Men, Women Are Not From Mars, Venus
Men and women aren’t so different, after all.
They have similar levels of interest in sex with multiple partners, willingness to have sex outside of a relationship, closeness with a best friend and interest in science, for instance.
What a surprise!
Harry Reis, a psychology professor at the University of Rochester, and Bobbi Carothers, a senior data analyst at Washington University used their own and others’ research to study the characteristics of 13,301 men and women.
They looked at a range of things like physical strength, sexual attitudes, empathy, science inclination, extroversion, relationship interdependence, intimacy, mate selection criteria and personality traits in an attempt to find out which characteristics could reliably predict whether someone was male or female.
Turns out, women and men are much more alike than different.
And even differences may not be biologically based. Stereotypes tend to create social patterns. Boys are told “boys don’t cry,” so they end up repressing their emotions. Or, they get kudos for acting tough. So they are more likely to grow up to be tough guys. Girls, on the other hand, are free to cry and show weakness, and so they are more likely to do both. That’s a social pattern, not a biological one.
But even with socialization, you still get a continuum of behavior. Some guys are sweet and some girls are tough.
The researchers found that the biggest differences were physical, with men being taller and physically stronger. But psychologically, there’s a lot of overlap.
Below, you can find graphs of physical strength and assertiveness. Men are a bit more assertive, but take a look at the overlap.
A variety of other traits show a pattern similar to the bottom graph, like desire for non-committed sex (so much for evolutionary psychology), fear of success, levels of empathy, and how much feeling men and women have for their friends.
Amanda Marcotte points out that,
What’s remarkable about all this is not that men and women have so much in common but that these commonalities persist despite relentless gender policing that usually involves quite a bit of shame.
Men face ridicule if they’re perceived as having female-like levels of empathy and concern for their friends, and yet, according to the study, they overcome it. Women are routinely told there’s something wrong with them if they have “masculine” attitudes towards sex and men are emasculated if they aren’t horny all the time or if they desire intimacy alongside their sexual adventures, and yet both genders tend to have a mix of adventurousness and tenderness when it comes to sex.
Good to know that the humanity within usually wins out.
Simplistic frameworks like the pop psychology book, Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus can even be harmful in some ways. In relationships, says Reis,
When something goes wrong between partners, people often blame the other partner’s gender immediately. Having gender stereotypes hinders people from looking at their partner as an individual. (Yet) gay and lesbian couples have much the same problems relating to each other that heterosexual couples do. Clearly, it’s not so much sex, but human character that causes difficulties.
Rigid frames can also discourage people from pursuing goals that they think are for the other sex.
If men aren’t really from Mars, nor women from Venus, that gives us all a whole lot of freedom.
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Posted on December 2, 2019, in gender and tagged gender differences, gender similarities, men and women from Mars Venus. Bookmark the permalink. 82 Comments.
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I found a lot of the studies and results to be very fascinating. While I understand the physical differences that the study touches on, it does seem that men and women do a have a lot in common when it comes to acceptance and emotional well being. Ultimate it seems humans have very similar wants and needs regardless if you are a man or a women and try and do whatever they can to achieve this.
The book “Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus”, regardless of its popularity and position in pop-culture, reinforces traditional gender stereotypes, despite claiming and attempting to dispel those notions. Women continue to be perceived as inferior drivers, and men as inferior cooks. A nurse, a secretarial assistant or a school teacher is more likely to be a woman than a man. As the studies referred to in the post show, psychological strength has no correlation to being male or female. Culpability in a problem or inadequacy in a response to a problem too is far too often attributed to the woman, since she is the one who is lesser and lacking in physical or intellectual capacity. Being late to the party is always the woman’s fault for taking so long getting dressed, and never on the man who took the long traffic-burdened route, despite his apparently superior driving skills. Similar attributions to men occur when a social situation deteriorates because the man is brash, impatient and insensitive. These are traits that are readily assigned to the gender, and not on individual personality – further reinforcing the stereotype and absolving the individual of responsibility.
The most feminist countries in the world… like Sweden, have the highest proportion of women in traditional women’s roles like nurses and teachers. Why? because when society completely frees women to do whatever they want, and gives them a decent salary to do it, that’s what women flock to doing. The only way to stop this is with a top down authoritarian nightmare where you force women into STEM when they actually don’t want to be there.
When society completely frees women to do whatever they want, and gives them a decent salary to do it, women flock to doing it?
I guess that explains why nearly half of Sweden’s parliament is women.
Nurturing children is a very positive thing to do. Women are still socialized to do that more than men are, even in egalitarian Western societies. I’ll bet that Swedish parents are still much more likely to give girls dolls than boys. So given the socialization it’s not surprising.
On the other hand I have a brother and sister-in-law who have very traditional views but they always say it’s too bad that the guy can’t stay home with the kids because he’s better at parenting and hates work, and that the gal can’t work outside the home because she enjoys work and her husband doesn’t. Of course, they could switch roles! But they have such traditional views that they won’t allow themselves to do so!
I think that trying to divy up the traits between genders give reason to even further the divide between. What I mean is that it gives an excuse for someone to treat the another of the opposite gender in a categorical way, in a manner that is stereotypical or status quo. It may appear joking to act with the same gender but when it comes to the opposite, there may be some hidden or ulterior motive and to build practice may provide an excuse for some. It might go in reverse, what appears to be joking between genders may be used to demean, ridicule others by taking advantage of privilege.
I dont necessarily mean an ethnic people when i mean privilege but something more standard like wealth and gender
Yes. Agreed.
I do agree that there is a difference in the way men and women respond. There are several studies relating that difference to genetics and cultural conditioning. I personally believe that it is our experiences and our environmental factors that tend to extend the differences. Especially as children, the root conditioning parents or other personal relationships create can branch into adulthood. Furthermore, the treatment of difference among the two can cause the actual difference itself. A bias or leniency on a specific type can be related to leading universally different worlds. As humans our commonalities are very much similar, just the reaction to our desires or fears separate us. It isn’t a bad thing to be different, it also shouldn’t be expected to act a certain way in order to fit a socially constructed criteria of what women are supposed to be like.
While there are still distinct views on male vs female characteristics, I feel that the narrative of how society feels men “should” be and how women “should” be is slowly changing with time. Especially with nonbinay characteristics and titles. Although most of the world is pretty closed off and uninterested in having an open-minded view, there are slow changes. I know for my own family, I have a young daughter and son and ultimately I want them to be confident and strong individuals no matter who they love, what they like, or what they wear. As parents we don’t restrict or dictate what toys they play with or what colors they wear. We also don’t shove certain agendas down their throats like I see some parents doing to their kids. Essentially pushing their child to be something they are not. They should be free to make their own choices and I think going forward, we will see more and more of the old stereotypes with gender no longer being the case.
I admit that there is indeed a difference between men and women. Physiologically, men and women are very different. But at the same time, I also think that men and women can be the same in many places. People have always said that men are naturally tall and strong. The woman is very petite and weak. But these are all factors that can be changed. As long as women are willing to practice their physical fitness, women can be very strong. For example, in the sports world, that person can play basketball because they are tall, but women can also play. Even if they are not taller than men, they are comparable to men in terms of basketball skills. I know that many people still cannot compare women with men, but now society is constantly improving, and more women will prove to society that they are capable and can be the same as men. I am very grateful to the researchers who analyze men and women. The data they provide us can be better, scientifically telling people how much the gap between the sexes, maybe this gap will no longer exist in the future.
I really enjoyed this article, though this was something I had suspected for a while. Growing up my best friend was a guy and through our friendship I found that we were so much more alike then we were different. We wanted similar things in relationships, we both wanted to advance in our N.J.R.O.T.C program both is rank and, in the activities, and teams we joined. I ended up being the third highest rank of our unit and he led our favorite team. When a girl broke his heart, I was his literal shoulder to cry on and he was mine when someone broke my heart. The idea that men and women are so different can be damaging to relationships, if you go into thinking the other person couldn’t possibly understand you because (as the book says) Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus so they couldn’t possibly understand how we are feeling. They couldn’t possibly want what we want out if a relationship right? Wrong at the core regardless of social conditioning and gender roles we are more alike than we ae different and that is so encouraging.
I firmly believe that reinforcing the difference between men and women reinforces the patriarchy. Whether we look at women’s suffrage or other issues of equality, we consistently see times where men (especially white men in power) would think of women as “others” – less intelligent, less able to contribute to society, etc. As was seen during WWII with women participating in the war effort in jobs typically seen as “manly,” the first step towards understanding others is seeing them as similar (or similarly capable) as you. This breeds acceptance and the ability to see others as equals (as with suffrage/voting rights/Title IX after WWII).
Historical trends of society-wide patriarchal views are changing with strong women’s movements such as 2nd/4th wave feminism. We can see effects of the 2nd wave feminism from the 60s, 70s, and 80s even today: the ideas, laws and principles that are were revolutionary at the time are now widely accepted and still used today – commonly accepted and “obvious” things like Title IX, the FDA’s approval of birth control in 1960 which seem normal today were not prior.
Interestingly, the 4th wave feminism movement of today (MeToo movement, etc) has been especially able to flourish and take hold of society given our connection with social media and the ability to communicate (and protest) easily and on a moment’s notice. I’m really interested to see what happens in the future with our connected society and the ability for basically anything you say on the internet to be reviewed by anyone else.
Anatomical differences between anyone could play a big part in one’s physical capability and strength, regardless of sex. Although each person, male or female, has uniquely diverse biological factors that can also be taken into account when comparing characteristics between sexes, I do feel that a person’s upbringing, health, social and family dynamic, culture and many other various exposures and practices influence an individual’s psychological and physical variants. I feel that the stigmas that apply to a specified sex has complicated self-identity and still remain very narrowed with confusion when gender and sexual identity become integrated into discussion. In support of the article, I can see similarities psychologically, emotionally, intimately, sexually, and even physically between the two genders. It is disheartening to see this interfere with people’s life pursuits. The stereotyping and stigmas that have historically been set on two genders seem to be just as difficult to “change” as it is to change politics.
Stereotyping and the biased social norms are two destructive tools that humans can use to destroy each other and their partners. As a man, I also like to show my feelings (Sad, Happy,etc) to my friends or even sometimes cry! Feelings belong to everyone and it is not about being a man (be rough) or being a lady (be weak) to ignore them. I remember as a kid, it was always kind of a peer pressure to show toughness in front of girls or do this or do that to impress girls and vice versa. But I totally believe in that that we are all our thoughts and feelings and the rest is just flesh and bones. I am happy to see the results of the articles showing just different than that pop book and to just simply not label people by being from Mars, Venus or whenever else. We are all the same and the differences in us are to just look at eachothers from a different angle and to not judge each other by our sex.
I always like it when theory can be backed by data collated from a large group. No two people are the same, women have commonalities as do men. As the post pointed out these can be social or societal norms that are reinforced in a person, it does not make it their overwhelming reaction in any instance, just the reaction they know they are meant to show.
The research has shown that men show more assertiveness, this does not surprise me. Meek women were a prized possession not that long ago, a woman who could hold her tongue and be obedient was the best thing a man could own. As time marches on and women realize that they will not be struck down if they speak their minds and remind those around us that women are human too, not just a possession. Women begin to be more assertive (not bossy as they were previously labeled!), they can finally speak their minds and as it turns out they have many similar ideas to the men folk.
I don’t think men and woman are drastically different, we’re both human, making us similar in the grand scheme of things. But I have trouble wrapping my head around what being human really means. When looking at humanity from a modern/societal standpoint, I believe we’ve been moving further away from what true humanity really is. When we take into consideration why people lack empathy, think narcissistically, and believe the world revolves around them, we can see the influence stereotypes have on people’s judgement about ethnicity, sex, gender, etc. People like to focus on the things that separates them from other people because they don’t want to believe that their life has any resemblance to anyone else’s. I believe that the more researchers continue to look for similarities between men and women, we’ll get closer to people accepting that men and women can show any range of emotion, characteristic, and personality because this is what it means to be human. Why repress anything we’re born to express?
There can be a big difference between two human beings, like the extent of their empathy. But when you look at gender differences there really aren’t many. There are plenty of both men and women who have almost no empathy and plenty of both women and men who do. But I have often wondered how two people Who are so morally opposed (mass murderers versus Mother Theresa) can be of the same species!
I definitely agree with this blog, and I’d think it hard for anyone to argue against those statistics. I think in my experience, most men compare themselves to other men. This probably leads to stereotypes more than men comparing to women, and vice versa. Younger people tend to compare themselves to others much more than older people. With time people realize that comparing yourself only leads to negativity, whether it be feeling inferior or superior to someone else. I do find it interesting that height is brought up in the data. In my experience men tend to commonly compare height, and some refuse to date women who are taller. I would also assume some women refuse to date those who are shorter. When it comes to sexual preference and desire to have multiple partners, it seems obvious to me that it would be even across genders. I find it surprising some people disagree.
Well the point about height is that men are on average 6 inches taller than women so well you won’t know for sure who is taller is a man and woman are being compared (if you haven’t seen them) chances are a little stronger that the man will be taller.
Because of the height differential men are more likely to be taller than their partners but we also place a symbolic meaning on height such that people are often uncomfortable with the woman being taller in a relationship because of patriarchy, Where we have decided that taller means male, or something.
I think this just comes down to someone always wanting to be dominant or better than the other. I do not think men are better than women and neither the other way around. I think people just need to understand that men are built for certain things and so are women. Women do some things for the progression of society that help more than men and vise versa. What we as humans all need to understand is that trying to separate things and make them complicated only takes away what we could do if we worked together. If we accepted what makes us different instead of trying to make a contest about it that we could actually appreciate each other instead of thinking we basically need each other for procreation. Lastly, most of the things that the genders really argue about and compete with each other for are ego related things.
This topic in particular stuck out to me the most because it’s something I’ve always come across with my family and friends. Growing up in a Hispanic family, there is a level of machismo that effects the way people are expected to behave. Girls were thought of as docile, delicate, quiet, and for the most part gentle. It’s looked down upon when you are too loud or even just not wearing a pretty dress because you prefer to wear jeans. With guys, you are expected to be strong, to be able to be a sole provider. Th example I liked the most was about how both genders are already predicted to react a certain way whether there sad, mad or even happy. Men can be just as equally sensitive just as women can be just as temperamental when there upset. In today’s society, a lot has changed to the point where people are starting to listen to their true emotions of what they want and how they choose to express themselves. California has been one of the homes to freedom of expression, regardless of your gender. Men can be just as equally fit at any other job considered to be only a woman’s job, vice versa. Women want more for themselves because we are at a time of self worth and self discovery that has let us to be enlightened with the fact that we can be just as equally fit as the men. There are no limits when there are no lines drawn on what men and women can’t do.
Thanks for sharing about your experience with this.
I for the most part definitely have to agree with this blog for a number of reasons. I’ve always felt like men and women do have a lot of similar traits, but as it was said in the blog posting because of society we are expected to act or behave a certain way as men and women. Men are told by their fathers to be tough and not show weakness, they’re expected to see how many girls they can score from their friends, and women expect men to be the breadwinners. On the other hand women are told be their mothers that it’s okay to show your emotions, they’re are expected to not “sleep around” by their friends, and men expect women to be the caretaker of the home. Of course every single person is different and this isn’t always the case but I believe that if these social norms weren’t expected of men and women that we actually would be extremely alike. I also believe that as time goes on men and women have become more equal, and every trait is more acceptable.
I have had discussions about this often. The fact that I personally have always had a hard time with a male partner has lead me to believe this is partially due to the fact that I have never fit into my social parameters of what is an American woman. And on the males end, the fact that he has been taught to not show emotion since childhood has had a huge psychologically negative impact on the general male population. And thus, at least for my personal relationships with males, effects it greatly.
I am naturally a boisterous, outgoing woman. And while men initially find it very attractive, in relationships it tends to be problematic. Men being raised with different expectations of their female partner end up feeling emasculated at times.
Once you are in an intimate long term relationship, there is supposed to be a much deeper connection. You end up finding out more about that person besides just what their favorite color is, their shoe size, their favorite food, etc. You learn their deepest fears/insecurities. And instead of being enamored by all the things you have been attracted to from the beginning you start to notice the things you don’t like about that person. They you, as well.
As the blog states we do not start off so differently initially. We have similar desires. But our difference in upbringing based on our gender, even between two siblings in the same household, has great effect on who we become as adults and what we come to expect in our relationships. Our early on taught “gender roles” wreak havoc on our intimate human relationships.
This is a topic that shall never cease to awe us and we shall continue to wonder on the way both of us look at life and our desire for living a happy life. The question is about the way we express ourselves and engage in the discussion on such topics. There are multiple layers to the conversation that sometime and some place it happens and many places it just doesn’t take off. We all have our own set of perspectives and each adds to the color of this enriched discussion that usually follows on these intriguing topics.
This is a good time of the year to look back and at the same time look forward to many things that are on our ways. Wishing you great success and happiness in the year ahead.
Wishing you a wonderful 2020 Happy New Year!!!
Signing Off 2019 from wondering “Makeup & Breakup.”
😀
Thank you. Happy new year to you too.
Thank you and have a wonderful year ahead.
😀
Well, because women are the sex objects they tend to be aroused by their partner finding them exciting. And maybe new partners find women more exciting than someone they have been with for a long time. Regardless of that only half of women prefer to have many partners while the other half prefer monogamy, which mirrors numbers for men. Another thing which can keep partners interested is deep connection which comes from monogamy.”
Ah, so women can want sex with different men for the ego stroke or maybe turn on from being lusted by different attractive men and the reaction they can get from different men? That makes sense, as desiring sex based on the visual wouldn’t have made sense since women are generally or usually aroused or motivated toward men’s bodies sexually like men are toward women’s. That is why men often would desire sex with different women, because of purely visual reasons. It’s physical, but in a reflective way for women with maybe a handsome men, but his attraction to her or her desiring to create that lust from different attractive men and in her fantasy, having the sex she desires from such men.
That’s my guess, anyway.
For most of my life I have had to act or be tough, and do things that only men would do. When my father passed away most of the men in my family would tell me to stop crying and that men don’t cry. Instead I would soon become the “Man of the House” so I had to be tough and strong for myself and my mother. Which I did, I would end up suppressing my emotions and not allowing myself to be emotion and vulnerable. This stereotype of men and boys needing to be tough needs to be stopped. Boys especially need to be able to cry and feel emotional, it’s how we grow. Although being a tough guy made a stronger person at times, I struggled to let others in on my emotions. It’s hard for me to open because I don’t want to look weak. Or give anyone a reason to look down on me.
I found this article to be very interesting because it is society, not biology in the way women/men differences. Take for example the gender roles of thanksgiving or any holiday event. One large similarity I’ve noticed is how women are the ones that usually serve the food. Similarly, the women are the ones that do a lot of the work prior ie organizing the meal, invites, cleaning etc., while the men do smaller and relaxed roles. Even with the younger generations, there are the older men and even older women that try to keep it the same, it can be teasing or comments of letting the men do what they do and we do what we do?! There is also the fact that moms are usually getting help if needed from the children. Although some men are doing more than just carving the turkey or grilling, the fact is that society has made it where even the most successful women, even the breadwinners so to speak are having a difficult time breaking the stereotype.
As far as sexuality, I agree that women/men are more similar than what society portrays. I also think that most women don’t feel comfortable expressing it because of the label they may have especially younger women. Personally, I’ve never had a problem being assertive and telling my partner exactly what I want from him sexually as I feel that men don’t have a problem expressing what they want/need so why should women.
“Personally, I’ve never had a problem being assertive and telling my partner exactly what I want from him sexually as I feel that men don’t have a problem expressing what they want/need so why should women.”
That’s awesome! I love women like you.
I agree that men and women are more similar than dissimilar when it comes to sex. Actually, I have discovered women to be far more sexually adventurous than men. The only “knock” I have against women is they have far less sexual discipline than most men.
Just curious about what you mean by sexual discipline.
Women are constantly expected to practice sexual discipline by being the guardrails and saying no. And slut-shamed when we don’t. (Even as men are celebrated for doing the same thing that women are shamed for.) Some of us have put so much discipline on ourselves that we have lost much interest in sex from the habit of repressing our sexuality.
This Blog Post, “Men, Woman Are Not From Mars, Venus” was interesting to read because of the different perspectives of how men and woman are not so different after all. I completely agree with everything that was written in this blog. This blog emphasizes the fact even though genders have stereotypes and that is what makes the genders “different”, but deep down we are all feeling the same way. Psychologically we are all the same, but we all don’t have the “freedom” to act in the same manner because of stereotypes. The same stereotypes of how girls are soft, and guys are supposed to be tough. I hate how much everyone feeds into these stereotypes and if one does not conform to them, they are seen less as who they are. If a guy wants to cry, he should be able to, if a girl wants to be more masculinity, then she has the absolute right to do so. It sucks because everyone has to suppress their emotions in order to fit into societies standards. I’ve seen it happen to both genders in my friends, how they get judged for stating their feelings or being their true selves. It sad if you think about it, that these stereotypes conform people in society so much, but we are all so blind to it because it is all that we have known.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this.
Wow this was such a pleasing blog post to read. Growing up, society has groomed all of us to have a magnifying glass on men and women’s masculinity and femininity and how that fits in with the rest of society. Qualities such as assertiveness and empathy are shared between the sexes, but for one these qualities are more accepted. This is WRONG. We shouldn’t be limiting what’s natural. The “norms” are silently enforced and put us in boxes. I think this article is a very important piece and is dissolving these boundaries that are put up around men and women’s true and authentic personalities and mindsets. At the end of the day, regardless of being men and women, we are all human beings who feel the same things and we should be allowed to express how we feel about things because we all have that in common. Great Article!
Thank you!
I found this article to be very intriguing. Having grown up with an older brother who was very different than me, I always thought that men and women were very different. Of course, to a child it makes sense that the opposite sex should be quite different from yourself, but then there were times when I saw that men and women should be equal. Women can do anything a man can do. Biologically, we are all human so we should not be as different as we are told we are. I feel like as a woman, I am taught through media that men and women are different, especially in regards to stereotypes and double standards. Having always been that men only ever think about sex and that women never do, but in fact, neither is true. I mean sure, women do not reach their sexual prime until they are in their 30, and men reach theirs in their late teens, but they do not think about sex all that differently.
I appreciate that this article acknowledges that many of the psychological differences between men and women are created by society rather than biology. Often times children follow the example set by their parents when it comes to gender roles, creating a pattern of gender stereotypes that should be changed. One point this article makes that is especially interesting is that research finds that both men and women have the same sexual desires, including a desire “for non-committed sex”. However, this behavior is strongly discouraged for women, yet accepted, and sometimes even celebrated, for men. This highlights the extreme cultural disparity between the way we view men and women because although we all have the same sexual preferences, it is only socially appropriate for men to express them. As the next generation of parents, we have an opportunity to shift the gender specific molds presented by our parents and set an example of inclusion and acceptance.
We would all be better off let out of our straight jackets.
I have always been closer to guys than I have to girls, and have a majority of guy friends. What I have learned through having so many guy friends is that they really aren’t that different from girls. Guys may act all tough and macho in front of girls, but when it comes down to it they are just as sensitive as we are. They just choose not to show it. I have had deep conversations with my guy friends about girls, and have learned that they too worry about a lot of the same things that I worry about as a women with men. A lot of times they come to me asking for girl advice, which is also something that my girl friends do too. They often wonder if the person they’re with is with them for the right reasons, just like my girlfriends and I do. Although they put this front on with other people and especially other women, I feel that men can be just as sensitive as women sometimes.
We humans are more alike than not in our basic human nature.
I completely agree with this article in that most of what we believe to be gender differences are in fact a social construct. In my experience most people tend to believe that we are biologically built to act a certain way. For a long time women were expected to only fill the role of mother and wife while men were the head of the house-hold and bread winner, in a respect-demanding role. This social norm emphasized that men and women were so different that one gender couldn’t or shouldn’t fill the shoes of the other while the research tells us differently. The genders are much more alike and I think it comes down to viewing the person in front of you as a sum of their genetic predispositions and their life experiences instead of traits that are viewed as typical. Unfortunately, I think the main reason we have such perpetuating stereotypes is in large part due to how genders are portrayed in American media, especially media targeted to young audiences.
There are many factors that re-create the pattern. Media, parents, teachers and friends.
What I’ve read too though is men are more likely than women to fantasize or have fantasies based out of desire. It means men have fantasies because they turn them on and they would do such things if they were in a society or place where they wouldn’t be judged.
Sexual repression affects both men and women, but women much more. Women faces but also shaming for not doing sex with exactly the right number of partners. And there are just so many words out there that shame women From the time they are born: slut, whore, skank… Women are even shamed for being sexually assaulted. And men are sometimes celebrated for committing assault
“Sexual repression affects both men and women, but women much more.”
No, it is innate. That’s why Pornhub has 3x as many male visitors as female, despite porn being socially taboo for both sexes, and yet something you can do in privacy with nobody knowing.
“Women are even shamed for being sexually assaulted. And men are sometimes celebrated for committing assault”
Women watch 72% more porn in the catogory of “rough sex” than men on pornhub. So if anybody is celebrating that kind of thing, it is women.
Fantasy and reality are two different things. Women may have fantasies about that because of our society that eroticizes violence against women. But they don’t want the reality of it.
This explains why women are more affected by repression, and it does seem to be innate:
https://broadblogs.com/2016/04/18/women-are-more-responsive-to-repression/
Where does the endless cycle of chicken and egg start and end when it comes to society eroticising what people find erotic, and people finding erotic what society eroticises? You would think with the endless virtue signaling in this day and age against violence against women, that this would at least be on the decline if it was not biologically innate. But no, this is the age in which 50 shades of grey is a thing, when it would have been taboo a decade ago.
No one can figure out the chicken and egg question on society socializing us and us changing society. Very complex. All you can do is compare different societies to see that things people often think are biological or actually sociological — because there would not be cultural differences if they were biological.
“there would not be cultural differences if they were biological.”
(a) You assume all humans are biologically the same, which they are not.
(b) Life is genes expressed in an environment. If particular genes don’t express in a particular environement, it doesn’t mean those genes don’t exist. People with lactose tollerance have that trait even in environments without milk. Even if all humans were biologically lactose tolerant, doesn’t mean they would drink milk in all environments.
I don’t assume that all humans are biologically the same. But you were 10 to find the same patterns from culture to culture. Individual differences and cultural patterns. If the cultural patterns are the same throughout the world then you know you have a biological basis for your argument. Like smiling and pouting mean the same thing everywhere. All people need to eat and have sex. But what you eat and how you do sex is cultural. Everyone has intercourse but some cultures are more likely to do missionary style and others are more likely to do doggy style. That’s culture.
Yes, humans are affected by their environments, both physical and cultural. Brain wiring is even affected. Hormone levels are affected. genes are affected. But we do have some behaviors that you find around the world as I mentioned, and those are strictly biological.
This is a very “fair and balanced” interview.
She is a European woman whose perspective is very very different than American women. She clearly recognize the differences between men and women. She also accepts those differences. Unlike here where feminist are trying to force men to change who we are as men.
What is interesting is her halting answers when asked if she “liked” men or “loved” men.
Well, people can have opinions. But opinions are different from research.
Since I was a child my mom always told me there wasn’t really much difference between a men and a women psychological. But when my sister and I went to Mexico, we would help my grandma clean the house, each one was assigned a task, either sweep, mop, wash the dishes, or dust. The only one who wasn’t assigned a task was my cousin, who was the only boy out of 3 girls. We asked him to help sweep and as soon as my grandma saw him with the broom she took it away from him and said that he isn’t allowed to sweep because he was a boy. We didn’t understand it back then why he still couldn’t help even if he was a boy, my mom tired to explain it to us that it was different in Mexico, but I did remember that we argued wth her and told her that it shouldn’t be different and he should still help us too. I think as a society some of us have grown to think that boys can only do certain things and girls can only do certain thing. Just last week at my job, I was moving a pallet with a pallet jack and a customer who was a women told me why I was doing that and only a guy should do that because it’s heavy. I just told her a girl can do it to and it wasn’t heavy. But sadly she wasn’t the only one who said something about me being a girl and doing a “man” job, (didn’t know we still had those now a days). To my surprise I didn’t get offend when some of the customers whose are men asked if that was a man job or if it was too heavy for me, but I took it more as an insult when the women told me what the men have being saying throughout the week.
Boys are indeed able to sweep the floor. So long as society doesn’t stop them.
There are certain biological differences between males and females. As the article notes, one of the few things you can predict with high accuracy is who is physically stronger, which is males. Still, we exaggerate the difference, often not realizing how physically strong women are.
(Men have more muscular strength but women are stronger in other ways like an ability to survive because more calories turn to fat instead of muscle, which helps them to survive famine and cold and to have greater endurance. Women also have better balance with a lower center of gravity, and better flexibility.)
I have always thought that blaming gender for differences is really just a scapegoat for insecurities. As mentioned at the end of the article queer couples have similar probable to heteronormative couples. To me, this idea isn’t surprising at all. When there are problems in a relationship, be it platonic or romantic, blaming a biological fact is easy. Looking for the real problem of someone’s desires and motivations is much harder. I think that defining men and women as such different categories is also very harmful. It seems clear that the real difference in people is just a difference rooted in their humanity not their biology. People are people, and part of the problem with gender inequality today is that there is such a huge emphasis placed on it. I think one day gender will be irrelevant, as these studies suggest “male” traits and “female” traits don’t really exist. We create these ideas, and then people put themselves in categories. One day, maybe all the lines will be blurred and people will just be able to be people.
It’s too bad that stuff culture makes up creates straitjackets for both women and men. Men who are softer and cuddly or can feel like they can’t express that. Or just being allowed only one emotion, anger, really hurts both men and the people around them as they react in a rage, when they really need to be aware of the real emotion and deal with that.
Meanwhile Women are often pigeonholed and kept from doing many things that would serve both themselves and society. For instance, our society tends to be uncomfortable with female leaders, so we miss out on some really good leadership while women with the skills aren’t able to fully express them.
Why do women have not much of a difference in desire for sex with many or different people if women are less visual than men? You said our culture is why women are less visual than men because women are sexualized and men are not as well as women are repressed sexually. If that’s the case, why would women be supposedly desiring not much of a difference for casual sex than men in our culture? Those graphs show not as much of a difference than you think by gender, and those graphs are of women in such culture where women are not taught to be visual or sexual like you said men are. So I’m confused and curious what still creates this lust for sex with different men by so many women and not the difference. Like it makes sense why men have that desire, because of how visual we are. It’s not just because of how sexy and beautiful women are but how arousing women are physically. And to top that off the variety women have in their looks, body and shapes and sizes to each other. I feel hypothetically also men would not have promiscuous desires if like every woman on earth basically looked the same facially, body parts wise, shape, maybe race and ethnicity all the same too. Like a big lust motivator too is not just women’s bodies and looks being sexy and highly arousing to men, but the great variety and diversity of women’s looks and body.
I often get in my straight bias and like i feel bad for straight women sometimes. As a straight guy, I just feel it seems like women don’t get the great physical variety from the male body that men get from female body. Women don’t just have varied looks and beauty comes in many forms for women. For example the fact that women have different body shapes. My opinion is guy’s bodies different simply by like fat, thin, muscularity, tall, short, but do men really have different “body shapes” from each other? That’s because men don’t have “curves” and if a man does, that’s not so attractive, which I would get. We like the sex we’re attracted to, to look and have body features of sex we’re attracted too. Like man boobs are unattractive, because the obvious reason straight women aren’t attracted to breasts. I know you said women can learn the breast fetish, but you said desire isn’t attached to it, so that’s what I mean. A man with wide hips can look funny too, because that’s a female trait or associate because of women usually have wider hips and pelvic than men for obvious biological reasons. Men don’t need wide hips since we don’t birth children. But I think men desire sex with various women, is like how a chocolate lover desires and loves to eat the various types of chocolates out there. It’s the love of such and beauty plus variety of such beauty. If women don’t feel that way about men’s bodies or men don’t provide such variety, why would they come even close to desiring sex with different men, when I’d think visual should be the biggest motivator of all.
Well, the sex drive is very strong. They would probably be no difference without the punishments and objectification directed at women.
When it comes to desiring multiple partners or monogamy there is very little sex difference. Somethings it’s because both strategies can reproduce genes well Such that both strategies have survived the eons.
Yeah but why very little difference for desiring multiple partners for women, when women don’t have the visual motivator from men’s bodies like I and men have for women’s bodies? I’d think there would be a big different with desire for multiple partners between men and women. It seems like without the visual motivator, a sex would be more interested in just a few people and monogamy. I feel the reason men desire sex with multiple women is because of how visual we are, and the beauty of women’s bodies and variety. Men’s bodies aren’t sexualized, men’s bodies aren’t as enticing or such body parts and there’s less variety between male bodies for women to want to be “connoisseurs of the male body, whereas, women have more visual variety with their bodies. So I don’t get what is causing such desire for women when to have such desire, it would seem visual and a lot of physical would have to be part of it. The reason is because multiple partners doesn’t fulfill emotional desires, but mostly physical lustful desires as you don’t really know or love people you are having casual sex with right? If you’re desiring sex with different people, it’s coming from a less emotional, and more purely physical lust
Well, because women are the sex objects they tend to be aroused by their partner finding them exciting. And maybe new partners find women more exciting than someone they have been with for a long time. Regardless of that only half of women prefer to have many partners while the other half prefer monogamy, which mirrors numbers for men. Another thing which can keep partners interested is deep connection which comes from monogamy.
At a very young age, girls and boys are subjected to how society wants them to be perceived, Girls are taught to play house and play with babies as well as kitchen supplies. While men are taught to be adventurous and play with more difficult toys than girls would have. During my social psychology class, we looked at Legos and the Legos meant for boys were much smaller than the Legos meant for girls. This indicates that females have a harder time playing with intricate things. Therefore, they may already feel that they are inferior to males. I read in a book that boys are forced to be masculine because, in the society we live in, boys are depicted to be masculine and invincible. Therefore, many men are unable to express themselves because they feel ashamed to show emotions. This affects their future relationships because they would be putting up a wall that would prevent further intimacy with their partner. Men have to suppress their emotions and it is upsetting because they must feel like they would explode from all the emotions they withhold.
Our sexual stereotypes put pressure on boys and girls and men and women to behave in specific ways and well this creates social patterns behavior where girls are a bit more likely to do some things and boys a bit more likely to do others, what is amazing is how similar we all are despite that. Our basic humanness is deeply rooted.
We think men and women are so different because of our behavior and the things we like. Turns out everything we know about gender comes from our environment and what we are told to do. When we are little, our parents buy us pink or blue clothes, we’re given sports balls or barbies, we watch Disney princess movies or movies about superheroes, and the list goes on. If we are a girl and we’re given barbies to play with as a child, we automatically associate femininity with barbies and what they look like. Though much of how we associate gender is based off of our family, I think most of it comes from stereotypes. As kids, everyone wants to fit in. Boys will be made fun of if they’re seen doing “girl activities” and vice versa. I think this has a big psychological impact and it will make that boy/girl think whatever they were doing is not okay in society and they will change to conform to societal gender norms. I think one of the reasons why women are not as respected as men is because men are seen as tougher. If we were all raised with no gender bias and no pressure from society to be one way or the other, men and women would be much more similar.
Cross-cultural comparisons also help us to see what is gendered. Basically, we make up a bunch of stuff about how women are supposed to be and how men are supposed to be that put us in straight jackets.
Why the erasure of trans and nonbinary people?
Not every post is about every gender. In this case trans and non-binary people are not socialized in any particular way. We don’t have stereotypes about how trans and non-binary people are. We do have stereotypes about how men and women are, AND they are socialized to be particular ways. None of this applies to trans and non-binary people but that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t talk about the issue.
It’s interesting to mention how stereotypes are what create people to act socially. We’re all human so it should be known that psychologically both genders are about the same. Stereotypes are what make people assume that men and women are different but that isn’t true. Men get criticized if they cry in public because men are supposed to be the “tough” sex; the ones that can’t show emotion but they have the ability to cry for being human. having emotions is a natural thing that shouldn’t be repressed due to your gender. Gender stereotypes ignore the fact that we’re all human. People immediately jump to assume the way someone is because of their gender. Yes, gender is who we are and we have different experiences due to it but psychologically we are still mostly the same.
Yes, different genders even do different things in different cultures, but then people think that it’s all natural, which boxes them in when gender needn’t do that.
Testosterone literally makes you not want to cry. But whatever, you’ve got your gender studies narrative.
I guess that explains why male athletes are bawling their heads off after they win a major championship – and right when their testosterone levels are especially high (testosterone levels rise when people are winning).
(Some theorize that testosterone stops tears but there’s no proof.)
Because winning also increases levels of cortisol which is a far stronger and more immediate effect.
Do a Google search on testosterone and “emotional regulation”. It’s literally fundamental to the regulation of emotion, and what is crying if not loss of control of your emotions?
Just saying that testosterone definitely doesn’t prevent men from crying.
Hang on, you just went from “there’s no proof” to “definitely not”.
There’s 605000 Google results in searching for “testosterone emotional regulator”. And yet your big retort is “nah”.
Like I said, men will bawl like a baby after they win a big championship, even though their testosterone levels are about as high as they can get. If testosterone blocked tears that wouldn’t happen.
And Google searches don’t equal science
Yes completely agree
Thanks for chiming in.
You can come up with a study that says women have equal interest in multiple partners. It’s kind of like asking people if they would like to be able to fix their car when it breaks down. Sounds ok in theory. But only a certain select set of people (mostly male) go beyond the vague thought bubble that it would be good to know how to fix a car, and actually disassemble their car’s engine in their garage, and put it back together again.
And there you have it, ticking a box on some survey questions is not the same as actually going and making it happen. When a woman ticks a box saying they’d definitely like sex with a stranger, they mean that they drooled over Justin Bieber in an edition of Cosmo. When a man says he’d definitely like sex with a stranger, it means that last night he actually cruised down Sunset Boulevard, and picked up a couple of hookers. A self imposed grading scale means you are grading yourself BY YOUR OWN STANDARDS and not by an objective standard.
And if it were true, then we should stop with all the rape and sexual assault hysteria.
First, women and men can have equal desire for sex but act differently, in the way you describe, for a couple of reasons. First, we teach men to be the active participants and we teach women to be the passive participants when it comes to sex. Secondly, we punish and shame women’s sexuality for doing the same thing that we celebrate men for. that creates different behavior even if the desire is similar.
Second, rape and sex are two different things. Sex is loving or at least fun while rape and sexual assault are violent and hurtful, and men don’t like to be assaulted assaulted anymore than women do.
Even if a woman is horny like a guy/ It makes sense that men would be more free in doing and thinking of having sex with a stranger that is female. Two big reasons and have to be factors too. Most men are stronger and I feel we do feel or have a protection as a result to not have to think or worry about things women typically have to think about when having sex or thinking about hooking up. I don’t mean to say it can’t happen, but I’ll be honest. And it might be why, sexual harassment or unwanted touching is usually more upsetting for a woman to deal with if a man says something to her or touches her vs a woman touching a man. It can be upsetting if a woman touches me but I don’t feel threatened, whereas that can defiinitely be threatening for a woman.
Yes, most or many guys would never rape a woman, but the great majority of rapes and sexual assaults committed are by men. It’s pretty for women doing it. So there’s that fact that I as a man have a freedom because of my size and stregnth where I can venture and more free in doing or thinking about just going ahead with casual sex with a stranger that’s female because of my size and because it’s rare for women to want to rape a man. Whereas, a woman having sex with a guy who is a stranger is dealig with a sex that is stronger than her and can be dangerous for her and the fact is she doesn’t know the guy and needs to know because of this and the majoriy of rapes commited are by men.
Women and men have similar desire but women may be less likely to act on it because of things like fear of strangers. And punishment from society. Other studies have found that women and men’s fantasies are more similar than what they actually want to do in real life.