hina’s got some thoughtful points.

        That said, given that you don’t have an open relationship that both of you agreed to, I think your wife’s behavior was completely wrong. And it’s also unusual for a woman to be in a “monogamous relationship” yet have a lot of affairs, so she is not typical. In your case, Huggy, she may have a psychological issue she needs to deal with.

        Mostly I was trying to say that I would not paint all women with the same brush of her behavior.

        And I also think that both men and women put too much emphasis on looks. People get down on themselves when they think they aren’t attractive. It’s important to point out that different cultures have different ideas about what’s attractive. And often what is attractive about someone lies in their “flaws.”

        More importantly, looks are superficial. Some of the most amazing people are not all that good-looking. And some of the happiest, most amazing couples I know are people who no one would consider very attractive by our cultural standards.

      • “Men have always based who they want to have sex with on how physically attractive the woman is so why do you want to make women feel guilty for the same thing?”

        Hina, you are simply being disingenuous here. Men do not have as many options as women when it comes to sex. Hence, we tend NOT to be a selective. Why do you think men are so into porn and prostitutes? If sex were easy to come by for most men, would there really be a need for prostitutes?

        As for women and whom they wish to have sex, it is their business, period. The fundamental fact remains: women categorize men….men for sex, men for friendship, men for emotional support, men for long term relationships……This is why I think female sexuality is far more complicated than male sexuality.

        Also, there is a large body of research (done largely by women) that clearly evidence that monogamy is a libido killer for a lot of women. Men such as myself have experienced this oh so painfully first hand. If so, then why would women want to impose this kind of misery on their long term partners? Are women oblivious to this fact?

        Lastly, I do have one question for you: Why are women so obsessed with tall men? On average men ARE already taller than women. Yet, women continue to place a huge premium on tall men. Tall men, like good looking men, are viewed as far sexier than men of average height. I cannot quite understand this, along with a lot of other things about women. Just asking….

      • Huggy Bear,

        “why do you think men are so into porn and prostitutes? If sex were easy to come by for most men, would there really be a need for prostitutes?”

        An International research project, that spanned over 6 countries, seeking to uncover the reality about men who buy sex discovered, over half the men were married or in a relationship with a woman. Also many men in relationships with women continue to watch porn as well. So the reasoning for why men do this isn’t exactly what you are thinking. This issues is much more complex. I will like to add prostitution and porn is a service and product made by men for men.

        “The fundamental fact remains: women categorize men….men for sex, men for friendship, men for emotional support, men for long term relationships……This is why I think female sexuality is far more complicated than male sexuality.”

        I don’t think men are any different in this regard. Men and women both do this until they find someone who can fill all those needs, unfortunately some people never find that person. Also it’s not just women’s relationships with men or men’s relationship with women it’s also women’s friendships with other women and men’s friendships with other men. I’ve had men in my life who I was friends with and didn’t want to be romantically involved, I also had men who I had sex with but couldn’t be good friends with because other than sexual compatibility we didn’t have much else in common. I’ve also had girl friends who are their for emotional support, who I go to for advice and I have had girl friends who I party with and go out with. Then I have some friends of both genders, who i’m very good friends with and in them i can find many of those things listed above in one person. There’s only one person I’ve met who can play every single one of those roles for me and that person is now my fiancé. He’s my best friend, he provides emotional support, he’s my favorite person to drink and party with, he’s my workout buddy, he’s my shopping buddy, he also gives me butterflies as if he was my first crush and we have the best sex life. Other than him there’s no one person who can be all those things compatible with my personality and he feels the same way.

        ” there is a large body of research (done largely by women) that clearly evidence that monogamy is a libido killer for a lot of women.”

        I majored in sociology and I can’t say I’ve ever heard of this. I also couldn’t find much about this on google search either.

        To answer your final question, it’s just a standard by society. It’s not just women either, men also perceive tall men better than short. In some cultures height for women is also given great importance. I’m south asian and i’ve heard my parents and other people of punjabi community discuss height of women and taller women are seen as more attractive than short women. They also view light skin as better/sexier than dark skin. In our culture skinny women are considered better than bigger women. It’s just societal standards. Are they ever fair? No. Are they usually bullshit? Yes. But just men or just women are not accountable, it’s a societal thing.

      • Thanks Hina, you make a lot of good points.

        Let me add this:

        I have seen the research on monogamy being a libido-killer for women. Marta Meena of UNLV has talked about this.

        But:

        That’s likely due to sexual repression — created by patriarchy (not individual men, but both men and women who have internalized patriarchy and support the double standard). When you’re constantly punished for being sexual, you become repressed, Which means you lose interest. Women, on average, Have a lower sex drive than men due to repression, so it takes more to get their sexual interest going. Novelty can be one of the things that gets it going. But not necessarily the novelty so much as seeing yourself in someone else’s eyes as hot and sexy. When you have been with the same partner for a while, that look in his eyes can go away. Or, some women are just constantly seeking a sense that they are attractive, hot/sexy, and therefore worthy human beings — because so many women get their self-esteem from a sense of how sexy they are. Because our patriarchal society says that being sexy is where a woman’s worth lies. And if a lot of men are telling you that, it seems more objective than if just one guy is telling you that.

        Clearly, our society needs to be less patriarchal, less repressing of women’s sexuality, and our society needs to stop telling women that their worth lies in how hot they are.

        That said, sex can actually get better with age inside monogamous relationships. That takes healthy people and healthy relationships to make it work. But see these for instance:

        Sex Gets Better With Age?
        https://broadblogs.com/2013/12/02/sex-gets-better-with-age/
        How Sex Gets Better With Age
        https://broadblogs.com/2013/12/09/how-sex-gets-better-with-age/

      • “There have actually been studies that show that married people more sex than single people. So I don’t know how accurate your statement is but either way you need to think about why you see sex as something you “get” from your wife. How about see it as an activity both mutually take part in and if one becomes less interested then figure out why that may be. If sex isn’t happening then see it as a failure on both your part not one person and take equal responsibility.”

        I got married for religious reasons. Also, I happen to believe in the institution of marriage at that time. In my religion, husband and wife are to make sure they please one another. So, there is an obligation to make sure your husband or wife is sexually satisfied. Of course it is an activity that each of us should derive pleasure and excitement.

        Just as there are studies showing married people having more sex than single people, there are also studies showing married women experiencing a drop in libido and desire. So, this lack of interest could be independent of her husband. Esther Perel in her book “Mating in Captivity…….” goes into great detail about this. Also, similar drops in libido and desire have been observed in monogamous lesbian couples (See Lisa Diamond, “Sexual Fluidity……”).

        So, you cannot always see a failure of sex not happening in a marriage as the fault of both parties. Sometimes, there is only one culprit.

        As for women being selective to avoid being viewed negatively, I scoff at the notion. Seriously. Some of the men I have seen women have sex with were cads, thugs, and other derelicts. So, just how consorting with these kinds of men reflect any degree of selectivity (read quality) baffles me.

        Women have sex with men who they view as attractive, period. Quality of man is usually irrelevant (unless he is dangerous). Even then, some women will still have sex with dangerous men. But, it is their business.

        So, please do not place blame on husbands because their wives have lost interest and desire, for sex with their husbands. They might be eager to have sex with other men. Just their desire is lost for their husband, even as they profess their love (with sarcasm of course).

  3. He mourns women not embracing sex and hooking up, but is he helping to make women feel better about having sex freely and not labeling them as sluts? If he’s upset that women can’t embrace sex like men but he does nothing to help as far as telling other guys that a woman is not a slut if she hooks up with men. If he just nods his head in agreement while men say this, then he’s just as much part of this as well. And he says how it sucks and that women get hurt from guys like him having sex or manipulating women in bed. This means he’s a player or has gone that way. He knows apparently that he’s hurt women that he’s fooled around with, yet that never stopped him to continue lying to get women in bed with his intentions. So how much does he care for women, vs he cares, simply because it’s given him more drama than he hopes for and wants men and women to have equal enjoyment.

    And as far as the good looking men having tons of sex. He’s leaving something out there. That’s not exactly true, because it does give a man an advantage if he is good lookiing, but sex just doesn’t come to a man even if he’s good looking. Even a good looking man has to be confident and not simply not shy, but pretty talkative as well. Charm, humor, wit, are other factors too. A good looking guy needs less than probably an average or not attractive man, but there are plenty of good looking guys not getting sex because they are shy, etc. A man even if good looking still usually has to approach and initiate conversation, and court, etc. I guarentee the author has had his fair share of rejections and trial and errors to figure how to approach, and even good looking guys have to figure that out. So, only like the 1% of men, like extrememly good looking guy,s have women coming on to them or make moves. Most of the time even good looking guys have to make a move because women prefer that and because women can be pretty subtle that many guys can miss signs and have to make a move.

  4. “Nevertheless, a key that opens many locks is called a master key, a lock that can be opened by many keys is considered a bad lock.”

    I’ve seen this saying before and while it shits on women, I think men who use this or think this way don’t realize how this view devalues them as well. Here’s a philosophical kind of question. If a key is a master key BECAUSE it opens many locks, if this key is so superior, why does it NEED a lock or locks to be a master key? Meaning if the key is valuable, it should be on its own, but the master key is only superior because what it does based upon it;s success on the locks, which it’s supposed to be superior to? How can a key or man be such a stud, if his worth is so DEPENDENT on his success with women?

    It means his own view of himself and others is based on, not he himself, but by women wanting sex with him, to give him value. If this is the case, then he needs sex with women to have the master key or to be a stud? How superior is a man if he is not a stud innately and needs women to validate him? So a man that doesn’t want a lot of sex or isn’t having a lot of sex is worthless? That may seem true to others, but it’s actually the one that is free and has value upon themselves INDEPENDENTLY, not dependtly that actually has true value, because he then does not feel the need to conform and validate his worth based on others.

    A man thinks he’s a stud because of this, but women in this sense give him the value, which men are feeling superior to with the slut shaming. Yet its actually women having the independent value, as men apparently need women to reciprocate for men to be “master keys right”?

    • Yeah, that’s a pretty stupid thing to base your self-esteem on.

    • Enjoying sex and women is not about being a stud!!!!

      Studies show that men who have “vibrant” sex lives: 1) are happier, 2) are more successful, 3) have higher self esteem, 4) are more confident and 5) live longer. So, what do these things have to do with being a stud or seeking validation from a woman? Zippy! Nothing!

      If a man really enjoys sex a LOT and desires it a LOT with women ( I am strictly hetero) it has nothing to do with validation. It is like his love and passion for butter pecan ice cream. Or it is his way of establishing intimacy with a woman he loves. Or it could be the physical connection…It is that simple.

      On the contrary, a lack of sex (like a lack of $$$$) can be harmful to ones health……

      To me, sex adds value to me as a man via all the positives I mentioned above. However, it does not determine my value as a man. Is it a factor? Yes, of course. I would be untruthful to assert otherwise.

      • Maybe I shouldn’t be interrupting your conversation but studies suggest you’re both right.

        People have sex for all sorts of reasons. Surely the best motive is the one that Huggy is talking about. But a pervasive motive — and an understandable one, since self-esteem is so important — is the motive Bob refers to.

        And men and women both do it for that reason. Men have sex with lots of gals and get high-fives. Women sometimes have sex, hoping to feel beautiful, and therefore, good about themselves. Several of my women students have talked about this. I’ve posted a couple of their essays on my blog. And I’ve got another one coming up (I blog broadly, So I don’t like to Post too many of the same topics close together.)

        Sex with Men, Hoping to Feel Beautiful
        https://broadblogs.com/2014/02/17/sex-with-men-hoping-to-feel-beautiful-2/
        I Wallowed In Self-Pity, Yet I Was A Bombshell
        https://broadblogs.com/2013/11/13/i-wallowed-in-self-pity-yet-i-was-a-bombshell/

  5. Definitely an interesting perspective! The author brings up some thought provoking points for sure.

  6. “Nevertheless, a key that opens many locks is called a master key, a lock that can be opened by many keys is considered a bad lock.”

    But it’s not as simple as that. Then the next argument in the chain can be simply made by asking which locks _can not_ be opened by a master key?

    A “master key” (A man with characteristics and properties found attractive by many women) will of course be more attractive to more “locks” than a key (an unattractive man) than can open few. It doesn’t mean that these women will god to bed with any guy.

  7. A man can have sex for the purpose of pleasure and feeling good, and that be his motive, and also use his success as something to brag about too or to pat himself on the back. So the two can be mutual. And I noticed, you the blogger here talk about how damaging women’s worth being on their looks and body damages their self esteem and media too. But while men are’t objectified to that extent about their bodies or worth like that, men can feel as physically unattractive I think or as many as women but for different reasons or different way. So I don’t know if its worse for women in that sense but different. What I’m saying is girls can feel fat and ugly or a girl maybe feel she is not as pretty as her friends or maybe doesn’t get the attention compared to her friends and it hurts and makes her feel ugly about her looks and body. But while men, their body and looks are judged like women.

    Men can feel as unattractive as women, What I mean is geeky, homely guys, never getting attenton from girls. While intelligent and gifted probably feel ugly. Men having dry spells or espcially long durations wihtout sex or getting turned down or just no dates, can make it seems any man feel like he;s a “fat chick”. I think it can even wear on confident men if time without sex and wanting it goes long enough. Even good looking guys can feel unattractive without sex and attention if long enough span. Many good looking guys don’t think that because they get enough attention or get sex to keep their ego stroked. But that’s not a given that a good looking or good looking guys don’t struggle, as like I said for women, the gift of gab is just as much important as looks. So there are guys that can be shy or not extroverted enough to come up and talk to girls at a bar or find stuff to talk about. Actually more guys than you think get anxious or nervous to approach. Thus not getting dates or laid.

    • If guys are interested in relationships, and not just getting laid, I would recommend they meet women in places other than bars. Two things where you will meet women who share your interests, whether politics, hiking, or whatever. Then you can have conversations, naturally, about your shared interests and get to know each other. And the best way to be charming is to care about the other person. Stop worrying about how you look and Focus instead on making him or her comfortable.

      Hmmm, I may have to blog on this sometime.

      My readers are a treasure trove of blog ideas.

      • “If guys are interested in relationships, and not just getting laid, I would recommend they meet women in places other than bars.”

        I agree with you here. I love libraries, cycling, politics, fishing, Safari hunting, and Latin dancing. I love Southern gothic literature so I am also a member of a few book clubs. Btw, women do read a lot more than men. So, yes you must go to where you want to meet the kinds of women you really like being around.

        I also happen to love certain bars too 🙂 Problem today is most people in bars are busy texting and/or on their smartphones, with their heads down. There was a time in bars when you would actually talk to the person seated next to you. Today, not so much. Sad.

        Being from the South, I am extremely social. Never met a stranger! Unfortunately, I sometimes get tagged as “creepy”, much to my consternation. So, you can put yourself in the right place to meet the right women only to be thought of as a creep JUST for having the audacity to say “Hello!” This is what it has come to in our country today with men and women……Too much acrimony. But, I just keep it moving, though I have been celibate for the past 2 1/2 years to work on myself.

        Again, I love your blog. I have actually learned a few things. Oh, I was reading another one of your blogs and you referenced “Marxist Judaism.” What is that? Though not Jewish, I do study Torah and attend a Chabad Lubavitch shul. So, the Marxist Judaism thingy left me befuddled.

        Keep up the great job!!!!

      • Thank you.

        Kibbutz must be what I meant.

  8. I saw this on facebook and there were two posts from different sides, men and women. Some of these things were funny from guys. http://www.opposingviews.com/i/gallery/society/these-guys-just-got-friend-zoned

    Then girls calling something “girlfriendzoned”, too bad there can be a rift between men and women. I think both sides can be to blame. I think some guys can be jerks, and those are the whiney ones that should know better than continue on with a girl that doesn’t like them that way. Some guys are just torturing themselves from their own entitlement. But other guys get there because the friend they like, the girl,, is messing with their head or confuses them. I don’t think thats right, it might not be on purpose, but some girls can be wishy washy and seem like they are attracted to their male friend by being touchy and flirty, but not so. So whrereas the guy would have otherwise broken things off doesn’t in hopes, that there is something because he thinks there is from her showing what he feels attraction from her actions. Some girls intentionally can not be innocent just as much as guys being jerks and some can flaunt their sexyiness to their guy friends, which causes guys to only resent the girl or girl that he’s friends with.

    One of those differences as I doubt girls understand what its like, as girls don’t have to court and check all the boxes for guys to want them or have such visual, sexual attraction to a guy and feeling teased by him, and his body and helpless. This isn’t about me, I”ve never been friendzoned. I have girls that I’m friends with or acquaintance but none who I’m fixated or lusting for, not that some aren’t attractive. But seriously, if some girl friend that was hot and liked and she ever sent me a pic of her naked body to make sure she looks alright before sending it to another guy, I would defriend her that very second lol. So like I said some of these guys allow it and are at fault for not having a backbone.

    Oh yeah here’s the counter friendzone from redditt or a new thing from girl’s perspective i almost forgot to post. http://www.dailydot.com/lifestyle/girlfriendzone-vs-friendzone-meme/

    • Thanks.

      It’s good to take a look at things from each other’s perspectives.

      I’ll have to say that I have been known to be the wishy-washy type at times. That’s because I was confused, myself. And I will have to admit that I wasn’t thinking about how the guys might’ve been experiencing. So thanks for making me think about that (although I’m married now and hope not to need this information in the future).

    • I could never understand men who hold the attitude that all women should be interested in them, especially “hot” women.

      I have seen men get angry at women for being rebuffed. Why? This is just plain dumb, silly, and immature. How in G-d’s name can a man feel like this? He does not own her. She is under no obligation to accommodate him. Yes, perhaps she could be a bit more polite. But, so can we all.

      My advice to guys has always been to ignore her beauty or lack thereof and focus on learning more about her as a person. Ask her about her life, her interests,…….I am shocked at how few men even know their girlfriend favorite color!!! Why? They have never bothered to ask! If you ask her questions about herself, guess what? You will get to know her! Shocking isn’t it.

      A lot of these guys whining and moaning about being friend-zoned simply are uninteresting. They are boring and lack social skills. Just because you drive an M5……does not mean squat to MOST women. Some, yes. Most, no!

      Yes, it is tougher on us men because we have to undertake the greatest risk(s) of approaching and asking…and suffering the potentially negative consequences. But, I am here to tell you there are effective ways of managing risk! Yes, tall and attractive men will have an edge. Just the way it is..But, an average man can still enjoy success to with charm, intelligence, confidence, imagination, adventure, boldness…..

  9. “If guys are interested in relationships, and not just getting laid, I would recommend they meet women in places other than bars.”

    Well even if a guy wants a relationship, he still might seek sex. As it sucks to not be having sex for a long duration and can be really frustrating for a man if he’s trying to get sex or dates and is failing or too shy, too nervous to approach women so, day in and day out, lonely and unsatisfied. This is why I said it can wear even on a good looking guy if goes long enough without female company in a relationship or sexual way. That’s where a man can feel unattractive, because he’s not desired, or will feel that way.

    Is it wrong to go to other places than bars, but not for relationships? I’ve had to and think of going that route as I never liked bars. As it doesn’t feel natural, and it’s hard for me to talk to girls when I don;t know them and feel like I’m making up stuff. I don’t know, I don;t have a problem talking to a new girl that I don;t know at work or class or a meet, etc as like I have a legitimate quesition to ask or talk about. Or there’s a mutual things as she’s at the same place as me, and things going on and easier to find stuff to talk about.

    It unfortunatley is like a catch 22 for guys. Like the guy said about guys hare happier having vibrant sex lives and more successful and confident. But women love confidence and it’s usually a requirement for guys to have to get girls. It’s not easy to fake, but a man that wants to get laid or a relationship needs to be confident, but if he’s not getting laid, he won’t be confident, which is what he needs to be successful and be confident with girls. hmm,

    • Girls in bars are more likely to want just sex. If you’re meeting them at meetings for political groups, hiking groups, church etc, your chances of finding interest in sex only goes down. You could try and be honest about what you want, I guess.

  10. “Just the way it is..But, an average man can still enjoy success to with charm, intelligence, confidence, imagination, adventure, boldness…..”

    A guy isn;t going to show that charm if he’s in a place like a bar where conversation feels forced or he doesn’t have much to say to the girl he doesn’t know. Charm comes when a person is comfortable and already talking and there’s conversation and a place that kind of has interesting or mutual stuff around to talk about. In order to charm her, you have to approach her, and would be nice at places where there is interesting stuff to talk about. If there isn;t then, it will feel like nothing much to talk about or it being forced. A person comfortable with someone, is more apt to then show their personality and humor and charm as they will have conversation flowing well and then the wit and charm can shine.

    “.I am shocked at how few men even know their girlfriend favorite color!!! Why? They have never bothered to ask! If you ask her questions about herself, guess what? You will get to know her! Shocking isn’t it.”

    I think it’s because men have selective memory ha. How many guys forget their wife or girlfriend’s favorite color but remember her bra size or something else.

    “A lot of these guys whining and moaning about being friend-zoned simply are uninteresting. They are boring and lack social skills. Just because you drive an M5……does not mean squat to MOST women. Some, yes. Most, no!”

    I think it’s because many of those guys aren’t as nice as they say, and just feeling entitled. And other guys simply don’t have a backbone and allow women to walk all over them in hope of these guys good behavior is rewarded with sex.

  11. “Nevertheless, a key that opens many locks is called a master key, a lock that can be opened by many keys is considered a bad lock.”

    Don’t know why so many people have a problem with this phrase. It accurately describes the reason why the sexual double standard still continues to exist. As long as women and men don’t have the same opportunities finding someone to have sex with there will always be a double standard. Whatever the origins of the double standard and the different behavior of the two sexes might be. Besides, lets be honest, women are generally seen as the more civilized, morally superior sex. Whether this is true or not, it of course results in different behavioral standards.
    I personally prefer to see a person as an individual, not as a woman or a man. But apparently the author must understand that rejection of casual sex doesn’t always have to do with repression or social standards. Not everybody is the kind of person for it. I ain’t and I wouldn’t like to be in a relationship with a woman who had casual sex. It is simply not compatible with my perceptions of intimacy, closeness and decency.

    • Yes, but it’s a vicious cycle. The reason men and women don’t have equal opportunities to have sex is because of the double standard, which represses women’s sexuality more than men’s.

      It even represses their sexuality within monogamous relationships.

      I grew up in a religion that turns out to have the highest rate of repression of any religion that was studied. Someone from my Church who went around lecturing Church members was aware of this. He came to my youth class and started writing, in huge letters: SEX, SEX, SEX all over the chalkboard.

      I was incredibly uncomfortable. He then started talking about how our church was constantly giving a sex-negative message, And said that message didn’t go away with marriage, creating a lot of marriage problems. Which I experienced firsthand after getting married. I was actually more interested in sexuality at age 10 than at age 20. And I’ve had to go through a lot of work to recover. And I’m still not entirely recovered.

      That said, while I have a number of friends who are in open marriages, and have a lot of friends and readers who don’t like monogamy — and I’m okay with that so long as they are, it’s not my personal preference. I can’t enjoy sex unless I’m with someone who feels like a soulmate. And I value the intense, transcendent, Soulmate, aspect of sexuality that you can access in a monogamous relationship, and which dissipates if you are having sex with “Everyone.”

      But the sex negative message can create havoc.

      And just because you aren’t sex-negative doesn’t mean you won’t value monogamy. Three quarters of men prefer sex in a relationship to random sex, and they get a much more sex positive message than women do.

      See these posts, too:

      Why Hasn’t Open Marriage Caught On?
      https://broadblogs.com/2011/07/11/why-hasn%e2%80%99t-open-marriage-caught-on/
      Sex Gets Better With Age?
      https://broadblogs.com/2013/12/02/sex-gets-better-with-age/
      Profound Relationship vs Intense Sex
      https://broadblogs.com/2014/06/02/profound-relationship-vs-intense-sex/

  12. “Girls in bars are more likely to want just sex. If you’re meeting them at meetings for political groups, hiking groups, church etc, your chances of finding interest in sex only goes down. You could try and be honest about what you want, I guess.”

    And there’s the catch 22 there. Girls who are more likely to want just sex at bars seem less approachable at bars, than women or girls you see at clubs,etc. So many at bars don’t seem too interested in wanting to talk to guys or have their guard up pretty high. Go figure, it’s easier to talk to girls outside of bars, and those other places, and would be great if they wanted not exactly just sex like hook up, but something more casual (fwb or a short term relationship thing). I don’t mind a girlfriend, but don’t know how long I will want to stay in a relationship as I can’t see myself committing to anyone as I still need to sow my oats a little more. No wonder guy’s aren’t completely truthful in order to get girls in bed.

    • Life is full of complexities and contradictions. Hopefully we don’t hurt others in pursuit of our interests, though.

    • “Girls who are more likely to want just sex at bars seem less approachable at bars, than women or girls you see at clubs,etc.”

      They only want to be approached by the hot good looking guys. Otherwise you are a creep.

      • I don’t know whether that is true or not, having not been a guy going to bars picking up girls.

        But I did see a graph of who responds to whom on OkCupid, Or one of those dating sites.

        Pretty much guys would only respond to the most attractive women, whereas women responded to a much broader range of guys, looks-wise. I may repost it sometime. I saw it on “Sociological Images”

  13. It’s not onesided though as some might believe though. I know plenty of men who have had their hearts broke by women, not just from break ups, but cheating or girl using a guy or being mean. Girls can be just as mean as guys. Maybe less likely to have sex and discard a guy, but use a guy for companionship just to say, make an ex boyfriend jealous or for the man’s money or status and game playing. Girls can be quite the game players and mess with guys heads too. Unfortunatley both can and do it to each other, causing heartache and resentment towards the other sex.

    • I never made any assumptions as to which gender was doing what. Just saying that I think people shouldn’t hurt each other (Regardless of what gender they are).

      • Ditto!

        I just think we need to deal with one another with respect, compassion, and kindness. If people do not appreciate these qualities, then do not let it change you as a person.

        I fell into that trap during my frustrated and sexually empty marriage. Resentment, anger, bitterness and vindictiveness consumed me. I was being eaten alive until I decided it was time to let go. I still have not fully freed myself to be honest.

        I think we men hear one message but are shown a different reality by a lot of women. We get angry and seek to get even through lies and deceit. Yes, women are guilty of this as well. But, I think it is the wrong thing to do.

        I say choose Love, Compassion, and Kindness.

      • Thank you for your thoughts. I agree.

  14. Well, from my experience, I’m a pretty good looking dude. And I don’t think girls would see me as a creep or not because of my looks, but because they’ve been approached by creep guys or overly aggressive men at bars. And have their guard up for many men approaching them at bars. I’ve checked out girls and some have seen my glance at their bodies and they would smile and feel complimented. Usually non-good looking guys don’t get smiles if a girl sees him checking her out. It’s more like, because women seem less approachable and less wanting to talk to guys at bars, that I have to say something funny or interesting right on the spot or else they won’t be interested from the body language. Girls in a classroom, club activity, ever work, seem more receptive to a new guy they don’t know chatting them up, than a stranger at a bar. Even though, if you’re a new guy or she’s new at work, you’re just as much a stranger as the guy at the bar. I think it helps, because the mutual place and scene you share, as have some common interest to be at some social club, volunteer, or ever work, so perhaps it seems less akward, I don’t know.

  15. Pretty much guys would only respond to the most attractive women, whereas women responded to a much broader range of guys, looks-wise. I may repost it sometime. I saw it on “Sociological Images”

    But very few women respond to guys in general, good looking or not for online dating. Many it seems use dating sites to window shop or for ego stroking.

    Or for validation of their beauty by seeing a bunch of men messaging them and using it to boost their confidence.

    • I posted something on the guy who tried to get his girlfriend to have an open relationship, And then it turned out that she was much more successful than he was. Apparently, an awful lot of the women who were acting interested in him we’re no longer interested once he was available. That makes it sound like women are using the sites in a different way than men are. An ego stroke, or just having some safe fun, sans STI’s.

      I saw the actress, Mila Kunis, say that she sometimes had fun on these sites, posing as someone else, with no interest at all in meeting any of these guys. Probably not an ego boost in her case, since she was already named the sexiest woman alive by Esquire, and was in the top 10 in Maxim’s list and FHM. Plus, she was dating gorgeous Aston Kutcher at the time.

      Maybe it’s just a way to have some fun, and get some sexual energy expended in a safe way? Or in her case, have some contact with the masses that she must usually stay arm’s-length from or it’s chaos?

  16. “I saw the actress, Mila Kunis, say that she sometimes had fun on these sites, posing as someone else, with no interest at all in meeting any of these guys. Probably not an ego boost in her case, since she was already named the sexiest woman alive by Esquire, and was in the top 10 in Maxim’s list and FHM. Plus, she was dating gorgeous Aston Kutcher at the time.

    Maybe it’s just a way to have some fun, and get some sexual energy expended in a safe way? Or in her case, have some contact with the masses that she must usually stay arm’s-length from or it’s chaos?”

    Well it makes sense for mila to not get involved as she’s a celebrity. But maybe not and ego stroke, I forgot to put that down, but yes women go on for the sake of “looking around” and having fun. I did say window shop, which kind of relates to the looking around, having fun purpose of the site.

    So it may seem that guys are worse, because they may write to the top attractive women, though I’m quite sure many guys write to average looking women too. But women, while more likely to write to an average looking guy, are worse. Though I think frequency, the average women is obviously getting much more messages from men than average guy. Actually, average girl probably more messages than even the “hot” guys on a dating site. The thing though, is this good? I’ve tried okcupid for a little bit, got like very few messages though leaving the profile up for a while. I eventually forgot about it and took it down. I mean it was something to try to go along with other stuff The few that were cute, nothing came of it. I would have thought I’d done better, but I think that’s the story for guys.

    Is this good though? Girls say how guys can be jerks, but I think guy’s would appreciate girls and women on dating sites to actually be on it to date or meet and not just to have fun looking around, for the ego stroke. It just wastes guys time and can feel belittling to men. It’s unfortunate, but things men do and stuff like this women do, can cause animosity and resentment amongst men toward women and things guys do. I think guys try, but don;t usually expect to get responses back from attractive women in dating sites, because attractive women and dating sites do a good job reminding a man that he’s not desirable or not much whereas, women have the goods.

    • Maybe you get angry because of the way you see it, but maybe the way you see it isn’t how things are. So maybe you don’t need to be so angry. It’s a good way to make yourself miserable.

  17. It really isn;t about me, I stopped trying dating sites along time ago. I’m just explaining the disconnect between men and women. Women just seeing them doing something fun and innocent and just for fun browsing a site but not planning or ever answering a guy, while guys can see women as teasing men and lucky women have the luxury to get sex when they want and can simply browse. Thus, women not having the task like men generally do of trying to get sex, plus the very high sex drive men have, women don’t get how frustrating it is or can be for men and the last thing they want is to be teased or feel disrespected. If women had such urges like guys and task men have with trying to get sex and dates generally, they might not just do stuff like that on dating sites and be more understanding. I don’t mean having sex with men for the sake of it. No, guys like that are weasels and whiners. I just mean simply not being, non chalant about it. As I think guys would prefer girls or women on those sites who don’t plan on meeting guys and most, that are just looking or for ego stroke, to just not be on the site and go elsewhere.

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