She Wants An Abortion. He Doesn’t

pro_choice-7946731A man asked me this question:

If a couple are in a safe, sane, and committed relationship I think that the women should not have all the say in whether or not to have an abortion. 

It would be a shame for a guy to have his baby taken away from him because the woman didn’t want to grow the baby inside of her. 

I think that entitles him to at least a conversation.

A baby should not be denied a life just because a women doesn’t want to bear a child, I mean after all the point of life is to have offspring. 

I just think that a man should be just as entitled to his baby provided he has always treated the woman with respect and is, for lack of a better term, a “good man.” Yes, she bears more costs, but the baby is also the man’s so he should have at least 45% say.

I hope I haven’t caused you any offense with my opinion.

Here’s my response:

I’m not at all offended. And I appreciate your thoughtfulness.

Yes, if the woman and man are in a healthy and committed relationship, I feel they should at least have a conversation.

But here are some of my other thoughts:

Restrictions don’t stop abortion — they kill more women

In some times and places laws have been proposed or enacted saying a woman cannot get an abortion without the consent of the father.

I’m against restrictions on abortion because they don’t affect the level of abortion very much — but they do cause more women to die. Desperate women go out of state, out of the country, find illegal abortionists who are often unqualified and who kill the women, or they try to do it themselves and end up dying.

If the women have to go out of state, and especially if they have a waiting period once they have traveled many miles, they must spend more time raising funds, and then get the abortion at a later stage — which is more dangerous.

I seek to keep abortion to a minimum

I am for policies that keep abortion to a minimum: comprehensive sex education, contraception availability, and not shaming girls for their sexuality. Important because when they are shamed girls don’t use contraception — they don’t want others — or themselves — to think that they are “bad girls.”

Unfortunately, most people who are against abortion are also against the policies that most prevent it. So they shut down Planned Parenthood, which is mostly about providing contraception.

Pro-lifers aren’t really pro-life

In fact, most people who say they are pro-life are against many things that save lives: Obamacare, Medicaid, prenatal care for poor women, and food stamps for: children, the elderly, the disabled, the working poor, and people who can’t find work in a bad economy.

They are also against important things that save lives: environmental regulations, climate change legislation, sensible gun laws that screen for terrorism, mental illness and domestic violence…

They aren’t pro-life so much as wanting to control women. So they make sure that men make decisions about women’s bodies.

Fertilized egg ≠ a person

And a fertilized egg is not equivalent to a person.

What if anti-abortion protesters marched on a stem cell research clinic and a fire broke out. Let’s say someone had to make a choice between saving one 2-year-old or saving vats full of fertilized eggs (people?). Which would you choose to save?

I haven’t met one pro-lifer who would save the thousands of fertilized eggs over the one child.

Can a man have equal say if they disagree?

You say,

I just think that a man should be just as entitled to his baby provided he has always treated the woman in a respectable way and is for lack of a better term a “good man.”

Can you have equal say when you disagree on a matter like this?

Since you can’t have equal say here, she must make the final decision since she bears much higher costs of the pregnancy.

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About BroadBlogs

I have a Ph.D. from UCLA in sociology (emphasis: gender, social psych). I currently teach sociology and women's studies at Foothill College in Los Altos Hills, CA. I have also lectured at San Jose State. And I have blogged for Feminispire, Ms. Magazine, The Good Men Project and Daily Kos. Also been picked up by The Alternet.

Posted on September 23, 2019, in reproductive rights and tagged , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 52 Comments.

  1. After reading this article, I still have the same opinion that I did before I started reading, that the woman  should have a final say in what she wants to do to her body. I will acknowledge and agree with the guy from the beginning of the article, where the man should be entitled to a conversation. I do believe that out of respect, that a conversation should happen between the couple, but ultimately the woman should have a final say in what she wants to do because she is the one that is going to have to be carrying a baby for around 9 months. I never really thought about the idea that restrictions do not stop abortion until reading this article.  After reading, it does make sense how much we as a society are putting woman in danger by not giving them the proper resources due to tight restrictions on abortions. Who should be able to tell someone what they can’t and can do to their body. It just fathoms me that people think that they should be able to stop woman from having an abortion and telling woman what procedures they can do with their bodies when it is none of their business. People are entitled to their opinion, but I feel that we as a society should not even try to ban abortion, but there should always be resources for woman who may want them.

  2. Charlotte Greatwood

    I have always thought the the “pro-life” side of things was incredibly lucky in being able to coin their slogan in such a way. As discussed in the blog, being “pro-life” is only about abortions not other things. I have never met a woman who just woke up and decided it would be a fun idea to get an abortion. I think women who decided abortion is the right choice, have gone through a lot and the choice isn’t usually easy. My best friend became pregnant at age 15, even though she was taking a contraceptive pill regularly. Luckily, she easily had access to a Planned Parenthood where she was guided through this tough decision. We were in the first semester of sophomore year, having a baby would have ended many of the possibilities in her life. My friend didn’t “want” an abortion, but it was the only good choice in her situation. I don’t believe the abortion rights debate is “pro-choice vs. pro-life”, I think it’s “pro-choice” and anti-choice. It is possible to believe that having an abortion isn’t the right, and still be “pro-choice”. Anti-abortionists can be pro-choice. But “pro-life” campaigners are really just anti-women’s right to make choices.

  3. “My Body My Choice” is a slogan used for pro-choice advocates, but what some pro-lifers fail to understand is that it does not mean there should not be a conversation between two people in a committed relationship, or even that women LIKE having abortions. It must be unenjoyable because it is a very invasive procedure, though some women do not have any other choice. It’s a last option for most, it is the last option available when contraceptives like birth control or condoms fail, or when there was a lack of contraceptives used. I personally believe there is a huge fallacy within the term “pro-life” because it puts the life of a not-yet-existent being above the life of the woman carrying the unborn child. I also think that there should be no justification needed when it comes to having an abortion. Pro-choice advocates will often ask questions like “what if the child was conceived from rape and she does not want it?” or “what if she was only in middle school and made a mistake?” Questions like these actually insinuate that the case for abortions should be once in a blue moon, an anomaly, when the truth is a woman should be able to terminate the pregnancy as long as one condition is met: she does not want a child. Not just in the case where the health of either the baby or the mother in compromised, not just in the case where a woman does not have the means to support the child, but simply when she does not want to have a child. If pro-life advocates were being honest with themselves, they would realize the only reason they want the woman to keep the child is to see her suffer and be reminded of a mistake they made.

  4. “It would be a shame for a guy to have his baby taken away from him because the woman didn’t want to grow the baby inside of her.” I think this depends on conversations that were had prior to becoming pregnant. There are many factors. Has he considered any health risks, complications that may have been discovered once she found out she was pregnant, etc? It is absolutely his right to discuss and support, even disagree with the decision of having the child. Maybe, I am looking at the emotional aspect of the man losing his child and how heart wrenching that must be if in fact he wanted the child. The thing that is troubling is that sometimes a conversation turns into persuasion. Even the whole “he’s a good guy” comment is evasive because how many times have we witnessed, I thought he was a good guy, or once the baby was here, he didn’t want me anymore because I wasn’t fun… bottomline is childrearing changes the couple, no matter how committed the relationship is. At the end of the day, if the “good guy” that wanted the “say” leaves, she is left to figure it out regardless … ultimately, it’s the woman’s body that has to house the child. So therefore, it’s her decision.

  5. I certainly agree with the idea that Pro-Life is just a blanket term for the continued control over a woman’s body. I am in agreement with the idea that both parties ought to have an extensive discourse over what should be done and that the male at least have his opinions weighed in on, but the final choice would be in the female as she is subject to the physical rigors of childbearing and labor. It’s still a very sensitive subject, but women should have the right to choose. The post acknowledges the potential dangers of childbirth and how abortion may be necessary to save a life. If a pregnancy is the result of a rape or unintentional, then choice is important because the alternative could lead to greater trouble. A child may be brought into a broken home, to those who are unable or unwilling to support them, or simply abandoned. The idea that Abortion rights would lead to promiscuity and unsafe sex is an unfounded one used to twist opinion on the matter. Women should have the right of choice, but should still consider their partners wishes.

  6. Yes, I do believe she should take conderastion of his feelings, but ultimately it’s the woman choice. She is the one who is going to have to deal with the pregnancy and he doesn’t know how her body is going to react to the pregnancy sense everyone is different. I think if he really wants the baby and she agrees to carry it, he should ask himself if he is fully ready to be responsible for it. For example, if she does chose to carry it, but in the agreement, is that he gets full custody and she has nothing to do with the baby (because you can’t force someone to care for a child they told you from the start they didn’t want it) would he able to care for it? I understand that yes, ultimately the guy did help make the child but in the beginning it’s not a baby yet and at the end of the day, women are the one making the sacrifice with our bodies when we get pregnant, they are some women that have died at childbirth? I think when a woman is ready to raise a human she wouldn’t have doubts in her mind, but it’s much easier to say “yes, I want a baby” then to actually be ready for a baby.

  7. First off, I really appreciate how the man asked his question and expressed his opinion. He wasn’t does trying to start an argument on the topic, but rather have a mature and civilized conversation about abortion. I do agree that when it comes to the decision of whether or not to get an abortion the father does have a right to express his feelings and opinions about it. Saying that I don’t think that just being in a healthy relationship is a good enough reason to not have an abortion. You need to consider how financially stable you are if you can afford to have a child. I think that talking about it is the healthiest thing to do, but ultimately it should be the woman’s decision.

  8. This is such a simple concept to me, it’s a woman’s body it’s a woman’s choice. I do agree that if someones a couple is in a relationship then there should be a discussion about whether or not they really want to have a child together, but to for a man to say whether or not she can keep it just because he wants a child isn’t far to the woman. She is the one who has to carry it around in her body for 9 months. She shouldn’t be forced to carry a child she doesn’t want. And women should be able to have the final say in it. There are so many factors that can also make a woman need/want to have an abortion. The pregnancy could be high risk which means both her and the baby can die, she could be in an abusive relationship and not want to have a child with that person, if the baby dies in the womb and it needs to be removed that constitutes as an abortion, she could be unable to care of a child emotionally, financially, mentally, physically. There could be a number of reasons, but at the end of the day, it’s her body so it’s her choice. If people don’t want women to get abortions than like it says in the article than women should get access to birth control, better sex education, and we shouldn’t shame women for wanting to be safe and owning their sexuality. Men shouldn’t make the final decisions about women’s bodies because they aren’t women.

  9. I believe that when a women is pregnant and does hold someone else’s child in them I definitely believe that the man should have somewhat of a say in a conversation whether to keep the baby or not but not the final say. Having a baby is a two person deal, while having sex people especially young adults should understand that there is a huge responsibility that comes with it if the women becomes pregnant. I also believe that abortions should be a thing and shouldn’t be banned nor should . Abortions aren’t a good thing nor are they necessarily a bad thing either under the right circumstances and not handed out like candy for some people to just keep fixing their mistakes. I think people have this idea that women do get abortions to get rid of their mistake and don’t think about anything but themselves and I don’t think thats necessarily the whole case. While making a choice like this it isn’t an easy one. This is making a choice not only for you and your partner but an unborn child and that decision will stick with you for the rest of your life. People are quick to judge especially because they have never been put in that position to make such an important choice that will change a couple peoples lives. Abortion’s save so many women’s lives lots of women are put in danger while being pregnant and have to choose to save themselves or their unborn child and still may have complications and not be super healthy. You also have to look at the environment that the baby will be put into, are the parents ready, will they be able to provide for the baby, and do they understand that their whole entire world will change. I believe that planned parenthood should be available to everyone; and that contraceptions aren’t a bad thing if you’re not ready to become a parent and to not be ashamed of what you’re doing. When it comes down to it I think that the women does have the final say. It is her body, her health, and her future.

  10. Christopher Salas

    I believe there should be conversations throughout the relationship so that when she does get pregnant, the couple knows how they feel on the situation. These conversations are important to have for times like these. However, if for some reason theres a change in feelings, I believe she has the final say in whether or not she gets an abortion. If the woman obeys her partner’s wishes and carries on with the pregnancy, It isn’t fair for her to carry a child for nine months when she doesn’t want the baby in the first place. Yes, the father helped create the baby, but he isn’t the one that’s going to be carrying it. Ultimately, it is a woman’s body so it is a woman’s choice.

  11. I agree that women should be able to have the choice to choose whether they would want to abort the child or not. However, I feel like the father’s choice matters when he wants to have an active role if the child were to be born. He is part of the reason why they may have a child growing. I think they should come to a consensus because he has treated the pregnant woman with respect and did not indicate that he would have mistreated the child. It will take a lot of discussion and understanding to find a consensus. It is understandable if one is not met because it is a very hard life decision. To come to an agreement, they may wish to seek other options than abortion. If the pregant woman reall does not want to have a child, than I believe it is acceptable for her to have a safe abortion. At the end of the day, she is the one who would have a more active role in the pregnancy.

  12. It’s hard to believe that anyone would still have an opinion like that but, with no disrespect to men, I’m a firm believer in “no uterus, no opinion”. The relationship between the man doesn’t really matter to me in this situation, its the relationship between a woman and her own body that is being discussed. She should have the right to choose. An abortion is not an easy thing to go through physically or emotionally and I don’t believe women choose to abort easily. When children are born to people who are not ready (financially, emotionally or otherwise) to be parents it is not good for the child in the long run. I think what pro-lifers don’t fully grasp is that they are forcing a life but not caring for that life. What happens to the fetus after the birth?

  13. Yes, I do agree that if a man and a woman are in a safe and committed relationship there should at least be a discussion about abortion, it’s only fair. But I do not think the man should have any say in what the final decision should be. I think what a lot of men lack to realize is the number of battles and complications that come with pregnancy. A lot of people think that abortions are done out of being selfish, but that is hardly the case. Maybe the woman was not mentally or financially ready to bring another human being into this world. There’s also the thought that once the baby is born the man might walk out of the mother’s and the baby’s life. There is so much more the woman has to think about than the man. Overall, women have to go through so much more when it comes to making the decision of abortion. What a woman does with her body should not be anybody else’s decision but hers.

  14. Yes, I do agree that if a man and a woman are in a safe and committed relationship there should at least be a discussion about abortion, it’s only fair. But I do not think the man should have any say in what the final decision should be. I think what a lot of men lack to realize is the number of battles and complications that come with pregnancy. A lot of people think that abortions are done out of being selfish, but that is hardly the case. Maybe the woman was not mentally or financially ready to bring another human being into this world. There’s also the thought that once the baby is born the man might walk out of the mother’s and the baby’s life. There is so much more the woman has to think about than the man. Overall, women have to go through so much more when it comes to making the deciaion of abortion. What a woman does with her body should not be anybody else’s decision but hers.

  15. This presents an interesting position because while a woman’s body is entirely hers, the fetus growing inside of her is made up of her, and her partner. While in any healthy, committed relationship a conversation about a potential abortion is expected, it is ultimately the woman’s body that will bear the consequences. For this reason, the “’good man’” described in the scenario should respect the woman’s decision. For a woman to choose an abortion is not taken lightly and certainly not equated to a form of birth control, as some policymakers may like to believe. The choice to undergo this procedure has intense emotional and physical consequences, and ultimately affects the woman far more than the man. Alternatively, if a woman chooses to cede to her partner and continue the pregnancy, the partner has the option to change his mind and physically walk away, a choice the woman cannot make. While it may seem “unfair” to a man that their female partner gets to make the ultimate decision as to the existence of their unborn child, I encourage them to recall that the majority of policy in the US concerning a woman’s body is decided on by men- and no one asked a woman.

    • Yes. And the worst part of it is that those who are most against abortion are often also against that which is most effective at stopping abortion: sex education, access to birth control, and not shaming girls for sex so that they will use the birth control and not avoid it out of fear of being labeled a “bad girl” for being prepared for sex.

  16. Antonia De La Torre

    Well why does she want the abortion? Maybe she does not see a future with her significant other and does not want to be tied to them for life with a child. It is her body and her decision whether she wants to bear a child or not. The significant other can go impregnate someone else if they want to have a child so badly. He says he should have at least 45% say in the matter but I do not agree because a pregnancy is nine months of the woman being incapacitated, she will not be able to work for at least half of her pregnancy depending on her job, and then when the fetus turns into a baby, the woman will have to breast feed it for at least a year or she will be lactating, another yearly inconvenience. Who will take care of the baby while she goes back to work, if she can due to health and company policy. What if he changes his mind, decides he does not want to be a father and leaves the woman to care for the child on her own, will she just have to take her chances then? Or what if they decide to separate, divorce is so common. Also, how old are they? Because if they are teenagers, the situation is even more dire, the girl will most likely not be able to finish high school. I do not agree with the sentiment that the point of life is to have offspring, what a close minded thing to say.

    • I agree with all your points. And even if he did get 45% of the say and she got 55% of the say, when it comes to a decision like this whoever has most say actually makes the decision.

  17. I think the woman should have the final say on what to do. The father should have the opportunity to voice his opinions and concerns, if he plans to be part of the child and mother’s life, but he has no right to decide for the mother. I agree that abortions should be kept to a minimum but the more anyone tries to tell women that they can’t get an abortion, the more desperate they will become to find a solution and most of those situations will cost more money and will be more dangerous. For example, self-induced abortions using coat hangers can result in death. A lot of these desperate attempts stem from not having enough money for the real procedure or being scared of the situation getting out to friends/family. Instead of stigmatizing abortion, schools should educate kids on the facts behind it, so that that way people can form opinions for themselves instead of being fed a biased view. Schools should have better and more in depth sex education that should continue into high school and not just taught once in elementary or middle school. I think sex education has more of an impact if taught in high school since that’s when some people will start becoming sexually active.

  18. Odethe Virgen Barajas

    I think abortion is a very difficult topic to talk about only because there’s not a right response to it from people. We have those who are “pro life” or “pro choice” and I personally don’t think that either exists and are very flawed on their own. I completely support women in terms of making the decision of whether or not to get an abortion but if there is a significant other, I do also believe there should be some form of communication before the decision is made, and even then, women should have the final say because it’s their body and carrying a child for 9 months could be a lot for someone. The process is self changing and based on what I’ve seen from friends, it could be self damaging for your emotional state. There’s a lot more risks that women go through than men do when it comes to pregnancy. The judgement that women face every day for their decision or standpoint on abortion is truly horrifying. Even walking into Planned Parenthood with no intention to get an abortion but just for other needs can be looked over. Planned Parenthood gives women a lot of support with the services they offer an getting rid of that would be a pain and make things more difficult for women to obtain certain things. I think that the conversation between couples should be about supporting one another, and yes, the conversation of abortion is heavy but there are a lot of different points that should be put into consideration.

    • Different people certainly do have different views. But since there is no clear consensus I believe she should make the decision because the decision affects her much more than her partner or anyone else. Plus, making abortion illegal has almost no effect on women trying to get abortions, since desperate women will do what they need to to deal with a situation like this, and to often end up dying in the process.

      I think it’s best to focus on what is most effective in stopping abortion: sex education, access to birth control, and not shaming girls for sex so that they will use the birth control and not avoid being prepared for fear of seeming like a “bad girl” to herself or to others.

  19. I agree with the man who asked the question that the conversation should take place. But, in my opinion, the abortion issue is not about a baby being “taken away” from a man or a woman for that matter. I believe abortion is about the woman whose body is involved in continuing to create a baby for 9 months. I think this line of thinking is similar to entitlement. A man nor a baby is entitled to a woman’s body, regardless of the man being in a “safe, sane, and committed relationship” with her or the baby being her child. Nobody is entitled to her body, and she doesn’t owe anybody the use of her uterus for 9 months, regardless of their relationship to her. But, that doesn’t mean the conversation shouldn’t take place. Communication is an integral part of every adult relationship, and both the man’s and the woman’s intentions should be fully understood by the other party. While it should be the woman’s decision, I understand the perspective that a man would want his input taken into consideration when this decision is being made.

  20. How can anyone decide what she should do with her own body.

  21. I believe in encouraging abortion so we can have consequence-free sex. But if you choose to keep it you can’t extort money from the guy if he doesn’t want it. In prehistory women raised the kids together and men had no concept of “their” kids.

    • I actually believe in keeping abortion as rare as possible, but making laws against it has almost no effect because desperate women and girls will do whatever they can to abort, and often end up dying. What works is sex education, access to birth control, and not shaming girls were having sex – so that they will use birth control. (Girls often won’t be prepared if they are worried that they won’t seem like good girls if they are.)

      Men who don’t want babies should use birth control themselves and talk with their partners about how they feel about abortion before having sex.

      • Birth control deadens the sexual experience and can mess up people’s hormones. The best thing to do is just have regular sex and put all the rights and responsibilities on the woman since its her body not the man’s.

      • Birth control may affect men’s sexual experience negatively (condoms) but improves women’s experience by removing the distraction of worry over pregnancy. Some methods affect hormones more than others. Some methods affect hormones in positive ways, like regulating her period, no more menstrual cramps, less likely to get ovarian cancer.

      • “Men who don’t want babies should use birth control themselves ”

        What if they didn’t because the woman lied and said she was using it? Almost all methods are for the female. Why should the male pay up when the woman used him?

      • If he doesn’t want an abortion he should use a condom to protect himself, and not rely on her.

  22. I don’t even agree with “the point of life is to have offspring” so the rest is pretty moot.

    Anyone can be anti-choice if they like, but if that’s a belief you hold very dearly, then you’d better make sure BEFORE you have sex that your partner feels the same. Under any circumstance. And there are a LOT of circumstances.

    • That’s a really good point.

    • “I don’t even agree with “the point of life is to have offspring” so the rest is pretty moot.”

      But that is the most objectively true thing you have read in your lifetime. If that is not the point of life, what is? As Richard Dawkins would say, as an objective scientist, life is subservient to the selfish gene.

      • I know a lot of people who have never reproduced who have fulfilling lives. And I know many people who have reproduced who don’t.

        I’ve always wondered what the point of living is if the only point is to reproduce someone else. So what’s the point of bothering? If the only thing our offspring are supposed to do is reproduce? It’s all so meaningless. I believe each of us has great potential to develop.

      • Look up in the dictionary what distinguishes life from a rock. OK, I’ll do it:

        Life: the condition that distinguishes animals and plants from inorganic matter, including the capacity for growth, REPRODUCTION, functional activity, and continual change preceding death.

        That is LITERALLY the meaning of life. The dictionary says so.

      • Not all life is equivalent. I’ll bet plenty of people who are against abortion have swatted a mosquito or squashed a spider. Bug life is not equivalent to human life. A fertilized egg is not equivalent to an actual human being.

      • “A fertilized egg is not equivalent to an actual human being.”

        What distinguishes a fetus from what you call “an actual human being”? Let’s take a look at your principles and see if they are consistent.

      • If for some reason a scientist had serval fetuses and a fire broke out, would you save a few fetuses or one screaming child?

  23. The theory of sexual socialism holds that your body is not yours, rather it is the property of the community. This means that the government has certain obligations towards you: maintaining your body at a level such that other members of the community will find it desirable. Because of the effort put into the other person’s body by the government you will find them desirable as well and you will engage in a series of sexual transactions for mutual pleasure. Therefore, aborting a future member of the community for your own convenience is simply capitalistic and capitalistic thinking is the reason the world is in the state it is in. ‘the decision on whether or not to abort a future member of the community should hinge on potential defects that person has that cannot be fixed by modern science. A non-seeing or non-mobile person for example who cannot be upgraded beyond their condition will live a horrible life being undesired, especially because everyone else’s desirability has ben upgraded by the government.

  24. I think your answer to the gentleman’s question would have been better without the introduction of leftest politics.

    I fully support abortion, at least early in the process; although, I can appreciate the arguments for permitting abortions up to the child’s age of 21, given how so many kids are turning out today 🙂

    With that said, I think the woman should be the one to have the final word on whether or not she is going to have a child. If she doesn’t want to have one, end of conversation.
    And if she wants to have the child, I think a single parent mom is a bad idea; but I feel it is her right to made a bad decision – at least she in consistent in making bad decisions (i.e.; poor choice of the child’s father)

    • i’m just pointing out that people who are pro-life don’t tend to be pro life on all issues. And that’s a fact. Pro life when it comes to fertilized eggs but not once people are born. Yes, those of us on the left care about the life of human beings once they are born. And we don’t see fertilized eggs as being equivalent to actual human beings.

  25. “In fact, most people who say they are pro-life are against many things that save lives”

    Would you be in favour of something that saves lives, aka a 98% income tax rate, with all the money being sent to overseas aid?

    If not, then you’re not arguing a principled position, you’re just quibbling over the exact percentage you want the government to take from people in the name of your pet theories.

    “sensible gun laws that screen for terrorism”

    I watching the news today about Chinese muslims in “re-education camps”, aka concentration camps, because they dare to have wrong think about religion. If you were Chinese in the Uighur where the government is trying to wipe out your community, would you be glad that the government has disarmed your people? Are you glad the people under Stalin and Mao were disarmed, and do you consider the 10s of millions of defenceless people slaughtered to be a net savings of life?

    “And a fertilized egg is not equivalent to a person.”

    Of course, the man with the query here isn’t asking about fertiilized eggs. There’s an ancient belief that we should distinguish between a “formed” and “unformed” fetus. In other words acquiring a human shape. In todays scientific terminology, perhaps one might talk in terms of cell specialisation, the fetus is not just a blob of non specific cells frozen in a vat, but has acquiried the various parts that make a person. In ancient reckoning this was around day 40. An example of this is Vindicianus from the 4th century. If your position is so morally clear, why did basically all ancient people have a severe penalty if you caused a woman to lose her unborn baby? After all, it’s just a few cells to you.

    • A 98% income tax rate would not save lives unless the 98% income tax rate were only on people are making Enormous amounts of money. If you have so much money that no extra income makes a dent in your Ability to live and thrive, or if you still have plenty of money left over after that 98% income tax, then I have no problem with it. I much prefer that some people are able to be saved with medical attention and decent incomes than that other people won’t have money that they will never be able to use anyway. So yeah, that’s fine given the constraints I suggest.

      On gun control I don’t think that people with arms are any threat to the government’s Military. If everyone in Hong Kong tried to use their guns against their government they wouldn’t win. But if you look at countries with strong gun control they have hardly any gun killings.

      A human being should have more rights than either a fertilized egg or an unformed fetus or a formed fetus.

  26. Reblogged this on Rcooley123's Blog and commented:
    Another excellent blog post concerning women’s reproductive rights, along with the rights of male partners when the abortion issue is involved. I agree wholeheartedly with her insights. – rjc

  27. I am a man and I decide what happens with my body, nobody else has that right. I have my own beliefs and nobody has the right to impose their beliefs on me. Similarly, I have no right to decide or even have an opinion on what someone else does with their body, male or female.

    • Yes, I am amazed that some people think that they should have more control over another person’s body than the person themselves. I’m also amazed that some people think that a fertilized egg should have more rights than a human woman.

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