Bucket Lists and F*ck It Lists

Casual sex can block you from finding meaningful sex. Do you agree or disagree?

By Pamela Robinson

The internet has “disrupted” courting.

Couples sit side by side, not talking, computers or phones on their laps.

The events of courting, including breaking up, are delivered via text message.

Pornography in all forms is easy to access on the Internet.

How will relationships survive through the twenty-first century?

We’ve all heard of the bucket list. Mine has such items as travel to Machu Picchu, Greece, the Galapagos, Panama, Cuba. Have great grandchildren. Outlive my mother, who lived to be 98 taking only two regular prescription medicines. Experience a great and lasting love.

But lately I have overheard conversations that lead me to believe that many men have a different sort of list; I call it a f*ckit list.

Items on the f*ck it list

Items on the f*ck it list include elaborate blow jobs (plain oral sex is probably too mundane (the operative word is “swallows”), anal sex, group sex (threesomes, foursomes, all sorts), bondage, sex in public places, voyeuristic sex, and no doubt many other experiences.

Sometimes it’s combinations of things like watching someone else have sex with animals. Does that count as two items on the list?

The predominate feature of these sexual adventures seems to be that women are reduced to objects, degraded and depersonalized. Participants, perhaps, but being passive is not a negative outcome for these guys.

What we used to call making love, is now called casual sex, a f*ck.

When my first husband and I were dating, an old high school friend told us he had a girlfriend who belonged to the Sigma Kappa sorority. My ex was disgusted when someone inquired, “Are you getting any sticking off that SK?” I’m not sure what today’s young men would think about a question like that.

One of my friends said that young men don’t even talk to women anymore when they are in bed because in internet porn, women don’t talk.

Do these young men have a f*ckit list?

Two souls bonding

“Our Souls At Night,” starring Robert Redford and Jane Fonda

In the movie “Our Souls at Night” two senior citizens have a different sort of relationship. They sleep in the same bed together, share intimate thoughts, but don’t have sex. Louis (Robert Redford) meets with his men friends only to be teased and tormented about his “stamina” and “energy.” Even though they have all known Louis and Addie (Jane Fonda) for many years, they make assumptions about their relationship as if Louis had a f*ckit list.

Addie’s reputation is also in question. In the book, even Addie’s son makes that assumption and demands that his mother never see Louis again, threatening her with no contact with her beloved grandson if she doesn’t comply. When I read the book, I concluded that the author disliked women, especially strong women. I felt that a strong woman like Addie would not kowtow to her son’s unfair demands, yet she did. I was relieved that Jane Fonda or the screen writer chose to alter the ending of the movie, retaining Addie’s dignity and independence.

What is the significance of the f*ckit list? 

Do men really see women as objects for sexual use and possibly abuse? President Trump is charged with sexual abuse by many women, but he is not damaged by this fact. Neither was Harvey Weinstein for many years. Even President Clinton didn’t show very good judgement, but is still widely admired.

Do the items on “the list” contribute to a relationship, or are they just proof of male dominance and power?

Perhaps some men would interpret the list as proof of a woman’s love and affection if they are extremely insecure. Perhaps they show a desperate need to find intimacy between the sexes yet a failure to do so.

Conquering and being conquered is not caring. Demeaning the opposite sex is not a sign of affection. And I cannot accept this list without knowing why. Why would men in good conscience check off these boxes?

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About BroadBlogs

I have a Ph.D. from UCLA in sociology (emphasis: gender, social psych). I currently teach sociology and women's studies at Foothill College in Los Altos Hills, CA. I have also lectured at San Jose State. And I have blogged for Feminispire, Ms. Magazine, The Good Men Project and Daily Kos. Also been picked up by The Alternet.

Posted on August 13, 2018, in relationships, sex and sexuality and tagged , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 24 Comments.

  1. I have enjoyed both casual and ‘meaningful’ sex, although I hate to use that word since really good casual sex feels great and feels quite meaningful at the time. I am not the “making love” type, those words give me the heebie jeebies and they’re forbidden at my house, where we f**k, and if we’re tired, we just have sex. Which doesn’t mean I don’t have a deep and loving connection with my partner.

    I think if you’re in a committed, not to mention monogamous, relationship with someone, an F list is disrespectful. Fantasies should be shared with partners and whatever both agree on is fair game. But having a list of demands, or specific, performative expectations is troublesome as far as consent goes, and doesn’t feel loving, or even very sexy.

    • Thanks for adding your perspective to this.

      • As I have been saying to you, there are LOTS of women out here like Joy. More than you really think. Such women obviously do NOT suffer from sexual repression.

      • Well my belief about how women and men feel is based on data that show that basically half of both women and men prefer many partners and about half of women and men prefer monogamy.

        Data also shows that nearly half of American women experience major sexual dysfunctions like no to low interest in sex, painful sex, difficulty well my belief about how women and men feel is based on data that show that basically half of both women and men prefer many partners and about half of women and men prefer monogamy.

        Data also shows that nearly half of American women experience major sexual dysfunctions like no to low interest in sex, painful sex, difficulty with orgasm. I have had a great deal of experience living in this category.

        That’s not natural. And my own experience is not natural. I was much more interested in sexuality at age 10 then at age 25. There is something wrong with that.

        And I know that my lack of interest came when I felt guilty because of my church, my friends, my mom. I damped down every sexual urge I had until it went away. I have students who have written about the same phenomenon. I have seen writings from other women who talk about the same phenomenon. I written about this all on my blog.

        Even among women who enjoy sex a large percentage of them need a vibrator. That’s also not natural.

        So why is it that half of American women experience major sexual dysfunctions and half don’t (they can have an orgasm, enjoy sex, but many of them still need a vibrator — not natural and also a sign of sexual dysfunction )?

        We are not socially determined by our society. We are all a mix of the culture we live in, the interactions we have, and the personality we are born with. So someone could grow up in the culture we live in which slut-shames girls but maybe she has a personality that is less affected by that, maybe she has parents who are more sex-positive.

        In my case Not only did I have a society that slut-shames girls, not only did I grow up in a church that taught us we would go to hell if we were sexual, and most of my friends were from my church, and so was my mom. I also had a personality that strives to be a good girl. So I took it all to heart. I had also a internalized the beauty standard and felt that I came up short, which was a huge distraction. Put it all together and I ended up with virtually no interest in sex.

        Women who feel good about their bodies are less likely to be affected negatively. But large numbers of women do feel bad about their bodies. Some of my students say that they deal with it OK because their boyfriends tell them they are beautiful and so that helps them. Others say their boyfriends tell them they’re beautiful but they don’t know if they are just saying that so there still distracted.

        Anyway, you look behind the root cause of all of this: both slut-shaming women and Objectification and patriarchy lies behind it. I will be writing more about how, But in a nutshell, patriarchal society is that passed the name through the male, past property through the male, and have male-headed clans need to know who daddy is. So you restrict women sexuality but not men’s. You stone women to death but not men. You slut-shame women in high school but not men. You also reduce women to their body parts and judge them away on their sexual allure.

  2. I’ve never heard of such men…maybe I have kept healthy company. I just wish the relations mean to people what they (ideally) stand for.

    • I’m glad that a number of men have shared that they find the phenomenon unrelatable. It’s not everyone. Whereas some women seem interested in engaging just f*ing too.

      Hopefully the f*ers will find each other and so will the love makers.

      • “Hopefully the f*ers will find each other and so will the love makers.”

        Well, what is truly ironic about the f**%#ers is that they really do not want one another when it comes to relationships. They only desire one another for casual sex, only.

        As I have written on many occasions: promiscuous men do not want promiscuous women as their girlfriend. They only want such women strictly for sex. The same goes for promiscuous women. . Promiscuous women eschew promiscuous men for relationships. You would think they would “naturally” be made for one another.

      • I’d like to see some data on that. I wouldn’t be surprised if people have a double standard for themselves and others. And I know that open marriages are often difficult because of the jealousy issue — even where both partners subscribe to the idea.

  3. What’s wrong with a sex bucket list as long as men aren’t asking women to do things they don’t want like in porn such as anal sex or stuff?

    • Maybe she will write in and say. I think her concern is that from what she’s heard things are changing too much in the direction she described. Some women might have their own F*ck it lists too, But one would hope that there are many ways of having a relationship that are not objectifying.

      • Because of social media, things are more open and known. But I think there’s always been sex bucket lists. I believe there are plenty of women who have them too, but in different ways. Guys are more about hot women and different women and sex stuff like that and such. But women have things I believe they’ve wanted to try sexually, that they’d hope to do. They are called “fantasies” basically. To me a sex bucket list is fantasy but what a person wants to do in real life instead of just having it in their thoghts. Why does wanting a relationship have to always be seen as the virtuous desire over others? Like that’s better than wanting casual sex.

        A person wanting just a relationship might not necessarily be because of supposed emotional, high character reasons. But many people who are clingy or can’t stand being alone so have to have a companion and want someone long term for such reasons or because they feel they should be married by so and so time. And also perhaps for some, because they aren’t really thart visual, sexual or don’t have a high sex drive. So it’s easier for the emotion to be on the forefront and not see the appeal or care for casual sex, but not because of higher maturity reasons, but aren’t visual, thus not as sex driven. If a person has a high sex drive and visual, it’s easier to understand how they could desire casual sex at times or put more emphasis on sex or even sex bucket lists. You’re more energized if you are visual and have a high sex drive and as a result, more lusty and hornier based on physical qualities.

      • First, a survey showed that about half of Americans, both women and men, prefer multiple partners and the other half – Again pretty much equal numbers of women and men, prefer monogamy.

        Scientists can see how that could work for evolutionary purposes on each side. You will probably have more children if you sleep around but the children will be more likely to survive if both parents are there to take care of them.

        So I don’t think that one side needs to put the other down. If it’s in your genes, it’s in your genes. I just hope that the monogamous find each other and the polyamorous find each other. And that if you are polyamorous you make sure to care for any children that are yours, which I understand is common in polyamorous relationships these days.

        Otherwise, I don’t know that a f*ck it list is horrible so long as no one is left feeling used and abused. And I think that Pamela’s concern was that one side of that equation might be taking over the society. But maybe they are just the louder side.

      • “But one would hope that there are many ways of having a relationship that are not objectifying.”

        Just because you have a f**^k list does not equate to objectification.

        There are men and women alike who engage in non-relationship sex (casual/f*$k buddy). Women are more likely to have f%&k buddies than men.

      • Sure. One woman wrote on this blog about how in her relationship it’s a f*ck they want, not lovemaking. But no one is getting hurt. And for that reason I don’t call it objectifying sex.

        Objectification happens when other’s feelings don’t matter. They are just seen as objects to be used. Which is what Pamela seems to be describing. “OK I can check that off my list. Who cares how you feel.“

  4. I wonder where we are heading! Of course, there are men with an F it list but fortunately, there are also men who still believe in a healthy relationship and friendship. We can just hope that their number keeps increasing…

  5. Lots of men I know have a bucket list (including myself) and they do NOT revolve around sex or even women.

    When it comes to relationships (that are not casual), men tend to value a woman’s sexual companionship far greater than women. It is not that we do not value non sexual companionship. I just think it is probably 60/40 or maybe even 50/50. This is just who we are as men. Women need to understand this and accept it. Stop badgering us for who we are as men.

    Women, when it comes to relationships, tend to value a man’s non-sexual companionship more so than the sexual companionship. Surveys and studies reveal that most women do NOT even have sex in the top 5 things they want or desire or feel important in a relationship. Obviously if men think differently, this is going to cause a problem.

    The hypocrisy of this is that women do value sexual companionship with men who they do NOT want relationships. But then turn around and try to impose a largely non-sexual companionship on the men whom they want a long term relationship. This is just plain silly. The only way this will work is if the said man allows himself to be emasculated. Just what man wants this?

    A suggestion for women: How about treating both groups of men the same in terms of sexual desirability? After all, you claim you want “equality.” Right?

    The idea that we men can ONLY make “fucklists” as opposed to bucket lists is just plain asinine.

    I am so tired of reading these pieces online written largely by women and their male feminist knuckleheads berating men for who we are as men. These pieces really echo misandry.

    PS: What about all the women out here who have their own fucklists? I guess they have a free pass as usual.

    • Well, she didn’t say all men. I read her a piece as saying that this behavior seem to be increasingly common. Not that all men do it.

      And she was asking men to give their opinions about all of this. And I will have to say that I think your opinion is quite thoughtful, although it would be easy for people to read both Pamela’s post and your comment as meaning “all women” or “all men.”

      What’s interesting to me is seeing how all of our limited experiences create a sense of male or female behavior as being “everyone” of that sex. And how what is described by both of you doesn’t fit my experience. But it must be out there on some level because people are experiencing it.

  6. It seems to me that you are around the wrong type of guys. I wouldn’t even want to be around those types of guys.

  7. I always think it’s kind of odd that when women (well… feminists to be precise) discover something about “men”, their first thought is not to take in knowledge about reality, using it like a scientist to better mold their understanding of reality. No, instead their first thought is to compare reality to their utopia, and assume any differences are due to there being something wrong with men. This is of course couched in the language of shaming. So if men have some sexual fantasy, that is to be interpreted as “seeing women as objects for sexual use”. Never mind that many many women share the exact same fantasies. Nobody, or at least not feminists ever shame women for having the wrong fantasies. No, that’s empowering when women do it.

    Yes, I would say men have what you call a f*ckit list. Here’s another little secret for you. When they are f*cking you, they are not thinking about you. They are thinking about f*cking your neighbour in an orgy with his former school teacher, and some Hollywood star, in some weird bondage scene. Why? 1) because men have good visual imagination and therefore 2) he can, so why not, 3) after he’s done it with you 20+ times, it’s just not that exciting anymore.

    At some point in your relationship your man will become aware that at least some of these fantasies are achievable. And especially if the relationship sex is less than wonderful, then he’ll go and try to fulfill that fantasy. It’s just something he’s compelled to do. After running that scene in his head for the 50th time, he wants to… No he has to.. try it for real. Doesn’t mean he doesn’t love you.

    If at this point you can’t accept it, or even support it, that’s where the relationship dies. For swinging couples it’s no harm done because there was no secrecy. The tighter you want to hold him to stop him fulfilling his list, the more likely you will lose him. Do you want to keep your man in reality or lose him in utopian feminist thinking?

    • What’s interesting to me is that I just approved two comments written by men and that how differently people can see things.

      I’m not sure why you said that when a man is having sex with a woman he is really thinking about other women. I’m sure that does happen, but surely not all the time. And maybe it depends on the whether it is F*ck it sex or bonded sex. The latter is a meeting of souls and more what Pamela is seeking as opposed to disliking the type of sex you describe, and that she describes in this post.

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